Newbie 2126: Art [Game Over]

[Merlyn]

Looking forward to the game, all!

VOTE: political clout, never trust a politician

[Merlyn]

Well that's unlikely to come from scum

Why so? I realize PC isn't me, but I've done similar stuff as both alignments. I'd be interested in your reasoning though.

I thought skitter was making a joke

[Merlyn]

Looking forward to the game, all!

VOTE: political clout, never trust a politician

Quoting you for the notification. Any thoughts yet on...well, anything?

I like TheHoldSteady's questions- clear and asking for more content and analysis.

I don't like that none of the other newbies have contributed anything.

[Merlyn]

I'm not skitter, but I can attest that self-votes tend to get scumread, often for very silly reasons. It definitely draws attention.

So i think it was an rvs vote, but that it's more significant than 'random' and that we can derive meaning from it

So i think it was an rvs vote, but that it's more significant than 'random' and that we can derive meaning from it

Alianna is a perfect example why I don't read into alignment for a self vote- I've seen her do it twice as town and get heat for both times. I think the only meaning is that the player doing it is bold, but I don't read what alignment they are for it

[Merlyn]

So you have to combine activity and content with scum MO. Rereading a bit, I could read Merilyn's post as her trying to quickly set the execution towards an inactive townie since those would be easy targets. But I want to see more posts from Merilyn and see what else develops before I hold on too hard to that read

From my RVS vote? So, like, I'd orchestrate an insanely quick lim while never moving from my joke vote and hope no one questioned me on it on D2?

[Merlyn]

Okay, this seems like a fair and reasonable answer. I can see some town thought process in the re-reading of the posts, coming up with a theory to answer the question, but not holding on too hard to a theory that isn't too strong.
Not that it's impossible to do that as scum, I just find it more likely to come from town, especially from new town.

I 100% agree with this and think it's worth highlighting.

I kind of lean town on this too, but I'm hesitant to give them a new player pass because the use of the 'L-word' implies they're just new to the site, but not to mafia.

[Merlyn]

I'm not skitter, but I can attest that self-votes tend to get scumread, often for very silly reasons. It definitely draws attention.

So i think it was an rvs vote, but that it's more significant than 'random' and that we can derive meaning from it

So i think it was an rvs vote, but that it's more significant than 'random' and that we can derive meaning from it

Alianna is a perfect example why I don't read into alignment for a self vote- I've seen her do it twice as town and get heat for both times. I think the only meaning is that the player doing it is bold, but I don't read what alignment they are for it

Irrelevant, but which two games was this? I remember that happening in Newbie 2120, and I also self-voted later on in Micro 1080, but I didn't take any heat for that one that I recall.

I was thinking of 2120 and the newbie you subbed into, Terrieresque (my first game).

[Merlyn]

So you have to combine activity and content with scum MO. Rereading a bit, I could read Merilyn's post as her trying to quickly set the execution towards an inactive townie since those would be easy targets. But I want to see more posts from Merilyn and see what else develops before I hold on too hard to that read

From my RVS vote? So, like, I'd orchestrate an insanely quick lim while never moving from my joke vote and hope no one questioned me on it on D2?

Oh not your RSV vote. I was talking about this.

Looking forward to the game, all!

VOTE: political clout, never trust a politician

Quoting you for the notification. Any thoughts yet on...well, anything?

I don't like that none of the other newbies have contributed anything.

Hmm, okay, that makes more sense. I don't think scum could realistically set up a lim where one of the points was 'look, I pointed out that they were a part of a large group of nonposters early in the game, that's a point against them!'

[Merlyn]

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I am showing your point is incorrect. While you claim to think that it's not important to the game, it is in fact important to the game for me that I question and try to figure out alignments and why players come to certain alignment reads. (Look at my first part where I explain why I was asking skitter).

I answered it plainly I don't see how you're getting this wrong. You claim I'm not saying you're incorrect and that I'm not trying to solve, but in my response to you it addressed both these things.

None of the responses to my statements, or your original posts have been towny.

Again, what you "consider" important is part of the reason I believe you aren't an innocent. You say I'm incorrect because you believe its important, but the irony is that you believing that is my entire point.

I'm not seeing what you're seeing here. I'm fine with the overseer push on skitter

[Merlyn]

I'm not skitter, but I can attest that self-votes tend to get scumread, often for very silly reasons. It definitely draws attention.

So i think it was an rvs vote, but that it's more significant than 'random' and that we can derive meaning from it

So i think it was an rvs vote, but that it's more significant than 'random' and that we can derive meaning from it

Alianna is a perfect example why I don't read into alignment for a self vote- I've seen her do it twice as town and get heat for both times. I think the only meaning is that the player doing it is bold, but I don't read what alignment they are for it

Irrelevant, but which two games was this? I remember that happening in Newbie 2120, and I also self-voted later on in Micro 1080, but I didn't take any heat for that one that I recall.

I was thinking of 2120 and the newbie you subbed into, Terrieresque (my first game).

I didn't vote myself in Terrieresque. The heat I took there was for being on the fence and apparently because "not having confidence or having doubts looks bad." Yes, I am still a bit salty over it lol.

oh I really thought you did. lol, I would be salty too, you were so town that game

[Merlyn]

This will be a short post because I'm on mobile and won't be back on my laptop until tomorrow

I'm town reading Alliana because I think we both share a similar approach to figuring things out and that's a pretty good sign of town as any for me

I will likely give the replacement the benefit of the doubt if they get here before the day ends because there would be more to go off tomorrow

Still slightly leaning scum on Merilyn, but that's mostly a gut read. She's responding but not making deeper probes, if that makes sense

I could go either way with Skitter at this point

Wish political clout and Arko would participate more, but they could go either way

That leaves Polaroid and Overseer. It seems like Overseer is genuinely probing but is more aggressive and tunnel visioned about it. I feel like all of his posts so far have been responding to Polaroid's response or the thing with Skitter.

