Newbie 2126: Art [Game Over]

[Radical Polaroid]

Hello

[Radical Polaroid]

Sorry, I don't really have anything to say, but I wanted to check in.

[Radical Polaroid]

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

[Radical Polaroid]

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

[Radical Polaroid]

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I am showing your point is incorrect. While you claim to think that it's not important to the game, it is in fact important to the game for me that I question and try to figure out alignments and why players come to certain alignment reads. (Look at my first part where I explain why I was asking skitter).

I answered it plainly I don't see how you're getting this wrong. You claim I'm not saying you're incorrect and that I'm not trying to solve, but in my response to you it addressed both these things.

None of the responses to my statements, or your original posts have been towny.

Again, what you "consider" important is part of the reason I believe you aren't an innocent. You say I'm incorrect because you believe its important, but the irony is that you believing that is my entire point.

[Radical Polaroid]

And say Polaroid did "pull reads out of thin air". The question is, why do that as scum? Why completely make up a scumread about a town player on page three? What purpose does that serve?

No I didn't.

Also I don't really care what people say, vote me.

[Radical Polaroid]

Did a combined ISO of skitter/overseer/Radical, this is my thought dump. I'm putting most of the specific reasoning and comments on individual posts into spoilers to avoid bloating the thread and making it unreadable.

Spoiler: Wallpost

Everything up to post 62 looks fine on both sides so not too much to say there. Just looks like both players are trying to come to an understanding.

This exchange is where it gets a bit interesting.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'd still like Radical to address my question about this. Why was overseer's questioning not important and what is important?

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi.

If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

I don't think having a townread off of one post is TMI, since a "townread" can be strong or weak and we have to make do with what little we have in the early game. I do see how overseer could think this about skitter, though, since her wording ("unlikely to come from scum", "I just have a hard time seeing scum do that") wasn't clear on the strength of the TR and I do see how it appears stronger than might be reasonable.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I disagree that the bolded line is scum-indicative, but it does commit a logical fallacy (specifically the tu quoque fallacy), so I don't mind it being pointed out. I do, however, take issue with Radical ignoring the part of the post that explains why he's questioning skitter, why he's focusing on the things she views as unimportant. I'd expect follow-up on that, maybe asking why it's important if she still doesn't understand or what TMI means if she doesn't know. This just looks like shade.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I am showing your point is incorrect. While you claim to think that it's not important to the game, it is in fact important to the game for me that I question and try to figure out alignments and why players come to certain alignment reads. (Look at my first part where I explain why I was asking skitter).

I answered it plainly I don't see how you're getting this wrong. You claim I'm not saying you're incorrect and that I'm not trying to solve, but in my response to you it addressed both these things.

This response by overseer is solid.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I am showing your point is incorrect. While you claim to think that it's not important to the game, it is in fact important to the game for me that I question and try to figure out alignments and why players come to certain alignment reads. (Look at my first part where I explain why I was asking skitter).

I answered it plainly I don't see how you're getting this wrong. You claim I'm not saying you're incorrect and that I'm not trying to solve, but in my response to you it addressed both these things.

None of the responses to my statements, or your original posts have been towny.

Again, what you "consider" important is part of the reason I believe you aren't an innocent. You say I'm incorrect because you believe its important, but the irony is that you believing that is my entire point.

...what does this even mean?

87 and 88 from skitter are both pretty reasonable things to say.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

Oooooh i like this
Esp. since i had similar thoughts abt overseer there

VOTE: overseer

This, I'm noting because it conjured up a tinfoil theory in my head. I thought it was a little interesting that skitter only started scumreading/voting overseer after Radical made her (rather sketchy) accusation. Technically, there's a world where Radical/overseer are both town and skitter is scum, and skitter saw that as an opportunity to start a wagon on overseer, thinking she'd have support. I don't have a good reason to think we actually live in that world though. It was just a thought that came to me.

overseer's posting, I think, is fine so far. One question though.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi.

