Newbie 2061 | Views of Tallinn | Town wins

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Post Post #40 (isolation #0) » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:29 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

Hey everyone! Sorry I'm a little late.
For those who don't know me already, this is my third game after a pretty long (half a year-ish?) break. If anyone wants, I can give my entire playing history for examining. Don't know how much it'll help since there's not a lot there and I took a huge break.
Now that that's done, let's get right into the thoughtful and logical analysis, shall we? :P

So I noticed, if you take marcistar, put the c on top of the r, and drop several other letters, what do you get? maFia. Kind of.

marcistar, how do you respond to this compelling and legitimate evidence?

Also, Norweigianboy, two things- first, is there a shorter name I can use? NB, Nor, NBoy maybe?
I'll check his history for myself in a little bit, but do you have a game you can offer for what you're saying about Not-Mafia's meta? I'd be interested in having a look even if his games are similar.
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Post Post #42 (isolation #1) » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:48 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 41, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Call me Norwee.
Norwee it is :)
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Post Post #52 (isolation #2) » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:58 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 45, catboi wrote:Hello! (*●⁰ꈊ⁰●)ノ

VOTE: pearofclubs

So sad you had to draw mafia on your first game back~ (▰˘︹˘▰)
I'd have to agree, that would've been pretty sad. Glad it's not true, then :P
My first game I was mafia, and the SE player I was supposed to be working with afked out of the game pretty much right away. We lost D2.

I was much happier being green the second time. This time could've gone either way and I'd have been alright, I think. Two games isn't exactly a lot of experience, but it's enough to get the whole "it's just a game" thing going on. Y'know?

Pedit: Woof... welcome to the game, NM? Quite an entrance, lol
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Post Post #62 (isolation #3) » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:14 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 61, marcistar wrote:
In post 57, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Awkward, fake, scummy, keeping up a pretense, poor acting.
ahh, i didn't really get "awkward" vibes from what he's said, it just feels like hes trying to either copy meuhs attitude or get on her good side.. imo
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Post Post #63 (isolation #4) » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:15 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

Erm. I'm sure you can all tell I messed up the formatting there. Not putting words in marci's mouth, that was my thoughts :P
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Post Post #64 (isolation #5) » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:17 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

Wait a minute, I didn't type over Marci's quote, I apparently lost my response? No clue how that happened. Sorry, lol

What I wanted to say was something along these lines-
"Eh, I saw it as being a little awkward, but wrote it off as first-game-nervousness. Don't know if it's actually indicative or not."

Sorry for repeatedly messing up xD
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Post Post #66 (isolation #6) » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:21 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 65, NorwegianboyEE wrote:You're going to jail Pearofclubs.
I deserve it. I'll come quietly.

Also Pear is fine :P
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Post Post #86 (isolation #7) » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:26 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 79, Not_Mafia wrote:Willing to give Sudowoodo the benefit of the doubt for now even though his English seems perfectly good, in3kro's intro is disgustingly opportunistic
I'm inclined to agree, at least about Ink. Not a good first post if your goal is to appear townie :P
As far as Samo is concerned, I believe the language gap, and even if I didn't, it's more than reasonable for a new player to be nervous and that nervousness could easily manifest as awkwardness.

That said, Ink, I do
get
it, someone who could flip either way and isn't being particularly helpful is a better than random elimination on day one.
A worse pick than someone that actually looks
scummy
, but at least if you're wrong you're not going to lose someone who's helping out.
But for all the troll posts and non sequiturs, I don't think he's being entirely unhelpful. He's pointing things out, at least.

So I'm not convinced that he fits that category, at least right now :P
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Post Post #93 (isolation #8) » Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:34 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 91, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Really tired today. Don't have a lot to say. :b
At least nobody else been posting much.
Yeah, this game seems a bit more low key than the ones I had before.
At least I didn't miss much! I was a little worried :P

Here's a random gif, just to give this post
SOMETHING
lol
Image
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Post Post #98 (isolation #9) » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:04 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 97, iN3krO wrote:Hehehe

Seems like that's not how you vote

VOTE: Catboi

There you go pussycat.
Looks like the vote worked just fine both times to me.
Catboi's definitely on the list of people I'd like to see more from.
You're on that list, too- in particular, I'm curious why you're asking Catboi about Tori's train of thought, when Tori didn't say anything about him, and did say something about you.
You had to have noticed him saying something about you. Why didn't you respond?
What do
you
think about Tori's train of thought, VOTE: Ink3ro?

And to give my thoughts on the current situation-

Norwee
has nothing particularly suspect about them. Tori's thoughts are legitimate, and if Norwee kept posting that sort of thing for a long time I might agree, but one RLday in is nothing. We just started, after all.
Meuh
has behaved largely the way she had in her previous towngames, although I haven't seen her scumgame yet (obviously) so I can't put my finger on anything.
Marci
was the subject of one of my wild and stupid day one conspiracy theories, given the suggestion that a wagon against N-M would likely be scum-led. If she's scum, then so is
Not_Mafia
. He's done nothing particularly damning, apart from being fairly trolly, which he's known for- and I've looked at some of his prior play. If he wasn't doing this, I'd be suspicious. Plus, he contributed a little, at least.
Tori
's posting style is the only thing that has caused me any suspicion. Which isn't indicative, and I know that. Gut said there was something there, head says not.
Samawoodo
came off awkward early on but hasn't done anything.
Ink3ro
had a very bad first post. Coming in and suggesting that someone's a good D1 pick when there's no evidence is not a good way to start a game. Coupled with the fact that he hasn't posted much (asking about Tori's thoughts doubled his post count) leaves him looking a little south of neutral.
Catboi
Goodness. A fluff intro post is fine if you stick around and continue to do something. A fluff intro post and then nothing is not a good look. I'd like to see more of Catboi, as things stand they've contributed basically nothing.

Obviously it's the first RL-Day of the first Day, so don't take any of these too seriously. Just getting my thoughts out there :P
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Post Post #124 (isolation #10) » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:29 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 109, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 107, marcistar wrote:NorwegianboyEE (SE) - town How much they contributed at the beginning makes me think hes town trying to help us out as much as possible. I don't really see the helpfulness coming from a scumplayer.
I mean, sure i’ll take that townread.
But i think it’s a bit naive to think that just because an SE is helpful they aren’t scum. :lol:
It is a bit naive, being super helpful is actually entirely NI.
I actually was explicitly suspicious of someone in my last game
because
they were super helpful. I thought it was them trying to steer suspicions away from themselves and appear nice and helpful. Turns out it was just a helpful person.
Shame we lost because of that suspicion, but live and learn, right? :P
Samawoodo wrote:
Spoiler:
First of all

FRIDAAAAAAY
:lol: :lol:

I couldnt play yesterday because work and personal stuff, so apologies.

About my spanish, im not going to rely more about that kind of excuse in the future. I dont want to get this topic dirty. We need clean interactions, not excuses or meta stuff about the players.