One thing I wanted to ask was is it safe to assume me Polaroid and Overseer aren't a scum team together? Seems very risky and odd to come in after very little activity and push on your partner who nobody was suspecting.

@Radical Polaroid say you're right and Overseer is scum. Who do you see as his partner?

What events have happened that I should have made deeper probes on?

Was the 'me Polaroid and Overseer' intentional?

[Merlyn]

I don't have any specific missed opportunities in mind. I'm just looking at your contributions in general and it doesn't seem like you're taking a deeper dive. Your comments all seem surface level which comes across as scum trying to seem active but not town trying to win the game

That was a typo. Somehow the end of the word "assume" got duplicated

Sooo...you want me to take deeper dive on things (in the four whole pages we've had so far) but you can't point any places out where I should have done so. So, I read this like you said something and now can't back it up.

re: typo- yeah, I figured it was something like that, just wanted to make sure I was answering the right question. I am not putting skitter and overseer in the TvT box just yet, I haven't seen any of the things I consider tells at this point that help me decide one way or another.

[Merlyn]

Also, what does tmi stand for in this context?

TMI still means Too Much Infomation, and in this context means someone has more info than a townie would/someone has info that scum has. There's a great glossary here, I literally kept it open in tab right next to my game when I started.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... y:Glossary

[Merlyn]

@political clout
given that you agree that it's 'highly unlikely' that me and radical are out to get overseer in a nefarious plot teamed together

what do u think this means abt overseer that he thinks this is what's happening

pedit you're the one acting like i declared him to be the strongest townread of all time. you're kinda taking the strength of the read all out of proportion and then calling me scum for having it so ...

are you just posting to post? that's something scum might do. what exactly are you trying to ask? if I think he's scum? or something else because it is not clear what you mean when you say what do I think it means about overseer. I posted that I have no idea what it means about his alignment and that it is weird. gun to my head I would call him town if i had to.

I want you to think more abt what u think it means abt overseer's alignment, and get back to me abt it

skitter, what else are you looking for here though? They already said what they think.

[Merlyn]

UNVOTE: political clout

[Merlyn]

Skitter30 - I have played with skitter before, and she was pretty good, I feel she was very stingy with her vote and explored all angles, even when we had a basically confirmed scum. This time her questions to me just feel shallow. Her vote on me comes off as opportunistic on a case that is very weak. I'm suspicious of her town read on political clout as well.

yeah ok so :

- we have less than 100 posts still. at this stage, any vote/read i make isn't going to be based on anything super strong, i'm using the limited information i have to try to make progress

So, here's the thing. I'm thinking the same way you are.

And yet, Polaroid came out in their first substantial post and was like, "yeah, this person is scum". Overseer thinks he has this game figured out while I still have no clue.

What do you all think of that difference in confidence levels?

It means some people are quicker to form reads than others, and that some of us are probably wrong. I don't think this inherently says much abt anyone's alignment

And also that people have playstyles that they try and make consistent across both scum and town games. Some people come off as extremely confident (or wacky or rude or whatever) regardless of alignment.

[Merlyn]

Also, what does tmi stand for in this context?

He's saying it's so unlikely that town-me could have gotten to a townread off of that post that he thinks i must be scum with Too Much Information who slipped that a bit too easily

When did you realize this?

Immediately, that's why i'm objecting to the read, b/c i think it's silly

Did u think i don't understand your point or ... ?

Well then wtf is this?

In what way is this tmi

You ask on multiple times like you don't know. Now you're saying you knew all along lol. So what was majority of our back and forth even about? Since you already knew immediately?

I don't understand this, overseer are you saying that you thought the whole argument between you and skitter was that they didn't understand the definition of TMI?

[Merlyn]

I like the post that Alianna made, I think she's made some good points. I don't want to vote Radical rn until I know if the slot is getting replaced, but I think the reasoning for the vote is good.

Something I couldn't discern from your post, Alianna, is where you came down on overseer?

[Merlyn]

yessss, sweet pagetop, sorry not sorry Aisa

[Merlyn]

Polaroid, I sense genuine frustration in those last two posts and I get it- it can be really hard to interact with people who are questioning you. Mafia stays fun for me when I remember I'm in a game where it's a fact that people are lying (and sometimes I'm one of them lol), so of course people have to question what I'm saying.

[Merlyn]

This is not that important but I'm just gonna say something bc I see it's spreading- my name is merlyn, not merilyn

[Merlyn]

These posts were actually pretty insightful, more so than I initially remembered when I said Merilyn hadn’t been substantial. They actually tell me that Merilyn is experienced enough to get more out of the first four pages

There's...a lot I could say to this post, but I'll stick with this: I'm experienced enough to know that there wasn't much to get out of the first four pages. I asked you at the time to tell me what I could have talked about but wasn't, and you couldn't. Now, three real life days later, you say you've come up with a bunch of stuff I could have gotten of these first four pages (I don't really think you did though). The delay makes it look like it took you a long time to justify your initial comment to me.

I'm still leaning town on you for now, I feel like newer scum in my experience don't stick their necks out as much as you do.

