Newbie 1089: GAME OVER

[Thian]

Hello everyone, glad to be playing mafia with you all.

It seems we have a little more SE's in this game than most games I have played, but we do still have some newer players as well.
Welcome to mafiascum and the road to rome.

This is my first time IC'ing and am looking forward to helping out where I can to explain theories. I am also here to answer questions regarding terminology.

As much as I am here to help, remember I am also a player as well. I will do my best to be transparent with you all. I won't lead you astray when it comes to game mechanics and if I do not readily know something, I will do a little investigation and find out answers you might need when it comes to theory or terminology.

Just a few things I have witnessed in playing in the road to rome games to keep in mind.

1. We have approximately 3 weeks to this date to lynch, always keep in mind the deadline, do not rush a lynch if there is enough time to question.

2. Sometimes things in our lives stop us from being online, you may also feel that mafia is not for you, however, you have signed up for a game. Try to stick with it as best as you can. If you need to drop out, be absolutely sure you cannot continue.
Why? Trust levels are already at an all time low, it is harder to get to know a replacement, compared to someone who has stayed in the game since the beginning.

3. Find a happy middle ground in posting. Power posting ((posting every 5 minutes)) or not posting ((lurking)) can be harmful. Make your posts count, when they do.

Good luck to you all. Game post will be coming shortly.

[Thian]

Mcgriddle, good to play another game with you.

Random Question Stage ((RQS))

Questions:
1. Tell me about yourself, do you have any hobbies or interests?

2. What is your mafia experience on Mafiascum?

3. Why are you not mafia?

4. Are you lying about your previous answer?

5. Pick a Number please? One, Two or Three

6. Are you nervous about question 5? why or why not?

Random Vote Stage or also called RVS

Vote: Trumpet of Doom

Trumpets of doom = suspect = mafia.

Please note: If you do not have an avatar, it might be best to get one so it is easier to identify you while you post. Remember to bold your votes to make it easier for the moderator/host as well.

[Thian]

Vino and All, here are my answers.
1. some interests, videogames, music, camping and white water rafting.
2. Experience on Mafiascum. It is in my wiki but I've played 5 games, replaced into 1 and am currently playing this one which will be the 6th.
3. I'm not mafia because I wasn't given that role, I'm here to weed out scum and ensure they continue to post and not lurk.
4. Not lying.
5. Two
6. Nervous? Only depends on how this information will be used.

Trumpet of Doom: ((just observation, not game oriented))
You do have experience, quite a lot of knowlege, you seem versed enough to IC and are confident, I don't see why you didn't trust in your abilities to IC a game. Glad to have you around.

}|{opa:

Power Posting, it is fine as long as you are not just posting for the sake of posting as much as you can. Remember to allow everyone a chance to involve themselves in what is going on. They may see a different point of view than you would by dominating a conversation or debate.

Of course you won't agree with all points Trumpet of Doom is stating. Be mindful though, a general guide line, especially in the road to rome is bring forward the basics. It is best not to confuse newer players.
Basics such as, do not self vote:

Self voting as town, is genuinly not good ((even if you are trolling or joking as town)). You risk yourself getting lynched if scum are quick and clever to jump on that opportunity. You also are then playing against a town win condition if you begin to sacrafice yourself. Tell me why you believe self voting to be beneficial ?

Lying about your role, is not good practice. If you can't be truthful the first time about you role, how will anyone trust you later on when it counts? It is a risk that could cost a win. Yes, there will be times for power roles to hide and claim Vanilla Town ((VT for short)). However, in general practice, you want to be open, honest and transparent with all answers.

SigmaEXE003:
As an IC, Yes, I'm here to help you on game mechanics and explain things. However, I'm also a player, don't forget. I will explain a bit more about my line of questioning after, Rico, I am innocent and Mcgriddle answer.
I promise I won't leave you out in the dark.

Kiari:
I asked, "Why" you aren't mafia, you didn't answer it properly. You just told me you weren't. I want to know why you aren't.
I also asked you to pick a number, one, two, three. would you humor me and pick out of the choices given?
Kiari, why is Random Question Stage ((RQS)) stupid ? You don't seem interested in answering questions. Why? What are you hiding?
What made you decide to vote for I Am Innocent right after Trumpet of Doom decided Kiari?

[Thian]

Very well, Thian.

-I'm not mafia because I did not receive a mafia role PM. Obviously.

It's not as obvious to me.

-The number I choose on your list is Two. Or perhaps Three, I can't make up my mind. Wait, maybe One. Damn. They are all so tantalizing...

Difficulty answering a simple question hrm? you will pick 2 then seeing as it is the first number you put down. Try not to let your emotions/annoyance get in the way of scum hunting. It can cloud your judgement.

-RQS is stupid because people ask useless questions and then try to make other people look scummy based on their annoyance with how stupid the useless questions are, even though they quite obviously have nothing to do with anything. Also, because people try to use RQS as a useless example of how pro-town they are being, when in actuality they're not being pro-town at all.

Kiari, do you have a better strategy that you have developed? Random questions generate discussion. Calling questions stupid or useless or annoying makes me feel you fear it and that you do not understand the reasoning behind why it is in place. Do you prefer Random Vote Stage, RVS, compared to RQS?

-You're correct, I'm NOT particularly interested in answering useless questions. Why, you ask? Mainly because they're useless. But also because they're annoying, especially when the asker asks twice.

Failure to answer a question properly will prompt me to ask once, twice even three times, until you can. While I do agree, some questions may be useless in certain situations, it is all apart of an interrogation process. So what you feel is useless to you, might be useful to others. Don't dismiss so quickly.
((side note:)) you remind me of Cam. An IC who I had played with in past.

-No, I'm not hiding anything. Are you?

you are hiding something. What was the need to re-direct the same question back? It was out of pure annoyance which you are showing too easily.

You have had difficulty picking a number and choosing a side on a very simple question, when 4 was not an option. It makes me wonder if you will not be able to pick a side later down the road, when numbers become names.

-I voted I Am Innocent because he's the only one I have played with before, and was the only one who believed me last game.

So you vote for someone who readily believes you?

I am curious though: Statistically speaking, the likelihood of all "random" random votes being distributed evenly 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 across all players is practically nil. It is to be expected. Why the interest? Why are you worried about whether someone has two votes or not?

I want to get to know you better Kiari. there are better reasons to vote instead of using WIFOM as a starting point.


Mcgriddle:
I like playing town, I like problem solving and the interrogation process that comes with it.
Would you be able to answer the questions I've asked? Thanks. from playing in the past I understand day 1 is not something you enjoy, but you are willing to give it your best?

[Thian]

Sigma, do you care to place a vote? and maybe give a reason as to why?

[Thian]

Vino:
That's not the purpose of that post. That purpose of that post was to aknowedge that lying about your role is not good, yet there will be times that you need to. Not to out a power role. The continuation of discussion about them this early is not good Vino. So please don't bring that up right now.

[Thian]

Kiari:
Who is calling you scum? I'm just pointing out things I notice about your answers. Your tempermental responses are doing you justice in looking how you wish to be perceived. that is your own doing.
i'm not hiding anything.
Worried about two votes on someone? I'm not worried. More interested in your choice right after another voted.

[Thian]

Kiari:
You're presuming I am calling you scum. I just would prefer if you answer questions as they are intended. Muddling and fumbling or making light of an interrogation process, along with scoffing or calling them pointless, useless, stupid or annoying doesn't help anyone. When questions are posed, it is useful to answer them as they are intended. You may not see the relevence to them, but to others, it might give a bit of insight. That is what I am getting at, and I still had to force pick a number for you. That, I find interesting.

You are right Kiari, There are others that have jumped on the back of others votes, the reason I haven't question them about it is that, right now im getting to know you. I've taken note of it, prior to you asking about this, but my focus again like I said is on you. The reason why it is on you, is your resistance to basic questions and then getting annoyed and defensive when I call you out on that.

[Thian]

McGriddle:
Would you shed some light and pose an individual question to each person please?
As well, there are questions that have gone unanswered on the first page that I would like you to answer when you get some time. They really are quite easy.

Rico:
Glad to have you, ((off game note, hope your family is okay)) What differences have you noticed here compared to your other website where you play, do you find the play here more intimidating then? Who has given you the most scummy vibe in such a short time?

Currently Rico, you have placed I am innocent at L-2, L - 2 meaning two votes away from a lynch. Just FYI, although it isn't necessarily bad, I would suggest that if anyone else wants to put a vote on him be cautious you want to avoid the possibility of a quick lynch, when there is at least this much time left.

Rico, perhaps you can question I am innocent with a few things?

Sigma:
Thanks for your vote, would you tell us, what are you looking forward to most in this game besides winning of course.

[Thian]

Kiari is blatantly avoiding answering simple questions and keeps trying to turn the questions around on Thian, which seems fairly scummy to me.

First you tell us, Kiari turning questions back on me is scummy Presuming you meant the "What are you hiding Kiari" question and her replying "what are YOU, hiding Thian"

Vino91, what is the scummiest thing you have seen in this game so far.

Then, I am innocent asks

What do you think is the scummiest thing so far, I Am Innocent?

Then you ask the same question Vino later on turning it back on I am innocent, in the same paragraph as the first quote I posted of yours Vino.

So, in this instance, would it be fair to say, you had done exactly what Kiari has done, and would that be scummy?

[Thian]

@I Am Innocent:

I'm very suspicious of this little skirmish going on between Kiari and Thian, however,

I'm still trying to decide which side of the fence I sit on

.

Not a big fan of the way you worded that statement.

What the saying means is that I am, as of yet, undecided as to which of the two I'm more willing to back as being more town until I have analysed the situation further.

