Newbie 2115 - Game Over

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KAWAII LITERALLY JUST VOTE PYTHON
the more you think the more you're going to believe them, and then you vote me and throw the game

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like this has been dragged on long enough, python's just been regurgitating the same points about how vox "pocketed" me to seperate us and how my vote on bella was bad or whatever
it's far more likely that python and vox planned it out

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like are you kidding me all of vox's posts were openwolfing and i actually believed him for a moment there
of cours eim gonan fuckin hammer him

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SO MUCH FOR BEING YOUR TOWN SPIRIT ANIMAL SMH VOX

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anyways good night fellas, kawaii i do hope you place your vote on python
i dunno about you but i absolutely want to win and python's just taking a step in their partner's footsteps here like this is just openwolfing

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like are you kidding me all of vox's posts were openwolfing and i actually believed him for a moment there
of cours eim gonan fuckin hammer him

HUH??? If Vox is openwolfing why tf would you believe him???

IN HINDSIGHT i see it as openwolfing BUT AT THE TIME he was manipulating me

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Hey Kawaii, what's more likely? scum!Python throws a perfectly good Bella/Python/patch endgame by telling AV to try to pocket patch (And keep in mind I

know

you're FN and that Bella was FN'd, so AV always gets limmed there) or AV pulls the d3 theater so that patch can survive a patch/Python/Kawaii endgame

former

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you can't calculate probabilities in mafia games, that's just pointless

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i literally hammered vox what

Yeah, before Bella could come back and call out the theater for what it is

Why would patch hammer Vox as scum? That's what I fail to get
Hammering Vox does not implicate patch as scum even if they knew Bella was on V/LA
Like you don't know Bella will call it theatre, how do you know how Bella will react?

fucking exactly
and also ii didn't even know bella was on v/la nor did i consider that she was visited by kawaii (kawaii never dropped night actions)
as scum hammering vox would be playing against my own wincon (and if i were scum, why would vox pocket me?????)

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wait kawaii did you visit bella n2? you never sai dif you did or not

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Bella will always confirm the FN visit at which point AV always gets limmed there because it's mechanically impossible for him to be Jailkeeper with three people claiming an FN exists, what don't you understand about that?

he got limmed despite bella not confirming fn visit though

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Kawaii doesn't have to drop night actions. You weren't FN'd so you know Bella was FN'd

does catboi not exist??? why would kawaii fn bella twice in a row

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kowah* sorry pal

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like what ur saying here is that my hammer on vox was bad because bella needed to confirm fn visit... but why the fuck would kawaii visit bella both n2 and n3

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is that not the only reason why you're trying to lim me? kind of strange that there's such a gaping hole.

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like what ur saying here is that my hammer on vox was bad because bella needed to confirm fn visit... but why the fuck would kawaii visit bella both n2 and n3

Bella doesn't get visited n3, Kawaii either stays home or visits you

how do you know that

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Kawaii doesn't have to drop night actions. You weren't FN'd so you know Bella was FN'd

does catboi not exist??? why would kawaii fn bella twice in a row

kowah* sorry pal

Kawaii knows AV is scum meaning they know Kowah is town because AV rolecopped them according to the Tracker, why would you FN the conftown that's gonna get nightkilled anyways

i dont fucking know
but idk all this ambiguity abotu night actions that i clearly don't know could've been cleared up pretty easily if kawaii just. told them to us??? like how the fuck was i supposed to know bella got visited n2

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like on d3 i didnt know and i didnt know until just now ?????? like this hinges on the assumption that a) you somehow know kawaii's night actions and b) i also know kawaii's night actions
the thing is.. i dunno how YOU know them but i certainly did not

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anyways i'm going to bed because i need to stop fucking up my sleep schedule byyyeee

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okay python sorry i'm dumb then idk how to respond ot this