[Merlyn]

@alianna i think that the vibe of these posts are unlikely to come from scum
the self-voting thing is unlikely
the kinda rude responses also feel unlikely to come from scum - scum tries to make friends and ingratiate themselves and try to get people to like them. beign annoying and rude is not a great scum tactic

I agree with this for the most part (although I have definitely met rude players that stay rude no matter what the alignment).

i really, really want to wagon overseer

Sure, let's see what happens VOTE: Overseer

[Merlyn]

This is not that important but I'm just gonna say something bc I see it's spreading- my name is merlyn, not merilyn

You're telling me it's not Marilyn? Lies.

No no that's my alt account you're confusing me with, Alian(n)a

[Merlyn]

Just because it's possible to get reads on the first few pages doesn't necessarily mean that there will be much in those pages that a given player views as AI. Some players are just quicker to form reads than others too.

But the way she keeps saying it makes it sound like she's saying "it's not possible" not "I couldn't" because she played the "I'm experienced" card

i just feel like I'm being gaslighted here

eh?? You were were the one who brought up experience, I was responding to you about it

I said I townread you and I'm not voting, what the hell would I be gaslighting about?

[Merlyn]

Just because it's possible to get reads on the first few pages doesn't necessarily mean that there will be much in those pages that a given player views as AI. Some players are just quicker to form reads than others too.

But the way she keeps saying it makes it sound like she's saying "it's not possible" not "I couldn't" because she played the "I'm experienced" card

i just feel like I'm being gaslighted here

eh?? You were were the one who brought up experience, I was responding to you about it

I said I townread you and I'm not voting, what the hell would I be gaslighting about?

I feel like everything I try to say to you is warped into things I wasn't saying at all in an attempt to make me feel like I'm stupid or something

I said "you're experienced enough to know you can find things to discuss on the first four pages." Then you twisted it to say "I'm experienced enough to know there's nothing that can be discussed on the first four pages" which I blatantly know is not true

I didn't say anything about your read on me. What would that have to do with it

So you think I'm just picking on you I guess for the fun of it? I'm sorry I made you feel that way, I don't find picking on people fun.

I'm not trying to warp things you say and I don't think you're stupid, but it's my job in this game to find out if you're scum so when if I think you've said something too generalized or inconsistent I question it. It's actually due to these interactions that I've got a townread on you.

[Merlyn]

Just because it's possible to get reads on the first few pages doesn't necessarily mean that there will be much in those pages that a given player views as AI. Some players are just quicker to form reads than others too.

But the way she keeps saying it makes it sound like she's saying "it's not possible" not "I couldn't" because she played the "I'm experienced" card

i just feel like I'm being gaslighted here

eh?? You were were the one who brought up experience, I was responding to you about it

I said I townread you and I'm not voting, what the hell would I be gaslighting about?

I feel like everything I try to say to you is warped into things I wasn't saying at all in an attempt to make me feel like I'm stupid or something

I said "you're experienced enough to know you can find things to discuss on the first four pages." Then you twisted it to say "I'm experienced enough to know there's nothing that can be discussed on the first four pages" which I blatantly know is not true

I didn't say anything about your read on me. What would that have to do with it

you planning on keeping that vote your slot put on in RVS then?

[Merlyn]

thanks for figuring out I was talking to you Eiralox despite me putting in the wrong quotes

[Merlyn]

@PC- I just realized you've still got an RVS vote, what are you thinking nowadays?

[Merlyn]

Ok did an iso thing of skitter overseer and radpolar and wow it was a bit vagueish, sort o too much too fully read kinda almost headache haze kinda thing. like. Overseer probably town there. idk still looking at the other two i guess. really wanna hear from overseer.

VOTE: No Elimination

idk feels like a low vibe bad trend day and while me not having fully read yet isn't fixing that I sort of want to avoid elim and let mech play be stronger rather than face a potential scenario where we are running up our power roles on flash wagons.

I think no lim is pretty much almost always bad for town, especially D1

[Merlyn]

@Alianna, is it only RP you'll vote for? I'm not against the lim I think but I just want to know where your headspace is at

[Merlyn]

We've got about 2 and a half days left on the deadline. We should probably start thinking about consolidating. In a game like this one, I imagine that agreeing on a wagon and getting a claim might take a while, and I think it's overall better for town if we aren't in a deadline scramble.
My preferred wagon is still Radical, for the following reasons:
This, from the wall I posted earlier.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I disagree that the bolded line is scum-indicative, but it does commit a logical fallacy (specifically the tu quoque fallacy), so I don't mind it being pointed out. I do, however, take issue with Radical ignoring the part of the post that explains why he's questioning skitter, why he's focusing on the things she views as unimportant. I'd expect follow-up on that, maybe asking why it's important if she still doesn't understand or what TMI means if she doesn't know. This just looks like shade.

I really don't like Arko or Overseer

Aliana is trying to make content it seems? Although I don't really like this kind of "spectator" posting. Depends on the person, but I know a few people who do this when evil.

I liked Steady and Merilyn

I dislike Aliana's content the more they post.

Though steady and merlyn have continued with good stuff

I'd ask for explanations of all these reads, but I honestly doubt I'd get an answer (feel free to prove me wrong on that though).
This "I like this, I don't like that" is just so easily fakeable. There's little actual thought process there to get an actual read off of. I guess the overseer read was already explained, and there's a bit about me (coincidentally the two people who scumread you), but it's still not much. Like, why am I scummier than I was before?
That and the seeming unwillingness to cooperate with the town and to answer questions (and it's not just mine) don't sit well with me.

This is the kinds of shit I hate having to respond to. People are so unaware of when they setup an entire biased perspective and then go "you need to respond now"

"You gave no information, and all you said was this or that" Which is false, but then you setup an entire discussion this way.

