Newbie 800 ~ Mafia: The Reality Show (Game Over!)

[onion]

hi hi! onion here. i'm a 'replacement' although i might as well not be.

i'm a philosophy major, and right now i'm playing lots of Dwarf Fortress. (loosing is fun!)

so who of you are from this past ruined game and who of you are new?

just for the novelty of it all,

Vote: Cyren

.

[onion]

when someone is at L-1 on the first day, no townie would hammer, which means that anyone who hammers would be scum. nobody hammered, but it was still worth it because it made me laugh. it was a lot more entertaining than voting for Raeil. Auditor, are you trying to communicate? usually that includes writing more than 2 words, perhaps with some punctuation in it. anyway, town points for sideney for 'Let's thing get hot'ing.

[onion]

here again sorry for absence.

i looked at the initial votes and saw that Cyren voted for Raeil (016), and Raeil voted for Cyren(021). a good way for scum to distance perhaps, which is totally enough of a reason to vote for them in RVS (not quite random voting stage?) and so i placed my vote on Cyren it also served a different purpose.

i was concerned that someone else (scum/otherwise) would quickly hammer and argue that they were writing while i posted, which would have been a great move for scum or a catastrophe for town, and i'm glad that didn't happen. i would not believe someone saying they mis-counted because our mod announced it, and i expect most of us can count to 5. thus i suppose i should refine my argument to 'only scum or townies who are stupidly anti-town would hammer.' doesn't sound quite as good though.

i was not attempting to get him lynched, but to draw out a scum hammering him. trading a townie for a scum is a good deal, we only have to do it twice to win.

as a side note, i have not heard of people getting L-1'd so early and it makes me smile to know that i got to do something so rare.

[onion]

am i supposed to be suspicious of Ric? let's see.

he voted for Cyren (023) first, he calls be brutally honest (058), a complement for philosophers. he questions Cyren about his vote (071), and unvotes himself (079) when any pressure is put on it (indicating that it is either a random vote with no value or a scum vote).

so what i get from this is that he is trying to act town. both sides try to act town though, so it is hard (not sqeezey) to to tell the difference.

Why am i voting for Cyren? because Cyren and Raeil cross voted and Raeil withdrew his vote (031) a bit too quickly. i could swap my vote over to Raeil, but they are evenly early-game-suspicious right now.

[onion]

my intention was not to lynch Cyren, but to provide the scum a chance to point themselves out. the vote also happened to line up with a cross voting pair worthy of suspicion. not the greatest of suspicion, because cross voting isn't the greatest of scum tells, but it's something.

what's your problem Echo? sure auditor is goofy, but he contributes enough for right now. 'i hate you' is fine for a random vote, but i feel we should be moving away from the random voting stage.

i feel that you, ric, are allying up with me. it's cool to meet a fellow enlightened person in the depths of the internet, but don't think that doesn't make you scum. you aren't very suspicious yet, but everyone gets a turn.

Anticollie - lurking is suspicious.
Auditor -
Cyren - cross voting is suspicious.
Echo - hating auditor is suspicious.
Haylen -
Raeil - cross voting is suspicious.
Ric - allying me is suspicious.
Sideney -

[onion]

Why do you think trading townie lives for scum lives is an acceptable practice? You are aware there are other, safer, practices.

it seems like an acceptable practice because if a trade will prevent lynch-or-loose day 3. remember that i'm not voting for a confirmed townie here. she has a chance of being scum only a sqeezey bit higher than anyone else. so if someone hammered, either Cyren is scum and/or whoever hammed is scum. either way, we get at least 1 scum in the first 2 days. that seems acceptable.

How can we assume that what you propose (trade) would prove sucessful? It may at times- but it is in no way a common enough occurance to warrant such an action. Do you feel the same way? why?

i disregard the possibility that a townie would accidentally hammer because i posted directly after a vote count (028). i believe it was extremely clear at the time how many votes were currently on Cyren.

Do you honestly think Ric is playing buddy buddy? Aside from sharing a vote... which he voted for first, and you FOLLOWED HIM, I see no evidence.

Ric defends me against Cyren (058) and generally attacks him while he is attacking me. he tries to explain (085) what i do as a philosophy quirk instead of a scum tell. thus it seems to me that he is allying up. we are not currently sharing a vote; Ric unvoted, but seems to still suspect Cyren.

and a PS for xkcd fans. if i publish my thesis, i'll have an Erdos Number of 3!

