Newbie 952 - Murder on Newbie Street! (GAME OVER)

[SilentoBoborachi]

1. My experience in mafia consists of one game in real life. As I find it interesting, I want to learn more about it and get more experience.

2. I would say being town would be more interesting, the one time I was mafia in the real life game it seemed to be more of a waiting game of slowly whittling down the townies. As townie, the total paranoia makes the game what it is.

3. In terms of whether the real life mafia was better than forum mafia, I'll tell you once this game is over.

[SilentoBoborachi]

What if your gut has a stomach ache?

[SilentoBoborachi]

I prefer a mix between both RVS and RQS.

I like everyone who nitpicks in RVS, I think it's a good way to start.

I don't like how Damon_Gant hasn't even posted yet. It's been nearly 24 hours since the start of the game. He's a SE, he should know better than that.

unvote vote Damon_Gant

From what I have been reading, this could be a policy of lurking until the last moment of the day, to give people less information to make judgements on. Or he/she could simply be busy.

Better to be paranoid, and since people are jumping on my bandwagon I'm going to jump on someone else's.

vote Damon_Gant

[SilentoBoborachi]

I'm not sure what more you wanted out of me as far as reacting to the Damon_Gant wagon. I informed the town that he was at L-1, and stated my opinion that I didn't see it as a sensible lynch. I didn't come out strongly because frankly, if someone had quickhammered, it might have really helped us down the line. We would have had a strong scum candidate for day two, because whoever hammered would have not heeded both your warning that quickhammers are bad, and my warning that Damon_Gant was at L-1. I'm willing to trade one townie to set up 4:1 going into day three.

I like this reasoning more, better than my reason for voting in which I really just wanted him to respond. Like haylen said, it "should" get your attention. Also, I wonder why didn't anyone come in as the hammer, is is because no one wanted to look that scummy, damon's scum and so his buddy didn't want to come and lynch him, or is it because all the scum have already voted for him?

On one hand, if damon starts posting and seems innocent enough, I'll remove my vote. On the other, if he doesn't, I'm keeping it on. I think it is better to lynch a person you know nothing about. If he's scum, then you get the best outcome, but even if he's town, the people voting for him (and not voting) can be analyzed

[SilentoBoborachi]

since people are jumping on my bandwagon I'm going to jump on someone else's

Can you honestly say with a straight face that town would use that logic? "Oh well there's a wagon on me so I'm going to bandwagon on to any opposing wagon I can find.".

Dude, rvs time = votes have little or no deep purpose. If newbies are not allowed to joke/semi-joke vote, I need to know for future games.

I don't want to explain myself a second time, but it just seems everyone's going wild over my vote. It's mostly joke, but there was a deeper meaning as I also explained. If damon_gant was lurking as an SE, it got my attention as a possible suspect. Did I mean for it to almost lead to a lynch? For the most part, no, I liked the idea of using it only as pressure. However, in the end, I still hold on to the idea of lynching lurkers, though I am now editing it to just "lynch lurkers who should know better than lurk". And the fact that I mention he might be busy is the fact that I understand people can be busy and miss things, which is why I mention if damon gets in and starts talking (and seems innocent) I'll remove my vote.

Since Parama has taken damon's place, and has started speaking reasonably (mostly), if the votes are transferred, I

unvote Parama

. If votes are not transferred, then carry on.

And sword, your whole joke vote for me, then seemingly forgetting about your vote, and then explaining the reasoning (it was just a random vote) for your vote thing was indeed confusing.
Though I'll admit I did the same thing when I voted for damon since one of the big reasons I was voting for damon in the first place was because I thought I had two votes for me as well. At the time, I forgot you were the one who voted for me.
Whole thing was weird.

[SilentoBoborachi]

I had this on my post, then I took it off, I'm just gonna put it down here.

FoS on sword for being odd with the votes.

[SilentoBoborachi]

It's mostly joke, but there was a deeper meaning as I also explained. If damon_gant was lurking as an SE, it got my attention as a possible suspect. Did I mean for it to almost lead to a lynch? For the most part, no, I liked the idea of using it only as pressure.

What purpose would it have really served though? Even if Damon_Gant was intentionally lurking, he would have only needed to post something like "Sorry guys, I've been really busy with school/work/family stuff lately" and everyone would have unvoted.

what purpose would what have served? He didn't post it, is it because he really was busy (and since he has been replaced that has to have been it), or something more nefarious? If he posted something like sorry I havn't been here etc, that's an explanation that would/should result in him giving a timeframe of when he will be back, or something which would hold him to, and tada he's in the game, I can remove my vote, yes, but now he's got to contribute and can't swoop in to a L-1 or whatever else purposeful lurkers aim for in mafia.

