Newbie 2055: City Lights [game over!]

[KittyTacky]

Oh hi. I missed the game start.

I'm from Russia by the way so my timezones are weird.

I play lots of Town Of Salem but my experience with forum Mafia is packing. I'll read through this thread and write something up later.

[KittyTacky]

*lacking.

I did read a bunch of games and the wiki though, I know the terms and stuff.

[KittyTacky]

I have an avatar now. I would have put it up anyways even if I wasn't voted; I just was on my phone for a while and didn't have the image I wanted. It's the coat of arms of Zheleznogorsk, a city in Russia. I don't live there but I like how it looks. It's a bear ripping open an atom.

Anyways I'm getting a mild scumread on

flow trap

. Dodging questions is seen as quite scummy where I come from.

FOS: flow trap

Not voting yet because it would put them on L-2/E-2 (2 from being lynched/eliminated). If neither Ydrasse and Vasex are scum

and

I'm wrong, then the two scums could then quickhammer him.

[KittyTacky]

...why did I see that as 2 players? I'm blind.

VOTE: flow trap

[KittyTacky]

Yeah, TBH we have the numbers... for now. As the game goes on we will need to be more careful unless we lynch scum.

In TOS (Town Of Salem), a common practice is VFR, or voting for roles. It involves voting someone up (voting in that game is two-stage, majority vote puts them up to a podium where they can defend themselves and then after that players can vote innocent or guilty, if there are more guilty than innocent votes they get hanged) and then asking them to claim. This helps the town collect info about the roles in the game and weed out fake claims from mafia/coven/NK.

This only really works in games with lots of power roles (in TOS everyone is a power role). In TOS there are often several protective roles to protect important townies who are forced to claim.

Here it's impractical because at most we have one doctor. It's not like we have many other PRs to find anyways. Mostly we would hit vanilla townies, or scum claiming vanilla.

I really need to practice my scumreading.

[KittyTacky]

TOS is a different kind of semi-open in many setups. In Ranked Practice, for example, there is a list of roles like "Town Investigative" (sheriff aka cop, investigator which doesn't have a Mafia equivalent, lookout aka watcher, spy which also doesn't have an equivalent), "Town Killing" (vigilante, veteran aka PGO). So you can fill those slots with claims. There are also Random Town slots.

There's also Classic where all slots besides Town Killing and a single RT are fixed. And All Any which is randomly-generated. It's a mess.

[KittyTacky]

I'm from Russia by the way so my timezones are weird.

That's an unexpectable twist and very interesting. Please tell me did you play on Russian mafia forums? Nickname?

I actually didn't... I said I had next to no experience with forum mafia didn't I?

Dodging questions is seen as quite scummy where I come from.

Last game I had a PR read on something which caused me to dodge questions, please do not proceed with this

Well you soft-claimed PR way back. Mafia is likely to target you anyways since a PR dying is good for them regardless of what it is but your soft-claim provides no info to us. Share with the class.

anyway do you have takes on anyone other than flow trap?

Not really, TBH. Nothing that can be well-articulated.

[KittyTacky]

flow trap wrote:
In post 146, KittyTacky wrote:
Dodging questions is seen as quite scummy where I come from.


Last game I had a PR read on something which caused me to dodge questions, please do not proceed with this

Well you soft-claimed PR way back. Mafia is likely to target you anyways since a PR dying is good for them regardless of what it is but your soft-claim provides no info to us. Share with the class.

This is a strawman

What? My point still stands. You bring no info to town but you bring to mafia all the info they need. You already outed yourself as a PR.

Your lead will die with you if you get nightkilled or hanged because of your stubbornness.

[KittyTacky]

Your lead will die with you if you get nightkilled or hanged because of your stubbornness.

Fakedit: If you even have a lead instead of being a scum trying to get away with a PR claim without saying which one to not be CCed by a real PR.

[KittyTacky]

flow trap wrote:
In post 146, KittyTacky wrote:
Dodging questions is seen as quite scummy where I come from.


Last game I had a PR read on something which caused me to dodge questions, please do not proceed with this

Well you soft-claimed PR way back. Mafia is likely to target you anyways since a PR dying is good for them regardless of what it is but your soft-claim provides no info to us. Share with the class.