[onion]

Echo, you quote me out of context, how scummy of you. 075 is stated as a refinement from my previous statement, while 101 is a much more generalized statement taking into account all possible alignment flips. are you having trouble with the inclusive Or in that statement? i solidify my position because other players want to know it, and i stand by my statement that if someone hammered, Cyran and/or the hammerer is scum.

i'm glad that people are accepting Auditor's poetry as being not the worst-thing-ever. i don't agree with him, however, that providing more information is bad because the scum can use it. given a no-information situation, where the town lynch randomly, the town will loose most of the time. the only weapon the town has is information, and so it stands to reason that 'more information is always good.' which brings us to Haylen and WIFOM.

because more information is always good, Haylen wandering the dark alleyways of WIFOM can't be bad because it lets us in on her train of thought. at best it will be useful, and at worst it is of no importance, and so it can't be 'dangerous'.

Cyren's lurking, here's something for her.

Putting me at L-1 to see if scum would hammer IS intention to Lynch.... No matter how you phrase it you were not just sacrificing town but information as well. Like I said to Haylen willingly lynching a town instead of someone you actually THINK might be scum is really bad to me.

you incriminate me under the assumption that i think you are town? yet i clearly stated my suspicion of you only 2 posts earlier.

Anticollie - hate of WIFOM qualifies as restricting the flow of information. suspicion on you!
Auditor - i disagree with your statement because it is essential for the town to know more.
Cyren - crossvoting, lurking.
Echo -
Haylen - feels like an IC.
Raeil - crossvoting.
Ric - Echo has it about right.
Sideney - how about some content some time?

Signed, Orion Who.

[onion]

i'll start with ric's post a page ago. first, repeatedly asking Cyren for justification for his vote is an attack against him because its purpose is to see if his vote is scummy or not. it is by no means a bad thing because that's what we are here to do.

the first time i stated my who-would-hammer theory, i was disregarding Cyren being hammered by his buddy, which seemed like a very strange move on their part, or that a pro-town would know he was scum, also very strange and unlikely. however, i later added these possibilities to the theory. only an anti-town would hammer a towny Cyren, but either alignment could hammer a scum Cyren.

i thought i was being quite honest of my suspicion of Cyren and Raeil. the crossvoting is weak evidence, but what do you expect this early? i'm not pointing at Cyren screaming scum here.

In short:
053: anyone who hammers would be scum
115: either Cyren or the hammerer is scum, meaning the person who hammered might not be scum after all

Until you explain how you can generalize to a degree where your general statement contradicts with your more specific statement, I think my point stands.

in 053 i neglected the possibility that a a pro-town could somehow know Cyren was scum and hammer him. it is such an unlikely possibility that i didn't think of it at the time. none the less, it is possible and so was added to the theory later as stated above.

Anticollie - advocates full disclosure except for wifom.
Auditor - better not leroy our game.
Cyren - nothing new.
Echo - seems lynch happy.
Haylen -
Raeil -
Ric - still allying, but i like him.
Sideney - refuses to contribute.

i'm up to speed at least. i notice my lack of new content this post; i'll build a case next time. Sideney refuses to join the conversation and i'm actually getting a lurk feel from Anticollie because he talks all about general position, and not about this game. and auditor who doesn't like arrogant people will have a hard time with two philosophers and Anticollie.

[onion]

i'm not trying to ignore your posts, Cyren, but there was little to say about the last one.

No I incriminate you on the basis you would have done that regardless if I were town or scum. Also as stated above the chance of latching on a quicklynch on scum is SLIM unless you are infact the scum partner and you know you're busing your partner.

in that i have no way of telling if you are town or scum, yes i have stated suspicion of you and voted against you without being sure of your alignment.

furthermore, your over reaction to me calling you a lurker is, well, an over reaction. you seem to overly defend yourself.

Anticollie, you've decided who our choice is going to be with 9 days left? it is not time to sit idly by and waste daylight, but to gather much info for the coming days. Anticollie posts without much game content, while Sideney barely posts at all. here he agrees with everyone, states non controversial reasons for his vote and tries to not stand out at all.

michael jackson commemorative playlist go!

[onion]

i apologize to Cyren for mistyping my pronouns. i'm not doing in on purpose and will be extra careful in the future.

Anticollie tends to write a lot yet say little. sure, he's getting into the whole IC thing and proving us with all sorts of good information, but it is proportionately low game content wise. he's still posted more game context then Sideney, though, so if i gripe about low content i should start with him.

Sideney has an extra e in his name. he stated his suspected pairing of ric and onion in 078 and has stuck with it. he put a 3rd vote on in RVS, possibly scummy but overshadowed by my actions. he claims to be voting for me because i'm closer to lynch than ric, which is true, and acts as though this lynch is in the bag. is avoiding boat rocking pretty hard, and has posted 8 times.

Auditor might have been hiding behind his verse, but stopped due to extreme adverse reactions by the town. recently votes without quite enough justification, citing his going away. i think he's fine though, not very scummy.

Cyren reacted poorly to being called a lurker and seems to misrepresent my position on her and Raiel. other than that, has done good scum busting and posts well. shares the top of my suspicion list with Sideney.