Vino, what happens if I am town and Kiari is town? You seem pretty sure that one of us is scum. Why is that?

[Thian]

Trumpet of Doom:
You've stated you have played a lot of games as town, yet only have been scum once or two times prior and that your scum play is horrible. Do you not think by playing town so much, it would be a lot easier to play scum because you know what town are looking for?

[Thian]

Vino, explain why you feel I am more scummy? What exactly ((besides a debate between Kiari and I)) has prompted you to feel I am more scummy than say, Mcgriddle who has not offered much in opening up? or }|{opa ? Who's line of questioning on religion at this point, I am trying to find relevancy with. Or Trumpet Of Doom who has offered more information on how to play mafia, than actually trying to scum hunt?

Are you not ready to question Kiari either Vino? What I don't understand Vino is, when you said you couldn't decide between Kiari and I which one is more town. The implication is at this point, that you believe one of us to be more scummy than the next. How can one be more town than another. you are either Town, or you are Scum. You can't really be MORE town. It's like sticking your hand in water. Once it's wet, its wet, it can't get more wet.


Also, I believe that when I am innocent had said that I am more scum than Kiari, he mentioned my name. you voted, because I am prompted you to do so, without giving proper reasoning behind it. A drive by voting so to speak.

[Thian]

unvote: Trumpet of Doom
Vote: Vino91

You have yet to answer a few questions of mine. Thanks.

opa: I am having a hard time seeing where your questions are leading to in scum hunting. Regardless of win's and losses, is there anything else you could quesiton mcgriddle about that pertains to what is going on in this game?

Sigma: although you do not need to have a vote on anyone, a vote helps in determining what is going on in your mind. During my first game here on MS, I had decided I wouldn't vote until I was absolutely sure. I was then accused of fence sitting. There are two parts of scum hunting. Questioning and Voting, putting them together makes for better scum hunting because at least the votes can be used to see where your mind is at. You will then not be accused of fence sitting, or not wanting to get your hands dirty. Again it is what you feel comfortable doing, but it helps out town to guage your suspicions.

Trumpet of Doom: when Rico had posted his family was in the hospital, I had a hard time deciding if that was for slight sympathy card to not vote for him, or not. I would assume though that his family is in the hospital, but had taken note of it as it could be true but it could be used as an excuse not to post much.

[Thian]

Kiari: I have noticed the amount of posting you have done has decreased when I stopped questioning you, and you have yet to really engage much conversation with anyone else. I have recorded that.

[Thian]

^^
agreed ToD.

Putting my IC hat on here again.
I've also started seeing a trend on what helps town a lot in these games, is if you can think about the potential of an end game. Who you do want or would want with you in an end game situation where it is possibly Lynch or Lose. The more inactives you bring along to the end game, it hurts your chances, the people who are not assisting town as well can ultimately lead to a demise, active lurking, or distracting town. It isn't a sure fire way to get scum, but it does improve your chances if you can objectively look at peoples posts and ask yourself, does this help, or hurt town, and if you feel it does hurt town, then you might as well question it and get clarity of where someone was going on with their train of thought.

Kiari: I can understand busy weekend, we had a move on saturday night and spent time out doors as it was really nice. What I find a little weird and of course this isn't an indication of alignment whether town or scum, but you want to be very careful with the attitude ((we have a lot of time)). You look like a time waster by this post. Saying "Well, I don't need to contribute anything substancial because we have over 2 weeks" is not a very good outlook. When there is pressure of time and it weeds in to 3 or 4 days until deadline, you will wish you had posted more substancial things during the time to allow for discussion to happen. you never ever know what someone is going to throw at you by the 3rd day until deadline, which causes a major disruption and the inability to switch votes around in time for a proper lynch.

People will end up thinking, well why didn't you say that sooner?! or, why didn't you ask those questions sooner?! we only have a day left?! and now you bring this up?! it is just food for thought, I'd suggest you at least try to take this on board, 3 weeks is a long time, yes, but use it wisely, don't dally around and wait.
Off the IC hat comes.

McGriddle: I requested you to ask one question to each person to generate scum hunting. would you be able to do that? Also, what views do you have on Trumpet of Doom that warrent your vote there? Do you see Rico as a potential for your vote? or what about Vino?

Kiari: I'd also like you to participate and ask a scum hunting question to each person. I'd like to see your involvement more because I do see potential in you, without your annoyance.

Rico Act: currently you are being targetted by a few people as scummy. What ideas can you bring to the table that we have might not thought about you, or others yet?

[Thian]

IC Hat Back On:
If you are town, it is best to be questioning people, staying active and forcing others to talk. You want to take the time to your advantage, because you never know who will end up gone by the morning and if you haven't posted enough of your suspicions, you won't leave clues behind for anyone to analyze or discuss the possibilities for ending up dead.
End IC hat.

[Thian]

^^
agreed ToD.

Who you do want or would want with you in an end game situation where it is possibly Lynch or Lose.

sorry, that should be mislynch and lose. situation. not lynch or lose.

[Thian]

Vino, debate between players is healthy, not scummy. If Kiari was such an easy lynch, do you not feel more people would have jumped onto her by now?

Also, do you know for a fact that Kiari plays like that every game? Have you played in a game with her yourself? or are you just taking someones word for it?

If you want to talk about easy lynches so far. Mcgriddle, Rico Act and opa are prime easy target lynches for scum to be going after. So you may want to start looking at those people who are lingering their votes there.

I could just as easily say at this point, i am an easy lynch target because most people fear an IC in the game and you are demonstrating the want to get the IC out. So you don't have to worry about a some what experienced mafia player.

[Thian]

It is hardly sympathy. It is fact.

You are unable to question more people than just myself? Why tunnel?

Taking someones word for something, does not mean it is true, if you, yourself have not experienced it. Even if you think you know someone by experience, they can easily fool you by switching up their game style.

Vino, you stretched one of my posts way too far out of context, I find that scummy, and now that you were deciding between kiari and I which "More Town" leaving the other person to be your suspect I find it funny you start taking the word of I am innocent and buddy up with his opinion and vote that way without bothering to engage conversation with kiari.

kiari and I had a debate, I am innocent has mentioned that I amscummy, now you back up I am innocent's opinion, which will give Kiari relief andnot bother with you. Why did you choose not to engage kiari in any type of questioning?

[Thian]

IC Hat on:
we have 15 days left. Please don't rush into this. Often rushing lynches based on not knowing an individual's currently life situation can result to poor choices in lynches and not allowing one to speak before giving the person the time might end up really bad for the town. My suggestion at this point, is prior to placing that hammer down, give a question to Rico for his return so it will prompt him to start playing and contributing. He stated he would come around tomorrow ((posted yesterday)) so allow him that chance.
IC Hat off:

[Thian]

IC Hat:
Sigma, it is important to make your position known, so people can see what is on your mind. Putting rico at L-1 this early, is a bit dangerous, so I think it is in the groups best interest to hear him out prior to hammering. If of course he isn't willing to post something substancial, then of course, it will either be scum hiding, or someone who is playing anti town. However, given the circumstances around his absence, we do need to take that into account and give him the benefit of the doubt. Try posing a few questions to Rico for his return to see if your suspicions add up or not Sigma. I'd like to see that from you
IC Hat Off:

[Thian]

IC Hat:
If you need an example of how quick lynches hurt the town, you should check my wiki and check out newbie 1066. It was ultimately the towns demise, rushing into lynches. They were either impatient, or jumping too quickly into hammering people with plenty of time prior to deadline.
IC Hat Off:

[Thian]

IC hat:
Kiari - Participation levels and post content is too minimal. Please increase your participation a bit. You are hurting a town win condition by not involving yourself more. Plus with your latest post, you are considered active lurking.

RICO ACT - Participation levels and post content needs to increase, if you are having difficulty in keeping up, please request to replace. you have a sesrious issue to attend to which is family.

Vino91 - you are doing fine vino, would like to see you around more, but you are doing more for the group than some.

SigmaEXE003 - sigma, im glad you are inquistiive about mafia, continue how you are you may want to start questioning a few others while you wait for rico to stimulate conversation between players

Trumpet of Doom (SE) - you are doing well, I don't have any worries about your participation levels

}|{opa (SE) - Your participation levels have dropped, come around please.

I Am Innocent (SE) - please do not fall into the background. your opening posts were fine it seemed, try not to allow scum to hide in this much non activity.

McGriddle (SE) - you really need to step up your game on day one mcgriddle, you are not involving yourself. At all. Please post more than you have.
end IC hat:

Scum listing/Anti Town ((I wouldn't mind lynching the following players, it will increase chances of people who will be active towards endgame))
OPA
Kiari
Mcgriddle

Rico Act: You do have questions pending, you do have a life issue to attend to, I suggest if you get prodded one more time, you might think about replacing so you can deal with what it is you are dealing with.


Vino, my eye is still on you at this moment, but I am willing to look else where on the above listed people and move my vote closer to deadline if they do not come around to scum hunt.

I realize day ones are headaches, you cannot rely on night actions, you cannot rely on information from night kills, please keep active enough to generate at least something new once a day. It is day time discussion and votes that will help more than anything.

[Thian]

Scum listing/Anti Town ((I wouldn't mind lynching the following players, it will

increase chances of

people

who will be active towards endgame))
OPA
Kiari
Mcgriddle

Wow, woa, objection! It's kind of rush conclusion. It's only a week of a game. And the way you said it is pretty suspicious. I have a feeling that both scums are active.

FoS: Thian

.

Opa, and what will you say when it is two weeks into the game, or even 2 weeks and a half when there are only 3 days left? you wouldn't have generated enough conversation. That is either scum or Anti Town. You don't want to waste time waiting around and not posting. I find your FoS a bit forced at this moment Opa.