I said earlier that you give spectator reads, and they don't come off as innocent to me. It's a lot of reacting to what others are doing, and responding while backreading instead of actively engaging with new content.

Now YOUR ONLY "original" thought is to call the person who isn't being town read by anyone "evil"

Then when I say I don't like your content this game, the response you have is a defensive take calling me evil. You show me where I should find you innocent, then maybe we can start having a real discussion.

I'm confused by a couple things in this post. When did Alianna call someone evil? I couldn't find it using the search box. I see you using it, but that's all.

[Merlyn]

oh, like using it for 'calling me scum'? That is context she uses it in when she says it. I'd just never heard someone use that phrasing

[Merlyn]

@mod, just a heads up that my vote is missing from the votecount on this pagetop

Thank you, fixed.
-Aisa

[Merlyn]

I did not, at any point, say that it was all "this or that."

This "I like this, I don't like that" is just so easily fakeable

You don't think this was close enough to be what she meant?

The rest of your post is good points about how to play mafia though.

[Merlyn]

oh huh, that second quote should be from 218

[Merlyn]

Being pushed by someone who doesn't have the awareness to see the flaws in their thought process when it's pointed out to them is meh

I'd rather die and let them learn something about being wrong.

Not going to sit here and fight against bad logic over and over.

LOL yeah, then forum mafia might not be your jam cause that's like 80 percent of it

But more seriously, if you're town, dying to prove a point hurts us more than helps us. You don't have to keep engaging with Alianna right this minute, is there someone else you find sus to focus on instead?

[Merlyn]

I did not, at any point, say that it was all "this or that."

This "I like this, I don't like that" is just so easily fakeable

You don't think this was close enough to be what she meant?

The rest of your post is good points about how to play mafia though.

"All" is the key word there.

whoo boy, Alianna, that is some mighty fine hair splitting.

[Merlyn]

Does anyone townread Radical or believe that she should not be today's vote? I'd like to hear why if you do.

I read your case, and I don't know why it leads the conclusion that Radical is scum over town making so newbie mistakes.

It's essentially:
Radical shaded Overseer. This is true from my perspective, but that's NAI for sure.
Radical says things she thinks sometimes without sharing why she thinks them. You and I both know that there's tons of folks on this site that do that, and they do it as town or scum.

This case was good enough reason for a Radical push imo but as a limmable, likely to be scum kind of thing? I'm not feeling it.

[Merlyn]

hello, pagetop!

[Merlyn]

Wow, I really like that readslist. Even when we don't agree on slots I can't really argue with the progression of thought here. I also think someone replacing in as scum would be better served by dithering around as the clock ticks down to deadline instead of this kind of activity, so I'm leaning town.

The thing that makes me hesitate on a PC lim is that if he flips green we learn so little, so if I vote him I want to be really sure he's scum.

edit- okay, I don't get the unvotes when there were only two votes on the guy

[Merlyn]

Hi, just here to check in. Critically thinking about this game today is probably not happening as I've eaten some poor quality chicken and now the main thing on my mind is OWWWWWWWWWWWW MY STOMACH. I might be around more later tonight and tomorrow, depending on how I feel. Should be able to cast a hammer at deadline if I need to.

oh no! Pepto Bismol it up and feel better soon!

[Merlyn]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Political Clout
I don't really have a better idea right now I think there's a least a chance this hits scum

[Merlyn]

2124 in this same subforim

oh, thanks for that, I'll take a look

[Merlyn]

Also, let's not vote or unvote based off of what smiley thinks is too fast. We're really close to deadline, especially since we want to allow a claim and we want to discuss the claim. Can everyone please vote on who they think is the best chance to lim scum?

[Merlyn]

VOTE: Radical Polaroid

I think new person made a good point earlier on top of some other things. Can make a longer case write-up if anyone wants me to.

Yeah, I'd like to hear it, especially if addresses any of the things I've been hesitant to call scummy

[Merlyn]

If you saw it, why have you not claimed? You're under threat of hammer.

I'm talking to someone what's the rush you can't sit still for a while you're that hungry to kill me?

That's... Not how the game is played. If you have a power role we'd need to regroup and there's almost no time for that as is

[Merlyn]

Okay, we do not want to no lim. If there's a second wagon that we can all agree on quickly, let's hear it, bc aren't you going to want a claim from them too?

Like, for those expressing doubt, what is the plan here?

[Merlyn]

I'm calm, I'm not freaking out. I'm just trying to understand why you haven't claimed when you are at E-1 and intent. As town, it should be very simple to just claim your role there.

I think someone is voting me for silly reasons as soon as I say my role you're either going to hammer me or not. you're in the same state now as you would be then.

Just to get this out there, we really wouldn't be. We either hammer or not- if it's NOT, the time you have wasted where we could be searching for a new wagon is really bad for town. Like, if you are town, this was bad play.

[Merlyn]

Okay, we do not want to no lim. If there's a second wagon that we can all agree on quickly, let's hear it, bc aren't you going to want a claim from them too?

Like, for those expressing doubt, what is the plan here?

you don't want a no lim. In this scenario, whether pc true or fakeclaims, chances are Radical Polaroid flips VT. So. I'm not gonna hunt for claims.

...I know I don't want a no lim, that's why I said "we do not want to no lim"

[Merlyn]

no, I'm good

[Merlyn]

I mean, I don't think we should hammer without a claim in case they are PR.

see above. town pr would probably already have claimed. i'm still on my initial instinct this either vt or scum for self vote. pr wouldn't risk that, pc ain't dumb.

I guess I'm dumb then lol, I did that as Watcher once.

nah i'm like a non expert so i'm sure there are very valid reasons not to claim. as vt or scum, defs.