Echo is after me for a contradiction that doesn't exist. focuses a bit much on me, but did a good job mitigating this with his most recent post. other than on my self, shares the same suspicions. not very scummy.

Haylen is catching up. has a memorable avatar so i don't mess up her gender. i think her posting of WIFOM is just fine so long as it is understood to be such. probably not scummy although i'd like her to post more so i can be sure.

Raeil lurks.

Ric is a cool guy. he posts big, posts often and posts well. he pushes when i push back, yet doesn't concentrate on me. him being ok with a contradiction in his logic is odd, and his oft used defense of 'it depends on what you mean by defend/attack' is getting old quick. sofist. (ooooh buuuurn!) not very scummy.

and now back to Anicollie. as is being pointed out by others, Anticollie said "onion is probably our choice", but continues to warn against turning a blind eye to everyone else. he seems to consider me defense insane and bullshit although i'm not quite sure why is isn't giving real analysis instead of name calling. the most noticeable player in our game for sure. scummier than Auditor, but less scummy than Sideney.

perhaps i should change my vote to Sideney due to being the most recently suspicious. he (and Anticollie perhaps) thinks he has this lynch decided, which is scummy with so many days left to cover. despite both being high on my list, i don't think Cyren and Sideney are partners. they just don't match up well enough.

[onion]

wow! new people make things move much faster. i am pleased.

i tend to include player lists in my posts because it is a safe place to keep my notes without loosing them. it is there for me primarily and if it helps out anyone else, the better. it's also a place to keep my suspicions that are currently on the back burner.

it doesn't seem right to vote for Sideney now that he has so many votes on him. i had growing suspicions before, but they weren't put-you-at-lynch-minus-one suspicions. Sideney's 163 is so scummy it must be tongue in cheek. he deserves a vote put on him for it, and he's already gotten one (or two). the statement, however, fits nicely with his apparent standpoint that today is already over, thus it warrants the amount of suspicion that it is already receiving.

new people yay!

Raskol (Auditor) it totally being useful and not simply waiting for this day to end. he currently suspects me and Sideney, which does not seem to be what Auditor thought. from what i read he suspected Ric and me, but backed off to focus only on me. Raskol's case on Sideney is well put but i disagree that Sideney not voting for Echo was scummy. rest of it's good though.

continuing with the defense of my actions, it is a fair assumption that only a scum would hammer, or a pro-town with proof would hammer, so early. in either of these cases we guarantee at least one scum kill, which would be totally awesome for the town. Cyren flipping scum would not tell us anything about the alignment of the hammerer, but we'd have killed a scum anyway so it'd be fine. i didn't consider a pro-town having info a possibility in my initial defense, and so i didn't include it. i did not put Cyren at L-1 because i particularly suspected her. i had but one iota of evidence which has since almost vanished under the weight of other stuff.

my suspicions are of Sideney, Cyren and Anticollie in that order. Cyren's scummyness stems mostly from 122 in which she over reacts to both my statement and Raiel's question. Anticollie's scummyness is but a gut feeling and i have nothing significant to hang it on currently. i mistrust him because he sets up his opinions to have more weight than others without actually sharing more information than others. i'm cool with analytical types, but they are only more valuable if they show where the numbers are coming from (so we know they are not just making it up).

other new guy is Nikanor (Raeil). he quickly got his vote on Sideney. his statement in 165 indicates that Sideney will be less suspicious if i flip town, which does not seem correct. perhaps it is just me misunderstanding it. no big post from this guy yet, but i look forward to it because i had a poor read on Raeil.

Ric, you followed up this bandwagon pretty quickly without significant suspicion of him before hand. i'm having a not-easy time finding your 'stated reasons'; plz to point them out for my convenience.

happy scumday Vi!

[onion]

probability speaking, it is unlikely a day one lynch will hit a scum (2/9), so post analysis and whatever useful stuff you can dredge up is useful in increasing this chance. i don't think you'd ever be able to get it above the 50% mark, which is probably supported by most games lynching a townie the first day.

i support Raskol's argument because it cropped up in my last game also, and made sense there too. given two equally scummy characters, the one that is more anti-town should be the lynch. this situation only rarely comes up though, because it is unlikely that two people are of equal scummyness.

on the flip side, the argument could possibly facilitate scum getting anti-towns lynched unless proper care is given. while killing off annoying players (Exalt in my last game, and a there was mild talk of it with Auditor earlier too) might improve your game experience, it does not cause you to win (unless you're scum).

page 5 isn't that big of a deal so long as you have pizza and beer (or highly caffeinated soda if that's your shtick) to power you though it. i'd prefer everyone to read it at some point.

i've made plans to go be social all day 4th of july. The deadline is 7:00pm mountain time, which puts it in the middle of my celebrations. how cruel of our mod. missing just me, won't be too worrisome but if other people will be missing too there might be a reason to be worried.