Do you really feel that scum are both active? I disagree with you. Infact, I would guess that they aren't saying much at all because the group is not active enough why would they feel the need to be active and raise suspicion against themselves, this early in day one?

[Thian]

I find this a stretch

@Thian:

Lying about your role, is not good practice. If you can't be truthful the first time about you role, how will anyone trust you later on when it counts? It is a risk that could cost a win. Yes, there will be times for power roles to hide and claim Vanilla Town ((VT for short)). However, in general practice, you want to be open, honest and transparent with all answers.

I almost (almost!) get the feeling you trying to get the power roles to reveal themselves at this early stage of the game, which I believe is incorrect.

I also find the underlined pretty stretched too. I have no reason to intimidate anyone with anything, and you deciding between kiari and myself?

@I Am Innocent:

I'm very suspicious of this little skirmish going on between Kiari and Thian,

however, I'm still trying to decide which side of the fence I sit on. Kiari is blatantly avoiding answering simple questions and keeps trying to turn the questions around on Thian, which seems fairly scummy to me. Yet, at the same time, I also feel Thian is doing his very best to make sure we notice this "scummy" behaviour of Kiari without actually putting it in writing himself, which also makes me suspicious of him (Thian, that is).

I was also not impressed with the following reply I got from Thian as I got the feeling he was trying to intimidate me into keeping quiet about my suspicions over him

hinting at the power roles to reveal them themselves:

Vino:
That's not the purpose of that post. That purpose of that post was to aknowedge that lying about your role is not good, yet there will be times that you need to. Not to out a power role. The continuation of discussion about them this early is not good Vino. So please don't bring that up right now.

I considered his original comment may just have been badly worded and I questioned to simply gauge his reaction, which I then sensed a fair amount of intimidation in.

What do you think is the scummiest thing so far, I Am Innocent?

Then after some posts, I am innocent shows you how easy it is to pick a person. After being called out on you saying you have 3 suspicions, but I am innocent had noticed you hadn't put your vote on any of those three.

If you ask me, as of the point I asked you, I have no problem saying that I think Thian was more scummy than Kiari. See it's not that hard. But either you are afraid to be backed into a corner, or you are afraid to make enemies, both of which hint scum.

Then you do this.

I feel far more strongly voting for I Am Innocent or Thian at this stage, I had suspicions of Thian from early on, so:

VOTE: Thian

At the time I am innocent was pointing out scummy things you were doing, also, after I am innocent decided to pick my name, you decide to go along with it, when I am innocent had already voted you, had already called you scummy, yet you didn't bother voting for him? or quesitoning him on why his vote was on YOU?....

That is really weird. I would be questioning anyones vote on me. Why are you avoiding I Am Innocent and not asking reasons as to why his vote is on you? Why, when my vote is on you, do you question me more than I am.

[Thian]

@ Thian You're most annoying IC I've ever seen. Your speech:

I've also started seeing a trend on what helps town a lot in these games, is if you can think about the potential of an end game. Who you do want or would want with you in an end game situation where it is possibly Lynch or Lose. The more inactives you bring along to the end game, it hurts your chances, the people who are not assisting town as well can ultimately lead to a demise, active lurking, or distracting town. It isn't a sure fire way to get scum, but it does improve your chances if you can objectively look at peoples posts and ask yourself, does this help, or hurt town, and if you feel it does hurt town, then you might as well question it and get clarity of where someone was going on with their train of thought.

is wrong. Why you bring this Nazi Pro-Policy Lynch Agitation? IMO it have nothing with IC-guidance, because it's simply bad. Also, it's bit to early, anyways.
OMG! New post. You just keep annoying me.

Stop, please.

Let the game breathe..

}|{opa:


What exactly is wrong with what you quoted. I'd like further insight.

Would you rather have people who don't post? or who post towards end game?

Let the game breathe meaning? Allow you and others to not post? I don't think so. Participate more and I will slow down, I'd rather not give scum the chance to be able to take a back seat.

My suspicion of you is greatly increasing. You are agitated because I called you out on you not being active enough. Then you resort to telling me to stop being active? Why? so scum can sit back in the background?

[Thian]

@ Thian All people are posting, right? Somebody less, but not very abusive. Your advice is out of place.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16935

}|{opa, no, not "all" people are posting. Otherwise, I would have not made that comment. I would have slowed down by now if there were more people posting and contributing.

You told me, my advise is wrong. Why is it wrong?

}|{opa, do you want people who are active, or people who are barely posting?

What PART of the quote below is wrong advice?

I've also started seeing a trend on what helps town a lot in these games, is if you can think about the potential of an end game. Who you do want or would want with you in an end game situation where it is possibly Lynch or Lose. The more inactives you bring along to the end game, it hurts your chances, the people who are not assisting town as well can ultimately lead to a demise, active lurking, or distracting town. It isn't a sure fire way to get scum, but it does improve your chances if you can objectively look at peoples posts and ask yourself, does this help, or hurt town, and if you feel it does hurt town, then you might as well question it and get clarity of where someone was going on with their train of thought.

IC Hat:
}|{opa, regardless of religion, race, country, language and political views, that sort of discussion might be best for the general discussion thread, we are trying to play a game a mafia. Discussion of these subjects may lead others into sensitive topics which are unrelated to this game and could start confusing people. You do have the right to speak your mind of course, but please be mindful of these topics and not allow them to become the main focal point when there is a game being played. If there is relevancy to your religion and race comments in scum hunting, please elaborate on it so we understand how it is useful for scum hunting.

[Thian]

vino that was an error in tagging }|{opa, you are right. You did not. I apologize.

[Thian]

Trumpet of doom:
I have played in 2 games with him, this is my third game ((mcgriddle)). His day one play is very very difficult to read. He has confessed before he hates day 1, so right now, I am not seeing anything out of the ordinary of how he has played in the past with me.

Now at this point, he did follow my RVS vote and then made mention that I had already voted for him. As a person in general Mcgriddle is a cool guy, but he may have found safety in jumping onto my RVS vote on you in attempts to buddy up. That to me is suspicious. His contribution factors are not helping, so it is why I am putting him up there on my list.

I also asked him to pose at least one question to everyone, yet he hasn't done so.

IC Hat:
Sigma:
Try to steer away from getting into debates about race or religion or allowing the conversation to flourish. His views are his views, and I think if you want to get a better understanding of }|{opa's views on these subjects, it might be best to save that for General discussion forum. Strip away the things you view negative about his perception of people and get down to the actual mafia part of the game. It will help you out a great deal if you can filter useless comments within posts, and what is actually being said about the game.
End IC Hat:

[Thian]

I don't have anything to say about your change of mind Vino, Once }|{opa comes around again it will be interesting to see the conversation. I already listed }|{opa prior to Sigma, and your votes as either antitown or scum. I'd support this lynch. My vote will move as well, but not after I see some interaction between myself and him, and how he interacts with you vino, and sigma who have placed your votes on him.

Kiari, your vote is based on pure annoyance with a person.

[Thian]

Vino, you stretched one of my posts way too far out of context, I find that scummy, and now that you were deciding between kiari and I which "More Town" leaving the other person to be your suspect I find it funny you start taking the word of I am innocent and buddy up with his opinion and vote that way without bothering to engage conversation with kiari.

kiari and I had a debate, I am innocent has mentioned that I amscummy, now you back up I am innocent's opinion, which will give Kiari relief andnot bother with you. Why did you choose not to engage kiari in any type of questioning?

Maybe because he saw how I responded to your stupid questions, and decided that when he asked me something he'd damn well better make sure it was a pertinent question.

why did you make this comment of intimidation, so that no one would bother to butt heads with you? Scare tactics aren't worth anyones time.

[Thian]

Opa, then I invite, you and Kiari to begin scum hunting without anyone having to instigate conversation with you both.

I will be back in a couple of days and see how far you and her have gotten.

[Thian]

Avoiding prod, watching. will post maybe sunday. glad to see so much conversation between players

[Thian]

Vino: yes, it is. Is it helpful? no. It isn't.

Reason why? Opa and Kiari have called my posts annoying and distracting. I am avoiding a prod and seeing how far you guys get before you realize that the lack of posting will be the downfall of everyone. Trumpet of doom has fallen into the background. You guys may want to start questioning him. Good luck.

[Thian]

letting the game "Breathe" so to speak. in the words of Opa. So vino, if yo uare going to jump on me for following Kiari and Opa's advice. Please consider that first prior to trying to make me look scummy for "active lurking". you will eventually learn by example of good posting and bad posting which opa and kiari have both done, and mcgriddle.

[Thian]

Vino: I certainly do know. for sure. It may be a lesson Opa and Kiari needs. Sigma and You I am starting to see a better town light on you vino.. The people I am most worried about at this point.

Kiari, Opa ((being blatently combative when there isn't really a need)) Still deciphering whether it is scum upset, or genuine town getting riled up, because someone takes a few jabs at their posting and content or lack thereof.

Something interesting at this point. I am innocent, and Trumpet of Doom. They do both give off vibes of townie, but you would think they would try to fuel the fire a bit more with coming around and posting. They may infact be allowing townies to rip each other apart.

also the interaction between Kiari and Opa is minimal.
Same with the interaction between
Trumpet of doom and I am innocent.

both avoiding conversation between each other.

Some food for thought.

Also, my eye is on Mcgriddle. I know he hates day ones, but this is a bit off.

You advised me that my previous posts were active lurking, I agreed with you. They are, it is poor posting. Opa and Kiari are just as guilty of those types of posts. ((General complaining and annoyance without really saying too much. other than they are hungry, tried, cranky and generally fed up with life)).

[Thian]

Do people normally get on him for his D1 play?

