Newbie 2097 | Kinobot 2: Electric Kinoloo | Post-game

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Who am I voting?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi.

Voting myself is against my wincon.

Who has the biggest wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He isn't E-1, right?

Would be a bad thing to hammer immediately

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It would be E-1 or it would be hammer?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't have any thoughts yet, just gonna read up soon.

VOTE: HEM

E-1!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BluebloodedToffee replaces whiskey delta

I hope so!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wait is bbt even in this game

Also im not hammering that.
Someone unvote if youre on hem

Ew.

Why do you want an unvote?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What slot is town?

Pedit - Prolonging days is scummier.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Someone should state intent.

Pedit - Rude

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Booooo!

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I haven't read the game yet, I promise I will though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Rude.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I'd like to think so.

D1s should always be trigger happy. Get the most amount of information possible.

I also disagree that my play has been anti-town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If scum lol hammer then they elim themselves, no?

Again, it's not about post count. It's about information. In saying that, low posters don't fill me with joy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have not read the thread.

An lol hammer is an immediate D2 elim.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I will do that.

And I will elim anyone who lol hammers.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RC and Furtive both ignoring that I placed someone to E-1 with literally no reasoning.

That's interesting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

2 pages of BBT hemming and hawing about basically, not moving votes and not reading isn't a good look though.

Do something about it?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do something. It's not a good look you said.

Do something.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Different good or different bad?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Throwing out early town reads is easy for scum, too.

Difficult for town.

UNVOTE:

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm happy to elim TL or RC. Serious play now though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can't be excited to play Furtive? How rude.

You think I obvtowned in the other game and haven't here? That's interesting

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: RC

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RC just threw shade at me and did absolutely nothing about it

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I understand that.

They did throw shade though. And then not follow it up. Why would town do that?

Pedit - Challenge accepted

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just say things with intention or conviction and people find it scummy. That's a them problem.

This struggle is real. I feel you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think throwing that type of shade on someone without following it up is pretty nonsensical as town

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I feel slightly more strongly in the other things I've observed than dealing with a slot making noise for the sake of making noise and if I'm wrong on koba/TL then it becomes apparent anyway.

Oh shit, I didn't realise you had solved the game.

You wanna elim TL?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: TL

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This guy puts his money where his mouth is.

Who else is down?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Will read up properly on this tonight

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm trying to read up on this game but all of the meta references make it extremely difficult.

Up to page 11 with very little in terms of reads. So, yeah.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So far, TL.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Take prob scum, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm still reading to be honest. I am trying to catch up from the back while reading from the front too if that makes sense.

All of the meta talk makes it a very difficult game to get into. I was (still am?) scum reading Furtive I think, not sure what all the early town reads were about.

Take feels like scum over the past couple of pages. Has that newbscum feeling of knowing a flip will be town, you know? Like defending it enough to be like 'Haha, told you!' but not so much where he comes under pressure for it? Just sits in that sweet spot

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll probably get around to it if I haven't glossed over it already. I'm around page 15 (when I came into the game)

This might seem silly, but the main thing that stuck out to me was him trying to discredit a town read 104

I never really understand why town concern themselves with other people's town reads (unless said person scum reads the same person or course)

Motive for scum is obvious enough.

After this, I just don't see much that is AI from him and that usually means they're scum playing carefully not to lean one way or another too much.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm scum because OMGUS, Furtive? Or you got something you wanna share?

Also, why would scum!Koba, out of all the players, choose town!LeRea to give a fake early read to? Also also, scum can explain town reads easily because more game info, you know?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Weak read and weak explanation as expected.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I dont think furtive's explaination was weak

That's because all you do is talk about meta. Of course you wouldn't think it's weak.

But it is. Especially as I know the conclusion to be wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Weak read and weak explanation as expected.

I don't know why you're pushing me at this stage of the game. Focus on today's vote. You said earlier you would vote TL over Bell, what about Bell vs HEM?

Because HEM asked where I was and that's what I had.

I'm still good with TL but I think did some posting recently that I haven't read yet.