[onion]

the problem with your equation is it makes it possible for the better lynch to less likely scum. anti town behavior will never be as damaging as a scum on the loose, because anti-towns are not taken into account to determine when the town looses. i can't write the better equation in math, but i can write in in Boolean.

Code: Select all

let S(1) represent the scummyness of player (1).
let A(1) represent the antitown actions of player (1).

if S(1) > S(!1), lynch S(1).

if S(1) = S(2), consider anti-town actions.
if A(1) > A(2), lynch A(1).
else, lynch A(2)

Sideney seems to have both a strong scummyness and antitownieness. he pushed for a lynch far too early, does not contribute, and generally seems apathetic to the town's needs. most could fall into antitown, but his consistency of his behavior is what makes it scummy. right now, it's just active lurking. thus...

Unvote: Lynch(Cyren)
Vote: Sideney

i have my eye on you Anticollie. you have become much more inactive the past few days. i only tossed a little suspicion your way, no reason to get all sneaky and vague about it.

Lurking. Scum. Lynch her. Today.

woah now. you're pushing for Haylen? let's see what i can find on her.

072 - she was the first to threaten Auditor with a lynch if he didn't stop posting in verse.

081 - and yet seems to understand what he's saying just fine.

081+ has posted nothing useful since. thus active lurking is an accurate assessment. she promises a post soon, so i'll wait for that.

yay, doesn't everyone write in notepad? it sucks to go searching the thread for something you need only to discover you left your half written post behind.

[onion]

now now children, let's keep it civil. Haylen, your case on Auditor has some holes to be poked in it, and Raskol's doing a good job it. it is not cool to degrade players for inexperience in a noob game, because that's why we are here.

now if you notice, Raskol's using the exact defense yall were afraid of way back when Auditor started posting in verse. scummy can just as easily be regarded as misinterpretation. Raskol picked the arguments he could win and passed on the ones he didn't think he could. now he's picking up speed against Haylen.

She being active in other threads being too busy to post a larger post here seems reasonable. i understand how difficult it is to put together a large post, when compared to multiple smaller posts, and were were pressuring her for it too. that being said, Raskol's big list of your posts is a pretty appealing argument. if there wasn't a deadline looming, i would not consider Haylen slackatude to be scummy, but now that she's wasting daylight i am inclined to think differently.

i'm really liking Raskol's style here. the focus being only on Haylen is a bit much, but he's doing some work here which is useful to the town. i support Raskol's defenses (about notekeeping, and SLIP!!!), but i don't support later two points. Haylen posting less content than Auditor should not be a factor in determining which one has a better point, nor is Haylen (who seems rather scatterbrained) forgetting who replaced who out of the question. her vote against you is supported enough by her arguments that it should not be considered an OMGUS.

Haylen, it is unlikely that lurking is WIFOM because otherwise accepted practices like Lynch-All-Lurkers would not be so popular. also, you're condemning Raskol for being a noob in a noob game again.

with any luck there won't be a post between me pasting this in and hitting submit. i keep having to add new lines to respond to new posts.

[onion]

i missed questions?...
ah from 187 i guess. (right?)

i tend to include player lists in my posts because it is a safe place to keep my notes without loosing them. it is there for me primarily and if it helps out anyone else, the better. it's also a place to keep my suspicions that are currently on the back burner.

Why not use a word document? I see no reason why something that is mostly for you should need to go onto the thread, especially if it is not the kind of info that is going to help town.

because i often post from public computers around campus, and thus i'd need an online document (like provided by Google Documents). but once i started saving my notes online, i had the desire to share them with the rest of the players, but that is against the rules (communicating outside of the thread) so now i keep condensed notes at the bottoms of my posts. it isn't intended to be not helpful, just a place for me to put things that are not the main argument. some times it is useful for other players, and at worst just takes up space. i can reduce the size of the text or something if you feel it is taking up too much screen for the value of the words.

new people yay!
Raskol (Auditor) it totally being useful and not simply waiting for this day to end. he currently suspects me and Sideney, which does not seem to be what Auditor thought. from what i read he suspected Ric and me, but backed off to focus only on me. Raskol's case on Sideney is well put but i disagree that Sideney not voting for Echo was scummy. rest of it's good though.

