Newbie 2074 | Game Over

[Leaven]

hi there!
VOTE: Jamesthenames

[Leaven]

My go to lately has just been just taking low carb vanilla and mashing anything fun I can find into it. So obvious is oreos or chocolate chips, but branching out to other leftover Halloween candy like kitkat bars and snickers, whatever cookies are lying around like thin mints, or cereal like cornflakes, cocoa krispies.

[Leaven]

I have not come across banana ice cream, so it's not common here, but there are plenty of homemade ice cream shops that make their own, so I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find it. Have you had banana pizza though?

[Leaven]

No rush and maybe I should just research myself, but interested in the reasons to self-vote.

UNVOTE: JamesTheNames
VOTE: Ythan

I guess it got me to unvote, so maybe that's one...

[Leaven]

My avatar backs up my story.

My avatar quacks up my story.

[Leaven]

Loving Salsa's entrance. Underwhelmed with Ythan's, so my vote is staying there. Val89 makes everyone accounted for.

If you are adding caramel to something, it's no longer vanilla, is it?

Since we're discussing semantics, Caramel ice cream is distinctly different than vanilla with caramel. I would assume vanilla with caramel refers to vanilla with caramel topping, although it is a bit ambiguous and could be mistaken for vanilla with a caramel swirl.

[Leaven]

Interesting you would try and fudge the issue like this, though.

I do prefer fudge topping on a sundae over caramel, although both combined is best. As for candy, I actually prefer caramels to fudge.

[Leaven]

mark it in the charts that 4 people in my ambiguous "want to play with" list are gaming with me (but 1 replaced out, making it back to 3 currently playing)

Would you say you are better or worse at correctly identifying players you are familiar with or more prone to mistakes? Personally don't mind either way, but wondering if your familiarity is an advantage to leverage, a crutch to be aware of, or just neutral/not sure/varies.

[Leaven]

If I'm catching up, is it preferably to multi-quote in response to multiple people are just 1 by 1 them?

Oki...
this is a really bad move, and this is the reason I'm going to vote him

Is there any reason for colored text? I'm assuming personal preference but wanted to be sure.

I'm a VT.

Would a more experience player let me know if there is something to take away from this at this point of Day 1?

[Leaven]

in newbie 2068, they did nearly the same thing as here for their opening posts, and so it read out to me as a deliberate attempt to keep their posting habits uniform, which val admits a part of
are you able to look back to that game and point out differences that imply that val is doing this as scum this time around?

So is the take here that this was done for balancing personal meta? Does having a balanced meta in general benefit a player most when town or when scum long term? Does being balanced in an individual situation help that specific town or scum?

[Leaven]

Sorry, trying to balance your style when playing as scum vs town.

[Leaven]

I think I'm in agreement that conversation generation outweighs any of the finer meta points I was digging in to, but didn't want to complete handwave the conversation out of intellectual curiosity. Although, I do need to be aware of not diverting attention from moving out of RVS by nitpicking meta theory for my own education. Active posting seems for good/town, and while active for the sake distraction and confusion is less so, RVS by definition sort of has to fall into that fluff bucket at first. I don't think we want to discourage posting, but rather incent it.

[Leaven]

you didn't do that to get the game going

why did you actually do it

You'll be very surprised by the answer.

Would it be possible to walk through some hypothetical answers for why you did it that would be surprising?

[Leaven]

Welcome newbie enjoy your time on MS.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but this read to me as back-handed insult. So please clarify - what's your intent here??

[Leaven]

UNVOTE: Ythan Not comfortable with this at 3. Will be back this evening.

[Leaven]

@Ythan why did you retract the vote on me by the way? Between your vote and your unvote my only posts was reiterating why I claimed, and me saying how many posts had to do with my claim.

The post in between clarified that you're probably just wrong and not trolling. I wasn't expecting you to repeat what you had said previously.

Why doesn't a troll simply repeat themselves?

Quoting the posts to try in good faith to understand the question and I'm just not following. Ythan says James is just wrong rather than knowingly trolling and you ask why doesnt James, if trolling, just repeat himself? I'm not sure because I don't get the troll or the logic of the would be troll.