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Python this is so scummy lmao
Now that kawaii’s actions have been revealed you’re just pivoting to another narrative that you can push me with? I literally wasn’t even informed and why would scum!me push a confirmed pr
Literally all of your reactions are so fake…
also kawaii r you actually using vibereads on d4

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Like I don’t probe into night actions unless it’s necessary, in this case it was just vox v kawaii and night actions can’t solve that lol

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Now I'm wondering if I missed something that would indicate you stay home n2, cause what the hell why does patch's stance of AV buddying patch only make sense if you didn't visit

Wait why the hell am I taking patch at their word here. AV was pulling WIFOM to make patch look townie not buddying town, how the hell would anyone predict Kawaii staying home n2

I dunno why I’m taking you at your word either

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literally kawaii please
theyre like "you're pr hunting" but what reason do i have to trust a fn claim when there are two outed prs (vox and pod) and it could easily be a play from scum to get an easy hang on vox
i doubted that there was actually a fn so that's why i asked for a claim

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also funny how they ignore my post about meta, huh? out of all the things they don't respond to, it's that. it's because they don't want to bring up the fact that my play in this game is nothing like my playstyle as scum.

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like the thing is, i can't respond to this narrative. it would be possible if i were scum, but i'm not. it looks logical, but i'm not scum. it literally just doesn't work. the fact that they pivot from "patch hammered early because they were informed about kawaii's visit so they could prevent bella from posting and calling av out on the 'pocketing'" to "patch hammered early because they were informed about kawaii's night actions so they could prevent bella from posting a readlist" or whatever
like ????? one i don't give a shit about night actions unless it can obviously help solve the game (in this case it was 1 outed pr versus a scum pretending to be a pr). i didnt need to focus on night actions because they literally dont matter to me. in this case hammering vox hammered scum so it doesn't matter, two, as scum i wouldn't hammer vox. it plays against wincon. bella LITERALLY townread vox. i literally could have just voted kawaii at some point and helped vox convince bella to vote kawaii. as python said, "why would i go for a much harder route?" (paraphrased, i forget the exact wording). i may be dumb to the point where i can't read into night actions, but i'm not stupid enough to not know that hammering my partner is bad. third, bella was on v/la. i did not know bella was on v/la. it's my bad for not waiting, but i realized that vox was actively manipulating me (look at those posts!) and hammered him before he could sway my perspective more. smh vox.
i think that's all i have to say about these scenarios. they're dumb and stupid and python is scum.

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like okay nice play python but i know it's you
it's literally you

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and in fact kawaii you shouldn't just be taking information that python spoonfeeds to you
look at the entire game and their play
in fact part of vox's meta is BUSSING PARTNERS and his early vote on python and then a switch to you obviously looks like they're paired, that's literally what he does

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i swear it on my honor as a mafia player that im town
and it might not mean much ig but i really don't know what to resort to to convince you
honestly i'm afraid you're just gonna vote me and throw

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i hammered vox because we were goign in circles and if i didn't he'd just manipulate me into thinking i was town. i didnt want to wait and i also kind of forgot bella existed. sorry bella

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typo how do i drop words so easily *going in circles a lot, *he was town

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he'd just manipulate me into thinking i was town

You not town?
pedit: Yeah that's why I thought you hammered Vox, potential scumslip?

how would he manipulate me into thinking im scum was just a typo, when i type fast i tend to drop words and substitute

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i hammered vox because we were goign in circles and if i didn't he'd just manipulate me into thinking i was town. i didnt want to wait and i also kind of forgot bella existed. sorry bella

How did you forget bella existed? She was mentioned multiple times iirc

Idfk she just wasn't in the thread

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All

Kawaii's

patch's

been doing is going on the defense because they know they don't really have much to push me on and then shading me when I inevitably get part of the solve wrong because I have to convert a mechanical solve into a reads solve

EBWOP

Yeah obviously there’s not much to push you with, you’ve been perfectly towny the entire damn game

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Like I don’t probe into night actions unless it’s necessary, in this case it was just vox v kawaii and night actions can’t solve that lol

