Newbie 2036 - Day 2

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Micc
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Post Post #50  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:25 pm

Votecount 1.01Gawr (3) - Tayl0r Swift, Trendall, donkihott
Trendall (2) - hessian, Olivia2020
donkihott (2) - Fredrick A Campbell, Satisfaction
Tayl0r Swift (1) - Gawr
Satisfaction (1) - Marky Mark

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in 5 days, 6 hours, 59 minutes.
Last edited by Micc on Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
3 pre-in slots remain for A Normal Blitz IV.
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Post Post #51  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:32 pm

A fairly minor point of order Micc - I am voting for Satisfaction, not donki

Tayl0r Swift
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Post Post #52  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:21 pm

In post 24, Marky Mark wrote:
In post 22, Trendall wrote:
In post 18, Gawr wrote:Hi.

That vote RVS or no?


We'll find out I guess


This, in particular, is frustrating. I am assuming it was meant in jest, but in a similar vein being coy and not revealing intentions just limits the info we have with which to try and find the scum

disagree. a vote is a vote. that one was fine.

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Post Post #53  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:26 pm

It wasn't the vote I was taking issue with, it was the fact another player had asked Trendall to explain his thought process, and in response Trendall was being elusive.

We've moved on a bit since then tbh but the bottom line is that if another player asks you to explain why you posted a particular thing then it seems fairly reasonable to explain the thought process.

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Post Post #54  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:27 pm

In post 39, donkihott wrote:I'm not very experienced but is there a way to actually get information on D1, since we have no information whatsoever.

yes, you post, see how people interact, and look at what wagons form and how they evolve. thats why its so important that everyone votes and is active. but voting is really the most important thing, and staying on vanity wagons is really not that helpful. if your wagon of choice doesnt take off, compromise and loop back when the gamestate is a bit slower. this helps keep the game moving and means the wagons are easier to analyze. people not voting or staying away from main wagons look like theyre either defending scum or are scum themselves wanting to look innocent and scared to get on wagons that are on town. bit of advice: use your vote as your main voice. justify your movements, but its ok to sheep people sometimes. As both town and scum, dont be afraid to run people up to large wagons and see what happens.

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Post Post #55  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:28 pm

yeah i dont know what happened on most of page 2. those posts were way too long, im not gonna read those. donkihott is prolly town tho.

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Post Post #56  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:38 pm

Okay, it seems I skipped a page and didn't answer appropriately. It might have been a mistake put someone on E-2 that soon, I just didn't thought of what the pace of the game is going to be and how are we going to "extract" information of each other.
My vote had no reason behind it whatsoever it was just a shot in the dark. I am not sure if you would've reacted the same way if I didn't explicitly declared the E-2 (I read it is a good practice to say it.
What I "sensed" in the 2nd page is that 'hessian' seems very sus of me and this makes me sus of him which is not a solid argument at all.

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Post Post #57  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:42 pm

My underlines throughout

In post 54, Tayl0r Swift wrote:
In post 39, donkihott wrote:I'm not very experienced but is there a way to actually get information on D1, since we have no information whatsoever.

yes, you post, see how people interact, and look at what wagons form and how they evolve. thats why its so important that everyone votes and is active. but voting is really the most important thing, and staying on vanity wagons is really not that helpful. if your wagon of choice doesnt take off, compromise and loop back when the gamestate is a bit slower. this helps keep the game moving and means the wagons are easier to analyze. people not voting or staying away from main wagons look like theyre either defending scum or are scum themselves wanting to look innocent and scared to get on wagons that are on town. bit of advice: use your vote as your main voice. justify your movements, but its ok to sheep people sometimes. As both town and scum, dont be afraid to run people up to large wagons and see what happens.

You make the point it is so important that people post and are active...

In post 55, Tayl0r Swift wrote:yeah i dont know what happened on most of page 2. those posts were way too long, im not gonna read those. donkihott is prolly town tho.

...but then you go on to say that you're not going to read the actual content that people have posted (ie on page 2). Just made me smile haha - I guess you don't consider it to be that importanta after all? :P

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Post Post #58  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:43 pm

I am, of course, being slightly facetious here as much of this will be useful to go back over throughout the game to refine our reads on people, but couldn't resist the irony of pointing it out.

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Post Post #59  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:45 pm

In post 55, Tayl0r Swift wrote:yeah i dont know what happened on most of page 2. those posts were way too long, im not gonna read those. donkihott is prolly town tho.