Also, Take is prob scum. So, there's that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There is not much to say considering he's been completely absent the whole game. Its really frustrating having a third of the players either being non-existant or not reading the game despite day 1 nearly being over.

You've previously had enough to say about LaRea despite them not being very active throughout the game.

What's changed? Do you still town read them?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why would I vote you?

Your CC was dumb as fuck and you should probably be elimmed for that though.

If you help me elim Furtive, we're all good

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't think scum make that play. More likely to come from arrogant town.

Although I guess arrogant scum is a thing too. Koba does like to replicate his meta after all

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You haven't played Mafia long enough to see the dumb shit town do. Especially arrogant town.

I have seen plenty of town fake CC to try and force through their own read. I agree though, it's terrible and he should probably be elimmed for it.

I just feel like Koba could be useful if he's town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can people start voting Furtive with me now, please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You haven't played Mafia long enough to see the dumb shit town do. Especially arrogant town.

I have seen plenty of town fake CC to try and force through their own read. I agree though, it's terrible and he should probably be elimmed for it.

I just feel like Koba could be useful if he's town.

I mean i have confidence i have solved the game atp- and recognize i need to be resolved

You scum read me for the majority of the game so I'm sure you understand I don't share your confidence

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Are we elimming Furtive yet?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He is?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How so?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Koba is all over the place here

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's a disgusting question.

Pre-flip associatives are complete yack.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Koba, tell me about how you're town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Confirmed scum because awful CC.

Why look for partners? Wait to see what happens after your flip and N1 actions, no?

But you're not doing anything to box scum in? Just AtE to everyone to give you time.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's a good vote.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Koba, your % reads are shot to shit in this game. Stop doing that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Even if you're honest, your reads have been way off.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah but that could very easily be an attempt to appease/pocket me.

You were almost certain I was scum at one point. Your reaction only changed because I didn't insta hammer. If you insist on Scum!BBT you likely get hammered and you know that

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can anyone answer me why they aren't considering Bell at all btw - considering yknow

they are the most obvious scum in the room and they have a polarized meta and one can literally just read a game from them and see?

like in case you dont believe me here is me sniping bell early game and then bell posts out of it (because he is evolved as a scum player now and is not as easy) : viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89010

Did you though?

You SR Bell based on meta

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, but the idea is that expressing ideas can gain you unvotes, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, you probably don't have to worry about me.

I'm highly unlikely to be on any wagon that elims you today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, I guess we can elim Furtive while we wait.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I understand you don't want it to happen.

But it's going to, so...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Except he hasn't referenced his own meta for doing stuff like this, has he?

I can't defend the CC because it's horrific.

HEM, if not Koba, who?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think HEM's shift in tact after Furtive saw a slight uptick in chance of being eliminated to call me mafia after having tried to position himself in a way to say "i knew koba was town!"

This didn't happen?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah but that was after Furtive 'scum slipped'.

So, even after the higher risk of Furtive being elimmed, he still posted about town Koba doing fake claims.

I just don't understand the idea behind posting that to still scum read you anyway?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Interesting.

You really don't think scum!BBT defends what looks like a slam dunk town!Koba elim?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I should have held on to that entrance meta that I pointed out at the start, it is accurate.

I almost voted you after reading that sentence.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Because I think they're town

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Furtive, talk to me about anything other than Koba

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh shit, you think you're that highly TR...fuck me.

You can pick the topic. I asked first.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Fuck me, the more I read that CC the worse it gets.

Is scum Koba trying to out a potential Doc? Is he just hoping it's C1 and no-one else is aware.

Fuckkkkkk

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's just so fucking careless as scum though

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't know what terf island is.

Apologies, I'm not intentionally doing it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't have 3 town reads.

Skill issue.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You wouldn't need to.

Your post implies enough to draw what you need.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Koba Because your ego tells you that you have to game solve before you die?

@HEM - I don't feel like your posting is genuine at all.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Well town reads is a bit boring isn't it. Given scum's knowledge of the game.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How are people saying that I'm not genuine when I articulate their reads before they say they have those reads

I think it's because almost all of your posts feel pockety/buddy like

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you think Koba is scum outside of the CC HEM?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Outside of the CC I'm seeing OMGUS... Tell me I'm wrong?