This is a strawman

What? My point still stands. You bring no info to town but you bring to mafia all the info they need. You already outed yourself as a PR.

Your lead will die with you if you get nightkilled or hanged because of your stubbornness.

Do you know what a joke is?

There's joking, and then there's misleading town.

It really didn't seem like a joke.

[KittyTacky]

<snip quote pyramid>

Well... sort of does. Sure I could be a scum bussing. Anyone pushing a scumread on someone else could be (unless confirmed town somehow). But you

were

acting legitimately sus.

It's late where I live, I think tomorrow I'll trawl through the thread so far and post my reads on people.

[KittyTacky]

199 I see it unlikely that town!KT assumes flow trap is an incompetent player who would out their own power role upon being asked a non threatening question.

I find 158 very suspicious, KT is trying to extract an actual PR claim after flow's claim. specific line: "but your soft-claim provides no info to us. Share with the class." Obsessing over "this player is PR" over multiple posts also is scummy. However much you think the PR claim implicates a player as PR, you are also helping the Mafia find PRs by continuing to speculate about who is PR.

Use logic. I tried to extract a claim out of him because he soft-claimed already. It's not anti-town because if it's actually true then the mafia already knows he is a PR. But we don't know what kind he is so it provides little info to us.

However his "it was a joke" comment is kind of a soft VT claim. I rest my case. When I get home in a few hours (am in college) I'll publish my reads.

[KittyTacky]

Kitty, what do you think about me?

Leaning town. You're active and are generally contributing to the discussion with meaningful posts.

Oh almost forgot.

UNVOTE: flow trap until I find someone else to vote. Still a mild FOS on them though...

[KittyTacky]

Reads:

• Vasex: slightly town for reasons described above.
  flow trap: slightly scummy due to just generally acting sus, which I articulated before.
  Floo: slightly scummy, due to being rather quiet except to defend flow.
  HUB: somwhat town. I don't know how to explain it.

Everyone else, including TRQ, is null to my relatively unexperienced mind.

[KittyTacky]

I was very busy today, will write something up tomorrow and decide who to vote.

[KittyTacky]

I feel if both flow trap and floo are mafia then floo might be sussing me because I pushed on their buddy.

However:
A) I don't want to "no u" vote.
B) I feel in forum mafia where there is less immediate emotion I doubt scums are impulsive enough to do that.

Thus floo is a null-leaning-slightly-scummy read for me. They're difficult to read but not as much as flow trap. Also Ydrasse is indeed quite aggressive.

I'm somewhat sussing flow myself. Just because flow made a "joke" and then I missed it... doesn't clear us as scumbuddies. I don't know why and can't really explain why but it seems very

odd

to me that flow would say something major like that with no clear evidence.

And as HUB said, flow seemed like they were white-knighting floo. Which is also quite sus.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong, this should be E-1. This is my first forum mafia game too that I didn't flak out of due to IRL reasons. Ughhhh.

VOTE: flow trap

[KittyTacky]

though maybe kittytacky e-1 is fine if kittytacky is just thinking force claim tos style, hammer or move on

Yup this is it. Maybe it's a mindset difference but where I come from... Not claiming when pushed by half the town is extremely sus.

[KittyTacky]

not good enough. nothing in 495 demonstrates intent to force a claim. that post is e-1 with the stated rationale of "somewhat sussing flow trap" but "don't know why and can't really explain why, but it seems very odd"-

though maybe kittytacky e-1 is fine if kittytacky is just thinking force claim tos style, hammer or move on

Yup this is it. Maybe it's a mindset difference but where I come from... Not claiming when pushed by half the town is extremely sus.

but now it's "extremely sus". this is not to mention that you were hesitant to E-2 them earlier. this is also not to mention that their refusal to claim when pushed by half the town (not including your push of their PR earlier) happened *after* your vote

I said I tried to force him to claim before my E-1 so your point is moot.

[KittyTacky]

274 flow's read list looks genuine enough. There are some reads I disagree with, but that will happen with any other readlist, and there is pushing a square peg into a round hole than I'd expect from a scum readlist. It's the first half of D1. If flow trap does not have two scumreads for that reason, we should not force him into making a bad scumread.