You need to elaborate on why you agree with and disagree with the parts of it that you did. I don't get any benefit from just seeing which parts you like and which you don't, and neither does the rest of the town.

the only part of your initial argument i had fault with was that you were considering Sideney's 045 scummy. it didn't seem that voting or not voting had any bearing on the situation at the time, and so you calling Sideney out for not voting seemed far fetched. not voting for someone (especially so early) does not seem like a good scumtell at all.

it doesn't seem right to vote for Sideney now that he has so many votes on him. i had growing suspicions before, but they weren't put-you-at-lynch-minus-one suspicions. Sideney's 163 is so scummy it must be tongue in cheek. he deserves a vote put on him for it, and he's already gotten one (or two). the statement, however, fits nicely with his apparent standpoint that today is already over, thus it warrants the amount of suspicion that it is already receiving.

continuing with the defense of my actions, it is a fair assumption that only a scum would hammer, or a pro-town with proof would hammer, so early. in either of these cases we guarantee at least one scum kill, which would be totally awesome for the town. Cyren flipping scum would not tell us anything about the alignment of the hammerer, but we'd have killed a scum anyway so it'd be fine. i didn't consider a pro-town having info a possibility in my initial defense, and so i didn't include it. i did not put Cyren at L-1 because i particularly suspected her. i had but one iota of evidence which has since almost vanished under the weight of other stuff.

This seems inconsistent to me. Care to explain why it was okay to put Cyren at L-1 for basically nothing, while your (presumably more substantial) suspicions of Sideney don't warrant an L-1?

i did not vote for Cyren because i suspected her. it was a primarily random vote, placed on one of the two players who crossvoted. i put it on Cyren because it has the added bonus of possibly tricking a scum into hammering, which would catch us a scum. plus it was fun. by comparison, Sideney has a real case built against him, with real suspicions things to think about, and it would not do to whimsically vote at this time. the same argument does not apply for this later L-1 because there is enough evidence abound that the hammerering scum would stand a chance defending themselves, thus it would be best to avoid a situation where the scum can easily control the day lynches.

@Echo, yeah read the sentence without the interjection for it to flow better. '...nor is Haylen forgetting who replaced who out of the question.' as in 'it is not out of the question for scatterbrained Haylen to forget who replaced who.' voting for Raskol because of suspicions placed on Auditor is legit because we know they share the same alignment. Haylen's argument is based completly on Auditor, and so it doesn't seem to matter who his replacement is. not bothering to look up the name before posting is defiantly lazy, but in this situation i consider it anti-town instead of scummy.

does answering your questions count as appeasing you?
yeah baby. show me that hot quote in quote action!

[onion]

good morning! let's get cracking.

just for ric:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goatse
aka one of the more horrible things on the internet.

the arguments that Raskol passed up were mostly the ones we already know. he didn't go up against the posting-in-verse-might-hide-your-scummyness argument, but that's because it's probably true. he also didn't hit on the bribing-raeil scenario, which i'm not sure i completely understand myself. (perhaps Haylen would like to rephrase that for my convenience.) he also didn't immediately jump on her not-quite-appeal-to-emotion, which seems odd because he jumped on everything else. he probably just missed it. anyway, Raskol choosing to pass on these arguments isn't scummy right now because they were either not very good, or we already knew them.

ok Sideney, you act like scum incarnate but Raskol says your meta shows you always do this. i guess i have to do the whole meta thing myself too, so i might as well get started. (this meta analysis is powered by awesome home made bacon/cheese/ranch dip!)

so i open up his profile and search for all 155 posts by him.

and here we are at Newbie 788, that game everyone was complaining about earlier.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11476

031 - hay this seems much more useful than his posts in our game.
059 - here he l-1 someone, justifying his vote by saying "i like that wagon".
090 - here he is avoiding putting someone at l-1.
106 - general vote hopping all over the place.
205 - holy crap a bonified post!
and the game ends.

conclusion from that one is that Sideney posts 1 liners not very often, and acts scummy when he's the doc. He did have a good post though.

and now on to Mini 791, which he seems to have been replaced out of.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11482

033 - he confirms, votes and vanishes for the next 100 posts.
150 - hes back! with nothing useful to say.
338 - and is eventually replaced with Mastin without much of use to me.

well that one was less than useful, moving on to Mushroom Kingdom Mafia
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8558
nope, he got replaced in this one too. (and while being Luigi too!)

well at least he isn't lurking to replacement in this one (yet). all in all the meta research was not very useful but did take a lot of time. the only game of use was 788, in which he seems to put more effort into his posts than he does here. he managed one better post, and showed some discretion about voting, which he does not seem to be doing here. i'd call him More Dangerous in this game than he was in the last.

i'm not seeing where Raskol gets this notion that Sideney's actions are less scummy. his playstyle is not similar enough to the previous one to draw many useful conclusions.

well that was a lot of work. was i supposed to be responding to something else too?

Haylen changed her avatar and now i get confused who she is.

Haylen's the female one. That was the point ~Vi

hi Lynch, welcome to the game. the name Lynch will always be capitalized, while the action 'to lynch' will never be capitalized.