Can you link me real quick to that leg work you did for the whole Bell/TL thing?

Koba town reading me is freaking me out. I'm almost always scum read by players who don't know me

[BlueBloodedToffee]

as it turns out im kinda decent at mafia when I dont scumread the whole masonry

Yeah, as I said, I am overly suspicious of town reads on me. Although, you were scum reading me before I didn't hammer you. So that fits I guess.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

this was when HEM was at risk of elimination

yeah, no. if furtive flips scum HEM is almost surely their scumbuddy

I don't do pre-flips, but yeah, that's a solid spot.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I fear we're making this game impossible for the newer players to keep up with.

35 page day one in a newbie. Fuck me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And too difficult for me given we're on page 39...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How is it a certainty?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Furtive comes across as extremely anxious to get this wagon through.

Like, if it's as obvious as he says it is, why is he so worried? Because, if Koba doesn't get elimmed, then the attention almost definitely goes Furtive's way.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll tell you my reason why. The claim was way too messy.

I think scum take their time to ensure their CC is a lock - town rush into bad decisions like that quickly without thinking it through.

I think Koba is an impulsive player so I can't rule it out completely that he spewed as scum, but yeah, there's my reason.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm the worst player in the world if Koba is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Could do with a VC

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why am I the only one seeing it though? Literally nobody else agrees

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Furtive/HEM seems pretty likely

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Won't be much talking needed my friend.

I'm insta voting you D2 and will be doing so for the whole Day.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wait, what?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How about unvoting?

More VCs are needed in this game. Impossible to keep up

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: Furtive

No CW to scum!Koba this entire time by the way.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Mod - Linked posts next to most recent votes/unvotes are incorrect.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I guess we all need to learn in a newbie

HEM, not unvoting is basically a scum claim.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right.

Because you can't risk attention moving towards Furtive if Koba wagon doesn't go through.

I understand.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll hammer Koba if I have to.

Would much prefer Furtive though.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I mean, it would progress if the other players could get in here and vote you.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That reaction from Furtive felt town.

Fuck me, what is this game.

Intent to hammer.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aww man, the slightest sign of me hammering and you turn like that?

If Koba is scum I can only profusely apologise. He played me.

VOTE: Koba

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Your reaction to being voted felt town

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If Mod post comes before my post I don't hammer BTW.

Kind of annoying but whatever.

Pedit - It wasn't me who voted you. It was HEM.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I meant your freak out after HEM voted you though

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: HEM

No way he didn't read Koba as town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I hammered because I panicked about time (yes there was Slight doubt too). I was pretty vocal about being against the Koba wagon and was the only (?) one to do so I believe?

You really should have been able to read Koba as town and I won't be removing my vote off of you Today.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I guess we all need to learn in a newbie

HEM, not unvoting is basically a scum claim.

Right.

Because you can't risk attention moving towards Furtive if Koba wagon doesn't go through.

I understand.

I'll hammer Koba if I have to.

Would much prefer Furtive though.

Why am I the only one seeing it though? Literally nobody else agrees

I'll tell you my reason why. The claim was way too messy.

I think scum take their time to ensure their CC is a lock - town rush into bad decisions like that quickly without thinking it through.

I think Koba is an impulsive player so I can't rule it out completely that he spewed as scum, but yeah, there's my reason.

It's just so fucking careless as scum though

I mean, you probably don't have to worry about me.

I'm highly unlikely to be on any wagon that elims you today.

You haven't played Mafia long enough to see the dumb shit town do. Especially arrogant town.

I have seen plenty of town fake CC to try and force through their own read. I agree though, it's terrible and he should probably be elimmed for it.

I just feel like Koba could be useful if he's town.

I don't think scum make that play. More likely to come from arrogant town.

Although I guess arrogant scum is a thing too. Koba does like to replicate his meta after all

Why would I vote you?

Your CC was dumb as fuck and you should probably be elimmed for that though.

If you help me elim Furtive, we're all good

My position on Koba was pretty clear.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

There is no assume about it. I'm town as fuck as it's super obvious.