Yes, they do. We had also got on him for the fact that when he does get pinned into a corner he gives up and doesn't bother later on to scum hunt while still being questioned. Also your V/LA I apologize, I was focused a lot on people saying they'd come around later and post.

[@Thian, who do you think I have had more interaction with (excluding Vino) than Trumpet of Doom? You say I am avoiding conversation with him, when I am one of the few players asking him questions while most of the players are jumping on easy targets Sigma, Rico Act & Iopa etc.

Well until I called you out on it. all you were talking to were ,vino, opa you talked to kiari once and mcgriddle I believe once, and then Trumpet of doom you had asked him one thing, at least from the brief ISO I saw of yours. The bulk of the conversation has been with vino and opa. Your interaction with trumpet of doom is pretty non exsistant until I mentioned it and then you kicked it into high gear and started speaking to him.

Are you saying what I had seen is wrong? Prior to me mentioning it, go back and review how many times you interacted with him. Perhaps I am wrong and you can prove you are right.

@Thian, I find post 162 interesting. You list every player that has not been prodded twice yet. You seem to not have a solid town read on any of us. If I had to wager, it sounds like you think Vino and Sigma are the most town right now based on this "Sigma and You I am starting to see a better town light on you vino"

If this is true, why do you still have your vote on Vino? Explain how this is not a contradiction?

you are right, I could have unvoted, but I didn't. It isn't a contradiction, I just didn't unvote.

Also, I think Thian is town. But I don't mind if somebody will accidentally make him silenced.

Careful with comments like this, although I do appreciate your feeling I am town Opa, you may end up with a dead thian on day 2 ((you would have accomplished what you want)) but it sets up for a night kill at night and then you to be framed come morning, if you are indeed town.

Also, it is something a friend of mine did in a game ((not on this website)) where he grouped people up not based on voting for who, but 3 choices, making managable groups and without mafia feeling the need to shy away from each other or avoid each other. Would you still avoid your scum partner in a choice that is unrelated to voting for someone. That's all. I want to compare it at game over and see what the outcome is.

Also with lynch all lurkers, it will be a matter of opinion, some agree, some will disagree. I'd rather lynch a lurker on day one ((not necesarily in the first week of day one)) than lynch a lurker down the road on day 2 or 3.

[Thian]

Also hello SO.

[Thian]

As for picking numbers:
There is a difference between picking names and picking numbers. Will scum pick the same number or steer clear of each others choices.

Also there are feelings that are envoked when picking numbers. 1 is usually considered first, powerful, a leader position, a beginning. So would scum avoid it? Would they fall back on 2 or 3 more. Does it help right off the bat? No. If collected later on and there is a trend with this? It might help with scum hunting.

Also, you do need to ask filler questions when interrogating. To get a bit more personal, than non personal, then personal again, switching it up. Also picking 1, 2 or 3. breaks people down into smaller groups. That might be easier to manage. Although the ratio between players was 3 people for each number, it doesn't really help statistically that there are or potentially could be 2 scum in one number.


Also sigma, All it is, is me telling opa to be careful with calling people town and who people should kill or silence. It is bad for town and it will allow them to be framed going into the next day. I had done that to spark conversation in one game ((on a different sight)) that person got killed, and I was framed the next day and then killed off. It is dangerous to lead scum.

Also

unvote: vino91

[Thian]

@Thian #1 - Do you have some meta as town that shows you like to go after lurkers early in the game?

@Thian #2 - Did you ever play with an IC that used the phrase "IC Hat" (or something similar)?

1: No, infact. I actually attempted to protect lurkers, giving them the benefit of the doubt. up until Eggylvl in one game proved to me that lurking and unhelpful posts were scummy and unhelpful to have around.

2: Yes, I have. also others have called it an IC hat. Why question that?

[Thian]

and also. Can I get clarification on what you mean by "early" do you mean early as in on day one period? or do you mean the first week of day 1?

[Thian]

I am:
I feel it is necessary to distinguish between, giving advice on how to play the game ((the way I would play and offering newer people advice)). It is a part of the How to be a good IC conduct, that when giving advice, I should never mix it up with the actual game, nor my role. If you are questioning my ability to IC, then you need to bring it up with the Mod, and Vel. I would not mix my role up, in a position where this game would be compromised because of that. so the way I identify with it, is identifying when i am being an IC. ((with an IC hat))... I could very well just say... "Speaking as an IC" or say ((off game note)) or some other differently worded identifier. to let people know, when the game of mafia IS being played, or when I am giving advice to people. If you are concerned with me mixing the two up, please speak with the mod and Vel. If it is the term, you feel I threw it around too much, I agree to a point yes. It is my first time and I am bound to be over zealous because, it is something I did want to become when I was joining newbie games and have only participated in the road to rome. My first game ever in Mafia, I power posted to the point of being called distracting. Infact, I am often called distracting. So it is something I am used to.

I am: You are very concerned with meta. So much so, that I disbelieve you haven't found what you were looking for already. It is why you are questioning me as such.

Camn in 1019: Was scum
Camn in 1019: Actively went after Nazgul as scum for lurking day 1.
Thian in 1019: Defended Nazgul for lurking saying it is the easiest lynch out there and scum will fall back on it.

Camn successfully blinded people from GPT's Lurking by pointing out Nazgul's lurking more in 1019.
GPT in 1019 was scum
GPT in 1019 was lurking
GPT replaced out Enter Eggylvl999
Eggylvl999 in 1019 unhelpful posting and lurking

also you can find in there, the use of "IC Hat" by myself, also you can find in 1088, Olinea using Ic hat. you can find in 993, where springlullaby identified her speaking as an IC to put mafia aside and take in the advice.

you can dig up specifics and links if you want, but I assure you, you already have done that, seeing as it is in my wiki and not hard to find or research for a "meta" type player such as yourself.


Now something interesting you are bringing up. The fact that you are self aware of your mistake of going after lurkers on D1, as scum, you wouldn't want to fall back into that same trap. So the mere fact that you are vocalizing it like this, are you aiming to be better scum this game by not allowing yourself to vote for a lurker?

Vote: I am

You accuse me of being "paranoid" you seem paranoid not to fall back into your own trap of voting for a lurker.

currently, I am voting you I am, because you have attempted to make me look scummy by meta in a game that I am 99 percent sure you had already researched, since it is already in my wiki hence why the heavily calculated questioning. you are also bringing up the wine in front of me case.

"As an IC, would I hide in posting "IC advice" or would I not. ((trying to out guess is never good from a past game, to previous game))
also, because of your accusation of me being "paranoid" you are also coming off paranoid to avoid a lurker vote because of past scum mistakes you have made.

[Thian]

Infact, scum are pretty much Camn had called me distracting as a player and was scum.

So, Trumpet of doom. Top new scum reads.

I am Innocent
Kiari
Opa

[Thian]

I am innocent:
I am voting you, because your line of questioning fits perfectly into ONE game I have played. Which sums up your use of Meta, as using only One game. You telling me, that you haven't read it? It is just too convenient that I found all of what you are looking for in one game. If you are against lynch all lurkers, that's fine. I was too, but the amount of resistance that Kiari had given, even to simple questions, there was no reason for it. She wouldn't have been helpful either way.

Now, given the fact that sanchocolate jumped onto a bandwagon that has already formed. You are against Lynch all lurkers. So do you not then feel that sigma's vote is advantageous? We haven't heard enough from Sanchocolate, nor have we heard much play from kiari. So you are against a lynch Sanchocolate/kiari then?

[Thian]

I understand the reason for a claim before a hammer. However, there has been an arguement whether or not it is a good idea to claim on day one.

I am, why are you interested in getting to know }{opa's role? Do you feel that is interest of scum, or town, to know prior to a lynch what role }{opa has, on day 1.

[Thian]

sanchocolate: Do you feel at this point, that there is 1 scum on }{opa's wagon? If so, who is it?

Mcgriddle: I won't go over this much, yes I agree with you, day 1 you do very poorly. However, there are several requests for your opinions, you have denied them all, as well as the kiari position, denying us information that was promised. Which scum, is avoiding }{opa's lynch in your opinion.

[Thian]

It was a discussion about when to claim or if to claim, in the mafia discussion forum. It wasn't playing in a game. If I can find that discussion, I will post the title in here.

there was arguements for both cases, however one of the arguements was, claiming your role on day 1 can be beneficial for scum so they know if they need to redirect a lynch wagon, if their lynch target currently is someone who they want to lynch, and who not to night kill, or follow up on attempting to lynch the next day. At least on day 1, giving scum the least possible information is better. Or viewed better.

Normally, in most cases, town is generally lynched day 1. So why give scum the benefit to gain more?

[Thian]

Ultimately, if someone wants the claim, then fine, go with it, it is proper to at least ask for a claim first prior to hammering, always. Generally it will be up to that individual up for the lynch to use their best judgement to claim or not.

[Thian]

check out the topic Theory: Claiming Extravaganza. They do have information there.
the least amount of role revealing you do on day 1, might be better.

On day one, you have the unfortunate possibility of outing a power role right away and potentially losing them during the night without them being helpful.

[Thian]

also, I am going to try to dig through the few games I have played, because upon recalling, I think I did actually see where someone did refuse to not role claim for that very reason.

[Thian]

Opa: despite that you feel I Want you gone. You are wrong. You were vocal enough to suggest that I, shut up, be night killed, or lynched so you didn't have to talk with me. Or participate in the game with me. So stop projecting your personal feelings towards me when it isn't me that wants you gone, it is you who wants me gone.

1. Opa, has mcgriddle given enough opinion for your liking to justify his vote on you?

2. Has sanchocolate given enough opinion for your liking to justify his vote on you?

If your answer is no to both, then why are you flailing to try to make others look guilty. If you are not scum, then at this point, I believe there is 1 person on the lynch, and one person off.