Probing into night actions

was

necessary in a town!Patch game because it explains the entire game. To town!patch if Bella denied the FN visit it wasn't Vox vs Kawaii but Vox/Bella vs Kawaii/Python, night action analysis is necessary to sort that. The reason it's just vox vs kawaii to you is because you

don't

have to sort that. You already know AV is scum and Kawaii is town, that's why you never bothered looking into the further implications of AV's d3 play

Not really I was just lazy and didn’t care lmao

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in this case hammering vox hammered scum so it doesn't matter, two, as scum i wouldn't hammer vox. it plays against wincon. bella LITERALLY townread vox.

It's not playing against your wincon because the reasonable expectation is that Kawaii FN'd Bella and she'd confirm it (because you know Bella is town), there is no universe where AV doesn't get limmed d3 in that case. Stop playing dumb, stop making excuses, and I swear to god if you try to pull the "I'm bad at mech" or "I didn't do night action analysis" card for why you didn't know Bella should be getting FN'd n2 after 951 did your job for you then I'm just done

okay scum

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Not really I was just lazy and didn’t care lmao

Yeah cause you already knew the answer

No

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As fun as sniping at each other is, it's not helping Kawaii to solve.

Kawaii what specific problems do you have with a patch/AV solve and what specific points do you need addressed to rule out a Python/AV solve?

The solve is you

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Oh my god I really regret not reading that game earlier lmao

also lorne are you pocketing me????

Yes

????????

(They were both scum)

lol lorne wasn't talking to me at all in pt

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Oh my god I really regret not reading that game earlier lmao

also lorne are you pocketing me????

Yes

????????

(They were both scum)

lol lorne wasn't talking to me at all in pt

Why you mentioning pt at all if town is not in it?

because that game there were hoods and also scum daytalk

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my "lorne are you pocketing me" was sort of a silent "please talk to me in pt" think, whereas this game vox was like. actually pocketing me. lorne was not pocketing at all lol

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Ok got the posts

wait wait guys no don't hammer

sky is my hood partner and she's 100% town don't hammer

i refrained from saying this before but i'm confident that this is a mishang and you shouldn't

also that wagon built up far too quickly and really unnatural i think there's at least one scum on there, maybe furtive, and aureal put sky at e-1 without announcing it ????
and yes you should trust my judgement here, i know my play hasn't been the best this game but sky is very towny to me and all of the hood interactions i've had with her read as towny so please don't hammer
like this is really the only read i'm 100% confident on, do not hammer

I'm neutral on Sky.

I don't like the speed of the wagon either.

But the timing is weird. Patch, why did you refrain and wait until the wagon got ran up to E-1?

because when it was just furtive and lorne i didn't think it would be that much of an issue because lorne was inactive and furtive was doing absolutely nothing, so i wouldn't need to out as being in a hood with her, but then when i left all of a sudden she's at e-1

Like when I read these posts as they were happening I was like "yeah patch town" (I was wrong )

but you knew it was my scumgame....?

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oh okay

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so about meta. does this game look anything like that? not reallyu

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sadly im afraid to tell you that if i were scum id probably care more about this game

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sadly im afraid to tell you that if i were scum id probably care more about this game

You seemed about as invested in this game as I am this dayphase, and I'd say I'm pretty invested?

not really, i do care now but i didn't really before

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sadly im afraid to tell you that if i were scum id probably care more about this game

You don't care about this game? All you've done is demonstrate your care in this dp, same with python, though I admit that python has played a stellar game, giving it a lot of attention/care

just this day phase

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python do u have any scumgames (asides from this one)?

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kawaii i hope you come to the right conclusion

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python you are beautifully manipulative and now all of these night kills make sense. you and vox were taking me to endgame for a reason, weren't you two?

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fuck, i can't even push you. kawaii's just going to believe you because everything you've done this game has been carefully laid-out. we lose.

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fuck, i can't even push you. kawaii's just going to believe you because everything you've done this game has been carefully laid-out. we lose.

