Newbie 2067 - Pizza! - End!

[cyrus62]

it could be hockey with his constant push of me i don't know if the read has developed or if it's a lazy push

I mean tbh my read on u hasnt developed much but my read on others have developed and I TR them(ppl such as Luke,Azeru and maybe Zyla/Pav?(although these are null rn))

i call bs. on this.

[cyrus62]

lol

i sweer the scum is in hascal , hockey or luke.

[cyrus62]

we anit going to be able to lynch hockey either way. luke refuses to push him . hockey wont vote him self and i dont see pav or azul making the push. hascals largely mia.

[cyrus62]

Strange seems to easy like scum want it badly.

[cyrus62]

but hockey seems to give strange no town credit but wont vote there.

[cyrus62]

Fenrir are you willing to take a drive for town?

[cyrus62]

VOTE: hockeyfan

now watch no one will put him to l1 let alone hammer him.

[cyrus62]

@mod who is not voting

[cyrus62]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

can you tell me why save the dragons is sucmyer then hockey or why you town read hockey or why you prefer your vote on std , to hockey?

[cyrus62]

haha i stole page top.

[cyrus62]

@mod who is not voting

Luke and HC

funny huh.

[cyrus62]

and if lukewarm is scum hockey is with them.

we anit going to be able to lynch hockey either way. luke refuses to push him . hockey wont vote him self and i dont see pav or azul making the push. hascals largely mia.

VOTE: hockeyfan

now watch no one will put him to l1 let alone hammer him.

I really don't like this angle. Like, I have stated that I was thinking that Hockey was town. So obviously, I have been pushing on the people I have been more suspicious of. What, do you think that I should vote for my town reads?

I am reading this, and I don't know how to take it other then you pressuring me to vote my town reads. If you think I should be voting for hockey, convince me that he is scummy. Or address the reasons I think he is town. Don't just put this out there, because it feels like I am just being pressured to vote him to prove that we are not the scum team, but like that is a shitty reason to vote someone. If anything, this approach from you makes me want to dig my heels in on my town read, just because I don't want to move just because of the way you are pressuring it.

And to be clear, the "no one will hammer" line is nonsense. Why do are you so eager to have a hammer right now? If we get closer to the deadline, maybe THEN I will be willing to compromise and vote against my reads because getting any elimination is better then letting the day end without an elimination - but why should I vote against my reads now, with plenty of time left?

you see this right here is why im sus. you call each other null untill askd why you wont vote them . then they become town. i sweer if it it is hockey or lukewarm who is scum and we dont lynch one . i will not play another game with you lot.

[cyrus62]

you see this right here is why im sus. you call each other null untill askd why you wont vote them . then they become town. i sweer if it it is hockey or lukewarm who is scum and we dont lynch one . i will not play another game with you lot.

And this right here is why I find it hard to follow your pushes. It seems like every time you say anything about me or the things I have said or done, it is wrong. When did I have him as null? He has explicitly been a town read of mine for a while.

And if you keep finding me scummy for things that you are misremembering, it makes it harder for me to trust your other scum reads :/

orher. i only have two.

[cyrus62]

you see this right here is why im sus. you call each other null untill askd why you wont vote them . then they become town. i sweer if it it is hockey or lukewarm who is scum and we dont lynch one . i will not play another game with you lot.

And this right here is why I find it hard to follow your pushes. It seems like every time you say anything about me or the things I have said or done, it is wrong. When did I have him as null? He has explicitly been a town read of mine for a while.

And if you keep finding me scummy for things that you are misremembering, it makes it harder for me to trust your other scum reads :/

i onoly have two scum reads

[cyrus62]

this is what luke saids now. but here is what hockey said.

[cyrus62]

Sigh I really dont know where to go with this game lol. Like my reads are kinda stale at this point and I dont think they're changing anytime but when luke/cyrus are the only ones posting(both of them are null OR slight town for me), i cant really progress my reads

funny.

[cyrus62]

@hockey if std flips town then what?

[cyrus62]

this is what luke saids now. but here is what hockey said.

Are you saying that you are going to compare what I said now compared to what Hockey said before, in order to prove that I am changing my reads to fit the situation?

Shouldn't you compare me to me?

more interested in showing why i think there is a distance play. here.

[cyrus62]

as i said im doa. the longer the day goes the longer i can help. because im dead either way.

[cyrus62]

Do you really think that the best play for me to make here is to just follow your vote?

show me why i should vote strange over hockey? @ hockey show me why i should vote std over lukewarm . show me why you two are town. you may not be willing to work with me. but i'll work with you if you show me why i should trust you.

[cyrus62]

i mean it could also be haschel who hasn't really posted much

Lack of activity should be looked at as a whole to really say that. This answer still feels very thrown out there, pulling an implication that they are possible lurking scum. Also, you've been pushing getting haschel into talking more, but then have them on a scum lean. I there's only one part of that, which makes sense. Getting them to talk more gives more opportunity to read them right now, but not what is considered a scum lean.

this is bad strange. every one has the right to have scum leans. most people who have played here long enough believe lurkers are scum. so are you voting him for voting hascal to get more info?

[cyrus62]

this is what luke saids now. but here is what hockey said.

Are you saying that you are going to compare what I said now compared to what Hockey said before, in order to prove that I am changing my reads to fit the situation?

Shouldn't you compare me to me?

more interested in showing why i think there is a distance play. here.

Yes. The classic "distance" play of town reading each other

yes why on earth would scum town read each other. look i said show me why i should follow you.

[cyrus62]

In case people are interested in seeing what I look for when I am looking for partner interactions, this is it.

Scum don't say that their partner is a town read. Scum don't step in to defend their partner.

Scum say, "yeah, my partner is scummy, but this other person is scummier, lets get them first"

not all scum do that read my 6 scum games

[cyrus62]

In case people are interested in seeing what I look for when I am looking for partner interactions, this is it.