Is it in Sanchocolate? or is it in Mcgriddle?

As for my vote on I am, i'd rather keep it here at the moment.

Also opa, sometimes the path of most resistance could mean that the group is on to something with you.

[Thian]

Opa, your sarcasm on the last page is not needed, nor wanted. I am innocent asked me a question about when to claim, and when not to, He also asked for links/topics where it has been discussed so I answered it.

Play the game how you want. You as an SE, have a handle on the game which you have developed over the amount of games you have played. So play it, without complaining. If you find that you do not like the "Teaching" aspect in the newbie queue, you might want to either apply to IC yourself, or step into a different queue where there is a lot less teaching and a lot more mafia playing.

On to other things Opa, Mcgriddle on your lynch is considred lurking through day 1. When I suggested that Kiari was doing the same thing, Why didn't your vote go to her? Seeing as now, Mcgriddle decided to put you at L-1. Are you not OMGUS'ing yourself? I am innocent also suggests that lurkers are not the best place to put a vote. Do you agree with him, or disagree?

[Thian]

@Thian, you are voting me because I am against Lynch All Lurkers?

I am, is it not true you wrote that? Would it not suggest then, you are against lynching mcgriddle, sanchocolate/kiari

[Thian]

and opa, no I am not expecting people to obey. Why are you so angry? If you say you aren't then why is it coming across that way?

[Thian]

I am not misrepping anyone either, clearly I am innocent stated ,he was against lynch all lurkers.

also, I am, how would anyone know in our game when someone did or did not confirm. There isn't any way, since it was all done in pvt message and then Sotty opened the thread.

[Thian]

Can you agree Opa, that Kiari was not doing anything but defending herself, avoiding questions... even if it was the simplest questions? she did not participate yes life got in the way, so she replaced out, that is fine and that is good, but we have another problem, Sanchocolate has not done much other than jump onto your vote. Is this correct?

Also Opa, when you were speaking around that time, you were asking questions about religion / politics and other things that I could not see as being relevant, unless it was to antagonize. I just suggested that those topics might get personal and heated and that it would be best if it was left out of this game and more towards general discussion forum before someone takes it personally. You just don't know how someone will react to those types of questions without the possibility of a mod coming in and having to break up a fight about religion / politics and personal belief systems.

It isn't manipulative, it is trying to keep the game on track. So I had asked you and kiari at the time, to come forward and start scum hunting, since you believed that I was doing a poor job.

That is not dictating someone to do something. It is saying, if you feel I am doing a poor job. Please step forward and show me what I should be doing.

[Thian]

Mcgriddle: As much as you say you can't get into this game because of another person. Opa is saying the truth. You are selecting which questions to answer and which to avoid. Is that true or false?

[Thian]

Opa: I am not dismissing Mcgriddles play at all. I can agree with Mcgriddle not answering questions and not being invested in day one. However, I have played in two games with him and he acted the same in both. I agree that it is not helpful. Which makes Mcgriddle harder to read. The fact that he offered to allow us to lynch him day 1 makes me think that Mcgriddle realizes his play is poor and he would rather be lynched early on.

Now this is a WIFOM ((Wine in Front of Me, trying to outguess someone without having any knowledge)) Would he do that because he is town, sacrifice himself day one so we won't have to worry about him. OR would he offer his lynch hoping that by doing so that we believe he is town, but he is actually scum.

I think the risk is too great for scum to offer to be offed on day one and leave only 1 partner to have to take out the rest of the town.

He would have to rely on his partner to last 5 rounds or so and that would be a daunting task for any scum, not to have their partner around.


I also agree, that ToD, SanChocolate, Vino and Sigma really need to start participating. Sigma and Sanchocolate started to fall into the background when ToD and I am Innocent got into a debate. Now, is Sanchocolate not speaking because he feels intimidated, or is not interested. . . .


Also Mcgriddle: If one scum is off the lynch of OPA and one scum is on the lynch of OPA. Who would they be right now?

[Thian]

Also, I Am innocent and ToD's debate just faded. Now that partly has to do with ToD not being around as well. If currently I am, Opa, Mcgriddle are talking and trying to figure this out, does that mean we are on the wrong track and we should actually be looking into sigma, Vino, Sanchocolate, ToD, SupremeOverlord. Maybe they don't feel the need to speak and they are satisfied with keeping their heads down and not participating.

[Thian]

I guess Surpreme Overlord is away, until then. Opa, supreme overlord had discussion with you, are you not worried that Overlord could be making a mistake at all?

[Thian]

I see what you are saying about Mcgriddle. I am really not dismissing it. I just think it isn't likely that scum would offer to be the lynch target for day 1.

Opa, right now you are cheerleading jumping onto ToD. If I were to see anything that I am worried about with ToD, is his friendly nature / rallying up Mcgriddle and myself along with him and being buddy buddy, which could be dangerous too.

I am innocent, how do you feel about Sigma's switching of votes. Obviously Mcgriddle is lurking, do you think Sigma may have jumped into a Mcgriddle lynch because it is easiest to argue against?

[Thian]

I am: Mcgriddle lynch. I will take it on board, but right now I get the feeling that the two lynch victims are Opa and Mcgriddle at this point. Opa is making sure we take note of how useless Mcgriddle is on day 1. I can't figure out if Opa is town, and out of survival, he latched onto Mcgriddle's lack of posting/avoidance of questions to save his own self.

@ everyone: If you are scum, would you purposely offer yourself up for a lynch on day 1 and leave your partner stranded to last out 5 days, pretty much a month and a half to get yourself team a win? You got to be pretty damn savy and willing to put in the work by yourself. That is why I believe Mcgriddle is not scum at the moment. Is it a ploy, it could very well be. Sure. I can appreciate that, but the reality of it is, if I were scum, i'd want my partner around. I feel people are ignoring this.

Could mcgriddle be scum, sure. he could be acting the same way past games and hiding in it. However, with the above question / view I am not fully on board with it. however, I might be putting my vote there.

Opa: you continue to tell people, you won't regret it, i promise you. We can't take your word for it, you are telling people what to do, and you easily swayed Sanchocolate to head over onto Mcgriddle lynch from you. You have accused me of dictating, yet you are doing the same thing.

Sanchocolate: You are saying that because of Mcgriddles lack of posting, that is one reason why you are moving your vote over there. You also have a track record of not posting. You are saying this is your first game ever correct? You are also having a hard time following with what is going on. I will tell you, Mafiascum tends to be a bit more analytical, a bit more in depth, when you leave for the amount of time you had left and come back to quite a few more pages, I can understand it. It is best to come around if at all possible, at least once a day to every second day just to see what is going on. Otherwise, you will feel disconnected, unsure of the flow of conversation and exactly where you can interject. ((I do realize holidays and family occur, I am not dismissing that)) being around helps you to feel involved.

Most of the time, when you are replacing, normally ((from what I have seen)) players tend to go back from the beginning and form an opinion on the players or anything that has occurred. When you jumped in, you ran into Opa's vote. Can you explain why exactly you voted for him? What made you change your mind from Opa to Mcgriddle?

[Thian]

Opa, why do you say "Your" town if you are town along with sanchocolate, shouldn't it be, lend "Our" town a hand. You aren't including yourself in the group. Why?

I will be voting before deadline, don't yo uworry about my vote. It will be used. Right now I am looking at the conversation. ToD was on my suspect list at one point. Vino, would you consider lynching ToD? If not, why?

[Thian]

Opa, why do you say "Your" town if you are town along with sanchocolate, shouldn't it be, lend "Our" town a hand. You aren't including yourself in the group. Why?

What does it matter? I mean sorry if that looks rude or not, offence is not intended in any way, I'm just curious. Do you need to be careful of how you post things or what? Me = confused

Sanchocolate: it isn't rude at all. You are just curious.

The game consists of 2 people who know for a fact they are guilty against 7 people who are genuinely just as confused as the next person.

Those two people need to be careful on what they say, and how they say it. They may "slip", by saying something that only someone "In the know" would know. They also may state something that excludes them from the group.

This case, saying lends YOUR town a hand. Means he knows you are town, and the rest are town. Instead of saying lend OUR town, which would include him.

Now, Opa's first language he just stated is Russian, so meaning and grammar style are not the same. It could be a slip, but it also could be due to Opa's first language being Russian.

[Thian]

agreed to vino and back to opa. and sanchocolate. I am at work right now so I am in between work and here. I am following. I will be up until about 3 or 4Am in the morning. I did double check, thank you for clarifying that up vino.

[Thian]

If he's scum, he's not town and therefore won't be thinking about himself as a part of town. It'd be a slip that tells us he's scum. (On that note, thank you for pointing that out, Thian, I would have missed it.)

ToD you jumped on what I percieved to be a slip really quick without analyzing the grammar, unlike Vino, or Opa, or Sanchocolate.

[Thian]

So does this make ToD at L-1?

No L-2. Could you land your town hand to put him at L-1?

Opa, just to clarify, you are asking Sanchocolate, to give his "town hand" to you, to help lynch ToD.

do you know Sanchocolate is town?

[Thian]

Why bother saying lend your town hand. It is safe to say, you are trying to gain confidence with Sanchocolate, by calling him town.. If indeed Sanchocolate is town, this statement would make him feel much more comfortable in following your advice. Which he has moved over to ToD.

[Thian]

Something is not sitting right with that post Opa, I am really sorry. I understand where Vino is coming from about wording and grammar, and English. I also understand that it would be pretty simple slip for someone to do.