Of course I chose elim over no elim - you know no elim is awful. I was sure enough to fight EVERYONE on the wagon for as long as I could. Point invalid.

I tried to go for Furtive - my ISO shows that again. So your point is invalid. Again.

You had no reasons to scum read Koba and used the opportunity of his horrific CC to push him because you knew he would be pushing for your elim and you didn't want that.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Apologies for calling Koba 'him' again. I'm so bad at remembering pronouns

[BlueBloodedToffee]

So OMGUS? Like, you elimmed someone because you didn't want to be pushed.

Scum motive.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't say OMGUS was alignment indicative - I said that sums up your push on Koba.

I don't care for meta in the slightest. Yeah, your push on Koba was pretty scummy, I would have to agree with Koba there.

There is simply no way you were not town reading Koba after we all thought they got hammered. Just no way.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Koba can definitely fake something like that what do you mean

Yeah, but even before that I was town reading him so...yeah, I felt like you really should have picked up that Koba was town at some point.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Take, can you vote HEM please?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Other than that, if you think about it, if my goal was to elim Koba... why do the hassle of switching to furtive and make myself look scummy?

The switch didn't last long enough to do anything.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

They rebuffed you because they were so sure you are scum. Once they committed to this, you couldn't afford to let Koba live.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Take Momentum

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not true.

The more you talk and talk, especially with your posting style, the more likely it is you will talk your way out of being elimmed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

That's not how I play scum. And you know that so to paint it as the only way to play scum is manipulative at worst.

You needed Koba out the game or they elim you. If you're town, you really shouldn't care about this and go on to try and find scum. There is no way town!HEM doesn't TR Koba by end of D1. I'm not having it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yes, and that is better because I am town.

In reality, I will never be able to talk myself out of an elimination like this in a clear rational logical manner if I'm scum here. If I'm scum here, I would have turned on the Appeal to Emotion at an eleven because I will not have the facts on my side.

I have the facts on my side. I don't think I have ever lied or misrepresented what isn't already in my iso.

Like this. It's a very townie sounding post without actually saying anything. You're very non-confrontational and that style works well in Newbies because reasonable.

Are you saying you wouldn't have the foresight to produce a reasonable defence as scum once you set your sights on elimming Koba?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

VOTE: HEM

No way he didn't read Koba as town.

This is me confronting you.

Don't act like it's the other way around.

Your posts are very 'nice' and 'reaosnable' in the way you write. As I said, this would work favourably in Newbies games (regardless of your alignment). I think you know this style of posting will get you town reads.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm saying that yes. I won't have a reasonable defense but a defense based on a warped reality and hyperbole. Where's has that been in my posts?

And your defence isn't reasonable because your reasons for elimming Koba are awful - as we have already discussed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Two people can confront each other. You're confronting me, I'm confronting you. That's what people call a confrontation.
If you're saying my posts are "very nice" and "reasonable" and this makes me scum... Then you have no case.

Nice misrep.

That's not what I said.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It was. You saw Koba was set on elimming you and you couldn't have that.

You knew you had a good enough reason to push him that people had latched onto and you took the opportunity.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's exactly what you said. The rest is an assumption. Why couldn't I just be someone who wants to be nicer in newbies AND town? Because that's what I am.

I said regardless of your alignment. So I didn't say 'nice and reasonable = scum'

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Okay, and if I was scum, why would I do that instead of eliminating someone else? Especially since Koba was nowhere near convincing anyone to scumread me and it only takes backing off to pocket Koba?

The answer is I will only do that if I was town. I scumread Koba and see that it's the right opportunity to get them out of the game — as it normally should be. Just earlier you were trying to motivate Take into voting me and putting me at a hammer's distance. You had a good reason that people can latch onto and you're taking the opportunity. Does that make you scum? Tell me

Because you don't want to get elimmed, I guess? Scum dying on D1 is an absolute disaster and you just couldn't take that risk. An assumption made by you that you could pocket Koba that easily.

Your scum read was bad and the reasoning was bad. You're right, I do have a good reason to scum read you that I hope people latch onto. Hopefully your flip will show that they were right to trust me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm willing to bank the game on a red HEM flip.

