Newbie 1080 -- Game over

[Jack Forman]

/confirm

Hello everyone how are we doing? This is my 2nd game of mafia, so you could say I am still a noob.

[Jack Forman]

I live in Seattle Wa USA, and I am going to try and post everyday but sometimes RL gets in the way.

[Jack Forman]

Welcome Quilford.

@Does Bo Know- That is the way Michael Crichton spells my name for a character in his book Prey.(That is my favorite book)

Vote:Shift

[Jack Forman]

Vote for no visible reason whatsoever.

• This vote looks highly suspicious to me -- Jack Forman did not produce any reasoning for it. In addition, apparently the third vote on a bandwagon is usually placed by scum (ugh, I know I had a source for this around somewhere, I'll post it in a minute), so I find Jack to be the scummiest here so far.

I didn't give a reason cus i thought that everyone knew that we are in the RVS stage and I voted Shift just to put pressure on him. Witch you said in your post #53

Isn't RVS all about putting pressure on people you find suspicious?

So therefore I was just saying I found him being suspicious cus he was not posting.

Welcome Quilford.

@Does Bo Know- That is the way Michael Crichton spells my name for a character in his book Prey.(That is my favorite book)

Vote:Shift

• This vote looks highly suspicious to me -- Jack Forman did not produce any reasoning for it. In addition, apparently the third vote on a bandwagon is usually placed by scum (ugh, I know I had a source for this around somewhere, I'll post it in a minute), so I find Jack to be the scummiest here so far.

Along with the vote, Jack Forman's whole post is a bit scummie. It even says in the paragraph about Lurking in one of the rule posts that it's scummie to just have a few random posts that don't have much to do with anything.

First off are you guys really worried about a bandwagon this early in the game? And I don't see anything random about my post... I said hello to a new member of the group.... I respond to a vote that some one placed on me cus of my name spelling(RVS) and gave them a reason for why I did it that way... And lastly i placed my vote(Rvs) to apply pressure.

[Jack Forman]

Unvote

I placed my vote on Shift to get him to talk some more by putting him at L-2, but now he is posting so I am going to take my vote back for now.

VOTE: Hiraki

I suppose maybe if I start voting, you guys will stop attacking me.

That's not the point. Why did you vote me now?

Didn't I say in the first post that you should do things logically or you will be lynched? Where's the logic here? Do you honestly believe that by voting me all the pressure will go away?

I would also like to know why you placed your vote on Hiraki.
But I think I am going to place my

Vote:martini

I don't know if any of you have seen it but it looks like he is lurking. Tell me if I am wrong, that is scummy.

Vote: brundibar

Definitely trying to throw suspicion without any evidence behind it. I've actually used this before as scum

We are still in the RVS for the most part and Brundibar is most likely trying to get people to talk just like everyone else is doing. So you have very little evidence to vote Brundibar, but you vote him anyways. Why is it wrong for him to do it but it is ok for you to vote that way? You said you have use this before as scum, so since you are doing it again does this mean you are scum again?

[Jack Forman]

First off I am tired of you guys saying my first few post were fluff when I was answering questions that people had posted in #16- Hiraki asked about experience and #24- the plague asked about time zones and number of post.

We are still in the RVS for the most part and Brundibar is most likely trying to get people to talk just like everyone else is doing. So you have very little evidence to vote Brundibar, but you vote him anyways. Why is it wrong for him to do it but it is ok for you to vote that way? You said you have use this before as scum, so since you are doing it again does this mean you are scum again?

My vote is 100% serious, and chances are that it's not changing anytime soon. Someone else will have to seriously mess up for my vote to go anywhere else today, or any day brundi is alive. He is being entirely hypocritical, has been throwing out the most random votes as one of his 3-4 FoS's while putting most of the pressure (flawed) on the others, and for the most part not helping town in anyway at all. I am dead serious when I say we've caught scum on Page 3. Minor suspicion goes to Jack if he's arguing that there's no more reason to vote Brundi than anyone Brundi is voting.

Shift I was not questioning you vote on Brundi, I was trying to tell the plague that Brundi vote was most likely RSV. I was not defending Brundi either, just saying his vote was RSV, you all made good points against Brundi I didn't feel the need to restate the points you guys had already made.
"It's pretty clear we're pretty much out of the RVS" is what you said in post#106, so are we or are we not done with RSV?? RSV is used to get more info out of people, witch is what everyone has been doing. Voting for people that are not posting is a way to apply pressure so we can get more info. That is what I was doing. So I am not saying that Brundi is not acting scummy, I was just trying to look at other people that I thought were being odd.