However, Opa, is still claiming that Sanchocolate IS town by saying lend your "Town" hand. Which is implying he knows for a fact that Sanchocolates hand would be town. Why not just say, lend your hand and lynch scum. Why did he feel the need to write Town hand.

right now, it is going to be a toss up my vote is either headed towards ToD, but Opa, the more I re-read that ... the more it doesn't sit right in my mind.

[Thian]

crap-tacular.... I really hate being deciding. I wish I could get both claims but that is too much role reveal for my liking.

Opa, would you role claim please? Thank you.

[Thian]

Jora, I do apologize for stating your name incorrectly. With that out of the way. I am not backstabbing anyone. Why are you taking this so personally. It is really just a game. I am not avoiding any vote. I can vote you, or I can vote Trumpet of doom.

[Thian]

I just simply asked for you to role claim. I am innocent is correct, whether or not you give that, it is your decision, but I am asking for that. I am taking it into consideration Jora.

[Thian]

I also have to get ready to go home from work. I will be on before 12:00AM EDT.

[Thian]

Jora, I am considering ToD as well. It isn't the end. I do know the trouble you put forth. Potentially at this point we may even have you as a Town, and ToD as a town and Scum is hiding on both of your lynches. It is unfortunate because people were able to hide because of the holidays, and then the lack of participation.

I am here until very early into morning.

Very well Jora, I will take what you say into consideration, and I am also very aware of ToD as well.

[Thian]

going home, ill be on in about 40 minutes.

[Thian]

I am back. I am reading over ToD right now. I will then read over Jora.

[Thian]

[Trumpt of Doom:

Farily townish.

Jora, how did you go from Fairly townish, to ToD being scum? Because he started questioning you. Infact, I have seen you bounce around more scummy people ideas in your read through. I am still reading yours, but this isn't looking so good.

[Thian]

you even attempted to sway attention off of you, onto mcgriddle, to save your own ass and attempted to get a wagon going on him.

[Thian]

Really, if I look at ToD's. Sure, he's mentioned mine and mcgriddles name, could be buddying....but you also started climbing up sigma's leg calling sigma town, also sanchocolate town in hopes to pull heart strings. You also started to say you are upset. Why are you allowing emotion to get involved in a game? In hopes to sway someone?

[Thian]

Post 338 jora, you got upset because ToD stated that you were trying to discredit Mcgriddle, myself and him. You go on to say you were scum hunting. Then later in that same spoiler you accuse him of discrediting your post. Well isn't he scum hunting ?

Also, by you admitting to you being upset, and then your unwant to reveal your role. ((not that it is important)) you are pretty much folding your arms and taking your toys and going home.

[Thian]

[Trumpt of Doom:

Farily townish.

Jora, how did you go from Fairly townish, to ToD being scum? Because he started questioning you. Infact, I have seen you bounce around more scummy people ideas in your read through. I am still reading yours, but this isn't looking so good.

Link, please. I don't recall saing it.
In my iso 19 I've already called him scum. And that was early in the game.

Jora, are you kidding me? Go back through your own posts and Look!!!! I found it easily, you even coloured them pretty colours for us all.

[Thian]

let me go link you regardless jora.

[Thian]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2971860

hopefully you can see what you wrote. You gave your reads on each person. I want to know what happened between you saying ToD was "fairly town" to now, when you are on the verge of a lynch ToD is all of a sudden scum. I really believe this is a self preservation move.

[Thian]

It looked like your reads because it wasn't quoted.

[Thian]

jora, lol calm down though.

[Thian]

The funny thing is here. Jora, you are so sure that ToD is scum, yet he came to your aide from my posting 424.

[Thian]

ToD, would you be willing to claim at this point?

[Thian]

The funny thing is here. Jora, you are so sure that ToD is scum, yet he came to your aide from my posting 424.

Nope. He used it just to make you say this ^^^

@424: Yeah, um, that was actually him commenting on SO's reads.

Not that he's not still scum, but that's not why he's scum. (Count the negatives in each clause, starting... now.)

See?! ^^^ If I would be on his place I'd said this too. It's a good psycological move. He's kinda indulgently "helps" you questioning me. Sadly, it's not a scumtell - he just rtying to survive.

Jora, he defended you without you or myself prompting. He noticed an error and pointed it out. Instead of trying to use it against you, to further a scum claim. He could have easily allowed me to believe what I saw because his case is against you, it would have helped him. Yet he didn't do that.

[Thian]

The amount of his posting and the lack of care in jora's posts to me are a sign of uncaring town just to stir up conversation. On the other hand ToD's posts are pretty on point with reading into what people are saying, and at this point I do think we have 2 town up for lynch. I am really not comfortable with either of you being lynched and I wish this didn't come down to having to decide between the two.

[Thian]

Jora don't get mixed up with me saying Uncaring as in, you don't care about the game or anything. You do care, just you aren't holding back your thought processes or worrying about what you said in past.

[Thian]

Jora, you tell me what you want to see "link" and I will attempt to get it. I think the meaning behind "not care" is being misunderstood due to language right now. So do not take it as an insult. The context in which I mean. Is the amount of posting you do, questioning, and comments, you are not worried about what you say, or how you say it.

[Thian]

Well if you are worrying about what you said in past, aren't scum more worried about what they say in past that will haunt them in the future?

[Thian]

You felt insulted because I said you were not caring. You care about the game, yes, you care about the lynch, yes. I infact was saying that I believe you and ToD are most likely town at this point because of the amount of posting you have done without any regard. Then you tell me you did understand what I meant by it, and that you do worry about your past posting. Town are more likely not to worry so much about their posts because they have nothing to hide.

[Thian]

ToD your claim would be nice at this point. Thank you.

[Thian]

I really believe both of you are town at this point, just one is a bit more emotionally distracting than the other.

That's what I figured.

[Thian]

and Jora, do you feel he is fake claiming ?

[Thian]

Can we put your life on it on day 2?

[Thian]

Which would be beneficial on day 1 too.

[Thian]

This way scum would just attack them at night 1 without letting them be usefull. So I believe he is not fake claiming it.

[Thian]

So you are sure you will be around on day 2 then? Why is that Jora?

[Thian]

ToD: I am at a dilema right now. Keeping you in and downsiznig the village pool for scum. and lynch jora. I do believe your claim.

[Thian]

Why all of a sudden your attitude adjustment to calm again? Because I am not considering you to lynch? LOL what the heck.

[Thian]

Game wise, it would be to secure roles at this point.

[Thian]

Yeah sorry ToD: Really do appreciate your help and patience.

vote: ToD

[Thian]

also, good night. I really do hope for better activity day 2 from some people.

[Thian]

@SO: Sorry man. At this point. I believe both Jora and ToD were at L-1 situation both. . . I think Sigma changed the vote up from Mcgriddle to ToD so that at least a decision could be made between the two to avoid a no lynch.

I also believe that both Jora and ToD are townies and I think scum are hiding in the lynches. I won't get into too much right now since it is twilight. A lynch had to be made, and Jora is right at this point, keeping a role secret is far better than keeping a role revealed into the next day for town.

[Thian]

Welcome back guys. need to re-read.

FOS: Jora

cheerleading, day 1 distraction and his plea's for his own survival seemed more to do with him saving his own self rather than thinking about the bigger picture.

Current concern on Jora, is it a red herring?

[Thian]

Sigma: any reason you avoid actually voting for supreme overlord? You just FoS'd him.

[Thian]

I still am going to re-read. I know what you are talking about with Jora.

@ Mcgriddle, I don't understand why you wanted me to look at where sancho's vote was?

[Thian]

Mcgriddle, although that is very plausible that sancho found out who was scum. The rules state, you do not talk to anyone in pvt unless your role says you can and for scum that would only be at night.
He could have found out who was scum
He could have asked a simple question to someone
He could have inquired about another persons role to that person.

There are many possibilities why someone would be taken out of the game based on communication issues. While I do agree that Jora's play is questionable for the things I have mentioned. I would really want to steer clear of trying to second guess why the mod had to take action for anything other than, talking to people when he wasn't supposed to.

Jora could easily be left in the game because of how poorly he played and is being set up, causing him to be a complete red herring.

Also, I have to second guess now, you, sigma and supreme who I didn't really have on my radar which makes my head spin twice as fast.

With a crap start to a day 2 with what, all of 5 posts?

[Thian]

Going to the vote count on day 1.

Usually it is One scum on a lynch, one scum off as they don't want to be associated with each other, but looking at the day 1 proper vote counts.

ToD had Sanchocolate, I am innocent, vino confirmed town ((just cuz we know their roles now)) unconfirmed Jora, Thian. If I can believe in this then Jora would make sense to be scum.

However, I have to question right now, why would the second scum jump onto their partners lynch.

Trying to look pro town by lynching their partner ((if jora is indeed scum))

Either that, or there are 2 scum right now who clearly saw an easy lynch in Jora and are hiding right now both on that day 1 vote count lynch.

Sigma moved his vote over quite nonchalantly saying something like. "this vote ((on jora)) is a vote regardless of alignment"
This attitude to me means, either way a lynch needed to occur and I don't care who seems more scummy than the next let's just lynch someone get into the next day and move on.

That is questionable. Also, vino had questioned why sigma had just ended up easily taking peoples advice and going with it, without really forming an opinion themselves.

Mcgriddle, you also were quite non exsistant day 1, and I really need to look at that objectively. You are a great guy and all and I do enjoy playing in games with you, but did I over look a lurker day one ?

I also have to question Supreme Overlords want for you((mcgriddle)) to go into the next day. Then how he states for people to stop trying to lynch mcgriddle for being useless, and he'd rather see mcgriddle start being useful. Could that be Supreme overlord getting on mcgriddles case for not being around as much and how he expects big things going onto the next day from mcgriddle so he wouldn't have to pull the weight?