However, in the end, I still hold on to the idea of lynching lurkers, though I am now editing it to just "lynch lurkers who should know better than lurk".

Everyone

should know better than to lurk. It seems that you're trying to throw reframe your actions in an attempt to help yourself.

I'm still developing my policy on lurking. I think its bad, but some points made here are somewhat valid.

And the fact that I mention he might be busy is the fact that I understand people can be busy and miss things, which is why I mention if damon gets in and starts talking (and seems innocent) I'll remove my vote.

This is the part that really confuses me. If you knew that he could have just been busy, why did you feel it necessary to vote for him in the first place? The first post of the game was made Thu May 06, 2010 9:00 pm. You called out Damon_Gant for lurking on Fri May 07, 2010 6:07 pm. It wasn't even one full day since the game had started, and you were worried about potential lurkers?

Because I had just entered the game, I wanted my first joke vote to be on something that wouldn't require this huge drawn out analysis of, mainly because there wasn't much to analyze yet. I reasoned on Damon_Gant because at the time I thought there was a bandwagon on me at L-3, so I was going to go vote for Damon_Gant for the lurking. The bandwagon is the

reason

I decided to voted, the lurking was

evidence

behind the vote. I wasn't that concerned that he was purposely lurking until it got much later. I liked the idea of getting his attention. And removing my vote if he posted.

Implying he's mafia by saying "It would be fun to be town" in his first post

Sorry for giving a generalized answer to a generalized question?

Voting for Damon with sketchy reasoning and then updating/expanding his reasoning (though claiming that the things he's adding are the original reasons)

Sketchy? I said its a bandwagon and im jumping on. The only evidence (lurking) I thought was obvious, since that's what sword voted for him in the post right above mine. In terms of rockhard suspicions of scumminess, there was none.

Being the L-2 vote on the suspicious Damon wagon

I'll concede this, in retrospect, putting him to L-2 was a bad idea even for a jokevote, because of the easy lynch. I'll check my jokevote next time to avoid that.

Making a weakly reasoned FoS at Sworddancer after saying it seemed like both of them were just confused.

I was confused, I have no idea whether Sword really was or not. And I still havn't gotten a clear answer on why he somehow forgot he voted for me in the first place.


tl/dr version:

MY VOTE FOR DAMON_GANT: rvs on bandwagon because of lurking

MY CONFUSION WITH SWORD:

unvote vote Damon_Gant

I didn't know the unvote was for me, so I jumped on a bandwagon when I thought I was being bandwagoned as well.

Just going to reset the confusion to 0. Sword, I throw in my hankerchief.

Removing my FoS with sword.

It's not nice to point anyway.

[SilentoBoborachi]

prodded, reading, weekends are bad for me, post coming soon

[SilentoBoborachi]

Sworddancer I still have scummy feelings for, even though it was misinterepreting votes that set it off, so that's not really a justification for ultimate scumminess, though it's a hard feeling to shake off.

Tomato seems scummy from the current evidence against him, but I'm willing to give him time to post something content worthy. It is tickling my anti-lurkerin' nerve though, and the prod post isn't helping.

Haylen's rvs bandwagon was not scummy to me, though Haylen, you gotta admit it is a strategy scum could use, if it is not an outright scumtell. And due to the horrific work hours Haylen posted about I understand why there hasn't been a huge amount of posts from Haylen. (I'm purposely avoiding using any gender pronouns because I can't remember what everyone's gender is).
But, I don't exactly like Haylen commenting on Llmarble seeming newb town, but not voting correctly, and thus seeming scummy. Wouldn't that be something newb town does? Also, saying MvK seems scummy but then saying "it's difficult to prove" doesn't do a whole lot for me. Ok, you've told me you're suspicious, but until you give me something to go on, there's nothing for me to reason out, based on that alone.

Everyone else I don't see anything major (it is 2 am EST so I may have missed something too) to address, so if I had to absolutely vote right now I'd say Tomato. However, I want to give some time for Tomato to respond, BUT I will be gone camping tomorrow(Monday) afternoon and won't be back until Tuesday afternoon. Thus, I will be much more inclined to vote for Tomato if the situation does not improve at that time, until then I have to just agree that the evidence against Tomato is suspicious. Haylen is not even finger-of-suspicion worthy scummy to me, and Sword is scummy only for my peace of mind (Sorry, sword).