Scumleaning Ydrasse at this point. 348 and 524's "work with us" is glib. I have said before why they basically say "go scumread someone else." Someone who has twice as many posts as me doesn't care about any players except flow trap. She has forgotten kittytacky, a former scumread, and her scumread on me is wholly dependent on the flow trap read. The recent response to me was scummy too, attacking my argument as intimidation or whatever as an excuse not to actually respond to my points.

If you asked me for one reason to townread flow trap it would be the existence of the wagon. Considering the poor arguments to vote flow, some of which border on maliciously fallacious, I don't see an alternative to at least one flow trap voter being scum.

Lastly @KittyTacky what do you think about the relationship of these two posts?

Because I'm a PR

I tend to use a lot of hyperbole and/or "jokeclaim" masons day 1.

Hey mason buddy

He later said it was a joke.

However it did not come across as a joke. It came across as more like a scum being caught with their pants down while trying to claim a PR.

And I'm sorry for my hand-wringing, I had no idea it was considered scummy.

[KittyTacky]

*They

Sorry misused a pronoun accidentally.

[KittyTacky]

Like, there is literally a ":P" face

No I meant you refusing to claim later after the fact. Now

that's

sus.

not good enough. nothing in 495 demonstrates intent to force a claim. that post is e-1 with the stated rationale of "somewhat sussing flow trap" but "don't know why and can't really explain why, but it seems very odd"-

though maybe kittytacky e-1 is fine if kittytacky is just thinking force claim tos style, hammer or move on

Yup this is it. Maybe it's a mindset difference but where I come from... Not claiming when pushed by half the town is extremely sus.

but now it's "extremely sus". this is not to mention that you were hesitant to E-2 them earlier. this is also not to mention that their refusal to claim when pushed by half the town (not including your push of their PR earlier) happened *after* your vote

I said I tried to force him to claim before my E-1 so your point is moot.

That wasn't half the town earlier, that was mainly just you.

There was suspicion circling FT even before the mass-vote on them.

[KittyTacky]

How do I do things like... the numbers in quotes that link to the quoted post?

[KittyTacky]

kittytacky these recent posts feel like 'just want flow trap hammered', which flow trap will say happy unbirthday boon is the same but does it really

feel

like happy unbirthday boon is not doing a thing because to me it really

feels

like happy unbirthday boon is doing a thing which makes town the more likely option

I'll stop pushing if they claim because they're being quite sus. Isn't not claiming when asked to at E-1 practically just saying "kill me"?

[KittyTacky]

No I meant you refusing to claim later after the fact. Now that's sus.

Becuase it was a joke

A bad one. Doing all this, waiting this long, only to claim VT? Hmmmmmmmm...

Also what TRQ said. An informed town is much, much better than an uninformed town.

vasex seems like a pseudowagon really, i dont see much serious argument lately about him being scum, flow trap was on the block when their vote went down on him, and TRQ was on intent-to-hammer to FT for a while.

i am still on KT unless the alternative will be no-hang. i do want to hear FP because along with me, she was one of the players who explicitly spoke against hammer

reiterating that KT's e-1 vote post (not the e-1 vote itself, the post surrounding it) is my most serious read of the game so far. i find that one post much more suspicious than flow trap's *gestures vaguely*. the big reason posts like that and the following "sorry i didn't know being wishy-washy was scummy" post stuck out - i think mafia are far more concerned with how their actions look to other players than town.

that combined with the rationale inconsistency and the explanation for the vote not making much sense to me. any of those things in isolation, sure. i dont like those things combined.

Now I'm just curious. Why would townies not care what town thinks of them?

[KittyTacky]

Do you have any other reads on me besides the mistake I made with my E-1?

[KittyTacky]

I'll wait to post a readslist for today until a few more pages have been made (not enough to read yet).

But I'll answer any questions towards me in regards to my play so far
Ask me anything.

[KittyTacky]

Tomorrow I think I'll re-read everything (or most of it) and concretely read on Floo.

Also it's kinda weird how HUB is so active according to that list. While I certainly *noticed* HUB's posts... they didn't seem so many if that makes sense?

[KittyTacky]

Also it's kinda weird how HUB is so active according to that list. While I certainly *noticed* HUB's posts... they didn't seem so many if that makes sense?