If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

Why did you say that? That statement defeats the purpose of your questioning, since a hypothetical scum!skitter now knows what you are looking for and can make an effort to hide her TMI.

I felt the need to out my intention there as it is more beneficial to me to try and investigate the radical polaroid push on me. She accused me of not trying to solve, so I have to explain why she is wrong by outing the motivations behind my skitter questioning.

I realized I never actually followed up on this, but fair enough.

The rest of it seems to be mostly about the TMI thing, which looks to me like a misunderstanding that got way overblown, and the tag teaming thing, which I don't really get.

I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven.

Also this looks like a tag team effort on me. The timing and cohesion is suspicious.

TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.

soooooo ... this looks like we're tag-teaming you ?
like yeah you walk it back in the next sentence with 'oh maybe you're not teamed' but this is the second or third time now that you've implied you think we might be in cahoots pushing you

so, again: again, do you think scum would actually pair together this early to do that? you didn't actually answer the question i asked

I think it's viable that you're a team. I do think it's unlikely though. I said it looks like a tag team. Wait what am I answering here exactly? Feels like I'm repeating myself or you're asking things that are in the quoted part.

I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven.

Also this looks like a tag team effort on me. The timing and cohesion is suspicious.

TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.

soooooo ... this looks like we're tag-teaming you ?
like yeah you walk it back in the next sentence with 'oh maybe you're not teamed' but this is the second or third time now that you've implied you think we might be in cahoots pushing you

so, again: again, do you think scum would actually pair together this early to do that? you didn't actually answer the question i asked

I think it's viable that you're a team. I do think it's unlikely though. I said it looks like a tag team. Wait what am I answering here exactly? Feels like I'm repeating myself or you're asking things that are in the quoted part.

Can you explain how:
- it's unlikely we're a team
- we're tagteaming

At the same time? To me it looks like you're arguing that at once we're not teamed, but we're parterning to push you, which doesnt make sense to me to think at the same time

- It's unlikely, because of how obvious it would join you two, like you and political clout said.

- I said it LOOKS like you're tag teaming. I didn't say I am 100% sure you are the team and ARE tag teaming.

So again, like you and political clout said, it is unlikely you're the pair right? Why? Because it looked like you're working together!!!! So AGAIN, me pointing out that you look like a team with the cohesion and timing is also noted by you and political clout. I'm just the one who openly stated that you look like a team, with your point about why you CANNOT be a team, you are literally proving that you do actually look like a team and I'm not trying to shade by saying you look like a team.

It's a little odd to say this...

Let me guess your partner radical polaroid is gonna go on about how I'm aimlessly forcing or talking about this tmi angle that's not important but it's actually you that set up the trap. Makes sense now.

I'm more concerned with the reasons behind votes that who is voting who specifically. And both your reasons seem scum driven. Also this looks like a tag team effort on me.

The timing and cohesion is suspicious.

TBH I'm not actually convinced you're a team but I don't get that feeling that you can't be a team.

...after saying this, which does imply overseer thinks they're a scumteam. I could believe it if he said he changed his mind after realizing it would be too obvious though.

skitter's posts are overall pretty good, I don't take issue with much there.

I think it's unlikely that more than one person in this group of 3 is scum. skitter/Radical is too blatant, I highly doubt skitter/overseer is SvS, and as for overseer/Radical, I just don't see the point in doing what they did for the reasons TheHoldSteady mentioned in 84.
Radical has some explaining to do, so I think I'd like to vote there. I also think that her being scummy makes it more likely that skitter/overseer is TvT.

VOTE: Radical Polaroid

I have nothing to say to you. Go read my posts.

[Radical Polaroid]

I really don't like Arko or Overseer

Aliana is trying to make content it seems? Although I don't really like this kind of "spectator" posting. Depends on the person, but I know a few people who do this when evil.

I liked Steady and Merilyn

[Radical Polaroid]

I dislike Aliana's content the more they post.