I am interested that there is debate about whether page 6 is an ok place to set up a lynch or not, and yet Tomato seems to be in the cross-hairs.
on page 6. I may also be seeing too much into what is really just a tangent on general mafia playing guidelines

@Panama, I think leaving "probably" and "maybe" in is important, because otherwise you're saying that anyone who comes to a different conclusion has to present their evidence as well as disprove your evidence. I do not see why there cannot be multiple ideas as to who is scum, as long as there is evidence for both. Until the flip it cannot be 100% without a doubt be proven anyway, unless the scum really messes up. I will say I think you're entitled to agree with your vote as much as you want, since its your own evidence. You like your vote? As long as you have good enough evidence, go ahead and like it. Just remember that there may be equally good votes.

Oh ya, and this:

Sorry that your buddy is making himself so obvious, Silento. Don't worry, we all have to start somewhere.

Ya, it's a hell of a way to start off as maf- HEYYYYYYYY oh you sneaky SE you!

[SilentoBoborachi]

@Sword, is your ISO of Tomato still in the works?

Additionally, since you keep asking me the same questions, I'll try to give you the most succinct explanation. Again.

I voted for Damon because I THOUGHT I had two votes on me. Haylen, and YOU. Please stop forgetting that you voted for me, rvs though it was. You unvoted me, but the post was just "unvote vote damon_gant" no where in there was my name, and I didn't look it up, so for all my knowledge I still had two votes. Since it was an rvs on Damon, I really didn't have any evidence or "gut feeling" just the whole fact that he was lurking, and pressure like a vote on you should get you talking. I don't see why I can't rvs someone and then keep it on for what I think is a good reason. And as for me having a scummy feeling for you, I've already pointed out why, if you're not going to read it in the first place, I have no desire to write anymore about it.

Now, for Tomato. He hasn't posted for almost 4 days, longer if you ask for actual content. So, I'm going to go ahead and enact my lurker policy, and

vote Tactical Tomato

. Like with Damon, if you post content, and it shows effort, the vote goes away.

[SilentoBoborachi]

I know I said I'd be inactive, but I had a few spare minutes.

Silento said:

Sworddancer I still have scummy feelings for

Hot.
quote]

I blame the diarrhea on Sword asking me the same question all the dang time.

[SilentoBoborachi]

139: SilentoBoborachi comes in with a long post. It does nothing to address the suspicion on him. It certainly fails to address Llamarble's question to him in 135.

He asked who I thought was scum, and I said so. I've already addressed the suspicion over my rvs vote multiple times but only like one or two people actually seem to understand what I am saying, so I would much rather talk about something that people are willing to listen to.

155: Not liking this too much. He's willing to point out that others aren't posting content, when he himself isn't doing a whole lot of it. I'm also not in love with Lynch All Lurkers.

I pointed out Tomato, who is now at second prod, and whose lurking I am using as my reasoning for my vote, so his lack of content is tad bit important. And I know my lurker lynching is controversial, it's just the way I feel about it right now.

Lets try to make this even clearer, just in case. Lets say you were in some other game where you got bandwagon'd. According to how you've played this game, you would want to jump on someone else's bandwagon if this happened to you. But why though? Why why why why why? How is a bandwagon on you correlated with you jumpy on someone else's bandwagon?

I'd also love to know this.

IF YOU DON'T CARE WHY I VOTED FOR DAMON AT THIS POINT, IGNORE THE BELOW WALL-O-TEXT

If I came into a game, and within the first 2 pages there was already an established bandwagon on me, I would jump on it if the situation was the same, with a potential lurker. Do I need to repost my vote for damon, and the post right above it, Sword's, where HE ALSO VOTES FOR DAMON FOR LURKING. I agree with Sword's reasoning for the vote on damon, and vote as well. The situation I was in: It's rvs, I see an SE who isn't posting, I've read where lurking is a strategy, people are voting all over the place, I see two votes on me, I see Sword vote for Damon, I understand the reasoning and agree, and vote as well.
What part of this is unlogical, what part of this can you people not follow? I am trying to explain my reasoning, if you don't like my lurker lynching policy, fine, but that's no reason to lynch me just because you don't agree on policy. Sword, why do you jump on the Damon lurky bandwagon? Hint: I know the answer, everyone should know the answer, but since you keep asking me, and I keep answering you, now I'm just going to keep asking you. And you still don't admit that you voted for me in the first place.

SORRY PARAMA THAT THIS IS LONG-WINDED

[SilentoBoborachi]

Haylen, as an IC, I wanna know if during your games, a lurker actually did damage. Also, do you have any further insight on L-marble or MvK?