So in your understanding FT, TRQ were much more active than HUB?
And you can compare the filling of the posts between FT and HUB for example. Did you miss most of the posts of HUB?
I don't like the way you are shading HUB right now. It looks like you find the position of BM against HUB rather convinient for you now, but there is no strong sense in your reason for doing this.

I actually mild-TR HUB. It was just an observation.

[KittyTacky]

It was just an observation.

In response to your post count.

[KittyTacky]

I was reading floo's posts. That's why I didn't vote him yet. Yes he seems scummy to me now. -_-

VOTE: floo

[KittyTacky]

Floo is scummy to me because they are lurking hard. See Vasex's post count. Only 16 posts in the whole game. That's sus AF if I have to say.

[KittyTacky]

Honestly if you hang me I don't mind that much, gives town more info. But get floo next if I'm hanged today.

[KittyTacky]

Where I come from, fucking around like FT was and then waiting a long time to give a claim is... Practically an instant hang. Okay I admit the E-1 post was badly-written but how am I scummy for pushing on a borderline-trolling player who turned out to be a townie? Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

[KittyTacky]

Yes I may have had muddled reasons but I'm new to forum mafia, this is my first game, you can check.

[KittyTacky]

Floo is scummy to me because they are lurking hard. See Vasex's post count. Only 16 posts in the whole game. That's sus AF if I have to say.

Distorted number because I prefer to post in paragraphs/walls. You and Vasex should consider not just how many posts other players write, but how much info they actually give, and how that info has been helpful.

Most of that was in defense of FT-- who turned out to be an actual townie so that's NAI by itself (might be a scum using a doomed-looking townie to gain cred). But something to think about.

[KittyTacky]

I said I didn't mind that much if I got limmed because while sure it would be ELO, you would have other people to focus on.

Anyways, I'm kind of torn on floo. He is more active now so I give him a bit of towncred now. Still would be better for him to claim as tomorrow is ELO.

[KittyTacky]

*ELO if we mislim

[KittyTacky]

Also if I was scum I'd flail around a whole lot more when pushed.

Making a readlist RN, give me a bit. Maybe later today.

[KittyTacky]

I was AFK. Yes I am VT. Kinda implied it with my earlier post.

[KittyTacky]

Didn't feel the need to claim until now. Now there's suspicion circling me so I coughed it up. Do as you wish.

Kitty, who is most possible mafia with Floo for you?

Hmmmm... it's a bit hard to tell? If I had to guess it would be BM as he defended floo so BM is sus if and only if floo is scum.

[KittyTacky]

I will be going to sleep now. Feel like there's enough info right now to write something up tomorrow if I don't get hung overnight.

[KittyTacky]

Vasex is so sure I'm scum, by the way. Wouldn't it be funny if I turned out to be a townie?

[KittyTacky]

Floo didn't even claim yet, focus on him. Sorry for multiple-posting.

[KittyTacky]

You are not trying to find mafia, Kitty. This is mafia thing.

Except I am. I am pushing on a non-claimer. How is that

not

trying to find mafia?

[KittyTacky]

+1 to mass-claim.

[KittyTacky]

Floo can be a townie for you (you've give him some towncred) and the question about the possible partner of Floo is quite surprising for you. You don't think serious about who can be mafia, do you? Is it not interesting for you? Did you lose your interest to the game? When and why?

I'm not sure maybe I don't want mass claim now

Nice assumptions. Floo

can

be town but he is still leaning scum to me. The hell are you talking about?

The fact I'm not self-hammering here already points to me not being scum.

[KittyTacky]

You are not trying to find mafia, Kitty. This is mafia thing.

Except I am. I am pushing on a non-claimer. How is that

not

trying to find mafia?

like what does the fact Floo hasn't claimed got to do with it? Is it because yesterday somebody got mis-elimmed for not claiming, and you think you can pull off the same thing here? I don't know why you'd use this terminology if you're town.

Maybe it's a culture thing TBH. Where I'm from (TOS and chat mafia) you claim when pushed hard. FT misplayed there, he waited for a while at E-1. I claimed as soon as I noticed I was on E-1.

Readlist:
BM: Town lean. Active, trying hard to find scum. However he'd lose much of that if floo is hanged.