Like the reason you're having such a hard time pushing me isn't because I'm some mastermind who calculated everyones every move since d1, it's actually much simpler than that.

We both know the full setup is:

• Kawaii - FN

• Python - VT

• patch - Goon

The reason I'm able to scumcase you so well and you can't scumcase me at all is because I know you're scum and that lets me take all the information that would normally be NAI or point to multiple people to create a coherent picture of what patch/AV were going for this game. You know I'm town though so you don't have that same ability

python you are literally scum

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ive literally said the exact same thhings over and over but they've just kept getting ignored
just fuckign hammer me already im too tired of this

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UNVOTE: patch
VOTE: AV

I can confirm FN exists

UNVOTE: AV

Gonna look at this in the morning

lulw

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okay time to continue scrolling through iso

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also like??? who the heck is friendly neighbor lol if someone were to just out here it'd be so much easier to hunt

patch and Kawaii, can you two elaborate on your d2 reads? patch just had a naked vote with 0 explanation before AV even did the mech wall and all Kawaii had to say is that "JK > Tracker in value"

i literally don't have reads anymore im just bruteforcing with logic at this point

me, bella, you, kk, and vox are alive
...oh fuck if i live to day 4 this is gonna be really hard
um

pedit: oh
yeah
fair

HAHAHA i was so right

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yeah i think that's about everything before d4 that pinged me
though there was quite a lot of distancing if im viewing it right, the d2 vote on vox and then unvote literally two posts after (in their iso), and just not revoting... taking their sweet time to vote vox on d3 etc
and then there was the earlygame sussing of catboi (who so happened to be attacking vox)
note that vox busses as scum this is what he does and it's literally his meta lol. he has done just that with python too

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idfk

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i dont know how to convince you i know ive done a lot of scummy things this game and ive made a lot of misplays but i know for a fact that python is scum
if you're town then it's just python really

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Does nothing exist to scumcase python outside of python/AV setting you up to the endgame?

YES???? python has been towny the entire game and i townread them up until late d3 or night 3

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I needed to hear your progression for the pod vote, in what world is voting 24 hours after the day starts "taking my sweet time"? Also just noticed you should have realized Bella was V/LA when I posted

"when they come back" =/= vla lol. it's not an argument its literally the fuckin truth.

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i dont really have any questions maybe except please hammer yourself

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does it look like i care

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Does nothing exist to scumcase python outside of python/AV setting you up to the endgame?

YES???? python has been towny the entire game and i townread them up until late d3 or night 3

Ik that's why I see python as town, python is only scum in your pov by poe, I have 0 reason to believe python is scum, convince me

i had zero reason as well until you and i both survived and it had to be them

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i literally cannot convince you; i am so drained from both this game and irl things and i don't want to half-ass it but i really don't have the motivation to actually case them. literally the only reason i have is "i am town, you are town, so they must be scum".

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this vc has been the exact same for literally the entire day and that's kind of sad

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this vc has been the exact same for literally the entire day and that's kind of sad

Do you want me to vote?

me? no

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like i can convince you im town but i cant really case python

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i'm town because as scum i don't just react that way to delta prodding me, i was genuinely sick of him constantly poking me about how i was scum so i just went ahead and did it
i'm town because i just am
me hammering vox is not a move scum me makes here it would've been much easier to just convince bella and drop a quickhammer
i was uninformed about your actions. as town i do not evaluate night actions as it's not information that i should be digging into. i do not want to know about a pr's night actions unless it's absolutely necessary, which in this case it wasn't really because i couldn't just take python's word for in the case that it was kawaii/python, and i'm not about to believe vox who "jailed" me twice in a row.
pr hunting is not scum-aligned for the same reason: if fn were to out it'd be easier to hunt scum. in this case it's semi-imaginary fn vs vox (outed jk) and im not just gonna believe python if they claim there's an fn and using it as an argument but the fn themself isn't outing.
i am town because python is scum oh shit that's a circular argument can't use that
uhhhh what was python scumcasing me on again

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Now that the "no u" storm has passed I'm gonna try to do some NK analysis. The most important questions that need to be answered before starting are:

What is the earliest possible time patch/AV could have confirmed who the FN is?
and
What is the mindset going into the NKs?