[Leaven]

In other words, no, it isn't blindlingly obvious to the degree you can safely assume anyone confused is either pretending or an absolute idiot?

I guess my prior post is me saying im an idiot.

[Leaven]

@Leaven Is there something specific about Ythan's posting today (or perhaps the posting of others) that made you feel there was a risk of 2 more people hopping on his wagon?

Yes, I was surprised to see the vote count at 3 , the posting felt very heated to me, and I was about to be in a stressful situation for a couple of hours, and didn't want to be distracted by wondering if I was risking a quick hammer on day 2.

[Leaven]

In other words, no, it isn't blindlingly obvious to the degree you can safely assume anyone confused is either pretending or an absolute idiot?

I guess my prior post is me saying im an idiot.

Oh? maybe this is your point, since it's not obvious what is even be contested that it's not clear cut that confused parties are clearly playing dumb or are dumb. That is, they are legitimately having a tough time following the argument. I've even lost track of the greater context. I think we're talking about the James VT claim. Dann states explains it wasn't pro-town with explanation, and refutes that James explanation of trying to move things forwards isn't more valuable than what was given up for the town by his action. James doing it as a troll never seemed to be a point and Ythan clarified as such and then you are asking why the troll wouldn't repeat themselves. I just get lost here. So if James was trolling (not claimed) and if Ythan called him a troll (didn't happen) and if Ythan had an expectation of the troll repeating himself (which he stated he wouldn't because of the posts clarifying that there was no claim of trolling), why wouldn't a troll in that hypothetical situation take the action of repeating a prior explanation that was deemed not to be a troll?

TBH, none of this seems at all productive and if there is a read to be made, please clarify cause I'm simplifying it all to whether or not James is unintentionally sabotaging town as town because he feels it worth the sacrifice to move things along and/or to experiment in a newbie game, or if it is just scum making poor excuses for said sabotage.

[Leaven]

And is scum just sitting back laughing watch us implode?

[Leaven]

Not really. I was first to take offense to Ythan's name calling, but I'm also getting the sense you're doing the same with anyone not following your argument here? Is calling people idiots just par for the course here?

[Leaven]

Appreciate that and agree with this.

having to ask that question is no indication of a lack intellegence, or false intent.

[Leaven]

Sure. This bit isn't hypothetical. I did the same thing in my last game then got hammered from 0 votes to 5 votes within the span of about 4 hours before D1 ended due to time. I wanted to try it again. I won't comment further regarding that game as said game is ongoing.

Hypothetical answers:
From a mechanics point of view even town vs even scum, ie 6 town vs 2 scum, benefits town, I get conftowned by claiming and we get to a beneficial mechanical stage?

The first non-newbie game I read over Dannflor did this, and I wanted to try it.

If I make everythone think I look stupid with random claims and hard-tunnelling. I won't get killed during the Nights and can save the game D3 or D4.

Maybe I lack imagination, but this explanation reads worse.

J says he claimed VT recently and it had a decisively bad result for himself and team. So he immediately does it again. What makes him think the same won't happen again? The upside to building a meta by claiming VT as VT would be for when he eventually wants to claim VT as a non-VT I presume?

So either:
- He's dumping this game again as VT for an even future scum game (worse than last time because of how last time went)
- This is that future game where he's scum (cashing in on the last game to take this town down)
- Given the value of a PR and how badly it went last time, the least generous conclusion would be assigning him as PR here, although that would likely be the least surprising next revelation.

I'll go with the most generous conclusion which is that this is the cash-in game.

VOTE: JamesTheNames

[Leaven]

Outside of this, I don't have much to go on. So while this is my current best idea, it is the first day and take that with a grain of salt. Given you agree this was "objectively poor for town", then unless you can point to activity that is more objectively bad for town, my vote lands here.

Let's assume james is vt (entirely possible), then by claiming vt, he saying him as vt surviving another day is more valuable to town than a town PR lasting another day? If he is truly vt and sacrificing town win equity for self preservation, which seems to be his stated reason, that would (1) be against site rules and (2) be a behavior all town have a duty to self regulate against. Otherwsie, are we telling scum they can freeing engage in town-harming behavior without consequence?