Though steady and merlyn have continued with good stuff

[Radical Polaroid]

We've got about 2 and a half days left on the deadline. We should probably start thinking about consolidating. In a game like this one, I imagine that agreeing on a wagon and getting a claim might take a while, and I think it's overall better for town if we aren't in a deadline scramble.
My preferred wagon is still Radical, for the following reasons:
This, from the wall I posted earlier.

I think Overseer is spending a lot of focus and attention on something not very important to the game. They are coming off as engaging, but it doesn't feel like a genuine thought path.

I'm trying to see if skitter has a town read off one post, which would be tmi. If you don't like scum hunting and just want silence no need to shade me, just say so.

Talking about any content not being important to the game when it's dead and you've contributed nothing. That's just silly.

This isn't a thought from an innocent. A werewolf is more concerned with things like this. You aren't saying my point is incorrect, rather that "how dare I comment on your unimportant rant when I haven't done enough important things." This comes off as someone being defensive, not looking at the game trying to solve the game.

I disagree that the bolded line is scum-indicative, but it does commit a logical fallacy (specifically the tu quoque fallacy), so I don't mind it being pointed out. I do, however, take issue with Radical ignoring the part of the post that explains why he's questioning skitter, why he's focusing on the things she views as unimportant. I'd expect follow-up on that, maybe asking why it's important if she still doesn't understand or what TMI means if she doesn't know. This just looks like shade.

I really don't like Arko or Overseer

Aliana is trying to make content it seems? Although I don't really like this kind of "spectator" posting. Depends on the person, but I know a few people who do this when evil.

I liked Steady and Merilyn

I dislike Aliana's content the more they post.

Though steady and merlyn have continued with good stuff

I'd ask for explanations of all these reads, but I honestly doubt I'd get an answer (feel free to prove me wrong on that though).
This "I like this, I don't like that" is just so easily fakeable. There's little actual thought process there to get an actual read off of. I guess the overseer read was already explained, and there's a bit about me (coincidentally the two people who scumread you), but it's still not much. Like, why am I scummier than I was before?
That and the seeming unwillingness to cooperate with the town and to answer questions (and it's not just mine) don't sit well with me.

This is the kinds of shit I hate having to respond to. People are so unaware of when they setup an entire biased perspective and then go "you need to respond now"

"You gave no information, and all you said was this or that" Which is false, but then you setup an entire discussion this way.

I said earlier that you give spectator reads, and they don't come off as innocent to me. It's a lot of reacting to what others are doing, and responding while backreading instead of actively engaging with new content.

Now YOUR ONLY "original" thought is to call the person who isn't being town read by anyone "evil"

Then when I say I don't like your content this game, the response you have is a defensive take calling me evil. You show me where I should find you innocent, then maybe we can start having a real discussion.

[Radical Polaroid]

kill me, I couldn't care less

gl

[Radical Polaroid]

Being pushed by someone who doesn't have the awareness to see the flaws in their thought process when it's pointed out to them is meh

I'd rather die and let them learn something about being wrong. Not going to sit here and fight against bad logic over and over.

[Radical Polaroid]

I don't like how Skitter is talking about Overseer, who I also called scum earlier on. The way they are phrasing the read comes with such a high level of certainty, when I don't see how you logically see it that way. There's just not enough being laid out by Skitter to even justify a read strength anywhere close to that. An innocent should at least be concerned they could be wrong.

[Radical Polaroid]

VOTE: Radical Polaroid

I think new person made a good point earlier on top of some other things. Can make a longer case write-up if anyone wants me to.

Yes.

I expect you to actually explain your reasons to kill an innocent.

[Radical Polaroid]

^ Above is something I'd never expect a town to do.

Says he has these reasons laid out in his head, and will post them if someone asks.

People ask.

"Yo I'll get back to this later, even though I clearly know why I'm voting Polaroid"

[Radical Polaroid]

How do I vote?