But, i have to say thanks to that, there were some reactions worth to mention because, if i were mafia, to take advantage of that and maaaybe join the "push" (because i dont think it was a proper push) would have been the logical play but, not in this kind of game. So, for me, the more townies atm for me are Not_Mafia and Norwegian atm.
I think your english is fine, I wouldn't worry about it. You do come off a little awkward but everyone writes their own way and as long as your tone isn't wildly shifting it's not a reason for people to be suspicious, imo :P
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Post Post #128 (isolation #11) » Fri Apr 09, 2021 6:53 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 100, Meuh wrote: Yeah, I think my past games mean less when you don't have at least one per alignment, all you get to see is VT Meuh, which isn't a super broad scope.
Hopefully I'll get a mafia game one day :wink: :lol:
That's why I have you neutral at the moment!
You're acting more or less how you acted in your towngame
which is exactly how you would act if you were dealt a scumgame this time around.

It'd just be, y'know, fake :P

I'd be interested in seeing Ink's response to this pressure, also.
pedit:
Dunno about Torii, my initial response was suspicion due to their writing style but that's not necessarily anything. What about his play pinged you? The other two I completely get.
I don't think this is an N-M scumgame, but I don't know him as well as you and won't begrudge you being suspicious.
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Post Post #134 (isolation #12) » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:38 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 131, Not_Mafia wrote:inkro + Sudowoodo?
I don't know. Upon rereading a bit I'm really not liking Catboi for .

1. A little too dismissive of Meuh's post.
2. Suggesting that he isn't responding to the thread because it wasn't interesting enough.
3. Suggesting that it was bad timing, he was busy, but now he's not and didn't stick around.
4. He was "typing up a post when (I) posted" but didn't follow that up with anything.
5. He hasn't answered any questions or provided any insight to the thread.

I'm still not happy with Ink, especially since he's been away so long, but I think VOTE: Catboi needs this more.
Since you're so interested in why people townread me, I'd actually like to hear what you think of my slot? Or, y'know, anything you'd want to talk about?
The thread might be more interesting if you were around more! :P
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Post Post #145 (isolation #13) » Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:01 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 142, Samawoodo wrote: Why not?
I could easily be wrong here, but I think Norwee was acting like I was asking Not_Mafia to spend more time in the thread. I don't think he likes N-M very much :P
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Post Post #166 (isolation #14) » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:00 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

I apologize for being away today, had a late night last night and I'm dead tired. I promise I'll read up and be more active tomorrow.
Meuh wrote:
@Not_Mafia:
thoughts on Tori?

@Samawoodo:
thoughts on Catboi?

@Tori:
thoughts on Marci and Sama?

@iN3krO:
thoughts on Sama and Tori?

@NorwegianboyEE:
Could you explain how your read on Sama evolved from to ?

@Marci:
Thoughts on Tori?

@Pearofclubs:
Thoughts on Marci and Sama?

@Catboi:
Thoughts on N_M and Norwee?
Just letting you know I see this and will respond to it once I'm less dead :P
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Post Post #190 (isolation #15) » Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:07 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

I return as promised!
Let's get right into it.
In post 171, catboi wrote:Er, the post I was typing up
was
the one you got. I didn't have anything more to say at the time. Is being disinterested scummy to you?
Being disinterested? No, although you engaging more could have made it more interesting for all involved.
Barely participating? A bit. You made one RVS post and then vanished. That's not good.
You've also been acting fairly defensive, not answering questions, not sharing your thoughts. Not townie behavior.
You can argue semantics about it not being fluff if you like, but you didn't stick around to do anything with any reactions that you might've gotten.
But it's still very early :P
In post 146, Meuh wrote: @Pearofclubs: Thoughts on Marci and Sama?
Hm.
Marci I don't really have any new impression of. She was null* pointedly with an asterisk because of that conspiracy theory. She's been asking questions and doing some work, but at the same time there isn't a post she's done that immediately jumps to mind when I think of her. Which leaves me with the impression that maybe she's been posting a lot without doing a lot? I think I'll reread the thread from the beginning again tonight and see if there's anything that pings me. You too, by the way. I feel like with the amount you two have posted I should have stronger feelings. We'll see after another read :P

Sama is on the lower end of neutral right now. It's admittedly difficult to place him because of the language barrier and the first-game-jitters that I can completely relate to. I guess I'll add him to the list of people I need to completely re-read, lol.
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Post Post #209 (isolation #16) » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:55 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 191, catboi wrote:
Spoiler:
Again, though, you can say me being inactive is
not good
or
unhelpful
, but that doesn't really cross the bridge to be
being scum
, does it? Focusing solely on someone's activity is unfortunately a poor method of finding scum, sometimes there are players who lurk because they have a hard time faking it, but other times people are just naturally disinterested. (granted, my last scumgame offsite, I was miserably frozen and flaked out, but I don't think I'd have that problem here because it's so much slower paced).

I think "defensive" is a term that gets thrown around whenever someone bothers to defend themself, at all, which is a fairly natural thing in a game of mafia. It's an accusation that has very little meaning. Why do you see my not answering qusetions as scummy? It's a very easy thing to comply with the requests of others if I were scum, and that's probably what I'd be doing. But if I feel like I'm getting asked a question that's useless or suspect I'm going to uestion them instead. I can understand your frustration with me not simply plopping down a reads list but most of my thoughts right now are half-formed, I'm still in the process of feeling hings out. In my previous post, I was going to give some townreads then when I went back to reread people, I doubted myself and deleted that part of my post. I don't like making statements that amount to "eh, could go either way, who knows"
Okay, defensive wasn't quite the right term. More like guarded.

Why do I see you not answering questions as scummy?
Because being unwilling to post much makes it seem like you're being careful about what you say and what you don't, like you care about your appearance more than being helpful and progressing the game. Could just be your playstyle, but I won't ignore when something pings me.

Is it 'very easy' to comply when you're scum? I don't know about that. It seems, to me at least, that pretending to make observations and give your feelings on the state of the game would be harder than honestly doing so.

That being said, you're participating, which is really all I wanted out of you in the first place :P
NorwegianboyEE wrote:Sry guys, but Catboi wagon sucks. He’s towntelling in his posts here and we should go somewhere else.
Why are you so sure? What about his play so far has you thinking he's town?
I'm curious, your defense of Catboi hereis pretty sudden, and pretty spirited.
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Post Post #260 (isolation #17) » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:10 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

Sorry!
I'm sorry. Had a busy couple of days and the game slipped my mind every time I could actually play.
I'll get caught up and put in some work today :p
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Post Post #304 (isolation #18) » Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:17 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 303, marcistar wrote:
In post 290, catboi wrote:Are you actually interested in flipping me? How is that supposed to give information on those two?

If you think Meuh is a better vote, that's fine, I've already said I don't oppose it.

Explain what bothered you about that Samawoodo post?
Like, if I had to pick between the wagons you would be the one i'm most interested in. But this was before norwegienboyees vote on meuh.
(I feel like I need to vote within somewhere thats already voted, because not alot of people are budging, and we need info from a flip.)