I'm certainly open to being convinced otherwise, but given that "in principal that claiming vt as early as this is objectively poor play as town", the burden, to me, seems to rest on justifying a vote elsewhere.

[Leaven]

And, in my opinion, outside of a better scum target, anyone who defends objectively anti town behavior done with basically the defense of "I know this is bad for town and last time I did it it was bad for town but i did it anyway because I'm experimenting" or because "as vt I'm more valuable to town on day 3 than a town PR" is at least equally if not more sus. Give me a better target, but without one, I'm going to go hard at antitown behavior and doing it doubly so to make it known that I will go hard against anyone who harms town for either scummy or personal gain over pro-town wincon reasons. We gave james an out by admitting this was objectively antitown and his defense was proff he has already done this before with an anti-town outcome. So he knew full well this strat doesnt help town and he did it anyway. If your conclusion is that anyone policing antitown behavior is now sus, town is already lost. Are we now in bizarro world where taking a hard stance against antitown behavior is now anti-town?

[Leaven]

Val, do you accept that james took an objectively anti-town line by claiming vt? If so, then it's that simple anti-town = pro-scum. If not, then that's where we don't see eye to eye.

[Leaven]

I don't want scum to be able to claim VT in my games on day 1, and I don't want VT's to sell out PR's to advance their own personal meta. Either James is scum by doing anti-town things, or is putting his future scum or current VT self ahead of any current PR. I will always go hard against this as town. If you accept James can build personal meta by doing anti-town things when he draws VT, then it should be even easier for you to accept that I have no choice but to hard-vote against this indefensible anti-town behavior (absent a better option) to prevent it from happening. Simply put, I don't want to set the precedence that doing anti-town things is okay when I'm town and I'm certainly never going to allow scum to day 1 VT claim their way to a win.

[Leaven]

So if Salsa, Leaven, and James all flip town this game. What are the takeaways.

- With Salsa, scum can freely do anti-town things and even be town-bucketed for it. Furthermore, if people vote that scummy behavior, they will actually be scum-bucketed for it.
- With myself, scum will know they can't easily get away with anti-town things.

What advantage does town get (now or in the future) from laying a red carpet down for scum to freely behave against the interest of town? I'm happy to create an environment that discourages anti-town behavior.

If James was randomly 25% Scum, 25% PR, 50% VT, now I have him at 30% Scum, 5% PR, 65% VT. Still overwhelmingly likely to be VT, but as I've said previously, outside of a better option (which we likely will have in 5 days), my vote lands there.

[Leaven]

If I have James as my top scum read, then it's not a policy vote. He reduced his odds of being PR and increased his odds of scum and VT with that action The policy aspect is only a consideration because of the meta conversation. If James is going to VT claim early for his own experiment, then I'm going to vote it so people stop experimenting to the town's detriment.

James - Do you think I would unvote you if you moved to E-2 before the last day? I may be way off-base, but I'm guessing that VT-James is probably is more sus of Salsa, Dan, and Sushi for defending him than he is of me for prosecuting him.

[Leaven]

You might be overselling this one a bit James. Given the "will see how townie I am all the time" comment came in response to Leaven suggesting that a refusal to vote you for your VT claim is laying a red carpet for scummy behavoir

To be clear, the red-carpet isn't laid by not voting James or ignoring it all together. The red-carpet is laid by how we as town react. When we start town-bucketing because of their anti-town behavior and scum-bucketing for condemning it, we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Leaven]

To that end, I owe James an apology. All this activity is proof that his line had merit. UNVOTE: JamesTheNames

VOTE: ClarkBar 10 posts? Come save us please!

[Leaven]

the tinfoil theory is that leaven crafted their scumcase in a way that if james were to respond to

any

part of it they get modkilled

this isn't related to the last post I made

idk whether you're right but I think it's towny you're on the lookout for that

I missed this Sushi comment the first time, but agree it is a really astute observation, albeit one I hadn't considered the implications of at the time.

Welcome Gamma. Enjoying the energy you've brought to the game.