Vasex: Unsure. On one hand he's active and helpful. On the other hand his pushing on me seems like a scum trying to push a mislynch.

HUB: Slight town lean. Can't explain why. Gut feeling. I could be wrong.

TRQ: Null-ish. Just like... Couldn't really get a read from their posts despite them having substance?

FBJim: Town lean. Also gut feeling.

Floo: Scummy because of not claiming when pushed.

IMO it's someone of Vasex, TRQ, Floo, and HUB.

[KittyTacky]

If I one of those hammers me they're likely scum.

Cop, if you exist, check Vasex or Floo.

[KittyTacky]

On a second thought... Move HUB to a bigger townread. He defended me in a way that would be a risky play, almost gamethrowing, if I flipped mafia.

[KittyTacky]

*It

Sorry misused a pronoun again. I'm typing fast.

[KittyTacky]

On a second thought... Move HUB to a bigger townread. He defended me in a way that would be a risky play, almost gamethrowing, if I flipped mafia.

???

??????????????????????????

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i really can't get over this

like

happy unbirthday boon is town because it defended me in a way which would be almost gamethrowing

if i flipped mafia

happy unbirthday boon is town because it's not my mafia partner is something

and how is this possibly a read for town!kittytacky

what would it even mean from a town perspective

I meant that if I was really his scumbuddy then he would be very, very sus if he failed to defend me after trying so hard. Thus, unless there's a bunch of WIFOM involved, this is a townread on me. Or am I wrong?

On a second thought... Move HUB to a bigger townread. He defended me in a way that would be a risky play, almost gamethrowing, if I flipped mafia.

???

??????????????????????????

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i really can't get over this

like

happy unbirthday boon is town because it defended me in a way which would be almost gamethrowing

if i flipped mafia

happy unbirthday boon is town because it's not my mafia partner is something

and how is this possibly a read for town!kittytacky

what would it even mean from a town perspective

you're correct - this is a scumclaim from KittyTacky. Which makes Vasex's unvote very curious.

Explain how it is a scumclaim.

I said to check Floo if he's not hanged today. Then if it's ELO then we know for sure whether he's scum. Isn't it good to check sus-looking people who don't claim so you don't waste a lynch on them?

[KittyTacky]

Of course today it's better to hang floo. The cop check one of the other sus people.

[KittyTacky]

I said to check Floo if he's not hanged today

If you are hanged today, we'll know your role (townie from your POV), so why do you need the check of floo, who is the scummiest player in the game for you? And not only for you. So there is a total waste of the check if the check is "floo = mafia"

I mean... fair enough on a second thought.

[KittyTacky]

Honestly any result will be good tomorrow if we don't hang scum today. Then we know who to hang, or who to trust. I think the cop should come out next (in-game) day with results.

[KittyTacky]

On a second thought... Move HUB to a bigger townread. He defended me in a way that would be a risky play, almost gamethrowing, if I flipped mafia.

???

??????????????????????????

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

i really can't get over this

like

happy unbirthday boon is town because it defended me in a way which would be almost gamethrowing

if i flipped mafia

happy unbirthday boon is town because it's not my mafia partner is something

and how is this possibly a read for town!kittytacky

what would it even mean from a town perspective

I meant that if I was really his scumbuddy then he would be very, very sus if he failed to defend me after trying so hard. Thus, unless there's a bunch of WIFOM involved, this is a townread on me. Or am I wrong?

if you are town, then you already know that happy unbirthday boon is not your mafia partner, and thus there is no reason to townread them for not being your mafia partner...

Of course I know I'm town. However other people might not so surely it would work for them. Why would I need to prove to myself I am town?

[KittyTacky]

I don't think your counterargument makes sense because townreads are meant to prove to other people that you, and/or other people are town.

[KittyTacky]

Yay! I'm sorry for almost ruining the game, it was my first one. I learned several lessons.

[KittyTacky]

If u dont elim me today, you are Minecrafters

My favorite quote from this game.

[KittyTacky]

Can't talk about ongoing games but I'm having fun.

[KittyTacky]

I feel like I almost gamethrew with my "I don't mind being lynched" post... it was a gambit attempt to relieve pressure on me. It didn't work.