Alright. I've made my conclusions.

Unvote

Brundi is making newbietown mistakes. If he's scum, then GJ on the cover, because you're really making me doubt myself. For the moment though, we need better pressure on Jack.

Vote: Jack

But I think I am going to place my Vote:martini I don't know if any of you have seen it but it looks like he is lurking. Tell me if I am wrong, that is scummy.

Alright so you're going to place a vote on someone, but you're asking if your scumtell is a legitimate scumtell?

I was not asking if it was a scum tell I know it is a scum tell, I was trying to ask if any of you were seeing the same thing about him that I was, witch was scum lurking.

I will have more to say when I get back from taking my cat to the vet.

[Jack Forman]

I am VT! I wish I could claim PR, but I am not that lucky. I am sorry if I sounded like I was frustrated that was not my intention, I was only trying to get my point across so that you guys would understand me. I am still a noob at this, only my second game of mafia ever. With that being said I want to explain what I think is Lurking... when I think someone is Lurking I am saying... "why have you not posted in the last day to day and a half?" This makes me think at you may be reading the game with out logging in, and wait for your chance at the first strike of someone being scummy. Before you say I am wrong I would like you to take a look at the two pages I have posted.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Lurking
"When a player is intentionally quiet during a game's Day"... The two people I had said were lurking had not posted in about 24hours, and by placing my vote on them i was trying to apply a little pressure to get them to talk. If we wait to long they are going to post because they got prodded or they are going to get prodded.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lurking
#4. To read but not contribute to the discussion in a newsgroup, chatroom, or other online forum.
Even if someone has not logged on they could very well still be reading which to me classifies them as lurking until they post.
Maybe what I thought the definition of lurking was is not what is used by most people on MS.

[Jack Forman]

@Hiraki- Yes I am missing the point why you want me dead,

Alright. I've made my conclusions.

Unvote

Brundi is making newbietown mistakes. If he's scum, then GJ on the cover, because you're really making me doubt myself. For the moment though, we need better pressure on Jack.

Vote: Jack

But I think I am going to place my Vote:martini I don't know if any of you have seen it but it looks like he is lurking. Tell me if I am wrong, that is scummy.

Alright so you're going to place a vote on someone, but you're asking if your scumtell is a legitimate scumtell?

Is something wrong here?

From this post to your last post you nerver said you wanted me dead, just that you want to put pressure on me.

@The Plague- That is how I interpret Lurking to be, and even if it is a weak tell I am trying.

[Jack Forman]

To start I am sorry about my misunderstanding of the term "lurking". I was taking the definition straight from the wiki, and apparently that is not exactly how it is used in the forums.

Unvote

Moon- You say that having a eager vote is a scum tell cus #54 "mafia wants to get rid of town quickly"... so dose that mean the first person to vote in each game is scum? Someone has to get voted on to get people talking and I don't think that first/eager vote is a scum tell.

town

Brundibar-#70 "Removing my RVS, as it looks a bit less suspicious now"?? In #20 you vote moon because you did not like her hyperlink (RVS) you didn't need any logic behind it, it was RVS, if anything you look more suspicious by removing you vote after one person had voted you, then Hiraki votes you and you OMGUS vote on him. Why were you freaking out if you look back at it you had done nothing wrong by voting moon. Something else that strikes me as odd you are all over Bo in #109 because he took his vote off of me because I was at L-1 but in post #116 you don't place your vote on me cus that would have put me at L-1, so now you are set up so no matter how I flip you are in the clear.

slightly Scummy

Does Bo Know- #50

Shift has a very valid point; while he did make the mistake of voting in the wrong stage, it was just a mistake. I don't count that as anything from either side of him, and besides that, the only thing I did notice from

Shift was lurking

, but he posted very recently.

Now, I'd like to hear Jack Forman's reason for voting Shift, for the same reasons as Quilford: it's too close to lynching already, and there was no reason given.

Until then, the vote's staying.

You said Shift was lurking, after I placed my vote on him cus I thought he was lurking, and I was not a trying to start a wagon on Shift but trying to apply a little more pressure on him. #105

I don't like Jack's post. He explains his vote after we find him suspicious for not doing so earlier, he votes martini for lurking and asks if it's a scumtell (as Hikari basically stated earlier), and he attacks Plague's reason for voting brundibar (even though Plague's vote on brundibar was reasonable,

just no broken down

). I really don't see that as newbie as brundibar, like Plague suggests, but just mistakes that townies usually wouldn't make

For those reasons, I'm placing a

vote on Jack Forman

.