---

Starting with the easy part, the FN was a 50/50 between me and Kawaii when I confirmed an FN existed d2. Looking at the player list at the time with the roles patch/AV would know:

pod - Town Tracker (Claimed d1)
AV - Mafia Rolecop
patch - Mafia Goon
Kowahbunga - Vanilla Townie (Rolecopped by AV n1)
Bellaphant - Town
Python - Town
KawaiiKame - Town

Since I confirmed the existence of an FN, that would imply I'm either FN or was visited by one. If I was visited by FN it's much more likely for Kawaii to be FN over Bella since Bella scumread me (why FN your scumread) and I scumread Kawaii (makes sense to FN people scumreading you). Feeding this into the NK analysis, we can assume the following:
1. By the start of N2 patch/AV have a 50/50 of guessing who the FN is between Python and Kawaii
2. By the start of d3 patch/AV know who the FN is (because if Kawaii was rolecopped they'd know, and if I was rolecopped then assuming it's Kawaii is pretty reasonable)

This does also mean that patch asking who the FN is d3 wasn't PR hunting but instead theater to make it look like they don't know who the FN is (because town!Patch shouldn't know who the FN is)

---

Taking a look at the NKs from my privileged position of knowing patch is maf, it shows quite a bit. I want to first go over what would happen if patch/AV tried to go for a patch/Kowah/VT ending by guessing the FN n2 and shot me instead:

Playerlist by the end of d3:
Kawaii - FN
patch - Maf
Kowahbunga - Confirmed VT
Bella - Unconfirmed town

patch's options in that case are either a Kawaii/patch/Bella endgame or a patch/Kowahbunga/Bella endgame. Are either of these winnable for patch?

In the patch/Kowahbunga/Bella endgame while Kowahbunga was sussing Bella and I for having problems with patch's hammer, the fact of the matter is that a person doesn't survive to 3p ELO after having been confirmed town since n2 unless there's an agenda behind it. The WIFOM potential is outweighed by Bella pointing out there's an extremely obvious smokescreen to hide behind for Kowah getting NK'd, namely that they're confirmed town and that's all the reason maf need to kill them

In the patch/Kawaii/Bella endgame, do you actually vote Bella over patch there? Like that's up to you to assess but iirc you TR'd Bella?

In either case, if patch/AV try to yolo a 50/50 NK onto the FN they just lose if they miss. While patch is less careful in their scum games, AV gave off the impression that he's good at mech and would presumably be able to be the voice of reason there.

---

Next up: the mindset going into kills. There's a few different schools of thought when it comes to nightkills, the big ones that come to mind though are:

• Kill the person whose death creates the least amount of information

• Kill the most widely townread person

• Kill the most dangerous PR's

• Kill the person that will create the biggest problems in ELO

Now knowing that the FN can only be reliably killed n3, this lets me look at the NK's in a new light. That's because all the kills are actually kills on people that'd make the biggest problems in ELO disguised as kills on the most townread people. How does this fit into the meta that patch is less careful as scum? Simple, AV is the good at mech voice of reason. Let's take a look at the nightkills:

Deltabreedy - Spent pretty much the entirety of d1 pushing patch and was pretty townread, not someone patch wants to keep alive
Kowahbunga - Having two confirmed townies in 3p ELO is unwinnable, therefore at least one has to die. Since the exact identity of the FN couldn't be confirmed this was the better kill (and killing them n3 instead of n2 is bad because then they know they were alive for a reason and reassess their reads)
Bellaphont - The alternative would be a patch/Kawaii/Bella ELO or a patch/Python/Bella ELO. In the patch/Python/Bella ELO I was already pretty ready to crossvote patch so it'd still be an instant crossvote, except now they have to deal with Bella being (no offense) stronger at reads than you. In the patch/Kawaii/Bella ELO do you really see yourself voting Bella?