[Leaven]

If House were in this game I'd expect him to call this out as proper play scolding, but as he isn't I'll do it instead
this feels like Ythan is more interested in lecturing people than actually sorting them

Are you referring to Dr House MD, the character from the popular American Medical Drama series, as played by Hugh Laurie, where it's never lupus except for that one time it was lupus, or is there just another user here that goes by "House".

[Leaven]

Well. Salsa's self-vote was disappointing. Is there ever a good reason to hammer oneself as town? James was an interesting NK - if town wins, he'll be the hero.

I do agree we need a very good reason to move off of GM or Ythan though. I actually would like to fully explore GE, before moving forward with Ythan. This is not a real defense of Ythan (outside of that too scummy to be scum vibe), but rather simply that GE did more of the rounding up of the wagon while trying to maintain the appearance of town. Ythan, imo, just rubbed many the wrong way and I read both sides of that vote as more emotional (see Salsa getting fed up and self-hammering in the heat of the moment) compared to GE's case which was more deliberately executed. Also, I worry that given the day, GE would be able to sell me a bridge.

VOTE: GammaEmerald

I've been trying to think through the implications of presenting this case, because as much as I caveat, I can't get away from this reading as a Ythan defense and tbh who would want to defend Ythan here. It's such an easily and defensible vote.

[Leaven]

Val, outside of ythan, who is your 2nd highest scumread?

[Leaven]

Summarizing. Dont mean to put words in anyones mouth so please correct me if mistaken or if your sentiment has changed.

Ythan:
Val (or Clsr)
Gamma (self preservation)
*Strange (or Gamma)
**Dannflor (? if refusing to vote GE now)

Gamma:
Leaven
Clsr (or Val per rankings)
Ythan (self preservation)
*Strange (or Ythan)
**Dannflor (changed mind)

Assume gamma and ythan would vote to save each other. Dann was on gamma, not sure if would vote ythan to save gamma now though. Regardless, this reads that gamma/val needs both strange AND dannflor or ythan/clsr/leaven needs only one of strange OR dann.

[Leaven]

Meant to say gamma and ythan would vote to save themselves not each other.

[Leaven]

Sorry to confuse. Yes, just tallying the counts. Before Dann pulled his vote, it looked like 5 out of 7 had gamma in top 2. With 7 left and 2 scum remaining, 5 is as much of a consensus as you can get. I'll listen to other cases, but a collective first impression hitting 5 for 5 is very compelling to me from a purely statistical perspective. This town is already working uphill against two self votes, including a self hammer. I obviously can't be sure, but it just seems likeliest and talking myself out of it would just be fancy play syndrome. We haven't heard much from Dann or ythan, though. Regardless, when presented gamma/val vs clsr/ythan, I feel safer aligning with the latter given my read of things.

[Leaven]

So I wrote this back when early votes signaled unanimous Gamma (to me at least) but I've been sitting on my hands hoping Dann, strange, and ythan would get more active.

A plausible sequence of events.
Assume salsa(confirmed), strange, ythan, james(confirmed), leaven all town. Strange(town) and james(town) already have votes on salsa. Salsa is presently voting leaven(town) and at risk of omgus. If you're scum, this is an irresistible ML wagon. Sure this may happen some times when gamma is town, but it happens nearly every time gamma is scum. Salsa did one better, by soliciting another omgus town vote by swapping her vote to ythan(town) and this time successfully securing it. A 5th vote wasn't even needed since salsa(town) self hammered.

To be fair, strange(rvs) or ythan(omgus) could still be scum, but have much firmer defenses than gamma for why they were on the wagon.

Strange seemed willing to admit it could be gamma or ythan, despite voting ythan (this was my personal first impression when I woke up on day 2, but have solidified in two different different directions). I'm not sure how much more strange would prefer ythan to gamma though.

Val being sus of ythan, but not gamma, reads sus but not damning. Having clsr as number 2 who im town-reading, doesn't help. And now he's scum-reading myself (which tbh gives him some towncred).

Clsr already scumread gamma/val, which is where I've been.