Well, meuhs buddying you, and samawoodoos buddying her is how I see it.
So I think generally in most cases, scum wouldn't be buddying scum.
so like if ur scum, meuhs not. if ur town, meuhs not. thats what i was originally thinking but when i think more idk :shifty: but i still dont like meuh following after you so easily, I don't see a reason for her to.

so then like to explain about samawoodoo, it just seems like he did that because meuh has those kind of thoughts also. (like meuh said ur more townie... and then samawoodoo says ur more townie..) though he could just see meuh as a really townie town leader I guess..?
it just sort of seems like... not really buddying actually but... having too similar thoughts to her..?
They could also both be town, you know.
Got something coming up once I put words to it properly :P
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Post Post #305 (isolation #19) » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:16 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

I have a theory and I would love to hear people's thoughts on it.

First off, let's address N-M. Although I'm risking telling him how to obfuscate his playstyle a little bit more than he does already, I've been over his metagame and he seems way more self-destructive and spammy as scum than he does as town. Not a guarantee, but I'm fairly sure that he's safe at this moment. I'm sure that I've just now told him how to better ruin any chance of reading him, but in the interest of this game, I will take that risk.

And Catboi. Your response is completely fair. I'd never considered that others might find faking reads easier than providing incomplete ones.

But let's get into the meat of the theory. VOTE: Norwegianboyee.
Back in , Norwee called for N-M to die. You could suggest it was still RVS but at this point Norwee was in fact giving advice to others, in explaining N-M's playstyle as justification for his comment. Marcistar, of course, swung in with a statement of defense for players like N-M, prompting a discussion about how players going after someone like him are likely scum. A discussion which Meuh reacted to, so one can't say that she didn't see it.

With that in mind, why would scum!Meuh choose to go after N-M? A scumplayer should be more careful, especially with something that's been discussed earlier, and Ink's wagon was still in decent enough shape. As things were, I was actually considering switching back over to him, since Catboi had convinced me
enough
of his towniness and Ink was still somewhat questionable. Town!Meuh, on the other hand, might see that things slowing down and agree with the suggestion that our scum team is comfortable with the gamestate. Lacking any other leads, she might default to N-M because, as I've said before, an elim on an unhelpful nullread is better than a random guess. That's a believable train of thought. Of course, seeing such an easy target, especially given the conversation that happened before.

Next, let's address Norwee's early "scumread" on Meuh. It was a rather quick conclusion to come to so early on, still easily during RVS, where people are free to joke around. Could that have been Meuh ineptly trying to plant the idea of Norwee+NM in people's minds? Yes. It
could
have, but I don't know that I put too much faith in that.

Let's address the concept that wagoning N-M is scummy behavior. I agree if we're talking about newer players, or maybe on later days. On day one, an
experienced
scumplayer would LOVE to keep a shitposting randomlol impossible to read player like N-M alive,
especially
given that people attacking N-M so early look scummy. Why? It's really simple. Because N-M isn't going to do ANYTHING to scumhunt OR defend himself later on, and someone that's easy to miselim is more valuable to scum in later days. So I think an experienced scumplayer, especially one who's played directly with N-M in the past, would be more inclined to jump on someone who pushes at N-M as hard as possible, especially given that we're running out of time and the next decent wagon to get off the ground will have a very good chance of success.

And I feel like an inexperienced scum!Meuh would fight being flipped, at all. She seems resigned to it, and that doesn't feel scummy to me.

So there ya go. Interested in hearing what people think.
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Post Post #306 (isolation #20) » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:19 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

Quick bit, because I was moving between my notes and this post and forgot to finish a thought:
This line:
"Of course, seeing such an easy target, especially given the conversation that happened before."
Should have ended with "Norwee took that opportunity" or something to that degree. :P
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Post Post #310 (isolation #21) » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:04 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 307, Meuh wrote: Spicy! Yeah, the bit about going for an unhelpful nullread being better than a random guess is accurate to my mentality here. I'll have to reread Norwee's post history. I think scumreading me at this point is reasonable, but going back over the evolution of Norwee's read would be pretty useful.
There's no reason for scum!Meuh to stir the pot here, like you said. Pushing for N_M and interacting with Catboi the way I have are both things that have definitely not helped out with my longevity in this game.

Also what you said about N_M being a burden down the line is exactly what I was thinking. I'm scared of N_M just being this cloudy hard to read, non contributing slot for the rest of the game, which would suck.

With the state of this day, my mentality was just setting up for a solid day 2, so we can get scum out then, and N_M gone has just seemed like the best way to make that happen.
That's the thing, though- his read on you didn't really evolve.
He mentioned scummy vibes from the joke about him and N-M being the team, and put you down as a scumlean after that, but since then hasn't really mentioned anything that contributes to this, aside from the whole "voting NM is scum" thing that he suggested in his first post. In fact, he actually removed you from his list of suspects in . So this coming back up again feels a bit sudden.
Feel free to reread him, though!
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Post Post #376 (isolation #22) » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:56 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 321, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Needless to say, if i'm actually eliminated here, please put more scrutiny on Pear and In3kro.
I mean, Pear had me as top town earlier.
With regard to my earlier read.
I even mentioned in that very post that it was an early read and they don't mean much, and that was prior to the hypocrisy of attacking Meuh for doing something that you yourself advocated doing earlier. (And not addressing that point doesn't make it go away :P)

Honestly, I'm becoming of the opinion that you mentioned that earlier so that you could have it around as an option if you needed it later, and with Marcistar's response anyone else who goes after N-M could be targeted. If no one goes after N-M before you do, you can suggest it at your leisure since you were in that conversation yourself and you can use that to assuage any suspicions. Scum!Norwee could use this to win either way. You could steer a wagon you don't like towards someone pushing N-M, or a policy elimination on him as a compromise in the event you don't like existing wagons.

After all, as an experienced player in a newbie game, your word carries weight. If you decide a policy elimination on N-M is a good idea, people are more likely to follow than if, say, I did it.

If nothing else, as a player with as much experience as you have, people (including myself) should question whether or not they could really read you,
if you WERE scum.


So I'm keeping my vote
right where it is.
In this moment, I think it's our best shot at hitting scum. And if I'm wrong I welcome the suspicion and scrutiny that that would bring.
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Post Post #378 (isolation #23) » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:21 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 320, catboi wrote: This is all
interesting
but it all feels rather presumptive? Like, you present an example of why this is what scum
could
be doing but I'm not sure it covers the ground to say Norwee is scum
because
he is doing this? That is to say, that his actions make more sense coming from scum than from town. Do you think his vote on Meuh is insincere. I don't agree with his early tonal scumread but I can understand him taking issue with what Meuh was saying in the way he did. It didn't raise a flag for me.
(Just thought of this and figured it warranted a response)
It is rather presumptive. But that's the point, when his vote on Meuh pinged me I got suspicious, and chose to do a full reread up to that point, with the assumption that Norwee was scum, to see whether or not his choices made more sense from that perspective, and they do. After all, we all get thoughts that skew our reads. My initial read was under the impression that Norwee was more likely town at that point.