Scum don't say that their partner is a town read. Scum don't step in to defend their partner.

Scum say, "yeah, my partner is scummy, but this other person is scummier, lets get them first"

not all scum do that read my 6 scum games

i hurt some one by busing once wont do it again. i do have a heart.

[cyrus62]

This game has become super lame. If I was scum. I would take out either luke or HockeyFan no one can form reads and even now it comes back to like page 3. Oh I think Luke is tvt with haschel. This who thing is lamest . I'm surprised no one sees it. But its right there over and over. Yes both luke and HockeyFan are scum. And they will not move to lynch any one. A a no lynch is better than a .mislynch at least we don't lose town but if you lot let these 2 keep running things . We will lose 2 town by day2

[cyrus62]

as i stated strange doesnt give me scum vibes so im not voting them.

[cyrus62]

VOTE: savethedragonsbut i will do this making the wagons tie so random between these two die. unless some one adds another vote.

[cyrus62]

oh wait if its a tie no one dies okay i like my vote more now.

[cyrus62]

so im anti town because i would rather us not lynch then to lynch town ok.

[cyrus62]

lynch me if it helps.

[cyrus62]

a pice and that wasnt game related.

[cyrus62]

regardless my vote blocks strange from dieing at end of day if you guys cant decide

[cyrus62]

at this point if we elim a scum im tracking hockey tonight

[cyrus62]

VOTE: StrangeMatter that is e1

[cyrus62]

Cyrus, you've said that you think Luke and HF are scum, but your vote is on STD right now. Can you explain where your thought process is on these players?

When we talk like lukewarm and I were or when save the Dragons and haschel were. HockeyFan comes along and gos oh I read them as tvt randomly HockeyFan hasn't advanced the game at all and I can't get a read for the life of me on lukewarm. But they keep defending each other so sadly I can't separate them from each other.

[cyrus62]

Mod stole pagetop again.

[cyrus62]

now town is working together im happy Will help more

[cyrus62]

UNVOTE: StrangeMatter

[cyrus62]

Wow I'm super jealous no one has ever helped me as much as StrangeMatter is getting.

[cyrus62]

Just throwing this out there to help town. StrangeMatter is at e2 and std is at e3 if this remains even if there's no hammer StrangeMatter still dies

[cyrus62]

No who ever has the most votes is majority. As of now the majority is StrangeMatter

[cyrus62]

there are 3 on stange two on std so StrangeMatter has the majority would be StrangeMatter

[cyrus62]

So you need a hammer. Wow back in 2019 who ever had the most died

[cyrus62]

any way I dislike a StrangeMatter elim

[cyrus62]

there are two players them and it being thire 1st game if they are town they deserve to win. VOTE: No elimination

[cyrus62]

happy I voted

[cyrus62]

if you want StrangeMatter you and HockeyFan would put them over the 5 votes
When they flip town you can't blame me

[cyrus62]

VOTE: Lukewarm also i just don't know if StrangeMatter is scum or not. I remember my first game i made alot of mistakes i didn't know how to vote every one thought i was scum pretending not knowing how to play. I was elim 2nd day but had caught both scum on the 1st day. But the pr who was also new didn't know that they went no where ment i was innocent. So sorry if I'm being overly nice.

[cyrus62]

as i said time running out fast you better make your decision quick. note lukewarm gets upset i wont hammer but doesn't seem to want to.

[cyrus62]

intent to hammer

[cyrus62]

strange matter your role please i'll give you all 30 mins

[cyrus62]

stop voting strange. if any one has a pr besides me feel free to hammer if not unvote now

[cyrus62]

do not clime strange that was enough of a crumb

[cyrus62]

im pretty sure scum following would think the same i said 30 mins

[cyrus62]

in this setup it . friendly doc or jk. no one else is cc'ing so i wont hammer

[cyrus62]

friendly is just as useless as tt and doc would die before me any way so would jk.

[cyrus62]

im going count this game as a wash

[cyrus62]

VOTE: strange matter thats a hammer town lost.

[cyrus62]

no deaths well thanks doc who ever you are. lukewarm went no where last night

[cyrus62]

ok based on the fact that no one died, we could have possible 4 greens if doc didnt save cyrus but doc dont out if u did save cyrus, pretty sure luke is also green, no? games looking pretty good?

No death is a good sign but let's not get carried away. Lack of death doesn't necessarily indicate a doctor. (Although I would admit it seems overwhelmingly likely.)

could be jail keep? or scum wanted us to fight about it we should do this day slowly.

[cyrus62]

JK could have got lucky and hit mafia. Or could have locked up Cyrus to protect him and Cyrus is lying about his check. But the most likely play is the most obvious, Cyrus made himself a target and doc saved him.

In only one of those situations would it make sense for a PR to reveal so I don't want to spend a lot of brain on it right now.

1st part yes . jail keep didnt touch me other wise i would have had no result. i got lukewarm went no where this doent clear him however. as maybe jk lock luckwarm up.

[cyrus62]

no deaths well thanks doc who ever you are. lukewarm went no where last night

To clarify:
Did you get "No action"? Or "No result"?

my action went though it said lukewarm went no where

[cyrus62]

no result would me i was blocked or locked up.

[cyrus62]

wont rush lest we out the remaining pr.

[cyrus62]

Why are u guys voting so early into the day

good queston. heres another good one i dont know if jail keep locked up scum and i tracked them if i would get no result or my action would still go though since i wasn't blocked.

[cyrus62]

hmmm this is odd so now i think jail keeper locked up the roleblocker.

[cyrus62]

hmmm this is odd so now i think jail keeper locked up the roleblocker.