Going to vote Political when I can

[Radical Polaroid]

Vote: Political Clout

[Radical Polaroid]

Vote: Political Clout

LMAO carefull radical they all might switch to you since it's such a huge scumtell

I don't read you anything, but it's just math. I know I'm town and don't know you

[Radical Polaroid]

Idk, I find what Pc is focusing on weird if they are evil. I'd be trying to get someone killed in their position. Feels like I'd just be making up a strong scum read at least

[Radical Polaroid]

Im thinking.

[Radical Polaroid]

I've come to the conclusion that the people I want dead are as follows: SmileyDude, Camel, Aliana, Eiralox

Not sure who I'd kill first, need more time to think it over

[Radical Polaroid]

I'd put Skitter, Steady, Merlyn as town, fairly convinced

[Radical Polaroid]

Can you share how and why you have these reads? Merlyn you have to put as town, she is mechanically confirmed to be so.

I shall keep you guessing. The only info the thread requires right now is who I'm reading.

[Radical Polaroid]

I've come to the conclusion that the people I want dead are as follows: SmileyDude, Camel, Aliana, Eiralox

Not sure who I'd kill first, need more time to think it over

I'd put Skitter, Steady, Merlyn as town, fairly convinced

Can you elaborate a bit more on this split and how you formed it?

I'm actually taking back the Steady town read. Could be partners with Eiralox or Camel.

My reads are largely based around how I see EOD1 played out.

[Radical Polaroid]

I'm the Jailkeeper with a save on Skitter. This has been the key component to my reads so far

[Radical Polaroid]

also @radical i prob wouldn't have claimed in ur shoes now fwiw

ok

[Radical Polaroid]

Merlyn has had a very scummy response

The perspective is something I only see from someone who is evil, and thinking about the decisions they made in the night

[Radical Polaroid]

Merlyn has had a very scummy response

The perspective is something I only see from someone who is evil, and thinking about the decisions they made in the night

Merlyn is mechanically confirmed to be town.

That's sad. They should start acting as a town then

[Radical Polaroid]

I'm going to retract my Jailkeeper claim.

I was interested in a world where Skitter and I were cleared to people. I got what I wanted out of it

[Radical Polaroid]

I'm going to retract my Jailkeeper claim.

I was interested in a world where Skitter and I were cleared to people. I got what I wanted out of it

What did you want? What did you gain?

I liked how Skitter was creating content after I claimed, and I feel stronger that my list of Skitter, Steady, Merlyn are town.

[Radical Polaroid]

I think Alianna has been talking about my claim, and my position in the game as if they have TMI

The thought process isn't fluid, and it's like a scum who has to tangle with knowing I am town, whilst trying to talk about how I've been playing.

[Radical Polaroid]

ok i can buy that scum was fishing (maybe)
*I don't think that they would make the claim and then retract it tho*

the retracting is the bit i'm having an issue with coming from a scum perspective
i just don't see it

(and, again: i looked past all the red flags on political clout, and was right. idk why you think having a differing read than u is scum-indicative)

it's not just a different read. you two have been in perfect harmony since the beginning

I've played way too many games of social deduction throughout the years. Going on a decade now. Just a small bit of advice, you are creating a tunnel of thought and ignoring aspects of the game to fit an idea you have. Skitter and I disagreed heavily on who to kill, and you aren't even spending enough thought process to truly eval the game correctly. You could be mafia doing this, and such fair play.

[Radical Polaroid]

Man, it's really possible that the team is actually Alianna/Steady the more I think about it lol.

thought for later

[Radical Polaroid]

Fine everyone just play the experience card with me. not like I've been playing since 2010 or something either. but I will read everyone else and look into other possibilities just to prove to you Im not tunnelling. Still plenty of time left to look into everything.

You already made a statement that showed you were tunneling. Although feel free to be defensive about something you did.