And the reason it pinged me is the hypocrisy. I remembered that conversation earlier about policy wagons against people like N-M. Norwee advocated it, Marci provided a counterpoint, Meuh responded to the conversation, so if she were scum, she would have known not to push N-M. Let someone else do it and take the heat for it.
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Post Post #382 (isolation #24) » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:45 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

If Not-Mafia's reputation is anything to go by, bringing someone to E-1 results in a hammer.
So you made the right choice not rushing it :P

As a fun aside, the fact that it HASN'T been brought to E-1 is convincing me that Norwee is scum a bit more.
After all, if Norwee was town, why wouldn't scum bring him in range for N-M to finish the job?
There're only two reasons I can think of. Either Norwee is scum, or both scum are already on the wagon.
I recognize that if I'm wrong this is going to make it harder for me to defend myself tomorrow, but food for thought :P
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Post Post #385 (isolation #25) » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:15 pm

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In post 383, Meuh wrote:I mean scum might be holding back cause just bringing someone to E-1 with no precedent, N_M or not, is not the greatest of looks? Or they may just not really be online right now. It hasn't been too long since Catboi's placed his vote.
Until this conversation, one could say that they didn't expect N-M to do it, or that they forgot that he tends to.
That last bit is entirely legitimate, though :P
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Post Post #419 (isolation #26) » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:17 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 409, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Scum!me would give no fucks about derailing an potential N_M wagon unless i was exactly scum with him. And if anyone believes that i’ll listen to it with interest. But otherwise i’ve basically towntold hard in this game.
These are the sorts of comments that make me feel like you're trying to tell less experienced players how they should read your actions.

I've already outlined how an experienced scum player might want to keep N-M alive on day one if they can get a miselim elsewhere.
His style means people are really, really not going to want to have him in the final five, so scum would pick off someone else tonight and he'd make a decently attactive d2 policy elimination, or an easy hammer on someone else.
Samawoodo wrote: I think you are overthinking stuff.

If norwee word carries more weight it would be because he is playing and making reading as a genuine town (at least for me). I didn’t give a fuck about his experience or w/e.

Actually, his behavior in this game have been always following the same line. It’s not like he has suddenly changed opinions about his own readings (unlike others)

Actually, if he flips town, what are you going to do?
1. Well, I think you're underthinking stuff, and I'd rather see too much than too little :P

2. If you can truly not let the fact that Norwee is a more experienced player not taint your read on him, then I applaud you for it. The fact is that he's been giving advice and help out the entire time. Actually, I think the main reason given for the first person who townread him was
that he's being helpful.
This means that people are, at least to some degree, suspecting him less because he's giving gameplay advice and assistance. My last game a very helpful and nice player that I townread early on turned out to be scum. Perspectives get tainted by appreciating things like that.

3. What're you talking about? His behavior has been all over the place.
He started off by suggesting we eliminate N-M because he's unhelpful.
He scumread Meuh for an RVS joke.
He jumped on the Ink wagon and cleared Meuh when people started going for Ink.
He jumped on Meuh when she did something he suggested earlier, because Marci gave him a reason to (which, convienently, would mean it wasn't even his idea if it caused a miselim)
His tone was calm collected and fun at the beginning of the day, but now that he's under pressure he's falling to pieces, to the point of directly insulting his accusers (without actually explaining why, for instance, my post was the dumbest shit he's ever read). He calls people too impulsive and demands people wait when we're a matter of hours away from the day's end, knowing damn well that at this point shifting focus or waiting is going to cause a noelim.

Calling someone else's thoughts stupid isn't an argument, it's what you do when you hate their thoughts and don't have a legitimate response. Like how any discussion of politics on the internet will invariably end up toxic and personal. But that's an aside :P

This is not townie behavior. A miselim day one is better than eliminating no one. You should know that.

4. If he flips green, well... First, I'll be legitimately surprised, second I'll reread the entire thread again, this time from that perspective. Third, I'll continue to try to solve the game, whether I'm dead or not. Fourth, when the game ends (or, if we're both in the dead thread at some point) I will genuinely apologize to him for being wrong.

I'm only human, if I damage town's chances of winning this game because I got too into a theory I will genuinely feel bad for it. That being said, at this moment, everything I've seen is telling me Norwee is the right vote today.
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Post Post #421 (isolation #27) » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:20 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 415, T3 wrote:Let it be known that I strongly object to this wagon and am only hammering because we should avoid a no elim.
VOTE: Norwee/vote]
Wait, was that a hammer?

I mean, broken tags or not, that was a vote at norwee, and he was at E-1.

Pedit: So thats it, then?
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Post Post #424 (isolation #28) » Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:27 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 422, catboi wrote:Sigh. Really unnecessary hammer then. Don't think it's scummy from T3 necessarily, just frustrating given time left. Was clear I still had business going with norwee
A declaration first would've been nice, but I don't know whether or not the hammer itself was scummy.
That said, I'm kinda surprised N-M didn't just show up and kill him.

...I really hope I was right /nerves >.<
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Post Post #441 (isolation #29) » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:07 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

Embarrassed and eating crow here, but there's nothing to do except move on.

I'm not a jailkeeper, either... wondering what that nokill is going to turn out to mean.
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Post Post #450 (isolation #30) » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:48 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 448, Not_Mafia wrote: Except there's no rolefishing cos he's not asking people to claim if they are a jailkeeper, just that they did not jail a scum read, you're experienced enough to know this
Even narrowing that much info down is +scum as they can potentially intuit roles based on people claiming what they
aren't
.[/quote]

No one is claiming their role, you can clearly see the town benefit to this in a newbie, it's disingenuous to say otherwise[/quote]

It's reasonable to be somewhat suspicious of T3 in this moment, I think.
They joined in time to see the Norwee wagon growing strong, distanced themselves from it, and hammered with no warning with time left on the clock while lamenting how regrettable it was.
That said, I'm going to need to do another careful reread before I'm comfortable taking any stance. Doubting myself pretty hard rn.

As an aside, you're putting in more effort here than I would've thought, N-M.

Pedit: Another perfectly reasonable explanation. I'll have to think on it.
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Post Post #480 (isolation #31) » Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:33 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 477, T3 wrote:Meuh and NM ar hard townreads. Meuh is actively contributing, giving reasons and there were quite a few bad votes on NM yesterday.
Pear is town for showing a solvey attitude and willingness to consider others POV while giving valid reasoning.
I am town becuase I am.
catboi is leanscum. It seems to me like all catboi is doing here is justifocations and excuses.
Sama has not soneanything, we wait for the replacement and see.
in3 is leanscum for the reasons outline in Meuh's post.
marci is scum for a general faked tone, questioning jailkeeper results, and fluffing without any real reads.

Sama is not a good vote for today.
I'll contribute more in a little bit, but for now I just wanted to point out that I agree about Sama.

He really wasn't enough of a read before switching out, so we really ought to give their replacement a chance first.
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Post Post #495 (isolation #32) » Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:29 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 493, T3 wrote:New unreadable replacement, same as the old unreadable replacement.
That's a bit quick, wouldn't you agree? He's only posted once.