That is a possibility. If we have a jailkeeper, and they think they targeted the nightkill target, the point is moot, but if we have a jailkeeper, who was targeting a scum read, they should act as if they just got a cop guilty, and push their target.

this is true. . it could just be a doc though.

[cyrus62]

JK could have got lucky and hit mafia. Or could have locked up Cyrus to protect him and Cyrus is lying about his check. But the most likely play is the most obvious, Cyrus made himself a target and doc saved him.

In only one of those situations would it make sense for a PR to reveal so I don't want to spend a lot of brain on it right now.

Pav's second part of "I dont want to spend a lot of brain on it right now" summarizes my feelings on this convo rn

im not lieing so turns out if jail keep locked up scum then my action would still go though.

[cyrus62]

no deaths well thanks doc who ever you are. lukewarm went no where last night

To clarify:
Did you get "No action"? Or "No result"?

my action went though it said lukewarm went no where

Awesome, just wanted to make sure since that almost messed the town up in my last game that I played

no result would me i was blocked or locked up.

Yes, that is why I asked

hmmm this is odd so now i think jail keeper locked up the roleblocker.

It's a possibility, but why specifically this over the doctor saving you?

its wishful thinking. the doc would mean a rolecop for scum the jailkeeper with my result going though would mean the roleblocker got found. like i said wishful thinking. or hoping . a rolecop would mean scum can check and kill limiting are chances at wining.

[cyrus62]

strange matter your role please i'll give you all 30 mins

i said this and got

[cyrus62]

@Strange, how do you pressure people? I think you accuse me of not pressuring people, but i feel like you're leaving your vote on people without following up much.

Pressure to me is more like you have to force them into making a move, that's interpreted as something normal to have been said. Right now, there's almost nothing on you in particular. And right now, I just don't have much other reason to be on this, besides having reads and voting considering being enough for pressure.

What makes you think 69 and 76 contradict each other? And, don't you do other things instead of voting for pressure?

this and

[cyrus62]

do not clime strange that was enough of a crumb

No, I don't like this at all. You're implying that Strange isn't claiming/shouldn't claim because you think they have a PR, right? You just announced that to the whole game. If we're all under the assumption that Strange is a PR anyways, why not let them claim?

this . so i kepth my word i waited longer then 30 mins

[cyrus62]

First of all, why should I even reveal my role right now. That's a last resort, and right now I'm not going to give scum anything just to survive. Plus, you'll know my role after I'm dead, so go ahead.

see and we were not going no where i had stated where i would have rather go.

[cyrus62]

im going count this game as a wash

VOTE: strange matter thats a hammer town lost.

Also. Cyrus, what the heck? You think that they're a PR and yet you hammer

2 days before deadline

rather than even

suggesting

someone else? That isn't pro-town behavior man.

wont rush lest we out the remaining pr.

And then you say "let's not rush the day"? Why the change?

Honestly I'm still not sure if I believe your PR claim, and this is why

i change where i need it to help town.

[cyrus62]

Starting to think it is just a doc since no one's coming forward which means we have to get today right. Because that means we have a rolecop which means if town don't get it right today we will surely lose.

[cyrus62]

i like azeru for town i liked his commentary at the end of the day towards cyrus. i like his questioning. i wish he would talk more.

i like luke for town. he's wrong about me. i wish he'd stop talking to cyrus altogether but trying to reason with him seems town to me. i think he's asking good questions.

pav has some iioa posts like his vote tracker but has kept some of his thoughts close to the vest here. of the three i find him the scummiest. I wish he would talk a little more as well, he could be lurky scum unsure of what to say.

it could be something like {Haschel, Hockeyfan} but i'm going to try VOTE: Pavowski for now

yes the hammer was wrong yet the game kepth going back to strange i disliked no one trying im not so sure about haschel or hockey anymore i wont be sure untill i know what happen last night.

[cyrus62]

I'd like to consider something at this point. And before I even bring it up, I want to make it very very clear:

I AM NOT ACTIVELY ADVOCATING FOR THIS.

Do not

make any claims based on this post alone, I just would like to get everybody's opinion on the thought.

Would a mass claim be potentially useful for us? Here's my thought process: Cyrus has claimed Tracker. I don't know if I entirely believe it, and I think that some other people are in that boat with me if I'm not mistaken. If Cyrus is town, there would be absolutely no reason whatsoever for him to lie and claim Tracker (although he's done other things with no explanation, so I'm taking this with a grain of salt, though I'm humoring it to be true for the purposes of this post). So for situation one, let's pretend that that Cyrus is town.

1) Cyrus is Tracker, mafia can trust this. So like I said at the end of day 1, there is a chance that mafia already knows the setup and what the other PR is. They don't yet know

who

the other PR is, so a mass claim would out that to mafia. On the flipside, if Cyrus really is Tracker, I wouldn't expect any counterclaims on the second PR, so we could get town the information of what setup we're in, and have two confirmed towns in our PRs. In the case that mafia does decide to counterclaim, we have a 50/50 that was can then look over, and at least one mafia that we can take down for sure.

2) Cyrus is mafia, lying about being Tracker, and nobody's counterclaimed yet out of fear of the 50/50, or fear of giving up to mafia that they're a PR. In this situation though, mafia do not know the setup or possible power roles. Although nobody getting night killed has implications, because mafia just choosing not to kill is... questionable. In any case, mass claiming in this situation gets us a counterclaim against Cyrus to have the 50/50 outing him, and again, will give the information of what setup we're in, and have confirmed town in PR once the 50/50 is sorted out.

My other thought behind this is that the past couple of pages feel like there's some mild PR hunting anyways, so why not lean into it and put everything on the table?

I am asking this as a genuine question to more experienced players than myself. Is anything in these scenarios wrong? Am I missing any other major downsides? In my head right now, it feels like the worst case scenario is that we end up with two confirmed towns, and major insight into our most confusing player. Mafia then know who is who, but if Cyrus is Tracker, they've got half of it figured out anyways. Town gets a narrowed down scumlist.