Also supreme overlord had asked for a list of scum reads from people. An attempt to actually see how well he was hiding amongst the group? I know I had offered my reads and I know it has come apparent that my reads were all off. So it must mean that I wasn't looking in the right place to begin with, otherwise I would have been killed right now.

these are the things I now need to bring up with each of you. Jora is a probable scum, but now, if that is the case, why would another scum try to bus their partner day 1, and if that is true jora being scum, then which one of you three decided to jump onto jora's lynch because he was up the creek without a paddle and you just didn't want to work with him as scum.

[Thian]

I think }|{opa will be the best lynch for today; unlike McGriddle, he's been participating with most of the players and will be valuable with a flip.

Don't like this at all, SO. Lets take an extreme case (I'm not saying Opa is confirmed town, just an extreme case) that we have somehow confirmed someone to be town. Even if this person has been interacting with everyone else, its still not beneficial to lynch this person. So only lynch him if you feel his actions are scummy, not just because he's been in lots of debates and arguments with everyone.

This isn't my sole reason for wanting him lynched; it's more like 'I have other reasons, plus as an additional bonus he's got more connections than the next person (McGriddle at the time)'.
}|{opa said something about his words having equal logical validity pre- and post-flip; that's true, but there have also been other people talking about 'hypo-now-confirmed opa'.

@Thian:

(Because you're online) I'd rather an }|{opa lynch, but I don't think that's going to happen in 4 hours since he's at L-2. Nothing about a VT claim should stop a lynch; claiming is

only

to make sure PRs aren't lynched; then you either keep them around till they're NKd or get out-confirmed as scum. I think the situation should be that Trumpet gets hammered, but I still am thinking he's town. Are you willing to hammer him? I also think that a town-lynch Day 1 is better than a no-lynch, in general.

NB. I haven't been in a deadline situation before so I'd welcome your input.

This is what you linked me to SO. I am unsure what you are asking me to respond to in it.

[Thian]

As for listing who you wouldn't lynch this day. It would just be the two scum trying to gain support at this point / buddying attempts. Would it be helpful. I'd rather keep scum uncomfortable for the time being because I really can't trust any of you. That's my opinion on the matter.

[Thian]

Alrigh Mcgriddlet, so if scum is in jora.

Which one is trying to Bus Jora to look townie?

Sigma?
S.O ?

[Thian]

I am not dismissing obv jora probable scum, and do need to hear from sigma at least. Right now I do need to go to sleep. So I will talk with you guys tomorrow.

[Thian]

Jora, you are claiming you are VT. Who is the scum team again? You refuse to look at sigma? So you claim Mcgriddle, S.O and Myself are potential scum. That is 3 choices. If what you say is true. Then one of the choices you have select, is town. There are not 3 scum.

[Thian]

Jora: You were a distraction, the amount of posting, calling people stupid / idiots, slinging anyone under the lynch vote just to save your own ass, your attempts to start debating about religion, politics, your contradictions through out the day. Those were all poor play. I don't need to link you. There were quite a few people in the game who have witnessed it.

The end of day 1, yes I do agree my play was horrible and the two questions on my mind were, would jora really post THAT poorly on day 1 and cause such an uproar? Would scum play that badly?
THAT is what I had a hard time trying to decipher. That led me to believe, jeeze Jora MIGHT be town after all because he hasn't really been careful with his posts.

At least when ToD claimed, my assumption on him being town was right, but your own refusal to claim did make me fear that you MIGHT have had a power role and I didn't wish to expose that. Probably the worst decision in the game that I did was lynch ToD. That I am owning up to and it was a mistake.

What I find interesting at this point is, Jora, you THREW a careless vote out THIS early on a potential final day! THAT I have a big problem with. Why? In a mislynch and lose situation. You risked it BIG, if you are VT which jora, that is bad play on your part if you are VT, or scum action.

Are you so careless as VT to throw a vote out like you did knowing that if Scum came around they could easily throw 2 votes on ONE person jora? The Lynch count is 3. Scum need 1 town to jump on the wrong lynch and then both pile up on one person especially when NOT all people have come around yet to post. Yet you failed to even think about that by placing your vote so early. It means you are not concerned Jora. You are just waiting around hoping 1 person jumps on a vote so your potential partner can jump on the hammer.

[Thian]

That [retty much covers it S.O. and as for the busing thing, don't know, we'll cross that bridge once we get there.

So you know for a fact that there was a bussing attempt going on?

[Thian]

Then exactly why is Sigma town? His passive play, his uncare whether he votes you, or ToD on day 1 is town? He even admitted to not basing his vote on anything other than "we need a lynch so it doesn't matter where my vote is going"

If you are Town jora, why are you not Questioning someone who put you at L-1, AKA Sigma.

[Thian]

Sigma: If you have not read, I have stated both sides of why jora could be scum, or could be town. I also questioned Mcgriddle, and S.O. on why someone would bus their partner jora ((if jora really is scum)). My focus isn't exactly on you specifically this round. I brought your name up to gain discussion on possibilities.

Possible scenarios

Jora Scum - Means someone on Jora's day 1 vote count was trying to throw jora under the bus, my question would be WHO, on your vote count Sigma, would bus Jora to potentially look townish.

Jora town - Mean 2 people on the Jora vote count are scum who were pushing hard for a jora lynch day 1 because of how jora had played day 1 and wanted to drag jora along to cover up their own self.

The problem is, Jora is not helping himself by randomly throwing around the "stop misrepping, links or shut up", telling people to calm down when he, himself got pretty emotional and pissy on the end of day 1 which came across as, he is willing to throw anyones name out there as long as it isn't himself being lynched.

[Thian]

oh jora, you should probably calm down yourself now. Stop mis rep me. Stop it I say stop it now. Links or shut up. LOL

I know, for a fact, you are accusing me of being scum. I know for a fact, that you are wrong. Of course you will be saying how can I know how can I know and a back and forth argument will occur about whether it is truth or not. The more you push at me Jora, the more inclined I feel to vote for you.

Right now, There is a 50 percent chance of hitting scum in Jora, Sigma, Mcgriddle or S O. Out of the 4 people Jora, you continually look like you are flailing. You told me to let the game "breathe" why don't you take your own advice. You are so in to defending yourself in a manner in which you look very...very very desperate on pure survival only.

[Thian]

Also Mcgriddle. If there is a Role blocker in this game. They can role block a regular townsperson. Although it would do no good. I think you are nit picking at that point to further instigate a Jora scum case, which would fit into an easy "jora town lynch option" this round.

[Thian]

Exactly Jora, I have been trying to figure out if SO and Mcgriddle could very well be the potential scum team as well. The problem is Jora, S.O. has been very even in his posts and they come across much more town which worries me.

Mcgriddle could very well fit perfect lurker scum day one and then S.O saying, you better pick up your game day 2 and onward.

However, then there is Sigma as well who has been very quickly swayed to take on advice and very agreeable with certain things.

I would like different interaction Mcgriddle instead of honing in on Mcgriddle this intently. Although I see what you are saying on jora, there really is another scum out there too.

[Thian]

S.O. Sigma? Any thoughts so far ? What do you feel about Mcgriddle?

Mcgriddle, I do appreciate you coming to my aide, but really jora is flailing hard enough that he is really becoming distracting and pulling focus away from the rest of the group at this point for me. I'd like to see conversation begin between the three of you S.O. Mcgriddle and Sigma.

Jora if you kindly just "let the game breathe" so to speak. It could probably help at least to see who is willing to come forward and scum hunt amongst themselves.

[Thian]

Jora, I am not representing anyone but myself in this game. Do not put the ownership on other people for the way you have played. There are reasons why the remaining people are left in this game.

1. Because they are perceived as scummy of how they played during the amount of time we have had. Scum may or may not be using them as red herrings to keep the scent off of them. ((continously being distracting))

2. Because inaccuracy in picking out scum at all

3. Because the potential of buddying up and trust was built up between town and scum and using that "trust" to gain a vote or two.

3. Because the remaining scum are still left.


these are all reasons that need to be looked at jora and we all fall into at least one of those categories, if not two. So wisen up please and stop going on the defensive all the time. If you are really town, you would have calmed down instead of gotten over emotional. You would have went back over day 1 and re-read everyone who has been lynched or killed in hopes to find a clue or two. You just get so damn blind and vengeful when someone points a finger at you when there is no reason to get all up in the air over a game of mafia. It isn't like a real gun is being pointed at you.

S.O to me his posts are coming out townish
Mcgriddle - yes I see the fact that he lurked you have poitned that out clearly enough that yes, we ALLL know this. It could be potential scum
sigma - His over agreeance during day 1 needs to be looked at objectively. He is a newer person to mafiascum so whether or not that is scum or just a new person gaining the ropes to the game by simply following along, that could be it.

The positives Jora that YOU have, fall down in the vote, which does NOT add up on day 1

Final Vote count of day one

Trumpet of Doom:

5

(I Am Innocent

,

}|{opa,

Vino91

,

sanchocolates,

Thian

)

}|{opa:

4 (

Supreme Overlord,

McGriddle,

Trumpet of Doom,

SigmaEXE003

)


All the green above are Confirmed town.

Can you agree that you were very Vocal and for a fact sure that ToD was Scum on day 1 Jora?
can you also agree that I had stated on day 1 that scum normally put 1 scum off the vote and 1 scum on the vote? Usually to try to distance themselves

It sets up a perfect scenario to kill ALL the people on one lynch and set Jora up or myself up to look scummy as a red herring, while avoiding a town lynch on ToD. This would set up scum to sit comfortably on a potential Jora town lynch to make themselves look better.

Now, if infact Jora ((NO im not accusing you, I am JUST stating a scenario))
If Jora is scum, then either SO, Mcgriddle or Sigma decided it would be best to bus their partner Jora to look even more pro town.