Welcome to the game, VFP! Happy to have another viewpoint in the thread :P
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Post Post #505 (isolation #33) » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:29 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

To give some response to your comments, VFP.

I'm sorry that you feel I over explain when I'm pushing someone. Is that actually a scumtell? I think I've done it in every mafia game I've ever been in, town or not. A quick glance at my meta ought to confirm that. I don't really know what to tell you, I write how I write :P

As for the Norwee theory. I stand by how I felt in that moment. It's really easy to point out how I'm wrong now that it's over and done with, but at that time I
legitimately believed that his actions made more sense coming from scum
. And the only person to call it out for being shaky at that moment iirc was Norwee. I can't exactly take gameplay advice from someone I think is mafia.

That being said. Let's discuss this bit :
"This is just a full speculation post that is shading Norwegianboyee for things that should be NAI. This is also shortly after NM puts Catboi to E2, Pear just seems to want to jump off."

It's 'shading' because he turned out to be town, and you've convinced yourself I'm scum. I left the Catboi wagon because I was more interested in my theory on Norwee. Isn't that what you're supposed to do? My interest in Cat was flimsy at that point anyway, the only real reason I was going after him was to get him to start talking more. Up until I started suspecting Norwee, Ink was my main scumread and he was at E-2. I didn't want to put him at E-1 with N-M around just because I wasn't happy with where I was.

The 'empty posts' you complain about seemed pretty common from everyone here day one. It was very slow. Maybe you had to be here for it. I don't know, people did comment on it quite a few times.

I'm less convinced than Catboi that this is a townie read, you seem to be stretching the truth in a lot of places to support it. I don't remember who you replaced, but I'm definitely going to have to go back through the thread and look your slot over again. With two people in there, there ought to be some clues if you're
less than townie.


I'll post some more tomorrow, after another read :P
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Post Post #516 (isolation #34) » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:21 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 506, VFP wrote:
Spoiler:
@Pear
what's your reads now on Catboi, marcistar, and iN3krO?

You haven't pushed anyone in this day, and even T3 you seem to be sitting on before casting a vote.
Your argument above does nothing for me.
"Sorry I over explain"
"The push would have looked good if I got scum"
"Everyone had empty posts day 1"
"I want to OMGUS you here but I'm scared to"

Let me confirm, Pear is only ever over explaining posts when there's pressure to be judged on the side. And if you read their scum game there's a lot of simular posting from there to here.
I'll go through this when I'm at my PC later.
1. Yes, if you read my scumgame you'll find that I similarly overexplain when I make a post I feel is important. That's what I said, except you're convienently leaving out that I did the same thing in my towngame. That was my point. If it's something I do all the time, is it a scumread? I don't really think that's the case.
2. Um, yes. It would've looked good if Norwee had flipped red...? The way you're saying it it seems like you're mocking me for having that mentality, but that isn't even what I said. This is the sort of thing that's making me wonder whether you're on the level or not. I don't feel like town would push half-truths and intentional misinterpretations so hard.
3. Everyone did have a lot of empty posts day one...? You're acting like it's a silly thing to say, but it's true. If everyone's doing something in a game, you can't single someone out and say it's AI for them.
4. It's not OMGUS because in spite of your questionable behavior while scumhunting, I don't actually think you're scum as of right now. I didn't SR Sama, and that's affecting my opinion of your slot. After all, if I want to call you mafia, I have to be able to justify what I've seen out of Sama as a mafia player. Maybe another read'll change that but as of now I think you're okay.

I'll answer your questions, but I just want to put it out there that I'm fully aware you're asking it less for my actual insight and more to get ideas about who my partner is, because you've
totally caught me.
:P

Marcistar- If Marci is mafia then likely N-M is also. She defended him from the notion of a policy vote early on, and town!marci might do that, but scum!marci would be pretty unlikely to unless N-M is her partner. As for her own work, I stand by my prior assessment that I can't really remember much that she's done, despite at this moment she has 48 posts, which is the fourth most in the thread. I take notes on other players when something pings me (although I'll fully admit this past week I've been pretty busy/lazy about this game) and I don't really have all that much about her. I'd somewhat forgotten she was playing. That's bad.

Catboi- Upon glancing back over Cat's meta I'm fairly sure he's town at this point. I didn't like his lack of posting at the beginning of the game but he really opened up and started putting in some work. He questioned my theory when it started catching on, he wanted to slow things down and get as much information out of Norwee as possible at the end of the day. I like the push on marci at this moment. As mentioned above, it makes sense, it's just not something I ever noticed. She flew beneath my radar.

I think Marci's a good place to look today. VOTE: Marcistar
It really isn't helping that she's not around now.
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Post Post #541 (isolation #35) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:56 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

Whoops. Time really got away from me there.
I've been really low energy lately, I'd say it's because I just got my shot but it's been happening before that, too.
...Actually, my focus usually gets bad day 2. I'll have to work on that if I want to keep playing. It's not fair to you guys.
I'll make an effort to participate between now and the deadline, if I'm still alive tomorrow I'll decide whether or not I should finish this game. Don't feel like it would be fair for me to swap out this close to the end of the day.
Anyway. I'll get caught up and post something of some substance :P
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Post Post #542 (isolation #36) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 6:59 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 533, VFP wrote: Marci scum makes NM town
What makes you say that? Curious, since I've had it the opposite for quite a while.
I feel like the unprovoked defense of N-M coupled with a case for pushing anyone who attacks him would make zero sense from scum!marci unless N-M was her partner.
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Post Post #543 (isolation #37) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:14 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 522, marcistar wrote: Ask me things then...? I don't check the thread often anymore since i've been a bit busy with classes and such lately, but i'll still see it.. I can reply to whatever you ask :P
Believe me I understand not being around, I totally spaced out and ended up getting prodded for it :P

What're your reads as of right now? It'll be good to have the information around, should you end up flipping green today- and even if you don't get elimmed, it'll be good to have your thoughts on the books before the days end.
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Post Post #557 (isolation #38) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:01 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 551, T3 wrote: Where did marci defennd nm?
Linked below. Norwee had proposed the notion that getting rid of N-M wouldn't be a bad idea since he's hard to read and tends to troll more than actually play (That being said, he's actually been contributing quite a bit...).