Do the pros outweigh the cons? Is the whole idea banking too much on Cyrus' Tracker claim? If I'm a dumbass please tell me so.

i dont like it but i will say we vote 8 alive lets put it like this type yes mass or no mass in a singer post alone . reason why i think it is bad is not for me . we had no kill last night becuse doc saved me . or jail keep locked up scum.

[cyrus62]

cyrus 62 votes no mass

[cyrus62]

to finish scum will aim at the other pr so they can take us down faster.

[cyrus62]

yea I think this is good? At worst we get 1 extra confirmed town on top of cyrus and Luke(Im going under the principle that Luke is green checked(correct me if im wrong) and at best we get 4 green IF the doc saved someone either than cyrus(very unlikely)

I would just like to know why exactly you think Luke is confirmed town.

913

Even if we're assuming that there were no deaths because of a Doctor save, this doesn't mean much. There are two mafia, and either one could be the one to do their night kill. Luke going nowhere doesn't mean he's not mafia. All this means is that he wasn't the one that sent the night kill action.

i akd the mod and was told if the scum got jailed then my result would still go though . but it would say they went no where still.

[cyrus62]

Me not going anywhere does not full clear me.

There are two possibilities where I could be scum, and have not moved.

Obviously, if Cyrus's claim is not true, then I am not cleared at all lol

The other possibility, is that my hypothetical scum partner multitasked - which is possible, but not likely I don't think? It seems like a dangerous move, if they know we have a tracker - the scum PR would be the only person in the game that the tracker could see visit two different player in the same night. So imo, it is most likely that both scum moved/tried to move during the night. The scum PR to use their ability, and the goon to do the NK - But again, that is not guaranteed.

in that case they would have blocked me or roled cop so scum would either have been jailed or are a step ahead.

[cyrus62]

The other possibility, is that my hypothetical scum partner multitasked - which is possible, but not likely I don't think? It seems like a dangerous move, if they know we have a tracker - the scum PR would be the only person in the game that the tracker could see visit two different player in the same night. So imo, it is most likely that both scum moved/tried to move during the night. The scum PR to use their ability, and the goon to do the NK - But again, that is not guaranteed.

Thinking more about this, I think they are more likely to have a rolecop then a role blocker. If they had a RB, then wouldn't the scum team both block and NK cyrus to cover their bases incase he got saved?

i coverd this is they were jailed kepth then the roclblock got blocked but no jk is comeing foward.

[cyrus62]

fyi im going be mia for a bit so if you guys want my thoughts on anything put @cyrus on it tooth pain sucks.

[cyrus62]

Why does this game feel like a stand still 3 se's and only one posting ok guys if std and haschel don't start posting more i will move off of HockeyFan and lukewarm and add pressure to them

[cyrus62]

I think I am getting a bit more comfortable with my solve of STD + [Pav or HC].

I am liking all of You, Hockey, and Azeru for town. And then I think that if anyone could have counter claimed Cyrus by now, they would have, so unless that happens I think I am just going to keep Cyrus in a "town despite
all signs otherwise" bin

I would rather you not least you die tonight due to you doing that
If it came down to us two and one scum. If they don't think you would vote me over them they will kill you.

[cyrus62]

I trust lw a re bit more.

[cyrus62]

But haschel said he give big reads after he got to l1 and never did so we shifted to StrangeMatter

[cyrus62]

Ok I have 1point to make to completely convince town that I am tt so it's easier to find scum. I have never ever fakeclaim as scum or town.

[cyrus62]

i can't spam the thread too busy chasing cephrir's parents off of my property or spending time outside the game to hang out with friends on my weekends so i'm sorry i'm not posting

Could you at least give some reads or let us know your poe at this point of time. I understand life issues. But as se's we owe it to the new guys to solve.

[cyrus62]

So we agree on Hockeyfan..

[cyrus62]

Pav pings me as town. Can you show me how you read him as scum.

[cyrus62]

I want to say lukewarm is town but he is so tangeld up with HockeyFan i can't till.

[cyrus62]

and hc is null
T0 me I could see the rest as town.

[cyrus62]

Lol

[cyrus62]

ok hockey who do you agree with or disagree with now that std zyla luke and pav have given reads.

[cyrus62]

I also gave my reads hc hasn't posted much so why don't you think he's scummy

[cyrus62]

well yes that Hammer was wrong. But I think everyone was pushing StrangeMatter at somepoimt yesterday but I guess I should say sorry StrangeMatter
Now I was doing some thinking
What if scum did no kill and received a letter from friendly neighbor. Scum wouldn't admit it and that would confirm one scum.

[cyrus62]

7 days 48 hours between Prods means he just has to post once every 45 hours ,= 4 times on day 2
So it's scummy not to post makes it hard to form reads

[cyrus62]

My worries are hc could be the missing piece to the puzzle.

[cyrus62]

page top haha@mod

[cyrus62]

Look lukewarm and hc are off the table for me today and I think pav is town so try again.

[cyrus62]

7 days 48 hours between Prods means he just has to post once every 45 hours ,= 4 times on day 2
So it's scummy not to post makes it hard to form reads

My worries are hc could be the missing piece to the puzzle.

Look lukewarm and hc are off the table for me today and I think pav is town so try again.

*sigh*

I'm actually trying to give hc some leeway due to his rl issue i lost my grandfather in 2010 and my grandmother 2019 so I feel bad.

[cyrus62]

I will say this i know lukewarm isn't a pr other wise my result would have been different.

[cyrus62]

lukewarm how many games does this make for you?