How did it work out for you, Alianna?

[Merlyn]

I retract i'm town doctor

Is this serious?

hammer me and find out

are you being for real Alianna?

[Merlyn]

it's 100% serious

if it is you really blew it

[Merlyn]

Look. Even if he WAS town doctor, he is dead now by scum tonight. And he has prevented us from finding a replacement lim. He needs to be hammered.

[Merlyn]

Someone here is playing for time and trying to no lim. HoldSteady or Alianna, don't let that happen.

[Merlyn]

you know what? Go ahead and lim me tomorrow if he's not scum. I mean it. He's not that new, he knows better than to waste the time AND falseclaim AND now, what, PR fish?

[Merlyn]

I'll self vote tomorrow, I feel that good about it

[Merlyn]

Alianna you know I don't act like this as scum

[Merlyn]

I retract again I'm vanilla townie. but it goes to my point that merlyn did not care at all that if I was actually a pr they would move their vote they didn't. like come on they danced around if you are a pr you need to claim they just wanted me dead they knew I was town.

I'm not dancing. I'm flat out thunderdoming with you.

[Merlyn]

like i'm not so serious here right now becuase i knew this was coming when I voted no lim so don't expect me to say you're a scum merlyn.

Please vote PC.

[Merlyn]

like i'm not so serious here right now becuase i knew this was coming when I voted no lim so don't expect me to say you're a scum merlyn.

Please vote PC.

can you please give flash skitter, alianna, holdsteady and dude reads?

I think Alianna has shot up the scum-o-meter by a substantial amount. My skitter and and holdsteady reads are the same (town). I don't have a good read on dude bc of the unvoting nonsense. You didn't ask, but what I think about you depends a lot on what you do next.

[Merlyn]

please just a run dovn merlyn

my dude, there is 36 minutes left to deadline. You're wanting what here

[Merlyn]

like i'm not so serious here right now becuase i knew this was coming when I voted no lim so don't expect me to say you're a scum merlyn.

Please vote PC.

can you please give flash skitter, alianna, holdsteady and dude reads?

I think Alianna has shot up the scum-o-meter by a substantial amount. My skitter and and holdsteady reads are the same (town). I don't have a good read on dude bc of the unvoting nonsense. You didn't ask, but what I think about you depends a lot on what you do next.

hov does skitter having clout a tovn make u feel?

It makes me feel nothing, she hasn't been around for the latest shenanigans.

[Merlyn]

Alianna you know I don't act like this as scum

I played one game with scum!you in which I repped in and pretty much got insta-yeeted. I'll be honest that I don't remember much of it. Could you tell me why exactly you don't think this fits your scum meta?

Okay, because I don't go aggro at deadline and offer to thunderdome over it as scum

[Merlyn]

keeping my word here: VOTE: Merlyn

So the reason I went hard on PC after he claimed doctor and said it was 100% serious was that I'm the FN, which means there can't be a doctor in the setup. So I was in the position of revealing my pr and getting nk'ed or trying to get PC limmed without saying why I was so confident (this is a great reason not to falseclaim as town btw). I sent a message to Eiralox last night.

[Merlyn]

UNVOTE:

Can anybody better at mech than me say if it's a good idea to hypoclaim for jk today?

(If you're not familiar, hypoclaiming is where we all say 'If I was JK I jk'ed XXX N1', so they don't have to claim but we'll still know who they targeted should they bite it)

[Merlyn]

VOTE: Merlyn ok whatever

NO. GO READ 367.

VOTE: merlyn

Why do you scumread Merlyn

Tell me why

Ok I'm just throwing a countervote in here and to Rymrgand with the outflow.

I'm not sure what this means. But unless you have a specific case for scumreading Merlyn I don't feel like this vote helps anything

I mean you have to see why I thought you guys were masons and and am now suspicious here? Skitter keeps giving me bad vibes and if it's just radical that makes sense. So i'm not calling you cum yet at all ; )

That's a weird order to put the posts in. The one in the middle came first, and I think Steady was still tunneled on me at that point. The one you put first is pretty clearly about his RP case and not me.

You didn't think it would be weird for a mason to bus the other that hard?

[Merlyn]

i'm town so as you're confirmed shout and insult me if u wanna just know i'm on your side here, good night action.

Huh? Where am I shouting and insulting you?

[Merlyn]

i'm town so as you're confirmed shout and insult me if u wanna just know i'm on your side here, good night action.

Huh? Where am I shouting and insulting you?

I fully expected you to ask this, knowing how people mesh with me >.<


I meant in the future if I'm acting like an ass or you just plain think I'm wrong feel free to point it out.

LOL I don't think you're a PITA, no shouting or insulting even if I think you're wrong. I'm just trying to sort you

[Merlyn]

UNVOTE:

Can anybody better at mech than me say if it's a good idea to hypoclaim for jk today?

(If you're not familiar, hypoclaiming is where we all say 'If I was JK I jk'ed XXX N1', so they don't have to claim but we'll still know who they targeted should they bite it)

Also, whoever the JK is, there is a 50% chance that your target is scum who tried to perform the kill and a 50% chance that your target is town who was attacked.
Is it optimal for a JK to claim here?

I'm gonna bubble these back up to the top, I think we really need to think about what is the smart play for the JK here. The absolute worst scenario is they die at some point without sharing. Ugh, where's Python or Jason when you need them?

[Merlyn]

The right thing honestly might be just to let them do what they think is best tonight, I'll be NK'ed, and they'll have two days of data

[Merlyn]

I'm the Jailkeeper with a save on Skitter. This has been the key component to my reads so far

RP, why did you want to claim here? I'm asking bc we were literally saying earlier in the thread that you should not claim and let me take the hit tonight.