[onion]

oh snap, i show up to post about stuff but the day's already over. we hammered with 15 hours left? anyway my 4th was Amazing and i burned the hair off my arms with a home made artillery shell. apparently we are allowed to post in twilight so i'll list for usefulness. here's some suspicions before i know the flip.

Anticollie - i'm suspicious of this guy for posting lots without posting content and general gut feeling scummitutde.

Raskol - up a little for wanting me to appease him and supporting lynching superantitowns over incompetent scum.

Lynch(Cyren) - despite what sideney says, the hammer does create suspicion. (but not very much), also some from Cyren, although that's wearing off.

Echo -

Haylen - up a little for senselessly attacking Nikanor.

Nikanor(Raiel) -

ric -

[onion]

hi hi here again. my ending day 1 post was made in a hurry because i wanted to post before the thread was locked for the night. the result was a rushed post not up to my usual standards. i myswrote names of new replacement people and i apologize. Haylen senselessly attacked Raskol as i'm sure everyone remembers.

NKing Anticollie seems like an odd choice. i mean he was the IC which would make him a target, but he was being useless and lurking. i guess the lurking = power role train of thought might make sense but it may be giving the scum too much credit. it seems WIFOMy to get too deep into it, as Raskol clearly showed.

Raskol is generally lashing out at everyone within reach right now. while i concede to the naming error, i stand by my statements of Anticollie, Raskol and Lynch. Anticollie had many many big posts which sure had tons of stratagy info, but wasn't about this game, and so he was 'posting lots without posting content'. also i don't think my posting of gut feelings should convince you of anything other than me having them. (would you prefer to not know my gut feelings?)

Raskol, i don't feel that my simplification of your who-should-by-lynched chart is inaccurate. i guess i'll just ask you so this can all be cleared up. does your plan ever allow for anyone to be lynched if there is someone else more likely to be scum?

Lynch hammered early thus removing my ability to post before the lynch. this brings a tad bit of suspicion on him, which i feel is justified for the situation. my suspicions of Raskol are growing at this point in time, although him being so much more active than everyone else gives me more to draw from, and so it doesn't seem justified.

Sideney, now proven town, suspected Haylen and me, neither of whom are very high on my suspicions list. however we can stop second guessing his statements now, so there might be something in there of use. i may go digging though his posts to see what i can find. Anticollie didn't post suspicions anywhere near the end of the day, although he was voting for me and in 194 expressed interest at a me-ric pair. neither of these two are very high on my scum list either, and i doubt these suspicions reflect events that happened after they were posted.

and so. nobody to be zomg suspcions of right now. Raskol's kicking up dust and Lynch is defusing him. i'd like to see more Nikanor too to see what he says about ric's suspicions (they seem legit and i share them.)

dammit i keep having high opinions of ric! i don't want to give more credit to what he says simply because we share a major, but i agree with what he says and don't suspect him much at all. if you would, outside viewers (aka not ric) give me some reasons why i should be suspicions of ric it would be most appreciated.

[onion]

onion is looking alive! (sort of). i apologize for being prodded.

Nikanor is scumming it up hopping his vote on and off of Echo. however, he is voting for Ric. could you flesh out your suspicions of him more so i can have more info? i don't remember Ric attacking me much lately which does seem off from where i am in his suspicions. but that does not seems worthy of a vote. Ric questioned Nikanor, who then voted for him for not good enough reasons it seems.

Haylen is expressing suspicions of Lynch. i'm having a hard time digging through the pronouns to get at what she's saying though.

gah! every time i read this again it annoys me all over again. i'll just rant about it to get it over with.

First of all: there are things I hate more than repeating myself unnecessarily, but not many. All my posts still exist, go back and read them. If you have any specific questions about things I've said, holes to poke in my posts, or anything like that, then out with them. But I'm not going to go back and rewrite everything just because you can't be bothered to go back and read.

i don't know what your suspicions are and i don't know that they are accurately reflected in your past posts. i think that having more information now would allow you to only rephrase them in more accurate ways than they were previously. repeating your suspicions and ideas lets them be well understood which is exactly what a pro-town should attempt to be. there seems to be no advantage to saying 'screw you go look it up' when you could simply answer the question in less words. gah.

ok where was i? right. Lynch. throughout the argument between Lynch and Raskol, Lynch seemed to play the voice of reason, warning against lynching without gathering more information, asking questions and getting more balls rolling. we went in swinging but didn't get to dirty all told.

Haylen puts up 4 suspicions in 357.

"- Says he though both targets were town, and then says Onion should have been voted off yesterday (who he said he thought was town)"

Prelynch he stated he thought both targets were probably town, and hammered anyway. i support his hammer because a no-lynch would still have been less useful. i'm not easily finding where he says i should have been lynched yesterday (page me?)