[cyrus62]

ok i cant seem to be able to put stuff from my old game here i wanted you guys to look at my play there and then to look at lukes play here

[cyrus62]

in cross roads i acted so upset that town put a pr to e1 but i wasn't upset . i even went off and said dont pr hunt . why did i act this way i was trying to be super townie . so what i am saying hc is off the table till at least tomorrow but if you guys are sus of lukewamrs play go ahead and vote.

[cyrus62]

i think pav is town .

[cyrus62]

Alright, fuck it. I've been trying to parse this out and figure out if 1) I could weasel more information out of it first,

Or 2) this is even a good idea to out myself.

But I've come to the conclusion that I'm hurting town and leaving y'all in the dark by keeping it to myself. Gotta say it at some point so now it is.

I am a Jailkeeper. I did not jail Cyrus. I jailed Luke.

This tells me a couple of things. Luke not saying anything about being roleblocked is telling me that he does not want to the rest of us to know that there are any roleblockers in the game, he's trying to sell that we have a Doctor and not a 2 RB setup. The other half of this that I think adds to it even more is the fact that nobody else has said anything about being roleblocked either. Unless somebody else wants to come forward, what this means is Luke either multitasked (reminder that he was the first and only one to bring up mafia multitasking in 998), or mafia didn't roleblock at all in an effort to keep town thinking we had a different setup. In mafia eyes, they shouldn't even have to roleblock Cyrus because if jailor saves him, he gets roleblocked anyways. He insinuates otherwise in 1001, and it doesn't make sense. There's definitely reason to kill or roleblock him, but it's completely superfluous to do both.

Other posts of his that I would like to point out are:

936. Considering he knows he was jailed, he knows the setup, this feels like a threat to the jailkeeper in a "come and try me" kind of way. But then in 938 he goes back to implying that there's just a doctor anyways, and no roleblockers.

999 is when he responds to my point about mass claiming. This is a perfectly reasonable response, but I think coming from a player that simply has a shit ton more information than the rest is a scary prospect. To me this feels like he's already figured out the jailor and just wants to push it another night to kill the power role before mass claim happens.

1002 he turns away from talking about mechanics and brings it back to our regularly scheduled programming, which again, is perfectly reasonable. But again we need to remember that he has more information than the rest of us. And I also feel like Luke isn't the kind of player to completely gloss over something like this. He's been very in-depth, very thorough, very particular all game, and this is the one thing that he quickly pushed through. He quickly insinuates "yeah I guess that there could be a jailor (he knows there is) but that's not important let's get back to business."

Now, is there a possibility that Luke is town and my power saved him? Of course there is. That's just the nature of the role. But that doesn't explain why he's deliberately trying to convince the rest of us that that's not the case.

The case in which Luke is town requires mafia to target Luke as well, and what would be the motive for that? Well, iirc most of us in day 1 were at least town leaning on Luke, and he has been a big asset in progressing the game forward, so it's understandable that mafia would see him as a threat. The issue that I have with this is that Cyrus apparently didn't even get roleblocked. It doesn't make sense to me that they would leave a known* power role open entirely, not targeting or roleblocking.

I might have more thoughts on the matter, but I'm currently going in circles about it, so I need to take a break and come back to it later with fresh eyes once everyone else has had a chance to comment.

All I know right now is that I can't sit here and watch you guys say "Luke is safe, Luke is town, Luke is off the table for today" when I know that something is going on with him.

VOTE: Lukewarm

you do realize if this is true then you blocked him in which case you helped town a lot by revealing this. i am sorry for being a jerk but yes that is the missing piece to the puzzle. as i said i asked the mod and was told that if scum was jail kept my action would still say he went no where. VOTE: lukewarm ps thank you you could have kepth it to your self

[cyrus62]

fyi before we hammer we need a game plane for tonight. we have a chance to 1# catch the last scum or at least have another confirm town. and this also means hc is fair game.

[cyrus62]

and there's the 2nd scum i knew it.

[cyrus62]

as i said luke wasn't saved why would scum target lukewarm over me. two their was no role block last night because they got locked up. 3 no deaths because scum was locked up . we know their is a role blocker so why wouldn't scum block me. 4 i warned town last night that i would most likely be blocked. 5 lukewarm was the one to say we should wait for day2 to short me hence he was going block me.

[cyrus62]

queston to town should we vote hockey or luke off.

[cyrus62]

as said who ever hammers before intent or before i can tell the jail keeper my plan is scum.

[cyrus62]

UNVOTE: just in case

[cyrus62]

azeru lock up hc if you or i die hc is town if no one does hc is scum i will target std . and this will either catch scum or give us 2 more town.

[cyrus62]

you guys realize this is basically a guilty on lukewarm. there is a role blocker. why wouldn't i be role blocked?

[cyrus62]

Alright, fuck it. I've been trying to parse this out and figure out if 1) I could weasel more information out of it first,

Or 2) this is even a good idea to out myself.

But I've come to the conclusion that I'm hurting town and leaving y'all in the dark by keeping it to myself. Gotta say it at some point so now it is.

I am a Jailkeeper. I did not jail Cyrus. I jailed Luke.

This tells me a couple of things. Luke not saying anything about being roleblocked is telling me that he does not want to the rest of us to know that there are any roleblockers in the game, he's trying to sell that we have a Doctor and not a 2 RB setup. The other half of this that I think adds to it even more is the fact that nobody else has said anything about being roleblocked either. Unless somebody else wants to come forward, what this means is Luke either multitasked (reminder that he was the first and only one to bring up mafia multitasking in 998), or mafia didn't roleblock at all in an effort to keep town thinking we had a different setup. In mafia eyes, they shouldn't even have to roleblock Cyrus because if jailor saves him, he gets roleblocked anyways. He insinuates otherwise in 1001, and it doesn't make sense. There's definitely reason to kill or roleblock him, but it's completely superfluous to do both.