I was not attacking him but wanted reasons, Even you said just not broken down, all I wanted to know was just his reasons.

leaning town

Martini- He confirmed on Friday morning and did not post till Saturday night, and I just like to see everyone to be posting and I didn't see it from him at the time, that is why I voted him due to lurking just like I had voted Shift.

leaning scum

Quilford- You voted me in #59 about my vote being the third on the wagon and that being scummy-

Examples of scumtells are numerous. One of the earliest examples is the "third vote" scumtell, which stated that the third vote on the band wagon was very likely to be scum. Scumtells can be simple like that one, or complicated, such as the Deliberately weak argument developed by Seol. In this scum tell, the player A will put out a deliberately bad argument in the midst of several good ones. Check out Heroes smalltown where thestatusquo uses DWA on Zoneace. Notice that the second argument is deliberately bad, and screams for it to be attacked. The basis of DWA is that scum and town players have different motivations when arguing. A town player is going to be actively trying to find scum and determine who is town, while a scum player is looking to score points, or win arguments. This leads to different arguing styles.

Unfortunately, this scumtell is risky because sometimes town players can argue in the second style too, if they're not great at their jobs.

Notice in the example given zoneace was not scum, though he did fall for the DWA. JEEP's Common Tells are legendary, but have become almost completely obsolete, after he published them, based on the reasoning above about scum disincentive to commit known scumtells.

I already said this is only my 2nd game and obviously I am still learning how to play this game.

town

Shift- I would like to talk about post #90 you said "My vote is 100% serious, and chances are that it's not changing anytime soon." Your vote was on Brundi at the time... a few hours later you change you vote to me, so much for being 100%. Now lets go to post #121 where you quote me

I was

not defending Brundi

either

out of context I might add... This is what I said in #121

Shift I was not questioning you vote on Brundi, I was trying to tell the plague that Brundi vote was most likely RSV. I was not defending Brundi either, just saying his vote was RSV, you all made good points against Brundi I didn't feel the need to restate the points you guys had already made.

His Rvs vote on moon(and you can't tell me that vote was not rvs) was the only vote besides his OMGUS vote on Hiraki, that was the point I was trying to make before you changed it.

scum

Plague- #69 You vote brundibar and said that he had no evidence behind it, Brundibar's vote was RVS due to a bad hyperlink from moon early in the game. That is the only thing that bugged me about you.

town

Hiraki- in #60 you are defending me...

I don't get the points about Jack. Just because he doesn't have reasoning for it, doesn't mean it can't be random.

but then some how in #100 you vote me, and you comment on how you like the wagon on me, then #132

Y'know. Usually I'd object to a lynch on Page 6, but this really doesn't look bad. Jack is missing the point why I want him dead.

now you want me dead?? Sounds like scum, why don't you just jump out and push the wagon.

scum

Vote: Hiraki

[Jack Forman]

Just as an fyi for everyone wed nights(tonight) I have school have I go to work, so don't look for me to post a lot on this day. ty

@Bo I know that we are not in Rvs anymore, I was not talking about Shift sorry, where I had put his it should of been Brundibar's

His

Rvs vote on moon(and you can't tell me that vote was not rvs) was the only vote besides his OMGUS vote on Hiraki, that was the point I was trying to make before you changed it.

Jack seems to be repeatedly misunderstanding the meaning behind quite a few posts (I can't explain now because I am half asleep), but I can't quite tell if this is extremely bad scum talking or newbie town. To me it reads more like the latter, but this confusion is definitely something we could all do without.

Eagerly awaiting both Hiraki and theplague42's posts.

.
If you were half asleep how do I know if you are just misunderstanding me? And there is going to be confusion in newbie games, we are learning or at least I am.

Ha. Jack is challenging me. I'll admit that I thought I made a post that isn't here, but now it's go-time. When I get back home, I'm going to show everyone the obv. Jackscum.

That is funny, I could see someone that is scum saying that.

Ok I am not going to be able to post until after work tomorrow.

[Jack Forman]

I don't want to give up on this fight but it does not matter what I say someone will twist it to look bad or you will say that you can't understand what I am trying to say. When I flip town you guys should take a good look at the people in this wagon cus one of the will turn up scum.

It even says in the paragraph about Lurking in one of the rule posts that it's scummie to just have a few random posts that don't have much to do with anything.

Iso#2=Fluff
Iso#3=More fluff, RVS vote

Here people saying Fluff.

My vote on Hiraki was not OMGUS it was me wanting to know what he wanted me dead and the fact that I think he is scum now.