"- Advocates policy lynches. Not only is insisting on a policy lynch scummy, but it is also poor form."

i'm also not finding where in day 2 he advocates a policy lynch. if you are referring to the end of day 1, then yes he did, but i agree that it was the right thing to do at the time.

"- I'm apparently on top of his scummy list, when he has a better case on Echo, and his case on Echo is better than his case on Anticollie. Yet Echo is only 3rd on his scum list. Bussing?"

what? where? post number? was this from day 1?

"- Says he (Raskol?) was tunneling Onion. Bullcrap was he, and anyway, i thought he (Lynch?) thought Onion was town? Also says that he's(Lynch) asked the town not to tunnel. That's a slip right there."

yeah ok pronoun problems here. can you rephrase this so i can understand it better?

I guess my all in all objection to Haylen's suspicions is that she didn't include post numbers for me to reference. i don't want to assume she's referring to one thing when she's referring to something else so i'll wait for more information before continuing. i don't think Lynch is without suspicion, because he hammered and is sort of answering questions for me when he should not, but i don't yet see where Haylen is coming from. (the short is: Haylen might be right, but i'm not taking her word for it.)

i'm supposed to be thinking about Echo too. there is tension between him and Nikanor so i'll do them as a pair. Ric expressed some stuff about Nikanor who promptly jumped on him. then later Echo questioned him and he promptly jumped on Echo. the quote was indeed out of context and Nikanor backed off in a hurry. This doesn't say much for Echo but reflects poorly on Nikanor. Echo's 'when i play as mafia' WIFOM shall be disregarded as WIFOM me thinks. (would a scum tell us what he did when he was scum?) so i guess i think Echo measures up as town when compared to Nikanor who seems more scummy.

Raskol your disagreement with why policy lynches are bad fits right in with your lynching anti-towns theory. at least you are consistent. also you didn't answer my question so i'll repost it for you.

"does your plan ever allow for anyone to be lynched if there is someone else more likely to be scum?"

so there. my current suspicions are of Raskol for talking too much and Nikanor for votehopping.

[onion]

my suspicions of Raskol primarily draw from page 14.

my suspicions of Raskol are growing at this point in time, although him being so much more active than everyone else gives me more to draw from, and so it doesn't seem justified.

he just started posting a whole lot and shift in play style made me uneasy. well he also isn't answering my question so i guess that makes me uneasy with him also.

Lynch, your hammer warrants suspicion because it was placed at a point in time that negated my ability to chime in on the vote. if you hammered an hour before the deadline, then you'd be fine. but someone just might have thought of something over american explosion day and hammering early would be a way to prevent them from sharing. this suspicion is not large though and you seem to be reacting to it with more effort than warranted. short: it's good that someone hammered, but you hammered a few hours too early, and being confused is a wifom excuse.

Nikanor is my prime suspect at the moment, but i'd like him to show me his case on Ric some time because i want to understand a case on Ric.

Haylen i didn't mean to put so much on your shoulders with requesting post numbers and such. i would like them, but you can focus on chunks or something if you'd like.

[onion]

oh noes Ric got replaced. i liked that guy.

Lynch, i'm pretty sure i disclaimed that 'this suspicion is not large' (388) and it seems you are the one getting all uppity about it. i'm prepared to file it away for now, however, as there is a more scummy target right now.

Raskol, well i got a problem with your who-to-lynch rules. discussing and arguing about it are proactive but if you actually try to lynch an anti-town over a scum things might get dicey. while killing anti-towns might improve the gaming experience and make you feel good, in the end we still loose because we're lynching townies. there should be no situation in which we don't lynch the most scummy person or nolynch. (there are a few rare circumstances when we should nolynch, right?)

Haylen isn't very scummy. my current complaint is that she hasn't been citing her suspicions and so i can't varify them. her advice to the town isn't wrong but it might be pointed. i guess it might be that you caution away from a lynch on someone who lurks and lies. that doesn't directly describe anyone right now, but i'll keep this in mind. Haylen's been generally active and pro-town and assuming her references start trickling in some time, there will be little problem.

so Raskol and Haylen say things that annoy me or that need more info but me not liking them is hardly reason for me to suspect them.

Nikanor now. i'd still like either you to explain your former case on ric or to say it was bunk and i'll stop trying to understand it. don't go all Raskol i-don't-repeat-myself on me now.

i just watched America's Got Talent for the first time and it was bad. is that apostrophe in the name even accurate? i didn't know America Has shortens to America's.

[onion]

not to though this whole 'thead is dead' thing for a loop but i'm moving over the next week. it is likely i'll be able to check the thread at least once every 3 days, and probably more often. at this pace doesn't look like i'll need to do much catching up at least.

Vote: Nikanor

just in case it matters while i'm (more) inactive.