Other posts of his that I would like to point out are:

936. Considering he knows he was jailed, he knows the setup, this feels like a threat to the jailkeeper in a "come and try me" kind of way. But then in 938 he goes back to implying that there's just a doctor anyways, and no roleblockers.

999 is when he responds to my point about mass claiming. This is a perfectly reasonable response, but I think coming from a player that simply has a shit ton more information than the rest is a scary prospect. To me this feels like he's already figured out the jailor and just wants to push it another night to kill the power role before mass claim happens.

1002 he turns away from talking about mechanics and brings it back to our regularly scheduled programming, which again, is perfectly reasonable. But again we need to remember that he has more information than the rest of us. And I also feel like Luke isn't the kind of player to completely gloss over something like this. He's been very in-depth, very thorough, very particular all game, and this is the one thing that he quickly pushed through. He quickly insinuates "yeah I guess that there could be a jailor (he knows there is) but that's not important let's get back to business."

Now, is there a possibility that Luke is town and my power saved him? Of course there is. That's just the nature of the role. But that doesn't explain why he's deliberately trying to convince the rest of us that that's not the case.

The case in which Luke is town requires mafia to target Luke as well, and what would be the motive for that? Well, iirc most of us in day 1 were at least town leaning on Luke, and he has been a big asset in progressing the game forward, so it's understandable that mafia would see him as a threat. The issue that I have with this is that Cyrus apparently didn't even get roleblocked. It doesn't make sense to me that they would leave a known* power role open entirely, not targeting or roleblocking.

I might have more thoughts on the matter, but I'm currently going in circles about it, so I need to take a break and come back to it later with fresh eyes once everyone else has had a chance to comment.

All I know right now is that I can't sit here and watch you guys say "Luke is safe, Luke is town, Luke is off the table for today" when I know that something is going on with him.

VOTE: Lukewarm

I'm sitting here trying to parse out all the implications of this. There have been zero blocks claimed, which is why I was assuming doctor. If you're a JK, that means there's a Mafia Roleblocker. If Luke is that roleblocker, would that mean his block was blocked?

If Luke were not the RB, surely one of us might have been blocked instead.... unless the RB chose not to block? And does a vanilla know they've been blocked?

Looking at it from the other side. If Luke is *not* mafia, and we trust Azeru's claim here (spoiler: I do), then why the heck was there no kill last night?

Could this be a gambit? If we elim Luke and he's town, Az is the elim tomorrow. It can't be worth it to trade 1 for 1.

Am I missing something? Is there a possible way this isn't a knockout blow?

yes pav you are . i wasn't blocked a role blocker would have aimed at me . my night action would, have not gone though . they however didnt know about the jail keeper . so they didnt know they were going to be locked up so they didnt block them and the mod said even if scum is locked up the town tracker action will still go though. so its like this luke blocked me but got blocked him self resulting in none of his actions going though.

[cyrus62]

Well, uh, that changes things.

@Azeru, reading through 1075, it seems like you assumed I knew that I had been jailed, but I had no idea. I am a VT, and VTs are not told that they were jailed/role blocked, because they don't have any actions that failed.

I guess that this means I was the NK target, and you saved me.

I am going to look and see who I think was the most likely to try and kill me, and see if I can guess what the scum team was doing for us to end up here.

I understand why you are suspicious of me given what you know - but please don't speed elim me. I at least want enough time to see if I can put a solve out there, to try and help you guys after I am gone

this is a flat out lie.

[cyrus62]

One thought that crossed my mind just now, is whether or not the scum team would know if they were jailed or if their target were jailed at the start of the day?

Like, if they tried to kill me, and then the day started with me alive, would they get a "your target was protected" or conversely if a mafia were jailed, would they get a "your nk was blocked" and since they did not get that message, they would automatically know that I was blocked?

I think I am going to PM the mod for clarification on this, because that would have made a big difference in how they handled start of day I think.

no they dont know. hince why the jail keep is the best role . it works as a doc and a cop. in the longest newbi game its how we caught scum.

[cyrus62]

Well, uh, that changes things.

@Azeru, reading through 1075, it seems like you assumed I knew that I had been jailed, but I had no idea. I am a VT, and VTs are not told that they were jailed/role blocked, because they don't have any actions that failed.

I guess that this means I was the NK target, and you saved me.

I am going to look and see who I think was the most likely to try and kill me, and see if I can guess what the scum team was doing for us to end up here.

I understand why you are suspicious of me given what you know - but please don't speed elim me. I at least want enough time to see if I can put a solve out there, to try and help you guys after I am gone

this is a flat out lie.

Is a VT being targeted by the Jailkeeper get notified? If I was supposed to be told, then it was a mod error. I will ask Ffery this too

no and your not a vt. why would scum target a vt over the knew pr.

[cyrus62]

VOTE: lukewarm lets do this.

[cyrus62]

dont waste the jk revealing them selfs please town.

[cyrus62]

Even if we are killing me today, there is no reason to rush it. We have over 5 days left on our countdown. I just got a big piece of new info to try, and I just want enough time to see if I can come up with a solve to help everyone else before I go.

vin vin its over give it up .

[cyrus62]

ff9 was so cool

[cyrus62]

Vivi my bade

[cyrus62]

Wow vivi you are very good player I love the thought that want in to that
Since my reaction test i been mostly pushing you and HockeyFan scum would have indeed known i was tracking you and I would have got no result and good scum would have not blocked me because they would have known that by doing so I would get no result but that's a gamble you see by doing so the no result would set them up for a fake claim resulting in my miselm. But don't you find it a little funny how zyla was asking if I had no result or that my night action didn't go through. Even though I said I tracked lukewarm and he went no where. Sounds kinda like she expected it not to go through. Now as I said this is my 1st time ever having a power role I have neverd fake claim I have neverd crumb before.