[Merlyn]

VOTE: skitter Skitter either was a) the target or b) the killer. Does anything think skitter was the most likely target last night? It really should have been someone like TheHoldSteady, who was townread by the vast majority.

[Merlyn]

@HoldSteady, I saw your ask, I'm out at the lake today but I'll work on my reads late tonight/tomorrow

[Merlyn]

fine im an idiot

go ahead and replace me

I don't want to play anymore.

Aw, I hope you stay. I like playing with you and think you're actually doing a good job. Maybe take comfort in the fact that the person being rude to you about gameplay really doesn't know what she's talking about.

[Merlyn]

I can understand the urge to vote RP but here's the thing:

Shes likely doomed herself, its hard to see scum taking the chance on keeping her alive just in case her claim was real and she's backtracking.

As the other person most likely to be killed, I want to remind folks that we have to resolve skitter at some point.

[Merlyn]

Copy that! While waiting for replacements:

So, both of you have 12 hours to convince me there's a scum in camel, alianna, steady or dude because I'm not feeling it while both of you have in fact acted like a clumsy scumteam from the start.

Okay, so you're saying the scumteam is skitter/RP. You're saying that RP falseclaimed a role and named her scumpartner as the target, thinking it would clear skitter? I can only see this happening if RP went completely rogue and didn't run this by skitter at all, skitter would know a thousand times over what a bad idea that is.

[Merlyn]

Yeah, we lost momentum when the replaceouts happened it seems.

[Merlyn]

Ok I was waiting on wayward so ig I'll make a post

I kinda forgot that political was dead so I went back to see their reads and the only person I could find that they really scumread was Merlyn, probably because they weren't removing their vote after the PR claims and merlyn claimed to be "thunderdoming" (idk what that means can someone tell me)

Also btw political I imagine that wagon must've been really annoying to you so sorry for that

You're apologizing to one of the people who falseclaimed and did his damndest to get me kill last night, but okay.

I made a post a while back with a link on mafiascum terms, I still really recommend it. Thunderdoming is when you're saying that if you're wrong about who you think is scum, you're ready to die the next day on it.

Snivy, who are your current top tr's and sr's?

[Merlyn]

I'm with you on tr'ing Alianna- end of D1 I was very afraid she was PC's partner and running out the clock bc she had no choice, but when he flipped green- I don't know why scum wouldn't have just hammered away.

I think that RP is probably town, but who the heck knows lol it was a wild situation.

Why townlean on smiley? I'm undecided on him

[Merlyn]

Welcome Wayward, sorry I didn't say that!

This is probably the most time and effort I've ever

wasted

put into a mafia game lol.

Someday Alianna we'll look back on this and be laughing- 'remember that newbie game where people just started fakeclaiming left and right?'

[Merlyn]

Hi Ali!

VOTE: Alisae

Listen, I'm FN- kill me yourselves if you need confirmation. We HAVE to be in B1 (tracker) or B2 (jk).

If I'm FN and Alisae is a tracker and she tracked a guilty with no kill, that means she tracked a rolecop. I find this so hard to believe- that scum would put in a night action but no kill action.

But hey, if it IS true, killing Alisae will resolve so many things- if she's really somehow tracker, we'll have a confirmed guilty. If she's scum, awesome we got a scum.

[Merlyn]

@ Merlyn I can't bring myself to vote Alisae because during all these shenanigans from the slot no one has CCed.

What do you think of the previous JK claim? I don't understand why they would retract it though.

But why would a town slot have the tracker role, get a guilty on someone, and decide to 1) not share results and 2) lie lie lie about it? BTW, no one counterclaimed the JK claim either.

[Merlyn]

either way i dont think theyre being serious lmao

You think Alisae is....fakeclaiming as a joke?

[Merlyn]

Merlyn - For all I care, she can literally do whatever she wants.

I will begin breakdancing in pajamas immediately then

[Merlyn]

UNVOTE:
If Alisae is bluffing (and new folks, I promise you she is capable of it, we have a major player subbing into this slot here) I have to think that the slot resolves itself if she lives to D2. Scum is not going to let a claimed JK live.

I am currently thinking that HoldSteady wouldn't have gotten so worked up arguing with RP if HoldSteady were scum. I'm down to vote Smiley VOTE: Smiley

[Merlyn]

??? We were at E-2, not exactly the danger zone

[Merlyn]

Oh I just mentioned Merlyn because I honestly believe that as a villager her vote is basically random xD

Why?

[Merlyn]

ffs

It was just Alisae spelling out the sound it makes when you write XD

[Merlyn]

Alisae, what're you thoughts on why a scum!Alianna would have wavered so much with during the last minutes of D1?

[Merlyn]

oh! I was just trying not to let Alianna get to 1000. I am very invested in that.

No, I think this is a good choice, fingers crossed.

[Merlyn]

Not gonna let this happen Alianna

[Merlyn]

I will post endlessly.

[Merlyn]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Merlyn]

lol how does she do it???

[Merlyn]

I'm going to Jail Alianna I just have to clear this person at night when Smiley flips mafia.
What is she going to do, kill me?

[Merlyn]

why would she lie?

[Merlyn]

I need to mull things over too, starting with smiley's ISO is a good place as any.

Skitter, lets say we do flip Alianna and she flips green- where else are you looking?

[Merlyn]

I dont know what they're talking about either but smiley was not jk, Wayward Son was

[Merlyn]

okay now to drop a bombshell

my slot jk wayward son n1

[Merlyn]

Why are you voting Wayward if you didn't know that?