I understand I get elimmed D3 if I'm wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT all your arguments have been overturned.

Simply not true.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's not about 'hate' HEM. You just rolled scum, shit happens.

In the slim chance BBT is town...oh yeah, let's do this shit right now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RCE, what does being transparent have to do with anything alignment indicative?

Just for clarification, you're town reading HEM?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am town reading HEM yes. Transparency is important for town to gauge other town. Scum by nature of their win condition are not transparent. Since being privy to their genuine mind state betrays their intention and game plan. Pegging koba as scum who went on to CC town mason!Bell is not a bizarre read for town to make.

Hitting Bell who ended up being not!VT was not a bizarre read for town to make, the same goes for Take.

Scum can appear transparent, no? Like, HEMs push on Koba yesterday as scum is completely viable and his reasoning for doing so would need no alteration regardless of his alignment. Do you agree with this?

I believe scum reading Koba was bizarre. I made these same points yesterday, nothing has changed.

I have no idea what your reference to Bell means.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Rad, how do you think you play this as scum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm arguing that town!HEM realises Koba is town, yeah.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm arguing that town!HEM realises Koba is town, yeah.

And what about Furtive and myself?

Furtive came across as scum at first until his reaction to being voted. That felt town but meh.

I guess you could be scum. Sure.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Three scum?

Is your maths OK? Also, because there are only two scum, are you suggesting you can only have two scum reads maximum?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Not really.

There were only really two slots 'pushing' Koba IMO - HEM and Furtive.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, it isn't.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Take is confirmed town sooooo yeah... You want me to push them?

You and Koba had history, you both liked referencing this. I would expect town!HEM to read Koba as town there. It really is as simple as that.

Also, RCE can be scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Where you at Furtive?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Rad, if you think TL/HEM make sense, we should elim HEM first I think.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can't be in the scum pool, I told you this already. I'm town as fuck.

Plus, you know, your red flip clears me

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You don't rate Rad's case on TL, HEM?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I've already said I take responsibility for your elim. I literally said I understand I will be elimmed D3 if I'm wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I can go Furtive.

His insistence on the Koba elim still rings badly to me.

Apologies for pushing HEM so hard, I kind of trusted Koba's read there more than anything else. So that's my bad.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Someone needs to talk to me about the TL town reads as well

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Furtive I'll happily 1v1 you right now.

Don't threaten a vote. Do it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BBT what's your read on TL? I'm still reading furtive as obvtown. I don't think my TL case depended at all on HEM. The team connections came later as I started to re-read through HEM. Everyone read HEM as scum this game except RCE so I felt pretty confident that he would flip red. Even TL read him as scum earlier and backed off at 551.

I'm unsure on TL, he doesn't have a whole lot to go off.

I think you're scum though? So there's that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Rad, what about Furtive is obvtown?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Damn, Rad is prob scum

Lining up the elims Yesterday wasn't he...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He had to tunnel that hard because of Koba wasn't elimmed, the attention was going Furtive's way.

Do you remember that?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Emotion doesn't equal town either. Furtive could have been frustrated because he thought Koba would be an easy mislim and then when he realised it wasn't and attention could be going his way, he lost it. Scum being elimmed on D1 is disastrous so his overreaction fits that.

I initially read his reaction as town myself, but I'm not so sure now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And consistent = town because?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, fake emotion because instead of 'I almost insta voted you' if the emotion was legit you would just do it, no?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I feel like we're about to delve into a conversation we've had before here.

It's pretty easy for scum to overreact to things I think. Scum don't usually vote first in ELo either, it's far too risky.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You just planted a seed in that post as well.

I don't like that at all

[BlueBloodedToffee]

While I’m doing that, BBT what was the deal with your entrance? Like I still don’t get what the showiness was about.

Just how I like to enter.

Catching up can be boring and keeps you out of the loop for a while. I enter like that regardless of alignment though, scum because it's fun and town because it gets me relevant and I can start working off of interactions

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think the 3 town remaining are me/Rad/TL. This might not go well, considering TL's activity level.

This is scum trying to form a fake town block in ELo... Incase people were wondering.