[cyrus62]

no deaths well thanks doc who ever you are. lukewarm went no where last night

To clarify:
Did you get "No action"? Or "No result"?

You see this is a slip. It means her and lukewarm tried to block me but the blocker got jail kept by Azeru which was lukewarm resulting in no death and my night actions going through. That's the game.

[cyrus62]

Just did a light read while in the car heading home, I don't have time for an in depth read, but I will note this:
There is still a chance of Luke being town, if he were the target of the kill rather than the perpetrator. So I think it might be interesting to look at who might want Luke dead specifically
That said, voting Luke could be the way to go today, and I'll look over his ISO again tomorrow

trying to frame someone wont work

[cyrus62]

Azeru i said jail hc but instead lockup Zyla

[cyrus62]

I will track Azeru if I am right we both live and I confirm him As jail keeper

[cyrus62]

so now I will step aside and let the scum put on a show for you.

[cyrus62]

wow your really trying hard anit you boy. i found the slip .lukewarm went no where. in no way adds up to no result or no action. that only happens if i was blocked and i wasn't because the blocker was in jail meaning the jail keeper blocked the role blocker. look 8 alive - one scum and no deaths due to me solving the game. will result in no dead town and we would know the jailkeeper is real and the tt is real and the other scum.

[cyrus62]

elim lukewarm day2 elim zyla day3 and town wins .

[cyrus62]

no deaths well thanks doc who ever you are. lukewarm went no where last night

To clarify:
Did you get "No action"? Or "No result"?

You see this is a slip. It means her and lukewarm tried to block me but the blocker got jail kept by Azeru which was lukewarm resulting in no death and my night actions going through. That's the game.

#@pav did youreadthis

[cyrus62]

Day 2 post from
Me reads thanks doc who ever you Are
Lukewarm went no where last night. Now change doc to jk and Azeru jail keeper message in there and then reread zyla question
My post clearly stating my action went through. So Zyla question is more of a scum slip than a question.

[cyrus62]

We will know after the flip.

[cyrus62]

damn luke you put a lot of effort into this

That's what I said his preformce deseves a scummy
.

[cyrus62]

damn luke you put a lot of effort into this

That's what I said his preformce deseves a scummy
.

[cyrus62]

Town would self hammer so others would look at the wagon for scum

[cyrus62]

Zulu is town

[cyrus62]

Zyla

[cyrus62]

Went no where so scum lie in pav std hockey and he Zyla went no where

[cyrus62]

So hc I'm town Zyla is town out of the 3besides you who is scummy

[cyrus62]

VOTE: hockey

[cyrus62]

I'm going trust Zyla reads which were hockey and std and pav said hockey too so let's remove him and it will be between Zyla std and hc ok last vt idk who you are but don't vote Zyla on day4

[cyrus62]

No way scum lets me live .

[cyrus62]

No Zyla is 100% town the Br is dead hockey lets eliminate hc think about it the jail keep locked up Zyla so hc would know since he's se that Zyla is innocent. VOTE: hc

[cyrus62]

No Zyla is 100% town the Br is dead hockey lets eliminate hc think about it the jail keep locked up Zyla so hc would know since he's se that Zyla is innocent. VOTE: hc

Why would I know that the jailkeeper locked up Zyla?

Did you not read I told him to lock up Zyla? Have you not been using the two days to catch up

[cyrus62]

Zyla the balls in your court you are confirm town so tell me who you want to go in to day4 with scum won't let me live to day4

[cyrus62]

No Zyla is 100% town the Br is dead hockey lets eliminate hc think about it the jail keep locked up Zyla so hc would know since he's se that Zyla is innocent. VOTE: hc

No i meant Azeru could have been on u

ok newbi I know it's my job to teach you. Jk blocks if I was locked up I would get no result

[cyrus62]

Hockey you realize every one is scum reading you . If I was town and every one thought I was scum I would try to get my self voted off so town stood a better chance in d4

[cyrus62]

No Zyla is 100% town the Br is dead hockey lets eliminate hc think about it the jail keep locked up Zyla so hc would know since he's se that Zyla is innocent. VOTE: hc

Why would I know that the jailkeeper locked up Zyla?

Did you not read I told him to lock up Zyla? Have you not been using the two days to catch up

I did read that you told Azeru to lock of Zyla. I did not read anything indicating that Azeru agreed to do that.

Luke's interactions regarding Zyla were suspicious as hell so if Zyla is cleared via tracker then I need to go back to the drawing board.

I thought the same I think Luke pocketed her. My last result said she went no where and with only 1 scum they can't hide that now. Look in to Luke and std and Luke and hockey. I asked std pav and Zyla they all said hockey was scum. Luke and hockey kept protecting each other..

[cyrus62]

I can't be right

[cyrus62]

Zyla you there

[cyrus62]

My issue is I been on hockey all game I can't be right that fast

[cyrus62]

Use a
. The time you can Zyla is clear prove your town to her just incase

[cyrus62]

Use all
. The time you can Zyla is clear prove your town to her just incase

[cyrus62]

I dont think the entire Luke/STD interaction is scum/scum. Which through POE means mafia lies in Pav/Haschel.