[Merlyn]

actually no smiley + wayward kinda makes sense

goon (a townread goon for that matter) doing the kill makes sense

But how does that implicate wayward? I know you've unvoted, I'm trying to understand why you were voting in the first place

[Merlyn]

See, I don't think that adds up. That explains why, if you're already suspecting Wayward, why you think he'd be the scum doing the kill. But it doesn't explain why you think he's scum in the first place. And if you didn't know he was JK, why were you suspecting the (by your own admission) the most widely town read slot?

[Merlyn]

Skitter, what if we just kill Snivy today? I'm sure if it's wrong you can rally town to kill Alianna like you want

[Merlyn]

I'll never ever accuse someone of playing against wincon becuase in my opinion it's actually okay lel, it can be fun.

Don't want to derail here but- you can have that opinion, but it's against the rules so don't do it

Out-of-game influence:
4. Play to your win condition

[Merlyn]

A dog bit me it's not serious but i don't have the energy for this for at least a day or two, i don't know who's scum so *shrug* hope to be helpful later

Oh no! Hope you're okay/getting better, that must have been scary

[Merlyn]

If i vote snivy today and he's town, do we do alianna tomorrow?

@merlyn

I'll do this compromise, but keep in mind I may be biting it tonight

[Merlyn]

Copy that, I'm down to vote snivy today and if he flips green lim Alianna.

[Merlyn]

Copy that, I'm down to vote snivy today and if he flips green lim Alianna.

you really think alisae switched?

i don't see ANY reason why they would

Why aren't you more focused on the fact that I want to lim you?

VOTE: CameCasedSnivy

[Merlyn]

how about we make getting post #1111s better than post #1000s

Heh, I like this

[Merlyn]

Copy that, I'm down to vote snivy today and if he flips green lim Alianna.

you really think alisae switched?

i don't see ANY reason why they would

Why aren't you more focused on the fact that I want to lim you?

VOTE: CameCasedSnivy

Why is it scummy not to focus on that?

I'm thinking he doesn't know how to respond skitter and I talking about his yeet so matter of factly and so instead is focusing on the other part of the post.

its inevitable anyway so I'm trying to get town to understand that I really don't think its alianna

Why do you think it's inevitable, I don't really see much of wagon for you yet

[Merlyn]

Snivy, can you respond to what Alianna pointed out earlier? I'm still trying to figure out why you suspect Wayward.

Also, how do these two thoughts line up?

its inevitable anyway so I'm trying to get town to understand that I really don't think its alianna

theres alianna which im slightly doubting but that vote according to you guys is a lot less likely to flip red than me

[Merlyn]

I'm honestly not sure it's camel tbh

I'm not sure on anyone. I keep coming here to say, fine, I'll sheep you on Alianna, and then I think about Alianna holding back the hammer on a townperson despite intense pressure from me. Like, in what world does scum do that?

[Merlyn]

is this game just standstill until i die

Why don't you put up a case and counterwagon? It kind of feels like you're wolf who's given up

[Merlyn]

Ahhhhhh i don't know what to do here

Can I direct you to 1137 please, if you're still really confident that it's alianna try and convince the town

[Merlyn]

I actually find it tbh kinda townie tbh

When I give up as town I'm usually a lot more 'screw you guys I hope scum wins!' but that may just be me

[Merlyn]

Feel free to ask me questions, I guess.

I guess my question would be why you don't seem to feel like playing

[Merlyn]

Yeah

[Merlyn]

Start on page 20, and keep reading through a bunch of nonsense until Eiralox hammers. All I'm asking- for skitter as well as everyone- Why this delay and dance as scum? She could have hammered at any time, and as scum she would have known she was killing town.

Spoiler: a veritable deluge of posts that happen 1 hour and then less before deadline

Well, are we doing this? Are we good for me to hammer, or does anyone have anything they want to say before the day ends?

Well, are we doing this? Are we good for me to hammer, or does anyone have anything they want to say before the day ends?

so you did just want to kill me got it.

I wanted to make sure you weren't PR so we didn't lose a PR?

I retract i'm town doctor

Is this serious?

I retract i'm town doctor

Is this serious?

hammer me and find out

are you being for real Alianna?

Look. Even if he WAS town doctor, he is dead now by scum tonight. And he has prevented us from finding a replacement lim. He needs to be hammered.

I retract i'm town doctor

Is this serious?

hammer me and find out

are you being for real Alianna?

Am I for real? Yes. I couldn't tell if it was serious or not.
Or were you calling PC Alianna?

Someone here is playing for time and trying to no lim. HoldSteady or Alianna, don't let that happen.

Look. Even if he WAS town doctor, he is dead now by scum tonight. And he has prevented us from finding a replacement lim. He needs to be hammered.

The thing about that is, if we execute PC, someone townier probably dies. If we let scum kill PC, we can execute someone scummier if we consolidate.

you know what? Go ahead and lim me tomorrow if he's not scum. I mean it. He's not that new, he knows better than to waste the time AND falseclaim AND now, what, PR fish?

I'll self vote tomorrow, I feel that good about it

I just need to do this.

Spoiler: screaming

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Alianna you know I don't act like this as scum

Ok, we have 44 minutes. We have Merlyn, Steady, PC, Eiralox, Smiley, and myself online. We have the power to decide on whatever wagon we want. So now we need a plan.

Ok, I didn't read the part where they reverted.

yes you were dancing lmao and morally on your high horse trying to teach me about standard gameplay about if you're a pr you should claim. but I claimed a pr and guess what you did nothing. nothing. you flat out threw a tantrum saying if I was a doctor alianna should still vote for me your mask came off.