On a moderately more serious note, is it the same reasons I articulated earlier that are making you think donki is town or somehting else?

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Post Post #60  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:53 pm

In post 38, Trendall wrote:
In post 36, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:
In post 37, Marky Mark wrote:use of phrases like 'your funeral' gave me the vibe that you were mildly miffed :P


Sorry, I have a dry sense of humour or something, I am actually finding this game really fun so far.

Ah, okay, I had the same impression as Marky Mark initially.

In post 56, donkihott wrote:Okay, it seems I skipped a page and didn't answer appropriately. It might have been a mistake put someone on E-2 that soon, I just didn't thought of what the pace of the game is going to be and how are we going to "extract" information of each other.
My vote had no reason behind it whatsoever it was just a shot in the dark. I am not sure if you would've reacted the same way if I didn't explicitly declared the E-2 (I read it is a good practice to say it.
What I "sensed" in the 2nd page is that 'hessian' seems very sus of me and this makes me sus of him which is not a solid argument at all.

What I actually said was:
In post 25, hessian wrote:
In post 21, donkihott wrote:I will vote for Gawr cuz she talks too much and I don't want to die on D1 :D

VOTE: Gawr E-2


This strikes me as odd -- it is very early to be putting someone at E-2 within 24 hours of the game start, and the "justification" given is weird.

While I found your vote weird, I was not too suspicious of you, and my actions have reflected that: I worded my post very mildly; I didn't move my vote from RVS onto you; in my next few posts, I engaged with other people on different topics. So the fact that you are reading my single, mildly worded post as me being "very sus" on you... feels like an overreaction, and actually does make me quite suspicious of you now.

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Post Post #61  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:55 pm

Oops, really messed up those quote tags. Here's what I meant to post:

In post 38, Trendall wrote:
In post 36, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:
In post 37, Marky Mark wrote:use of phrases like 'your funeral' gave me the vibe that you were mildly miffed :P


Sorry, I have a dry sense of humour or something, I am actually finding this game really fun so far.

Ah, okay, I had the same impression as Marky Mark initially.

In post 56, donkihott wrote:What I "sensed" in the 2nd page is that 'hessian' seems very sus of me and this makes me sus of him which is not a solid argument at all.

What I actually said was:
In post 25, hessian wrote:
In post 21, donkihott wrote:I will vote for Gawr cuz she talks too much and I don't want to die on D1 :D

VOTE: Gawr E-2


This strikes me as odd -- it is very early to be putting someone at E-2 within 24 hours of the game start, and the "justification" given is weird.

While I found your vote weird, I was not too suspicious of you, and my actions have reflected that: I worded my post very mildly; I didn't move my vote from RVS onto you; in my next few posts, I engaged with other people on different topics. So the fact that you are reading my single, mildly worded post as me being "very sus" on you... feels like an overreaction, and actually does make me quite suspicious of you now.

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Post Post #62  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:59 pm

I'm re-reading now but here are a couple of quick takes.

  1. Early E-2 is nothing. I'm not sure why anybody would clutch their pearls about it apart from creating false drama or fishing for reactions. Criticism of this vote does not smell towny to me and I like that it stands for now.
  2. I understand why people didn't like Trendall's initial reactions, but I absolutely see it coming from a town place before a scum place. Scum!Trendall has little to gain by making himself a controversial figure on page 2.
  3. Your vote is your most powerful tool. Sure, place it on folks you think are scummy. Buuuut you're playing with one hand behind your back if you aren't using it to apply pressure as part of an investigatory process and you aren't being fair to the town if you hold up wagon progress just because you think you've nailed scum all on your own.

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Post Post #63  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:10 pm

Couple of things that stuck out to me before I head to bed

In post 61, hessian wrote:While I found your vote weird, I was not too suspicious of you, and my actions have reflected that: I worded my post very mildly; I didn't move my vote from RVS onto you; in my next few posts, I engaged with other people on different topics. So the fact that you are reading my single, mildly worded post as me being "very sus" on you... feels like an overreaction, and actually does make me quite suspicious of you now.

This is valid to an extent although, interstingly, donki goes on to say that his reasons were "not a solid argument at all" in #56 which kinda undermines the point he has just made, so I'm guessing he meant it more as a train of consciousness type thing than evidence to actually go off?
In post 62, Satisfaction wrote:I'm re-reading now but here are a couple of quick takes.