Towning their likely partner and including the third (town) almost as a buddy technique. Us vs them kind of thing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

LAMIST

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm quite impulsive and likely to vote you soon. So, yeah, we'll see how that goes won't we

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Huh, HEMs wagon was all town? That's a scary thought...

Although LeRea wasn't really active. How did Furtive react around that wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ok I see your point. I think the difference in my mind is that right now I have you/TL/whiskey's replacement in my scumpool of 3 (however wrong that may be), whereas you have everyone but LeRea and Take (and possibly me, I'm not sure).

This was Furtive's pool when HEM was being pushed. He WK'ed the HEM wagon

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I completely agree with you. It was like.....oh I'm alive guys.....who we voting.......this guy........yeah I'll put him at E-1/2 (can't remember which).

I think other people townread TL earlier and I'm not sure why.

Yeah, I agreed earlier in the game with RC that TL's drop-ins were 'wolfy' but now I'd like to keep them in for a bit.

If people won't do Bell, I'll consider switching to BBT but I'd prefer Bell.

Talk about this change in read on TL, Furtive?

Something about Furtive's reads/opinions on TL feels way off on D1. Furtive also kept giving options on D1 that have turned out to be TvT (at least to me)

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think RC/Bell/LaRea are all town. Calling it now. Take always starts beef, I think the argument with HEM is a bit stupid and doesn't help me read them. I don't townread either player. TL the Legend is barely here and whiskey just left. Koba is my one suspect.

You're townreading too many players, with often not enough justification, and no one else really gives sus vibes. If the scumteam isn't TL/whiskey('s replacement), I can't see one without you.

'You' in this post is Koba

Ok I see your point. I think the difference in my mind is that right now I have you/TL/whiskey's replacement in my scumpool of 3

BBT would you rather TL the Legend or Bell gets eliminated today?

Furtive weighing up whether to support me or not depending on how I choose?

I asked that because those are my two preferred options. You can vote whoever you want

TL has been a 'suspect' for Furtive for a while now but he hasn't done a single thing about it.

Yeah, I agreed earlier in the game with RC that TL's drop-ins were 'wolfy' but now I'd like to keep them in for a bit.

If people won't do Bell, I'll consider switching to BBT but I'd prefer Bell.

Then, all of a sudden, TL gets dropped (I need to check what TL posted in this time frame) and from my perspective Furtive presents two town choices he is willing to vote.

I think there's at least one mafia in Bell/BBT. I can't see both being town.

Same again, both town choices.

I don't know why you're pushing me at this stage of the game. Focus on today's vote. You said earlier you would vote TL over Bell, what about Bell vs HEM?

Now Bell and HEM, both town again.

I think either BBT or Koba today then.

Two town again.

As I'm sure you'll appreciate, this only comes into play from my own conf bias perspective. Consider my staunch defence of Koba on D1 though and whether I would do that as scum. I know I ended up hammering but I've explained that as best as I can.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The progression on TL makes 0 sense to me and it's never been revisited. Even in ELo, Furtive comes straight out with - 'Rad, TL, myself are the three town'.

For someone he sussed so much in the early game, he has never reevaluated this read.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Except you.

You just came out in ELo like 'Yeah, TL is so town like me and Rad'

[BlueBloodedToffee]

By declaring you know the scum team immediately? That wasn't a footing, that was an attempt at us vs them.

Also, between your wanting TL elimmed and then not, they posted a reads-list (which isn't great) followed by a reading ranking (which of course you were one of their top town reads) and then their scum reads were myself, Take and Bell. All town again.

Interesting? Or not?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ah, but that is how town approach ELo, is it not?

Scum come in with a narrative they try to push - which is what you have done. Before realising your mistake and trying to rectify.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

And then immediately backtracked

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Huh? I was the main person pushing Koba as scum day 1 pre-CC and it was over TL even though that was the pairing I thought likely. Larea was even the compromise elim I tried to bring to take’s attention when they were barreling into HEM day 1 because I thought both were town and town on town was disruptive. I can’t remember if it was before or after masons were outed.

The exact team has to be me/BBT or I’m just unaligned with the slots in this MeLo.