[onion]

oh snap the deadline is dying! post post!

i'm still looking for a good case against Ric. i tried to build one myself but i feel sort of conflicted about it so i'd prefer one from a 3rd party. the only person that was working on him was Nikanor i think but he doesn't want to help me it doesn't look.

it might be because i'm voting for him. his page 15 vote hopping is my primary concern, and it is looking like he didn't have good reason for voting for Ric now too. by these powers combined, he is my best target at this moment.

Nikanor and Haylen did the whole bonding thing on page 16, and now she's building a case against Lynch who is voting for Nikanor. this is far to removed to be good evidence against Haylen but hey it's something. Haylen's crazy antics pretty much fit her playstyle, and she's been useful enough so far. i don't really suspect her.

Lynch played the voice of reason against Raskol during the page 14 fiasco. i'm not against a case against him because he might be scum, but i don't currently have strong suspicions of him either. maybe Haylen can change my mind.

page 14 antics notwithstanding, Raskol hasn't acted scummy yet. he seems sort of angry but that isn't a scum tell. he also has strange ideas of who should be lynched but simply expressing them is just fine. he hasn't done anything very scummy yet but i leave the possibility that he will open.

Echo hmm. oh hey Echo actually posted so i can respond to that. yay.

i don't say i'm not suspicious of ric, rather i feel that i'm not the best person to build a case against him. i really like the way he posts and thus i'm not impartial. i'd really like to see a case built against him so i can judge if my like of him is because he's a philosopher or if he's towny. a different tactic now presents its self because he got replaced and i can judge the new guy. (too bad he hasn't posted anything yet.)

Echo here might be misframing my position with Ric, or he might have misunderstood. do the rest of you find his summery of my position on Ric in 420 to be misleading or did i fail to express it properly in my previous posts? anyway, in an attempt to clear this up: i'm partial to Ric and so should not be the one to initially judge him.

Nikanor - vote hopped, thus scummy.
Haylen - generally good natured and townish.
Lynch - Haylen thinks he's suspicions. maybe he is.
Raskol - i have my eye on you.
Erik - withholding judgment.
Echo - suspicion is growing.

PS: my page numbers are all based on the generic 25 posts per page output. if you are one of those crazy people who changed that setting then these post numbers won't be right, but you should tell me and i'll try to accommodate you.

[onion]

Nikanor did some vote hoppage which seems like the most scummy thing today. he changed his vote more in that one page than in the rest of the game.

323 Start of Day 2.

351 Voted: Ric for fencesitting, then backed off.
368 Voted: Echo for Scumslip, but then backed off.
371 Unvoted

426 Voted: eRic for buddying.

his excuse of misreading posts may or may not be true, with no way of figuring out. i didn't find the posts confusing or misleading at all.

an extra minor thing is his 426, which i'll respond to right now.

@Nikanor 426. a 3rd party is someone who is hopefully unbias and not one of the two primaries in an argument. it's the same as perspectives actually. first person perceptive is 'me', second person perspective is 'you' and third person perspective is 'them'. i did intend to imply game groups in this statement although i do believe that eRic is townish and you are scummish. that does not mean that the town would not benefit understanding why you voted for Ric and are so again.

your 426 post seems to say 'no i'm not going to post a case against him, but just vote for him.' which is totally not the way to be pro-town. can we get a few more paragraphs about why you are voting so that it can be properly analyzed?

but Nikanor is in no way guaranteed to be mafia. for one thing, his location on the day 1 lynch is a strange place for a mafia to be. Mafia don't tend to be the first vote on and keep it there. Especially considering i was so close to being lynched.

@Haylen. while i'd prefer a info filled perfectly organized post, simply getting your information out here is better than this lurkage. post it in chunks or something, but get it out here cos the clock is ticking.

[onion]

because he shares an alignment with Ric whom is low on my list.

[onion]

oh come on! we don't get an extension for half the thread being MIA? i'm managing to stay active enough even with moving and all that but i guess this game just isn't a priority for some. anyway we probably should not no-lynch, and my vote is where i think it should be, but i'd move it to prevent a no-lynch. so let's get with the program and pile all these votes on someone before it is too late.

[onion]

yeah fine. there just isn't enough time to do much about this. i was really hoping for a deadline increase.

don't lynch me, i'm the cop. i investigated Anticollie last night. so now at least i get night killed instead of lynched, big improvement. well i guess there could be a doctor...

i wasn't getting a good lead on him, and because he was lurking i didn't think the scum would kill him, but they did so i got nothing right now.

Nikanor is my suspicion right now, but he's totally not guaranteed to be scum.

[onion]

5.

I'm dead. Can I still post?

No. Once you're dead, you're dead. Dead people don't talk. They don't even say "bah". You can watch from the sidelines, but that's as far as your activity in this topic gets.