  1. Early E-2 is nothing. I'm not sure why anybody would clutch their pearls about it apart from creating false drama or fishing for reactions. Criticism of this vote does not smell towny to me and I like that it stands for now.
  2. I understand why people didn't like Trendall's initial reactions, but I absolutely see it coming from a town place before a scum place. Scum!Trendall has little to gain by making himself a controversial figure on page 2.
  3. Your vote is your most powerful tool. Sure, place it on folks you think are scummy. Buuuut you're playing with one hand behind your back if you aren't using it to apply pressure as part of an investigatory process and you aren't being fair to the town if you hold up wagon progress just because you think you've nailed scum all on your own.


Agreed early E-2 is not a big deal, although I can also see how a new player might not know that. Ref Trendall, yeah his first couple of posts seemed obstructive but I guess part of that is just his tone/sense of humour as he then went on to talk through his opinions in probably the most analytical post so far this game.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for bringing some real enterainment to my Saturday; it's been a pleasure. I'll catch up with you all tomorrow :)

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Post Post #64  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:33 pm

In post 30, hessian wrote:You're saying that town would be particularly sad to die on D1, which I accept; but I think that scum would also be particularly sad to die on D1, since then they don't get to engage in any scummy behavior.

I agree with hessian here and would even take it a bit further. Townies are typically dead when they win. That's just kind of our lot in life. There's more reason for scum to adopt a survivalist mindset than for town. There are only two of them. They lose when they die. The town has more chances and some must die to achieve our goals.

All of that being said, I don't like this conversation very much. I prefer to focus on potential motivations and what I'm seeing here from Marky Mark is words without much teeth to them. That could point to a motivation to appear like he is hunting. Townies shouldn't care too much about how they appear.

VOTE: Marky Mark

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Post Post #65  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:41 pm

@Mark's : I felt the same way and it rubs me the wrong way. I am of the opinion that this is just a playstyle mismatch that we're going to have to work around. Diva behavior from Tay likely NAI.

Still, an important call out.

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Post Post #66  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:53 pm

  • hessian is hunting
  • Frederick is lurking
  • Townlean on Trendall
  • Gawr seems eager, but I would have just looked at my post history instead of asking were I in her shoes.

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Post Post #67  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:39 pm

Votecount 1.01 has now been fixed.
3 pre-in slots remain for A Normal Blitz IV.
"To hide a tree, use a forest" -Ninja Boy Hideo

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Post Post #68  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:44 pm

In post 59, Marky Mark wrote:
In post 55, Tayl0r Swift wrote:yeah i dont know what happened on most of page 2. those posts were way too long, im not gonna read those. donkihott is prolly town tho.


On a moderately more serious note, is it the same reasons I articulated earlier that are making you think donki is town or somehting else?

i dont know what those reasons were and im not going to check.

posting is good. but if your post is an essay, im prolly gonna skip it, especially on day 2. i dont plan on ever reading through that entire post. it looks very boring and probably not that helpful at sorting anyone (i read a sentence or two)

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Post Post #69  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:46 pm

marky mark what are your initial reads on people?

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Post Post #70  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:33 am

In post 17, Trendall wrote:Hello everybody

VOTE: Gawr

In post 18, Gawr wrote:
In post 17, Trendall wrote:Hello everybody


Hi.

That vote RVS or no?

Gawr, why did you put in the effort to remove the vote from the quote?

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Post Post #71  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:28 am

In post 62, Satisfaction wrote:
  1. Early E-2 is nothing. I'm not sure why anybody would clutch their pearls about it apart from creating false drama or fishing for reactions. Criticism of this vote does not smell towny to me and I like that it stands for now.
  2. I understand why people didn't like Trendall's initial reactions, but I absolutely see it coming from a town place before a scum place. Scum!Trendall has little to gain by making himself a controversial figure on page 2.

Re: the early E-2, I found it pretty weird, and said that. Then Marky Mark said that he had seen early E-2 before (Post 28), so I accepted that and didn't bring it up again until donkihott felt that I was "very sus" of him.
Re: Trendall, I didn't like his initial reactions because I saw them as discouraging attempts at analysis during RVS, which I see as anti-town behavior. But that's changed in his recent posts.

In post 68, Tayl0r Swift wrote:
In post 59, Marky Mark wrote:
In post 55, Tayl0r Swift wrote:yeah i dont know what happened on most of page 2. those posts were way too long, im not gonna read those. donkihott is prolly town tho.