[Radical Polaroid]

ok i can buy that scum was fishing (maybe)
*I don't think that they would make the claim and then retract it tho*

the retracting is the bit i'm having an issue with coming from a scum perspective
i just don't see it

(and, again: i looked past all the red flags on political clout, and was right. idk why you think having a differing read than u is scum-indicative)

it's not just a different read. you two have been in perfect harmony since the beginning

Ok so u think that scum partners tend to work perfectly together?

this is the real counterargument for it that ive been wrangling with since aliana first brought it up

that it's too blatant, it's not how scum teams typically operate

but the more I think about it the more I think maybe i was overthinking it

polaroid i know you two have wanted overseer/smileydude since the very beginning and now you're both on the same page about aliana as well . player vs. player interactions are some of the most telling details of any game for me and at no point have i see any "great disagreement on who to kill" and if I'm wrong please point out where this great disagreement was. I already dropped a scum read on Merlyn when I saw there was a good counterargument against it and I dropped a theory about aggression when other people pointed out that it didn't matter. Contrarily to what you say I'm more than willing to listen to any information that opposes my theories.

I've played on a lot of different mafia communities, all I've learned that ASSOCIATION READS ARE BAD. You can find a few of them over time, but often the better mafia players will get along with certain town members and interact with a core town group.

I played a very large game a couple months back, where I won as mafia. 3-4 of my partners were found through association reads, and then the town went crazy reading into it and wanted to believe. I won in f6, mainly because I had no associations with my partners, because I'm aware that tying my survival to a weaker mafia would be a terrible play.

Another thing is that you are literally ignoring the things Skitter and I did the opposite on, lol which makes you come across as scummy doing this on purpose

[Radical Polaroid]

It would make more sense logically for you to come to the conclusion one of Skitter and I were mafia, just joining up with the town and trying to latch onto the town for survival. Although, I find it weird that you feel so strong to push such a weird perspective. Maybe you are a town who plays badly, or scum idk

[Radical Polaroid]

what opposite things have you done, im waiting for you to name some.

Skitter wanted to save Political, someone I didn't mind dying. I even voted them.

Killing people is the key part of this game, the most important aspect, and you keep saying "YOU TWO ARE STAYING IN PERFECT RYTHYM" lol.

Like come on dude.

[Radical Polaroid]

I know I'm not a bad player.

I told you why I think you two could be a scum team

Don't like it, prove me wrong instead of attacking me

I'm not attacking you.

You are playing bad, just based on your own thoughts they don't make sense in any perspective. I'm just informing you, stop being so defensive and angry. Read what I said, and then acknowledge you have made a mistake.

[Radical Polaroid]

You are failing at every step.

1) If Skitter and I were lockstep, it wouldn't actually make us scum in anyway.

2) We haven't been lockstep

You want me to work with you, but you are so far from being correct it's impossible.

[Radical Polaroid]

if it took a page for you to then it took a page for you to counterargue why i think you might be a team? I don't see why you're insulting me so much. i can't out reads and ask questions without being made into an idiot I guess

Wow, I can't expect an individual to read the game before screaming and yelling that Skitter and I are a mafia team and are in lockstep!

All I said was that you should at least go and read what Skitter and I have both done before claiming things. You got upset at this. I called out your bad play, and now you are playing a victim.

Get over yourself

[Radical Polaroid]

fine im an idiot

go ahead and replace me

I don't want to play anymore.

If this is you being serious, I'd advise you seek some help before playing mafia. This level of woe is me isn't healthy from a simple critique in a mafia game. Seriously, don't play if you are this angry.

[Radical Polaroid]

fine im an idiot

go ahead and replace me

I don't want to play anymore.

Aw, I hope you stay. I like playing with you and think you're actually doing a good job. Maybe take comfort in the fact that the person being rude to you about gameplay really doesn't know what she's talking about.

Are you fucking joking? What a pathetic thing to even say to me or about me. I never said anything rude, and only showed someone what they were saying. Get over your self, the ego needs a break. Saying I'm rude because someone is playing victim in a god damn mafia game. This place is sad.

I'm done with this site.