Is he getting meta with his trolling? When people start believing that he's just going to troll all game he starts contributing?
That'd be masterful :P
In post 30, marcistar wrote:
In post 27, NorwegianboyEE wrote:He is a troll. Confusing. Hammers wagons on E-1. Doesn’t explain his positions.
Lynchbait as town, obvscum as mafia. Destructive force of villainy.
Etc.
ahhh, so you hate him?

i kinda find his playstyle funny (tho its hard for me to make a decision on him, and others who play similar like that, i think.) I think if people who play in jestery playstyles like his get vote killed it's more likely to be a scum motivated wagon, tho idk how i would think about wagons on these types of players if they were scum. :dead:
so i find players like him useful if theyre townies :lol:

does it make sense..?
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Post Post #571 (isolation #39) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:39 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

Meuh wrote:
In post 564, VFP wrote:
In post 562, Meuh wrote:A singular line linking to a singular post with no further explanation is honestly not something I think you should expect people to remember really? Tbh I forgot you even made that explanation in the first place, I think it's a stretch to imply Pear "isn't reading the game" for this.
Well, this makes it seems that you didn't read my posts either.
is where I'm talking about.
oops :lol: i need to spend more time rereading posts cause sometimes i really just don't absorb the information
it's like when you read a page of a book and afterwards you're like "what did i even just read?" and can barely explain it :cry:
To be fair, he wasn't exactly pointing you towards a lot of information. He was referring to this two line statement on the bottom of his read on me:
In post 501, VFP wrote: NorwegianboyEE's wagon is never an all town wagon here.
So at least that rules out NM / marcistar.
To be fair, I actually completely spaced out on that argument. It's an interesting theory, but it's not bulletproof.
Here comes some data! :P

The deadline for Day One Elim was 04/18 at 6:00 AM.
I posted that theory and my vote on Norwee at 04/15 at 4:16 PM.
That's two days, 13 hours, 44 minutes.
In that time, we have 6 posts from Marci, the last one being on 04/16 at 5:42 PM.
And 3 from N-M, between 3:52 - 54 PM on 04/16.
When both of them posted last, Norwee had two votes. It was before the wagon actually gained traction, and then they disappeared from the thread until day 2, brought on by T3's early hammer.

Not-Mafia was in fact active in other threads, though. viewtopic.php?p=12711307#p12711307 shows him posting on the 17th at 12:53 PM, an hour prior to the hammer. You're not telling me he didn't poke his head into a thread that's so close to the end of a day. (and I'm reading N-M like he's a normal player, because
he's been participating.
)

So, to recap real quick-
They both vanished from the thread before the wagon got any steam going. Maybe they just weren't around, maybe they were lurking. It's certainly possible they saw the wagon building and decided to let it happen. We didn't have anything better day one, so it might have passed from that heady combination of "it's our best shot" and "we don't want a noelim". There's no guarantee that it wasn't all town.

I wouldn't rule out that scumteam.
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Post Post #573 (isolation #40) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:57 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 560, Not_Mafia wrote:And you think day 2 when we stopped the kill n1 is time for a deep wolf push
This is an interesting statement. "We stopped the kill N1. "
Is that actually what happened?
Might've been a No-Kill Gambit.
Don't kill anyone, see if power roles out themselves, fakeclaim if you need to on the defense.
Then we come across this-
In post 549, marcistar wrote: How many votes am I at..? I'll claim if I need to, but i'm not sure if I need to now.. or if i should wait a bit longer..?
So clearly if marci's scum, claiming is on her mind, but
In post 452, marcistar wrote:
In post 439, T3 wrote:If we do have the jailkeeper we have a mafia.
I remember last game I played, jailkeep was used as a healer instead of trying to rb scum? So jailkeep wouldn't be sure about their info..?

anyways im not jailkeep :P
This kinda limits her ability to claim, unless she's planning on saying she said this to divert attention.
pedit: I haven't read your post yet, Lukewarm. I'll get on that right now :P
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Post Post #576 (isolation #41) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:06 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 574, Lukewarm wrote:I think I may have just caught a scum making a slip during my read through!

I would like everyone to compare PearfoClubs posts and post . I think you might find some harsh inconsistencies.
In post 124, Pearofclubs wrote:I actually was explicitly suspicious of someone in my last game because they were super helpful. I thought it was them trying to steer suspicions away from themselves and appear nice and helpful. Turns out it was just a helpful person.
Shame we lost because of that suspicion, but live and learn, right?
Basically, he claims, that in his last game, he scum read someone for being helpful, but they were actually
town
, and therefore lost the game.

In post 419, Pearofclubs wrote:This means that people are, at least to some degree, suspecting him less because he's giving gameplay advice and assistance. My last game a very helpful and nice player that I townread early on turned out to be scum. Perspectives get tainted by appreciating things like that
Basically, he claims, that in his last game, he townread someone for being helpful, but they were actually
scum
, and therefore lost the game.


Hopefully, everyone sees the discrepancy here. So it seems to me, like he was making up a story to try and get people to agree with his push at the time, and did not realize that he had already made up the exact opposite story. This reeks of scum trying to manipulate town.

I would very much like to go ahead and drop a vote here on Pear, but I am going to get fully caught up before I cast any votes. I am going to step a way for a bit to take a break, but I will be caught up before I go to bed tonight!
To put names to the people you're talking about, I was suspicious of Word because he was publicly helpful to everyone early on- in particular, telling people how to scumhunt. I suspected he was scum for that reason.
Notscience was nice and encouraging to me specifically, and I ended up liking him more than I should have. I missed scumtells that were obvious in retrospect.
The last three players were myself, Word and Notscience.
Here's the thread.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83818&start=1600
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Post Post #577 (isolation #42) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:10 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

It occurs to me that you might not be entirely done yet, I'll let you finish :P
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Post Post #582 (isolation #43) » Sun Apr 25, 2021 4:14 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 580, Lukewarm wrote:Hmm, I will take this into consideration as I continue to build my final reads, but to be up front with you, I am not a player who is interested in reading through other games. If someone can't convince me in thread, then they are missing the entire purpose of this game imo. So noted, your explanation is that you were referencing two different players from the same game.
That's fair, and i don't expect you to fish through other threads, but I figured I would straighten that out.
It hadn't even occurred to me that I'd mentioned both this game so there was initially some confusion :P
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Post Post #671 (isolation #44) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:18 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 666, Lukewarm wrote: Oh, you right. I was trying to keep up with the people who could still CC not_mafia, so I had already checked off Marci.
Somehow missed that Pear had not chimed in. My bad
Yeah, sorry sorry. Busy this morning, first time I'm really getting the opportunity to post.
It seems like a lot has happened here.
Being honest, at the moment I actually do believe N-M, I was a good target for a nightkill at that point, and given that he's been playing the game better than his reputation had me expecting, that made me a good target for a doc. And if I'm to believe N-M, that means Marci must be telling the truth, also. Nobody's claiming against them, right?
The two people who were suspicious of me today were people who swapped in after my misguided crusade against Norwee. (In all honesty, it makes sense that I was suspect. My case was flimsy, based more on assumptions of intent painting Norwee's actions. I stand by it being the best that I could do at the time, although I do feel bad about being wrong.)
Everyone in the game at the time that the NK was put in townread me, so it would've been preferable to not have me around. Easier to push suspicion elsewhere.

Catboi's slip is fairly damning, but I'm not sure how VFP is suspect at the moment?
I'll do some thinking and post again in a little bit. But I wanted to give people my thoughts and let'cha know I'm catching up.
I might not be very good at this but I'll try :P
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Post Post #726 (isolation #45) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:42 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 721, marcistar wrote:i wanna do that, but if i do that before posting my big post ive been writing will it all go to waste?
I'd like to hear what Marci wants to say, first.
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Post Post #737 (isolation #46) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:05 am

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I agree, marci. I doubt that both scum would've been involved in pushing me D2.
If one did, they could figure out who the PR is, and it's less likely for them both to get caught.
And it's not unreasonable for a new swap in to suspect me, but if that was the game plan for D2, then it's more likely Catboi/VFP.