Have you even been trying this game

[cyrus62]

VOTE: hockey I just can't shake the feeling

[cyrus62]

VOTE: hockey I just can't shake the feeling

I mean thats fine, Im pretty scummy but when u actually compare Luke's interactions with Pav to mine/luke's interactions, i think pav/luke's interactions are wayyy more scummy. Luke null read Pav almost all of d1 and didnt really interact with them. He then proceeded to have 1 post mid-d1 saying how Pav is scummy but never pushed on this further. EOD D1 is when He started paring Pav with STD and pushed the STD slot a bit more than Pav. Lets go to start of d2: Luke still pairs Std/Pav. Luke places a random vote on Pav and just leaves it there. He pushed pav a bit hard near EOD d2 but that was when he was already going down, so thats pretty much NAI. I think this entire interaction is way likely for partners than me/Luke

The harder you fight the more I scum read you

[cyrus62]

We don't know if it was Zyla or has cal that was locked up all we know is as is died and Zyla went no where

[cyrus62]

VOTE: hockey I just can't shake the feeling

I mean thats fine, Im pretty scummy but when u actually compare Luke's interactions with Pav to mine/luke's interactions, i think pav/luke's interactions are wayyy more scummy. Luke null read Pav almost all of d1 and didnt really interact with them. He then proceeded to have 1 post mid-d1 saying how Pav is scummy but never pushed on this further. EOD D1 is when He started paring Pav with STD and pushed the STD slot a bit more than Pav. Lets go to start of d2: Luke still pairs Std/Pav. Luke places a random vote on Pav and just leaves it there. He pushed pav a bit hard near EOD d2 but that was when he was already going down, so thats pretty much NAI. I think this entire interaction is way likely for partners than me/Luke

Dude.... he had that whole tirade where he scumread me for dropping a little bit of sus on him, voted me before Az dropped her intel, and then continued to push me even after.

But that's okay. What are your thoughts on Haschel?

Asssuming Zyla is <town>, its pretty much auto and we can condemm Haschel tmr since we have 1 mislim

We are far from a auto win.

[cyrus62]

So since Zyla is deciding who we vote off I"ll wait.

[cyrus62]

Std isn't or like I thought so his play here is bad

[cyrus62]

We my thoughts . Pav knew I read him as town and wouldn't track him allowing him the opportunity and movto. So he could be scum. Std hasn't done much so he could be scum has also could be scum and hockey could be scum lol I'm happy I won't live tonight

[cyrus62]

Let's use the time we have unvote

[cyrus62]

UNVOTE: [unvote

[cyrus62]

VOTE: std

[cyrus62]

Hockey why is pav scum? He wasn't voting lukewarm till after ax showd his hand . You and Zyla defended Luke even after . As reveald them selfs . We now know Zyla is town . Had she not defined Luke so hard we may have already caught scum . I don't known if you just acting or you real don't understand. But yes had pav wanted to he could have gone a difent way and not voted Luke

[cyrus62]

Going to say hc is scum. He's lazy keeps saying he's going catch up its 45 pages in 3 days if he was following I believe what Luke wrote came from a se I'm pretty sure this is Luke's 1st time as scum so someone who's been around a bit came up with it.

[cyrus62]

Lol almost 50 but by 3days I ment day3

[cyrus62]

Hockey why is pav scum? He wasn't voting lukewarm till after ax showd his hand . You and Zyla defended Luke even after . As reveald them selfs . We now know Zyla is town . Had she not defined Luke so hard we may have already caught scum . I don't known if you just acting or you real don't understand. But yes had pav wanted to he could have gone a difent way and not voted Luke

It was not so much how he interacted with luke, it was how Luke interacted with Pav. Also, I think Haschel and STD are more town then Pav- Haschel cuz of his d1(although tbf he does look a bit bad for the Strange condemm), STd is town because once again, I dont think Luke interacts with STD that way as scum buddies(pushed him some of d1, and pocketed me(probes because i was pushing STD)

the game rides on the flip if said person is town person who hammerd could be voted off super fast and we lose.

[cyrus62]

i didnt look at std cause i thought he was the other pr . removing that makes him look scummy

[cyrus62]

The question is would you all rather short hockey or hc

[cyrus62]

It's a shame pros can't leave a will like letting people know who they are going to lock up

[cyrus62]

Oh wait std hammered before ax could speak again

[cyrus62]

Az

[cyrus62]

cyrus, what makes pav town

honestly just gut feeling im dead any way but i do plan on taking that to my grave by checking him tonight. so i'll either know hes scum or hes not but i must likely wont get result if im dead. only town cred i gave pav or std was thinking they were pr hc just rubs me wrong no action just mia the whole game.

[cyrus62]

hockey is no help

[cyrus62]

im not hammering today so your have to win over zyla .

[cyrus62]

cyrus what are your reads right now

right now im not sure. i want to tell everyone something but i dont want people to think im scum when i do.

[cyrus62]

remeber how i said this was my 1st time as a powerole. well since it was i wanted to put my own thoughts of the game somewhere

[cyrus62]

so at the start of the game before i posted i askd the mod for a pt.

[cyrus62]

in my pt with my self lukewarm was my number 1 scum at the start of the game.

[cyrus62]

and hockey was my 2nd

[cyrus62]

there now i told you guys . you will see my thoughts after the game.

[cyrus62]

...why would we think you scum for that

cuse i have a pt

[cyrus62]

lots of people ask for that

ok if i knew i would have said something before. yes as said hockey cant live today scum or not but hc might be scum he doesn't seem to do nothing so its a coin flip between hc and hockey . but my question who do you think is town between pav ,hc or hockey add this we didnt elim hc day 1 cause he said he was going do major catch up and never did.

[cyrus62]

why are you voting me

If my votes on you i don't have to worry about hockey being hammered UNVOTE:

[cyrus62]

Hockey if your town self hammer. Gl every one

[cyrus62]

Now you see Zyls scum lay in pav or hsscall but std was worried my vote was there

[cyrus62]

That is why I didn't vote hockey. Elim pav tomorrow Zyls std and hascal

[cyrus62]

@mod my pt can be made public

Gig well played my pt should be made public soon

[cyrus62]

Did either of you look at my pt

[cyrus62]

Now that's dis appointing no ones talking about my pt.

[cyrus62]

If the game had ended a week sooner you would have handed me my 1st town lost. But 2nd isn't bad.

[cyrus62]

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