Dann voting gamma, moved him off my radar, and had me thinking town, but I guess he could haven been bussing for cred and pulled when he noticed the heat turning up. We don't get much commentary on the votes or the unvotes. Now on Strange, which is defensible.

[Leaven]

I'll state it again and let each of those 5 dispute:

• Leaven
  CLSR - had Gamma/Val as top 2 scum
  Strange - first post day 2 said Ythan or Gamma before voting Ythan (but saying he wouldn't mind if Ythan flipped green)
  Dann - voted Gamma early day 2
  Ythan - yet to be heard from, but if choosing between himself and Gamma, presume would be ok with Gamma.

Repeating for the sake of understanding my mindset. Town has had 2 self-votes (including a self-hammer that prevented us from getting a lot more info on day 1 - 617 maps out the easy ML that town should have been looking to stop on day 1, but we had 2 emotional town self-inflicted votes leading to a quick hammer robbing us of that opportunity). Remember when I was berated for not wanting to be on an E-2 wagon with my RVS. This is exactly why. On top of that, 2 of my 5 town reads aren't actively participating (Ythan and Dann) despite being our SE's (I understand it's likely out of their control rather than strategic, but still not ideal). Strange, my other town, said he was ok with a policy vote flipping Ythan green, which tbh I don't blame him for, but would prefer we don't given what seems like a better option.

[Leaven]

Dannflor - Strange could definitely be scum, but the Salsa wagon isn't a case because he was there (by my estimation) during RVS. Also in GammaScum world, coming out early day 2 and saying it could be ythan or gamma, but ythan also works as policy is a bit scummy because it gives him an out if either gamma flips red, or if ythan flips green. That's why it would be interesting to see how much more strongly Strange feels about Ythan over Gamma.

Same is true for you (Dannflor) to a lesser extent though.

CLSR - Why again was Gamma/Val implausible? If Val could be cleared that would be awesome, but I feel Val and my own reads are fairly far apart.

[Leaven]

617. Salsa was the was easy ML from any scum's perspective. Just walk through those events in your head if you were scum vs if you were town.

Consider a shark attack. If you heard about a shark attack (salsa elim), would you you assume it was within 1 mile of shore or not? Sure shark attacks happen at sea (gamma could be third on salsa unwittingly) but it happens nearly all the time when gamma is scum (most shark attacks happen close to shore because that's overwhelmingly where most shark encounters occur - gamma is usually scum when he wagons salsa become salsa wagons happen overwhelming more when gamma is scum than if he is town and unsure about salsa. Town cant be sure but since we can evaluate the underlying likelihoods, we can make a better than random selection. Town has imperfect information and infinite possibilities but can do plenty to evaluate likelihoods and maximize our chances. It's simply much more likely that gamma ends up third on salsa(town) intentionally when he is scum than he does accidentally when he is town. If you think that towngamma unwittingly starts this wagon as town with jamestown and strange(town - asummimg you are town) already on it and salsa voting leaven(scum) not biting the omgus vote then your vote is correctly on me and not gamma. It certainly gives me a lot of credit that I as scum would not vote salsa back with 2 town (assuming you're town which is dubious) on her already AND her voting for me.

Fwiw, after strange saying ythan or gamma, voting ythan as policy, then flipping from ythan to me. I think dann and cows are right about you (strange) being scummy, so i stand corrected. But again overwhelmingly odds are that gamma is best shot.

So Val, are you 100 percent ruling out Gamma as scum here?

*posting on mobile - apology for typos.

[Leaven]

So gammascum, strange, val, and dann lim leaventown here and nk clsrtown. Can ythan val dann strange figure out whos the scum amongst them if they all unanimously vote gamma d3.

[Leaven]

If its strangescum, this seems winning for town right?

[Leaven]

I put ythan's play as omgus. It read heated to me. Certainly worth discussion though, but i personally found gamma's directed case towards salsa too perfect a scum situation.

I read a post that said town should find the easy d1 ML and stop it. Well we didnt stop it but we still knew who instigated it.

[Leaven]

For the record. How bad of a look is it for me (as town) when I end up actually talking my fellow town out of limming the top scum by sentiment at morning if that person ends up flipping red?