VFP swapped in over Sama, who didn't post anything D2.
Luke swapped in over Ink3ro, who DID post D2, was generally townread, and DIDN'T understand the push on me:
In post 512, iN3krO wrote:I'll try to read marcistar and pears isos by tonight so I can try and understand the push on them.

It kinda surprises me that VFP has T3 as a strong town read, I'm mostly aprehensive by T3 playstyle. The way he hastly wrote VFP off as an unreadable player rubbed me the wrong way.
So if that was the plan for D2, I have to look at VFP who pushed me from the get-go day 2. Ink3ro flat out didn't understand the scumread on me.
It's VFP/Catboi, methinks.
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Post Post #738 (isolation #47) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:07 am

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Also worth noting, at this point scum might elect to not kill tonight, in order to throw off our attempts to use marci to pseudo-rolecop.
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Post Post #745 (isolation #48) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:13 am

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In post 740, VFP wrote:
In post 738, Pearofclubs wrote:Also worth noting, at this point scum might elect to not kill tonight, in order to throw off our attempts to use marci to pseudo-rolecop.
Should have kept this for tomorrow.
But no, NM is always killed tonight.
Maybe I should've waited until tomorrow.
But your advice isn't exactly the most trustworthy in this situation, and I'd prefer everyone know all the options ahead of time. Gives us more time to think on every angle tonight.
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Post Post #746 (isolation #49) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:14 am

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In post 743, Meuh wrote: Only scumteams that could consider that as a viable option are Meuhx? teams but that's not what we're dealing with
You would say that :P

But I think you're being honest.
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Post Post #749 (isolation #50) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:18 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

For now, a votecount would be good.
I'm convinced enough, I'll hammer VFP if need be, but no reason not to let the clock wind down a bit more first.
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Post Post #752 (isolation #51) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:25 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 751, marcistar wrote:if we vibing, wheres the alien twerk meuh smh smh!!
Spoiler:
how do we even send gifs :dead: :dead:
Use the image button, put the url of the image in between the tags :P

Image
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Post Post #776 (isolation #52) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:07 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 765, Not_Mafia wrote:
In post 763, Lukewarm wrote:Okay. This is my stance, because I don't know that I have been as clear as I could have been.

When I compared catboi and vfp, I am much more suspicious of catboi.

I feel like people some people have read my earlier post as saying "I think Meuh is scum" but that is not what I was trying to say.
My suspicions on Meuh and T3 are completely dependent on catboi flipping scum, because those are the two players I could see partnered with him. I do not have strong scum reads on either of them, but a flip on catboi would move them into the spot light for a hunt for his partner. If we don't flip catboi today, then I don't actually have a strong reason to be suspicious of either until that does actually happen.

My vote today has been for the person I am most suspicious of overall, and that is catboi. But it is starting to look like we are voting out VFP anyways. So looking towards how I can productively spend Night 2 after a VFP flip, I'm curious: if he flips green, who is everyone looking towards for tomorrow, and if he flips red, who you guys think he could be partnered with. (I know people are going to say me, but who else, because looking into VFPxMe interactions is not how I am going to spend my Night 2 if he flips red, I'll leave that to you guys.)
Major VFP-Lukewarm partner vibes here
I don't know...
How did Ink's behavior work as a potential partner for VFP?
If their goal was "one person pushes pear to find a doc/get a miselim", Lukewarm's behavior doesn't fit that goal.
If their goal was "we both push pear to find a doc/get a miselim", Ink3ro's behavior doesn't fit that goal.
It's certainly possible the plan changed a bit when Ink swapped out, but I find it hard to believe considering that the push on me had so little traction.

It's certainly worth looking into over the night, though. How did Sama/VFP - Ink/Luke and Catboi interact with each other? There's a lot of information to be found what with the replacements.
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Post Post #778 (isolation #53) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:57 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

Just realized I'm still on Marci. UNVOTE:
So I just did my own votecounting, feel free to double check but:

Catboi:
3 (VFP, T3, Lukewarm)
Lukewarm:
2 (Catboi, Not-Mafia)
VFP:
1 (marcistar)
Not Voting
2 (Meuh, Pearofclubs)

So we're really not actually that close to a hammer (A proper votecount would be appreciated)

I'm fine with going for Catboi today, I've already put forward that I'm thinking it's Catboi/VFP.

Just wanted everyone to know where we stand.
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Post Post #780 (isolation #54) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:26 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 779, Not_Mafia wrote:catboi is actually trying to solve, VFP and Lukewarm are just trying to move the elimination away from themselves
When you've narrowed it down to 3 players, 2 of whom are scum, isn't trying to solve the same thing as moving suspicion away from yourself? All three of them seem somewhat resigned to being eliminated.

What in particular makes you like Catboi here?
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Post Post #806 (isolation #55) » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:58 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

Yeah.
I did declare intent before, anyways, didn't I?
I'm off to bed after this, so... VOTE: VFP

Just don't want to wake up to a noelim, y'know?
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Post Post #841 (isolation #56) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:43 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

Well, I'm glad everyone's on the same page as me.
I'd typed up a whole thing on T3 after getting suspicious of him overnight.

I'll still share it when I get back to my computer later, obviously, but for now I'm wondering about T3.

Well. I'll share it provided Catboi doesn't make it completely redundant, lol
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Post Post #851 (isolation #57) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:01 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 850, marcistar wrote:are you giving up t3 :cry: :cry: please dont give up
Could be giving up, could be caught scum trying to appear self sacrificing as a last ditch attempt to look townie.
Either way, I'll have my notes on T3 transferred to a more readable format soon.
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Post Post #853 (isolation #58) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:45 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

So here we are, Day 3. To recap on what's changed...
Meuh
is officially in the clear. The notion that a Rolecop would not use their ability night one is absurd.
I am officially no longer 100% clear. Still mostly, as it makes sense that VFP would push me in order to figure out the identity of our PR by seeing who defends me or claims as a result.
And we are left at this point with three main suspects: Catboi, Tori/T3, and Ink3ro/Lukewarm.

We've been all over Luke and Catboi already, but there were some troubling behaviors on T3's part that have stuck out in my mind, so I spent the night poring over his background. Let me share what I've found...

First of all, Tori. While it's not within T3's control, we have to take his predecessor into account. Torii posted only eight times on day one, and managed to look inconsistant, very nervous, and sorta scummy in those eight posts. He gave reads with no explanation whatsoever and changed his opinions frequently. .

T3's main contribution day one was to come into the game after Norwee's wagon had begun, and immediately distance himself from it without giving any real reason why. His reads shifted on Meuh . He opposed the Norwee wagon but then hammered him in the middle of a discussion between him and Catboi.

Day 2 begins with him trying to narrow down the PR's. Catboi called him out on it, but N-M rebuked that
while lying about not being jailkeep.