---

Looking at the nightkills, it's scary just how much of it lines up with a patch game

this

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This does also mean that patch asking who the FN is d3 wasn't PR hunting but instead theater to make it look like they don't know who the FN is (because town!Patch shouldn't know who the FN is)

this is a silly assertion because i did in fact not know who the fn is

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Playerlist by the end of d3:
Kawaii - FN
patch - Maf
Kowahbunga - Confirmed VT
Bella - Unconfirmed town

if python were town this would be confirmation bias

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Looking at the nightkills, it's scary just how much of it lines up with a patch game

okay scum

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oh fuck me

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SO MUCH FOR BEING YOUR TOWN SPIRIT ANIMAL VOX

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Night 2 actions:
AV kills Kowahbunga (Success)
AV rolecops usesPython (Vanilla)

..... av why woiuld you rolecop your own partner

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Paaaaaatch I’m sorry i felt so bad but I thought I could get you onside emotionally because I knew my logic was flawed, I also knew when Bella posted it would be game over for me so it was either push you onto kawaii or onto me and it had to happen asap.

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..... av why woiuld you rolecop your own partner

Why not? We already knew Kawaii was FN when I got FN'd and pod claimed d1 and flipped by that point

oh right i forgot

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What was the I S thing?

The breadcrumb is "IM SCUM", read the first letter of every sentence:

I

doubt he’s going to respond.

M

aybe to swear at us again lol.

S

o are we happy with me JKing patch?

C

os I’m also thinking at least this way I won’t block a FN.

U

nless the wifom potential for the no kill is too confusing?

M

aybe I shouldn’t have claimed it beforehand but I think it’s best to know patch is clear if I do die…

I

have no idea why pod would lie about his result.

M

aybe he just hated me.

S

o I jailed patch like promised.

C

onfirms him as town.

U

nbelievable, right?

M

ust therefore be 2 of {bella, KK, UP}.

I

wish we could have rode into the sunset together.

M

any years from now, we’d have looked back on this game and said how unbelievable it was that we navigated the lies of a town pr faking a result.

S

cum must have been salivating when they saw the fake result from pod.

C

an you believe how happy they must have been when they saw it??

U

nless you can see it in your heart to see my truth, we’re guaranteed the loss here.

M

y bro, I leave it in your hands <3

DAMN VOX

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But the worst I feel was manipulating patch :’(

IT WAS HORRIBLE ON D4 WHEN PYTHON WAS LIKE
GASLIGHTING KAWAII INTO THINKING IT WASNT MANIPULATION

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Patch you are my spirit animal, even when I’m scum you make me want to be town <3

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IT WAS HORRIBLE ON D4 WHEN PYTHON WAS LIKE
GASLIGHTING KAWAII INTO THINKING IT WASNT MANIPULATION

In my head I just kept repeating "Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girlboss" and it worked

laughed out loud at this one
seriously though python you played so well

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oh yeah nexus you can release my notes pt if you want even though i didn't do much with it

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btw thanks for modding!

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also ive seen this trend where in all my town games i will get tunneled and scumread pretty wildly but then i deepwolf the fuck out of all my scumgames
like im not even that good as playing scum it's just that people townread more during my scumgames for whatever reason???

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hi ranmaru

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wait how do we see the PTs again im dumb

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thanks

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man mafia PT is so entertaining to read

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you guys are crazy /pos

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No way patch actually falls for that lmao

I DID

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i was onto you guys on d3 though imagine how much better this game would've gone if we had gotten a python lim d3

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I feel like I’ve been betrayed by my best friend </3

Now I feel like *I’m* betraying my best friend

vox my bro........ this is so wild
you guys were such a good scum duo lol

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yeah this game was def a scum sweep