[Leaven]

I mean in evaluating my townplay post game.

[Leaven]

You need to flip yourself and val in the example.

[Leaven]

No wait. Yes thats how i read it early.

[Leaven]

Plus dann had voted gamma already.

[Leaven]

It was also the setup of her currently voting leaven(town), so scum would expect me to likely join. That's why i considered Gamma's vote a defacto E-1, despite it likely looking like only E-2

[Leaven]

Strange - if Gamma flips red, how would your reads change?

[Leaven]

Leaven - Gamma (2nd Strange)
Dann - Strange (2nd Leaven)
CLSR - Strange
Ythan - ?
Val - Assume Leaven
Strange - Leaven
Gamma - Leaven

I may be wrong, but I'm assuming one of Ythan or Val likes you for scum over me, and despite you voting me, I'm risking myself to save townStrange. Is there scumLeaven reason to do that? TownLeaven reason is that I like Gamma for it a lot more. I think the only scum reason for me not to vote you here is if you were my partner. So if gamma flips green, then town should go me then you.

[Leaven]

Hell if the wind blows a little, Dann could flip his vote to me.

[Leaven]

Val. How are you feeling about Gamma/Strange?

[Leaven]

Knowing where Ythan stood would be great. Preferably before voting this time.

[Leaven]

Also, I wasn’t here to even be able to stop them from hammering themselves, which just makes me angry to think about.

1. The two others in this wagon, (Ythan, Gamma) are scum, and pushed it to waste time over day 1. More leaning towards scum being Ythan here.

Or

2. Everyone who is on this is Town and scum is outside this wagon entirely and let it happen instead, passing day 1 and killing the person I read as Town.

bumping

[Leaven]

I investigated Gamma last night. Sorry i botched this town. It just read that sentiment was going to correctly get him. That's why I wouldn't join the ythan wagon, and now I'm not on the strange wagon to my own detriment, because it's 100 pct gamma.

[Leaven]

Yes

[Leaven]

Because I'm a newb and honestly didn't know if I'm supposed to declare on a N1 hit. Plus it looked to me like we had 5 on gamma anyway, so I'd be able to get another investigation off, without exposing myself. I'm not sure if I was supposed to just allow a Ythan or Strange lim here (risking a ML) to preserve myself another night. Also, I'm pretty sure my cover was blown anyway, if Gamma didn't get limmed. I'm going to be away for stretches today, but I'll do my best. Sorry again to town if I played this wrong.

[Leaven]

If we have doc, scum has roleblock, but I guess that could be gamma. If that happens, I think town just wins though.

[Leaven]

I did get blocked last night.

[Leaven]

ill probably just flip a coin.

[Leaven]

Now, I am less sure on ythan. However, my gut pretty much the whole game has also told me ythan is town.

I could be wrong there. I think it sucks that he had so much inactivity in the middle of the game. but generally I think his reactions have been towny?

Let's look at Gamma now. Gamma enters the game buddying up to Val and suspecting Ythan. As a very general rule, scum don't really want to do either of those with their buddies coming into the game, unless their buddies are already in a particularly bad or good spot. As of Gamma's entrance, I don't believe enough game content had been generated to really put Val or Ythan in particularly good or bad spots.

Gamma continues to push Ythan in #412, #418, #423, #427, #431, and #444. It's a pretty hard push all things considered. Ythan is not a bad player. His wagon had melted before Gamma had replaced in. I doubt Gamma would have felt the need to bus this hard coming into the game. Now, it's not an impossibility that they could be partners. I have some lingering doubt because Gamma never actually voted ythan, but I find it unlikely.

It's also usually unlikely for scum to vote one after another on a miselimination. Again, not impossible. But scum, whether intentionally or unintentionally, usually try to spread out and not concentrate on a single wagon.

This is where I'm at as well, but can empathize with Strange's sentiments early day 2 to policy vote Ythan, and the end of day 2 only strengthens my empathy with that view.

[Leaven]

I don't think Ythan is likely to flip scum at this point, and while yes I did say that I didn't have a better person I wanted to vote at that point.