All I can see right now is Mcgriddle going after Jora, and Jora going after Mcgriddle yet no quick lynch.

Now which one would be more plausible at this point?

[Thian]

If you are townJora:
We need to figure out who on the Jora Lynch are the scum team

SO, Mcgriddle
McGriddle, Sigma
Sigma, SO

If Jora you are Scum, then we need to figure out who infact decided in their right mind to bus you in hopes to look more town and skirt through till the end.

Hopefully now you can see where my mind is at and why you should probably ((if you are innocent)) step back and let the three who are not speaking as much talk amongst themselves.

[Thian]

Jora, you really didn't grasp the meaning of red herring in this context.

Red Herring: Leaving someone in the game who is town but has been portrayed and acted as scummy as possible to obtain an easy and obvious lynch. When the answer is not as obvious as it seems to be.


Mcgriddle: You bring up a good point. You are distancing yourself from jora quite nicely by this back and forth debate. Just as you are accusing me of the vote distancing.


Jora; I won't be putting my vote down, I already FOS'd you, that is my vote currently but I am not putting it down officially incase I am wrong. Sigma and S.O. really need to be around at this point.

[Thian]

WTF... Gah!..... seriously ????

[Thian]

guess we now at this point. have to figure out between S o and sigma who is scum now. If your claim really is what it is.

[Thian]

To the questions posed or opinions wanted from SO and Jora I am at work, so please be patient I will be home tonight to beable to respond to them.

I am still right now, very confused as to why Sigma or SO would bus jora ((if indeed Mcgriddles claim is truthful))

[Thian]

Sotty: Could you Prod Sigma please

[Thian]

I got something in my mind right now that I will share after Jora sees your claim mcgriddle.

[Thian]

in the mean time can you show us your bread crumbs, and also who you investigated on night 1 / night 2? Anyone can make up bread crumbs I want to see where your first one was.

[Thian]

Right the idea lynch scum look town, but seriously it is too great of a risk to lose your partner day 1, there was even an agreeance that it would be foolish to risk it potentially leave it up to ONE person to decide if your partner gets lynched and then have to face 4 more day rounds with the risk of a potential cop in the mix. Ultimately in a perfect world for scum, maximum rounds they would want to play in a newb game, is 3. perfect scum game.

Why risk that chance at your partner potentially being lynched? Leaving it down to 2 town vs 1 scum, that is a LOT of pressure for one scum to handle and in an end game scenario...and I doubt for a fact that the one scum left would really want that.

[Thian]

sigma, I am finding mcgriddles claim a bit off too.

[Thian]

alright well first off.. congratulations fella's for playing a good game.

Jora: I don't think there is much to say, other than. The fact that you were a very emotional player led you to throw fingers, the more people debated with you, the worse it became because instead of thinking rationally, you got upset and targetted people based on them being "annoying" or you "disliked" during the game. This was a curse and a saving grace because at the end the more I thought about it. you were right. Why would scum be throwing around fingers like you did. Everyone practically saw you as scum in the game. I didn't like you throwing your vote down so quickly on the final day. you were so enraged and upset at people, it almost felt that you were personally being affected by the game. throwing down that vote was what cost the game, instead of FoS'ing.

I actually had questioned the FoS and why it is used. It is used in these circumstances where if you are to lose, but you want to make it known where your vote is going but you don't want to risk the game in case you are wrong, that is when it would have been better to FoS instead of actually vote. All in all, you were fine, but there are a lot of reasons why most people found you scummy hence why you were used as bait.


Mcgriddle: Your day 1 play, you should have really been around a bit more. I know you dislike day 1, just look at it as a challenge. That fake claim... was not the best play at all. Also, you too, that vote at the end was not the best idea. We had 17 days left. I can understand why the vote went down but again the FoS would have been better. Especially since we did not have much interaction between SO and Sigma going in on the last day.


S.O.: You did a really good job at hiding and your posts did come across very townish. So good scum game. I really don't have much to comment on, the only things that started to make me question were the few votes or accusations you pushed towards me a few times, they felt a bit awkward, but none the less good game I don't have too much to comment or give you advice on.

ToD: You really did a great game, I really am sorry for voting you. The more I thought about it, the more guilty I felt, hopefully though you understand, I did really want to keep roles hidden at least for scum so they were worried.

Sigma: I think what tipped a lot of people off at the beginning of day 1, was your willingness to just take the advice of people and just be like...welllll alright, if you say so LOL Taking advice is always good, but using that as a crutch for your own actions can look a bit "sheep like" and of course it would be questioned. I do wish you had come around a litle bit more on the last day, but awh well. Thems the breaks. You did well.

Vino: You did really well. I don't have anything that stands out on my mind.

I am: Again same thing you did really well as well.

Sanchocolate: you were doing alright, I was shocked to see you out of this game, you did seem eager to learn and really did great taking on board things that were said and trying out your questioning. I really hope you stick around the boards and get involved with more games.


Overall: Everyone did really well. There were a few things that really didn't work out in town favour as mentioned but really at the end of the day and what everyone was given to work with. The game still worked, and I am really glad that everyone decided to stick with the game and push forward.

Normally I don't do this, but I started sending my game thoughts to Sotty, and my last game thought was something along the lines of
"Imagine if Sigma and SO were scum" . . .

turned out to be true, I just needed more time to figure that out.

thanks for making this game and my first IC Game memorable, hopefully we will see each other again in another game.

[Thian]

oh also, could we get the quick Time chat if you guys had any? SO ? Sigma? or Sotty can you link us? this might help to see the scum thought process during the game.

[Thian]

oh also, Sotty, thanks for hosting the game. Funny how you were my very first Mod / Host when I joined scum and now back again. You did well to handle the situation along with Vel. Thanks again for moderating / hosting for us and keeping the game flowing.

[Thian]

Just read the scum links and town links. thanks for pointing those out sigma.

[Thian]

Supreme Overlord:
Theories on Claiming Day 1. Normally, in a newbie game. It is always best to practice the basics.

The basic being, if someone wants to hammer, they should request the claim, and the person ((if townie)) should claim and claim truthfully. ((as we witnessed in THIS game...fake claiming is never good))

Let's use our game as an example:
As scum you know the set up is either
7 Vanilla townies or 1 cop, 1 doc, 5 townies

Let's use our day 1 lynch victims. Jora and ToD

In a basic world, Jora claimed VT truthfully and ToD claimed VT truthfully

Now you, as scum, with enough finesse, could have gained the trust of these two individuals who almost got lynched, and gained momentum on another bandwagon. ((if there was enough time before deadline))

In our game, we didn't have enough time.

Going into the night round
ToD - VT day killed
Jora - VT ((scum know now going into night 1))

Leaving I am innocent, Mcgriddle, Sanchocolate Vino, Thian with a potential PR ((power role))

This would narrow who you would want to night kill down instead of 2 out of 7 choices to kill. you narrowed it down to 2 out of 6 choices to kill. Which are slightly better odds for scum to hit a power role.

Now, if for some reason you were able to get jora VT claim, ToD vt claim, swing the day vote to say I am innocent ((VT))

Going into the night phase, you would know.... Jora VT, ToD VT. with the potential of Mcgriddle, Sanchocolate, Vino, Thian That would be a 2 out of 4 chance of you hitting a Power Role coming into day 2. Better odds.


Now in reality what happened was...
Jora didn't claim
ToD did claim.

Unfortuantely, ToD got the short end of the stick because he was doing the right thing, but having revealed roles, scum were worried about jora hiding something. Going into night 1. scum suspected Jora of being a power role, which was not the case, but if we did have, scum would have been distracted by Jora to role block him. Cop would have investigated Jora and found him to either be guilty or not guilty. This would have helped in the next day phase.

There will always be a time and a place to role claim and every situation is going to be slightly different depending on strategy.

hopefully this kind of explains it for you. Why sometimes role claiming is more beneficial for scum, than it is for town.

[Thian]

Jeezus. I have tried to write this 4 times and keep getting disconnected.. LOL

Going back to our debate on fake claiming.

Someone had stated it was okay to fake claim ((given certain scenarios)) while I will agree that sometimes it is okay, the reason why Mcgriddles claim did not work very well.

1. It had come too early ((the claim))
2. If he were cop, he didn't allow for much conversation between players to figure out who the scum buddy was
3. the breadcrumb he used, was not the best breadcrumb for a cop. Saying we will cross that bridge when we get to it. Did not buy it.
4. He really wasn't in too much scrutiny, and it came out of left field ((the claim did))

those were just some factors why the fake claim didn't work.
Yes, it will be okay to fake claim getting out into Mafia scum and other scenarios / set ups. however, in the newbie queue and newb games, normally your fake claims won't be trusted.

Hope that also sheds some light on the fake claim debate we had

[Thian]

Happy scum day, scummy SO btw a win on your scumday is a good day for sure.

[Thian]

I am: I will take what you have said on board. I do agree with you, I had become a bit territorial, it is just a part of my personality at times. However, you are right, in some instances there will be times when there are even better newer players and better SE players out there who will know more. i was definately lucky to have this many SE's in the game. A few things that I know hurt me was the indecisiveness at the end of day 1 was pretty bad on my part.

Jora: You really should stop and think about your own actions during the game. Everyone else has taken the step to take in recognizing areas to grow, myself included, if you can't even bother to look at yourself and find ways to grow and learn in the game, then you will never get any better. Just saying shut up to people when you don't like what someone has to say is pretty close minded and can cause tunnel vision and revenge voting.. As sotty stated, personality clashes can definately hinder the game.

[Thian]

do you feel better now Jora?

[Thian]

Jora, we are okay. It really is just a game and we were all clueless at times.

[Thian]

is that a middle finger?