He went from defending me, to voting for me to "Flashwagon Pear" without much explanation.

Then there's his interactions with Sama/VFP. He defends him and is defended by him . As soon as VFP became the main target of the day, he pushed to eliminate him ASAP, calling it an automatic win. . In fact, he encouraged an elimination before Marci finished her post! [723]post[/post]

Further, he was a big proponent of the idea that there were three potential scum slots, with VFP backing up that claim . He excluded himself from the potential scum every time he discussed it. I think he liked the idea that people were fixating on "VFP, and either Catboi or Luke.". VFP's support for this in his language supports them as a scumteam, by narrowing our vision and making sure that we only talk about those three, and only think about those three, helps VFP/T3 win by leaving us in an either/or situation today after getting rid of VFP when we should be looking at three slots.

So that's my case on T3 :P
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Post Post #858 (isolation #59) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:24 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 854, T3 wrote:Cool. Then vote me.
VFP when he was about to get limmed said to lim catboi tomorrow no matter what. Because he would then flip scum that would clear catboi. But the problem is heknows he will be limmed. So why would he say that? Unless he is trying to clear his partner.
Looking to end every day early is not good townie behavior. Maybe you think this'll persuade people to not elim you today? Being all self-sacrificing? Or, sure, maybe you are town. At this moment I think you're a better shot than the other two.

Regardless, that argument is a tall glass of Very Berry WIFOM™, since maybe he did that for the reason you're saying, or maybe he did it
in the hopes that people would think that it was misdirection
, and thus incorrectly suspect Catboi. Either solution is just as easily the case. So it's not helpful.
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Post Post #859 (isolation #60) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:30 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

Also, for what it's worth, Catboi defused VFP's push on me as soon as he made it.
I don't feel like that would be a good angle for scum trying to suss out power roles using pressure on me.

I mean, I personally think Luke is likely town. If you flipped green tonight I'd probably be looking in Catboi's direction.
But mainly I think that VFP was
perfectly happy acting like there was nothing left to solve, and the pool was only him catboi and luke.


It's play to win, after all. The three of them getting all the attention is enticing if you're the last scum standing.
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Post Post #861 (isolation #61) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:03 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 860, Meuh wrote: I mean yeah ending day early isn't townie behaviour, but not really scummy either. Can't really fault T3 for that. I have no issue with ending this day early, we wouldn't be missing out on much. We're on a 3 person POE and most people just seem to be swinging the same way.
Yoooo we should just endlessly argue about WIFOM :lol: that sounds very productive :D
Actually, I think in this context trying to throw in the towel does manage to appear scummy.
Think about it. We're actually in a precarious situation.
Today there are six of us, one scum. We miselim someone right now, marci dies... four of us remaining. That's MeLo, and the only thing we'll have gained is that T3 wasn't the right choice.
Sure, I'm confident in T3 being red, but what if he's not?
Continuing discussion in this situation is townie. We want as much data to sift through tomorrow as possible.
Limiting information makes it harder for us to make a confident choice.

That being said, I would love to argue endlessly about WIFOM. I could go for a nice red today :P
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Post Post #871 (isolation #62) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:00 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 863, Meuh wrote: oh also Marci might not die cause rber means she's not getting results ever anyways :cry:
That's a good point, I hadn't thought of it that way.
Might still be her, since you, me and her are the three most comfortably townread.
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Post Post #873 (isolation #63) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:11 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 872, catboi wrote:Anyway, I'm okay with voting T3 if people want to move forward. I would be greatly annoyed if N_M didn't jail Lukewarm when they were his scumread. Does anyone have anything they want to do?
That would be a very traditionally N-M thing to do, wouldn't it?
This game he's been putting a good bit of effort in :P

Hrm. Just out of curiousity, if he jailed the roleblocker, and the roleblocker blocked him, what happens in that scenario? Obviously that didn't happen.
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Post Post #875 (isolation #64) » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:30 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 870, marcistar wrote:
In post 868, T3 wrote:No way a scum Lukewarm says: I'm not too sure about this vote and then hammers a partner.
how are you so sure hes town? from what you've been saying it seems like it.. but theres nothing clearing him so far..? :?
things like you've been mentioning can seem either or tbh.
-
he could've easily wanted to not vote him, but then get told to... so im confused why ur so confident :P
As Catboi pointed out the thing exonerating Luke more or less is that N-M said he scumread him yesterday instead of Catboi.
Given that if N-M misses he's almost certainly dead, it would make the most sense for him to target
someone we'd expect him to
, so that if he misses we'll have a chance at guessing what he did...
And if N-M jailed Lukewarm, and you were the one he roleblocked, that means Lukewarm didn't kill anyone, he was jailkept.

...I'll check back here tomorrow. If everyone's ready to move on I won't hold us all hostage.
I'll hammer T3 if it ends up being up to me.
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Post Post #885 (isolation #65) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:15 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 877, Lukewarm wrote: I think the only other thing we could do before we pass the vote is for Meuh, Pear, and Marci to all voice their opinion on me vs catboi tomorrow, just in case the vote on T3 does not end the game. In that scenario, which ever one of you do die overnight will have left something to help Day 4
I doubt I will be the one to die tonight if we're wrong, but I'll still give my two cents.
I am the least cleared, still- mostly circumstantially.
And marci, geez... you're far from useless! Your tracking night one is why we have a pool of three and not four. You're doing work, don't doubt yourself!

That being said I'm leaning towards Catboi. N-M seemed confident in the towniness of that slot and I can't imagine him Jailing Catboi last night. Most likely it was Luke, especially given that N-M was speculating that the team was Luke/VFP.

That being said, it's hard for me to say that it's definitely Catboi if it isn't T3 today. After all, Catboi's been fairly solvy and there's always the possibility that T3 was the one jailed last night, I think it's unlikely, but N-M
did
acknowledge that he was also an option.

I've been going over N-M's last posts for a while now looking for crumbs but can't find any. Although I did think up some fun ways to hide things while I was thinking of where they might be! So not a total loss. :P

Anyway... If T3 isn't the right choice tonight, and I'm not around, talk it out and come to the best conclusion you can. I believe in you guys :)

Are we ready?
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Post Post #889 (isolation #66) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:13 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

In post 888, Lukewarm wrote: Okay, fingers crossed we just win
+1
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Post Post #894 (isolation #67) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:18 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

marcistar wrote:
In post 892, Meuh wrote:
+2 :eek:
are we doing a counting game now?
+3 :oops:
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Post Post #895 (isolation #68) » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:19 pm

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( We were seconding Lukewarms sentiment that he hopes this wins the game for us :P )
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Post Post #1110 (isolation #69) » Fri May 07, 2021 6:34 pm

Post by Pearofclubs »

Well played everyone!
That had some serious twists and turns, didn't it?
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Post Post #1155 (isolation #70) » Sat May 08, 2021 11:31 am

Post by Pearofclubs »

You played very well Marci. :D
I've definitely learned something from playing with you this game, because the setup we were in seemed rock solid.
I have to question things more!
And give fewer potentially misleading anecdotes @luke :p
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