This is where I disagree, since I really took your early posting in day 2 to imply ythan or gamma (despite voting ythan with a green flip excuse), but then when pressed on the issue, it seemed like you became a Gamma defender.

[Leaven]

Nah, I'm leaning Val84.

[Leaven]

I guess I owe val a reread with you as scum.

[Leaven]

Crap. Is it dann afterall?

[Leaven]

I dont like your iso #18 to #24.

[Leaven]

Sorry. I meant 20-24 because of the voting and unvoting without explanation. And while possible, it doesnt seem as likely as other options.

[Leaven]

Val, how confident are you on your dan vote over SM or ythan?

[Leaven]

For people not sus of gamma, it seems that him flipping red would lead to massive overhauls of thinking about the game, but im not seeing that evolution really.

[Leaven]

I'm sold.

[Leaven]

Idk if anyone can confirm this playstyle of voting and unvoting and re-voting without declaring rationale as something Dann does when town as well. I certainly don't understand the rush to end day 2. Town just keeps handicapping itself and I'm certainly responsible with my poor cop play.

A question I have post game is if I just lay low and allow a potential ythan or strange ML, so I get another investigation and also I let the day play out without tainting the waters with my nonsense.

Going to allow Ythan and Strange an opportunity to chime in, but feel okay with this.

[Leaven]

Idk if anyone can confirm this playstyle of voting and unvoting and re-voting without declaring rationale as something Dann does when town as well. I certainly don't understand the rush to end day 2. Town just keeps handicapping itself and I'm certainly responsible with my poor cop play.

A question I have post game is if I just lay low and allow a potential ythan or strange ML, so I get another investigation and also I let the day play out without tainting the waters with my nonsense.

Going to allow Ythan and Strange an opportunity to chime in, but feel okay with this.

[Leaven]

Ok. I felt you already caught on to me as PR before I claimed yesterday and your behavior is completely understandable from that perspective.

[Leaven]

idk maybe we just go ythan here so he stops E-1 people out of nowhere everyday. This is day 3 of doing that and I specifically asked him not to on day 2. Because I think we still had some play before I was forced to claim before a QH. Remember day one when people lol'd at me unvoting and yet we've gone 2 for 2 now.

[Leaven]

Yeah, I think he's town, just seconding SM's policy comments from day 1. We want Val here anyway right?

[Leaven]

I don't think Ythan is scum, but would feel better about how all of these events went down if he was.

[Leaven]

Meh. After sleep and reread, im growing on ythan. I just cant find any town behavior. I realize too scum to be scum is a thing but the gamage seems too much to overlook. Is there any towncase besides too scummy?

[Leaven]

I know this has been discussed so ill reread those comments

[Leaven]

Sincerely appreciate those posts even if you flip red and it was a tactical advantage for you to make them.

[Leaven]

Oof. That didnt come out how I intended but saying those posts were valuable to me from a learning the game perspective.

[Leaven]

Ive only flipped a half dozen times but warming up to ythan then SM. Does scum!val defend gamma the way he did yesterday knowing he would flip red?

[Leaven]

Only that it can only be 1 of them lol. Im good with ythan and SM.

[Leaven]

And we're good with ythan tomorrow?

[Leaven]

Btw, if

Leaven

flips red,

StrangeMatter

most likely their partner I think.

Well, you’d be wrong about only this, if he does flip red.

Also, do you have Town reads?

Dan

,

James

,

Val

.

Is it just me or does it feel remarkably like Salsa is trying to pocket Dann? Her reads mirror his a bit

too

much imo.

This game is full of clowns.

Welcome newbie enjoy your time on MS.

Welcome newbie enjoy your time on MS.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but this read to me as back-handed insult. So please clarify - what's your intent here??

No you got it.

good job on NK me there.

[Leaven]

woops didn't mean to quote that stuff. that must have been saved from when I thought I'd be voting today.

[Leaven]

Any thoughts on how to play the red N1 investigation on Gamma would be appreciated.

[Leaven]

I don't know what that would entail.

Also, did Dann protect anyone last night?

[Leaven]

ohhh of course! thanks for modding Nahdia.