On a moderately more serious note, is it the same reasons I articulated earlier that are making you think donki is town or somehting else?

i dont know what those reasons were and im not going to check.

Okay, what are your reasons for town-reading donkihott?

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Post Post #72  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:39 am

In post 63, Marky Mark wrote:
In post 61, hessian wrote:While I found your vote weird, I was not too suspicious of you, and my actions have reflected that: I worded my post very mildly; I didn't move my vote from RVS onto you; in my next few posts, I engaged with other people on different topics. So the fact that you are reading my single, mildly worded post as me being "very sus" on you... feels like an overreaction, and actually does make me quite suspicious of you now.

This is valid to an extent although, interstingly, donki goes on to say that his reasons were "not a solid argument at all" in #56 which kinda undermines the point he has just made, so I'm guessing he meant it more as a train of consciousness type thing than evidence to actually go off?

I think you're addressing this part of the quote, which I don't really care about since it feels like an OMGUS:
In post 56, donkihott wrote:What I "sensed" in the 2nd page is that 'hessian' seems very sus of me and this makes me sus of him which is not a solid argument at all.

But what makes me suspicious is this part of the quote:
In post 56, donkihott wrote:What I "sensed" in the 2nd page is that 'hessian' seems very sus of me and this makes me sus of him which is not a solid argument at all.

What matters to me is that in donkihott's mind, my single post means that I'm very suspicious of him. This feels like scum overreacting. VOTE: donkihott

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Post Post #73  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:50 am

I think you are the only one overreacting here.

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Post Post #74  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:53 am

Good afternoon all,

In post 64, Satisfaction wrote:
In post 30, hessian wrote:You're saying that town would be particularly sad to die on D1, which I accept; but I think that scum would also be particularly sad to die on D1, since then they don't get to engage in any scummy behavior.

I agree with hessian here and would even take it a bit further. Townies are typically dead when they win. That's just kind of our lot in life. There's more reason for scum to adopt a survivalist mindset than for town. There are only two of them. They lose when they die. The town has more chances and some must die to achieve our goals.

All of that being said, I don't like this conversation very much. I prefer to focus on potential motivations and what I'm seeing here from Marky Mark is words without much teeth to them. That could point to a motivation to appear like he is hunting. Townies shouldn't care too much about how they appear.

VOTE: Marky Mark

I mean this was page one right, so it was hardly going to be the most insightful analysis of the century, but I was trying to get the ball rolling. I am also trying to get my head around the logic behind you voting me; this seems to be along the lines of "he is trying to be proactive and hunt scum, therefore he must be scum wanting to look like town" which is pretty WIFOM-y when ockham's razor would suggest the much simpler (and correct) answer that I just want to build reads on players and actually find the scum. I wouldn't want to misrep you though, so please let me know if you think I'm being unfair here.

In post 66, Satisfaction wrote:
  • hessian is hunting
  • Frederick is lurking
  • Townlean on Trendall
  • Gawr seems eager, but I would have just looked at my post history instead of asking were I in her shoes.

Now this seems much more on the money - I would even go one step further with Fred; his posts so far have been strongly focused on the mechanics of post formatting and been very lacking in actual substance.


In post 68, Tayl0r Swift wrote:
In post 59, Marky Mark wrote:
In post 55, Tayl0r Swift wrote:yeah i dont know what happened on most of page 2. those posts were way too long, im not gonna read those. donkihott is prolly town tho.


On a moderately more serious note, is it the same reasons I articulated earlier that are making you think donki is town or somehting else?

i dont know what those reasons were and im not going to check.

posting is good. but if your post is an essay, im prolly gonna skip it, especially on day 2. i dont plan on ever reading through that entire post. it looks very boring and probably not that helpful at sorting anyone (i read a sentence or two)

I am all for being a pragmatist, and I would understand if you were replacing into a 10+ page game and didn't have time to read it all, but when we are literally talking about 3 pages then I feel it is reasonable to expect people to engage with the game and take the time to make use of the full body of info available to make the most informed decision possible, especially when our collective success depends on people making good judgement calls.

In post 69, Tayl0r Swift wrote:marky mark what are your initial reads on people?

I am going to go back through things today and come up with a meaningful readslist later today. If I have time, and can work out how to do it, I might even upload a Marky Mark Scumplotter (TM) diagram. Again, as with your above quote, I did enjoy the irony of you saying that you haven't been reading people's analysis because it is long and boring (my apologies :P ) but then asking me for more analysis.

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