How did you not think about the scenario where you get CCed in 8 out of 9 setups and out a real PR?

Alianna you know I don't act like this as scum

I played one game with scum!you in which I repped in and pretty much got insta-yeeted. I'll be honest that I don't remember much of it. Could you tell me why exactly you don't think this fits your scum meta?

please just a run dovn merlyn

my dude, there is 36 minutes left to deadline. You're wanting what here

I have absolutely no idea what is going on here or what to do about it.

Alianna you know I don't act like this as scum

I played one game with scum!you in which I repped in and pretty much got insta-yeeted. I'll be honest that I don't remember much of it. Could you tell me why exactly you don't think this fits your scum meta?

Okay, because I don't go aggro at deadline and offer to thunderdome over it as scum

What if we just yeet Polaroid and worry about the Merlyn/PC claim shenanigans on Day 2 when we have a whole week to sort it out?

[Merlyn]

I'm curious. With 4 slots left, is it 2 or three votes for a result?

I know Snivy already answered this, but you can see what's needed for a vote and the deadline under each vote count

[Merlyn]

Damn Wayward I just read your 'fluff' spoilers, hope you and your pup are doing better/will be doing better soon! Between you, Eiralox getting bit, and me getting COVID I think we need to accept that we've got some sort of King Tut's Tomb Was Opened type curse.

[Merlyn]

is this game just standstill until i die

ok i have to be fair here can you sell me on wayward or skitter scum? You are still saying Alianna is town i'm sure?

probably not over me but yea im pretty sure alianna is town

If you are town, it sucks that you won't fight to save yourself and help town. I've asked you, eiralox has asked you....

[Merlyn]

so, we, uh...gonna lim someone tonight?

[Merlyn]

Since this is likely curtains for me should Snivy flip green, good luck town! Best advice I can give is to really look at the inactivity this day and try and guess who was hiding on purpose.

[Merlyn]

Fingers crossed this flips red because I feel like we're screwed if it doesn't.

I think missing a lim and catching someone already actually puts town ahead of where it would normally be at this stage.

[Merlyn]

ugh so if this is town and i somehow die im not sure who'd be scum between wayward, alianna and skitter. so maybe it'd be good for town lol.

my best guess is Alianna or skitter. Which is tough, they're both great players!

[Merlyn]

Fingers crossed this flips red because I feel like we're screwed if it doesn't.

I think missing a lim and catching someone already actually puts town ahead of where it would normally be at this stage.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, can you rephrase?

Sorry, probably not clear, I keep expecting the thread to get locked! I just meant that normally we would have one less town here but with a NK that didn't happen we've had extra breathing room. Plus we've caught a scums, so just one to go. Definitely not a sure thing, but I'm optimistic

[Merlyn]

ugh so if this is town and i somehow die im not sure who'd be scum between wayward, alianna and skitter. so maybe it'd be good for town lol.

my best guess is Alianna or skitter. Which is tough, they're both great players!

Why not Wayward?

Only vibes from HoldSteady.

[Merlyn]

ugh so if this is town and i somehow die im not sure who'd be scum between wayward, alianna and skitter. so maybe it'd be good for town lol.

my best guess is Alianna or skitter. Which is tough, they're both great players!

Why not Wayward?

Only vibes from HoldSteady.

What town really has to ask there (and you all may come up with a different conclusion than me) is whether all that emotion was frustrated town or scum shaken they had been RB'd.

[Merlyn]

Fingers crossed this flips red because I feel like we're screwed if it doesn't.

I think missing a lim and catching someone already actually puts town ahead of where it would normally be at this stage.

I don't know what you're trying to say here, can you rephrase?

Sorry, probably not clear, I keep expecting the thread to get locked! I just meant that normally we would have one less town here but with a NK that didn't happen we've had extra breathing room. Plus we've caught a scums, so just one to go. Definitely not a sure thing, but I'm optimistic

It's 4:30 AM in Aisa-time, I think we have some twilight left lol.
One blocked kill doesn't actually give us any breathing room in terms of misexecutions. It makes the game longer by a day, but in order to get the best statistical odds, we have to no-execute tomorrow to reduce the pool. We only get to execute one more person after this if we're wrong, so it's better to wait to have 1/3 odds instead of 1/4. Unless you don't die, in which case it's 1/3 anyway. It would actually take two missing NKs to gain us an execution.

I feel like you're trying to bring me down with things like math and logic and I can't be brought down with such worldly things

[Merlyn]

gg everyone! Skitter than was one of the best 'dragging yourself out of a tunnel' I've seen. Scumteam, you did a great job making this one too close to call at times.

[Merlyn]

This is one of the mafia games I have ever played.
GG all and thanks for modding Aisa!

I honestly think that 'The Night of A Thousand False Claims' will live rent free in my mind for a long time

[Merlyn]

Aisa, thanks for being such a good (and funny) mod, I enjoy your games!

[Merlyn]

"Every time you fake claim a bunny dies on the side of the road folks"
- Aisa 2023

I might put this in my sig.

hahahaha words to live by for sure
-------------------
In post 31, Aisa wrote:
AAAAH I just accidentally TMI'd something to Alianna I shouldn't have in the PM
(She hadn't read it so I just deleted it and reworded it big brain play :3)

For future reference both HoldSteady and Polaroid were force-replaces, I did not receive a replace-out request from either
------------------
ooooh, what was it????

[Merlyn]

Why, uh, didnt you kill me last night?

Honestly I have no clue.

If you end up reading the spec thread you'll find out that Aisa had to get a whole new rule made up in case you and town decided to continue to endlessly no lim in a very slow game of chicken.