[SilentoBoborachi]

Okay Silent, just answer this question. If, hypothetically, in another game, there were two bandwagons, one of them on you, would you use that as a reason to jump on the other bandwagon?

Thank you for getting it down to a basic question, I'll try not to get terse with you in the future. If it was just a bandwagon, with no other factors, no I would not vote onto another bandwagon.

[SilentoBoborachi]

And hi shadow, if my vote for Tomato gets transferred to shadow, then

unvote shadow2222

otherwise, no worries.

[SilentoBoborachi]

And just in case I didn't answer the right question, the reason I got onto the band wagon that was a band wagon with additional factors, was, for the biggest reason, rvs.

[SilentoBoborachi]

It depends if a lurker vote during rvs can be considered a joke. I think it can be, because its not a vote that is meant to lead to a lynch, ideally in principle it makes those voted on respond, and the vote is removed. So yes, in my mind it was a joke, but since I did it under the auspices of lurking, I can't say 100% that down the line, once damon still hadn't posted, that it was still the joke it originally was.

I guess one thing that is different in this game from what I've been reading about mafia is that lurkers are pretty quickly eliminated by reckoner with the prods. I think my lurking policy is losing its luster because reckoner is essentially doing my job for me. There's really not that big of a reason to lurker vote when reckoner is just going to prod them, and then replace them. I think the policy would be more applicable closer to the lynch deadline, if there were no scummier candidates then those clearly lurking (like not saying why they're not posting when they were previously active). Anyway, I'm going to stop talking about this because this is going into more of theory and less this actual game.

---

Prodding Haylen.

D1 Vote Count #6

shadow2222 (2):

Llamarble, smashbro_of_the_SSS

SilentoBoborachi (3):

Haylen, Parama, ManfredvonKarma

Haylen (1):

shadow2222

Llamarble (1):

Sworddancer9034

Not voting (2): Exemption, SilentoBoborachi

[SilentoBoborachi]

My list:
1. Haylen (for reasons I have already posted, plus I'd like to know why Haylen is actually voting for me, last post about it is that it is still an rvs bandwagon vote because "I like having my vote on SilentoBoborachi, it the bandwagon is getting reactions from him and I would like to keep up the pressure for a li")

2. Shadow2222, because I don't know how much of Tomato was new, or scum filtering through. Plus, just saying "To me he seems like clear scum" and voting for me. I know it may be because shadow is rushed coming in after Tomato, but I would not think this would be valid reason for putting me at L-1.

3. I really don't have a third worth discussing. Make it Panama for the omgus factor giggles.

@Exemption, I know this will probably just get you to vote for me, but if you've got the evidence on your own terms, you make the vote. In general game theory. to me anyway, saying you're not going to vote until three other people tell you to screams of trying to cover your arse when the flip comes. You are essentially following what other people tell you. For example, Panama at least gives an explanation of the logic used. I disagree with the case, and thought I had explained myself multiple times (I still do not see this huge contradiction I've made) but the logic used is something I can respect. However, your evidence is "wierd jumping on other bandwagons vote and generally confusing player." If you've been reading the discussion I've had, I've admitted multiple times that the whole situation with sword and basically the whole issue was weird and confusing, for me. I think I've cleared it up with sword, and I thought everyone else, but apparently not.

Making the list, why is no one asking Haylen about the evidence she uses? Like I said at the start, the vote started out as an rvs bandwagon vote, very similar to mine, except I stated that my rvs bandwagon vote was going to be on a lurker. I'll keep this short, but I'll leave you with this:

Bandwagons put pressure on a player. They get reactions. RVS bandwagons = good.

Now i must go to work

People don't announce bandwagons, unless they intend them to be a joke. Encouraging a bandwagon on a player (and mindlessly hopping onto a bandwagon) are scummy. I highly doubt our IC would post anything like that unless it was a joke.

*sigh* bandwagoning in the RVS is not a scumtell.

Just want to make sure the lynch against me is because I made damon go to L-2 and because I used an actual reason for the rvs. Those are the only huge sins I am seeing so far.

[SilentoBoborachi]

reckoner, if you can, remove the first post, in this series, I copied the qoute tags wrong.

[SilentoBoborachi]

Didn't learn anything this game, which sucks. Still do not understand why I got voted D1. Though I will say I have played a few games online, and they are insanely long and tedious, I have no idea how you people can play multiple game.

[SilentoBoborachi]

Oh ya, and by the way, my first online game of mafia ever, I got D1 lynched because I lurked too much, made only a couple of posts. Used essentially the same logic the other people did in my reasoning of voting for damon.