This simply isn't true. I don't understand why you couldn't be scum with LaRea(Rad), TL or Furtive.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Someone needs to talk to me about the TL town reads as well

Waiting on this

[BlueBloodedToffee]

RCE, I would like you to be town and to trust that I am town.

How does that sound?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm also pretty set on the solve being Rad/Furtive so, yeah, any thoughts on that?

TL really shouldn't be in ELo though and they need to start producing something.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

What do you make of 488 and 510?

Pedit - I think Rad has come in chasing the LHF as well? He mentions Furtive is his strongest town read which means you or myself have to be scum to him. He appears to think it's you between the two of us but I don't see him pushing it too hard?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I also think a Furtive flip pretty much clears both of us

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'll talk more about that post-game, but I didn't expect HEM to get elimmed so quickly and I was hoping to work some reads from it. There is no way we should have got to D3 with so little from two players. That's my bad though, and as I said, once my alignment is known in end-game you will see this is genuine.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I am pretty impulsive though and find it difficult to refrain from voting Furtive right now.

I'll hold for TL though

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hammer testing is always fun haha, I agree though, probably not in the Newbie Queue

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm happy to risk it and vote Furtive though...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Do you see TL being scum? When I ISO'd him I kind of did a little bit?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I just need to see more to get a better read.

I really didn't like his reads list post

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Oh shit, we're doing it? Let's goooooo...

Could they be with Furtive?

Furtive has had the freedom of the game in terms of not having to interact with his partner...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't think it matters who they target?

One of us makes it into the next Day and it's easy from there

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I agree. I would expect town!Rad to assess the game a lot better and not just immediately jump onto the biggest push in the game.

I don't think town!Rad hammers anywhere near as quickly as that either

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah, I was hoping for a clear. Probably should have stopped posting

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's usually the other way around actually.

Scum are much more active when the elim pool is much bigger. As the pool narrows, scum become much less active as they become easier to notice.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Just to be clear Furtive, you think scum team is TL and RC?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

In terms of pairings, I don't think BBT and RC are aligned any more. I think it's TL and RC/BBT.

What?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Talk me through that, would you?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah but how and why did they change?

Also, surely you understand the premise of scum wanting to win ELo and so they town read each other to avoid having to push each other? Like, that's definitely a thing. Especially with someone like TL around for one of you to push.

In saying that, you don't have a problem with Rad pushing TL?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

This is a bad situation. It's TL/RC. Right? Or not. I hard townread Rad for some reason.

Given you don't know why you 'hard townread Rad', how come you haven't reevaluated this read?

I think the 3 town remaining are me/Rad/TL. This might not go well, considering TL's activity level.

Your reads are sticky. You came in with these reads (without real reason) and despite some floundering have ended up back in the exact same position.

Almost like it was planned...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You guys are all really active. I want to eliminate HEM, BBT and RCEnigma back to back. I think that's a town win.

Shocking elim pool.

By the way, Furtive was super happy to let HEM take all the heat for the Koba elim.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You haven't answered how or why your reads have changed? Why aren't you trying to talk your town read off of elimming someone you town read?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You're avoiding literally all of my questions....

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I didn't say that's why you voted HEM.

But, unless I am misremembering, I pushed HEM hard on not being able to read Koba as town. RC pushed back on me, I don't believe you did?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

How and why your reads have changed?

Why you haven't talked Rad off of your townread? (TL)

Why haven't you reevaluated your Rad townread given you said yourself you don't know why you hard town read him?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, so you came into Today town reading TL - what changed?

So you're gut reading someone, on page 58, and you're not even contemplating reevaluating that read? That's what you're saying?

Also, why haven't you cross voted RC?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I know Rad will find that suspicious...

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm waiting for TL like I said. There's no rush to vote. If it's you and Rad then we lose, but it's not, so we're fine.

Thoughts on this Rad when you get here please...

Also, you STILL haven't explained what has changed in your TL read from start of D3 to now.

How have you evaluated his play when you just said you have a hard town read, based on gut, on page 58?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you talk about why RC is scum when you get around to answering some questions as well please, Furtive?