Newbie 1120 - The Scum in Sherlock (Over!)

[cloudocean]

vote: Thor665

[cloudocean]

I changed my mind.

vote:Swag136

[cloudocean]

I will tell you why I changed my mind later.

@Ninja: How is changing my mind inherently scummy?
@Thor: Are you joking? Sarcasm is really hard to see over the internet.

[cloudocean]

@Hellhound1
How is "I will tell you later" sneaky in anyway? Also, do you think that me being accused implicates me leaving the game?

[cloudocean]

@Thor
1. I will give you a good explanation after D1 has progressed a little bit.
2. I am wondering if you are joking about calling ninjacheese town.
3. Can you explain how changing my mind is scummy?
4. "Maybe you should actually respond to them" - does this mean you want Hiplop to bandwagon?

[cloudocean]

@Hellhound1
1. Can you point out where I said I would explain my revote "the next day"?
2. Can you also point out where I said my explanation is "important"?

[cloudocean]

@Hellhound1
1.

In case you get called out and try to stay in by saying you'll tell us something important

the next day?

2. I don't think degree in importance has a link to an instant explanation.

@Thor665
1. You're going to have to wait. I can't answer your second question as of now.
2. How is bandwagoning "townish"?
3. I am going to quote you.

Obvious scum is obvious.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that such a statement is quite definitive. At that point, I made no indication that I couldn't explain my revote right away.
Thus, A. Can you explain why you're contradicting yourself?
B. Can you not avoid the question? Unless there's a good reason as to why you're avoiding explaining a "scumtell."

[cloudocean]

1. Do you think the state of conjecture excuses one from backing up their words? Also, I'd just like to point out that as seen, I did not "put words in [your] mouth."
2. Fair.

Explanation for revote:

I RV'd, noticed Thor was an IC and figured that a BW on a noob would probably lead to more useful reactions.
There are two reasons I did not BW onto Awesoma:
1. I figured that jumping BW's from an IC to a complete newbie would complicate things. As such, my conclusion was that I had to start my own bandwagon to be as discrete as possible.
2. I do not like people with "swag."

[cloudocean]

@Thor665
1. You seem pretty confident that I'm scum. Something that you have failed to fully explained, in my opinion
2. I am going to point out the contradiction.

- You voted me and called me "obvious scum."
- When asked why revoting is scummy, you said that I wasn't scummy until after I refused to explain my revote.
- You called me "obvious scum" before I essentially said "I'm not going to explain until later."
- Conclusion: You changed your story midway. That is a contradiction. Nice try though.

3. I gave the reason. Also, please explain why scum would revote. I also explained why I demurred my response. Please explain how I am still "scum."
4. Value: I was trying to salvage the situation and continue on with my attempts to get the BW going. Obviously, it did not work.

@Hellhound1
1. I did not misquote you. I left out the end, because I do not feel a state of conjecture excuses one from backing their own words - a belief that you have failed to challenge as per my request (i.e. you avoided my question).
2. Is there a reason why you're still voting me?
3. Is there a reason why you unvoting changes the fact that you voted him [Awesoma] and he felt a need to respond?

@Awesoma
1. Your vote didn't seem like a "RV" to me at all - but rather an OMGUS. This is strengthened by "Ah, I see that you unvoted me, therefore, I will unvote you!" Is there a reason why you said your vote was part of the RV stage?

[cloudocean]

Just noticed.

When I said "you said that I wasn't scummy..." I am apportioning confidence to the relative statement. I do not feel as if "you were kinda scummy then" warrants a "obvious scum is obvious."

@Awesoma
1. I am fairly sure I have received a neutral role once - maybe twice. It seems like you didn't actually read my "100+ posts." Is there a reason why you lied?
2. Your "thoughts on ocean" didn't give any information pertinent to what has happened in this game. Please answer the question better.

[cloudocean]

@Awesoma
Thoughts on what has happened in this game specifically so far?
I would suggest looking at Thor's contradiction.

unvote

Reasoning: No point anymore.

[cloudocean]

@Thor665
1. See post 39. That would make 3 yes'es = conclusion affirmed.
2. I love it when people bring up the "town knows that they aren't scummy" argument. This is wrong because town

can

be scummy. The goal of a townie is to get scum lynched. Being scummy and thereby avoiding lynching scum is not in the best interest of a townie. As such, a townie should work towards not acting scummy.
3. "Retroactive RV reasoning." <-- This doesn't make any sense. You completely ignored my explanation without refuting it. Are you saying that reaction testing an experienced player is going to reveal more interesting results than reaction testing a newb?
4. The bandwagon I was trying to start. I was trying to salvage my efforts, and thereby try to continue the BW.

@Awesoma
1. I never said you accused me. Why do you continue to bring up a non-existent argument?
2. I was replaced the second game. Also, mafia goon =/= SK. Also, why do you keep bringing up old games? Moderators don't assign roles based upon what the player has been in the past.
3. You are defending Thor... because he hasn't been mafia a lot.... obvious scum team is obvious?
4. Why would you hop on to the BW? You have stated multiple times before that it's too early to make a decision. In addition, you have expressed interest in voting wisely to catch scum. Hopping onto a BW for no reason =/= voting wisely. Like Thor, you're contradicting yourself. You advocate scumhunting and yet you BW mindlessly. Prove me wrong by bringing up an unique point that indicates I am scum. (i.e. What have I done in between the post where you said you've never accused me and want to continue thinking, and the post where you BW).

@Hellhound1
1. You never gave your opinion on Thor's contradiction. What makes him town? He hasn't done anything remotely townie. Buddying (calling ninja town), using faulty logic (calling my revote explanation a retroactive RV), and contradicting himself (see most recent posts by myself) is hardly townie.


@all
Here are my reads so far
1. Thor: Buddied ninja. Faulty logic that requires a refutation of my own revote explanation - a refutation that was never made. Contradicted self. = Scum.
2. Awesoma: Makes decisions based on past roles. Contradicted self (see #4 under Awesoma in this post). Buddied Thor. = Leaning scum.
3. Ninja: Was buddied by Thor --> leaning town. No need for scum to buddy their own partners so early on...

Everyone else is null.

Vote: Thor665

Reasoning: See above.

[cloudocean]

Forgot:
When I say "Being scummy and thereby avoiding lynching scum is not in the best interest of a townie." I mean a scummy townie is probably going to get lynched. This would avoid lynching scum (@Thor #2)

[cloudocean]

@Hellhound1:
1. I asked him if it was a joke. He gave a shitty reason. It was not sarcasm. Also, scum buddies wouldn't buddy eachother.
2. What evidence? I explained my revote logic. He never gave an actual refutation. He literally said "so silly! random RV retroactive reason! obvious scum!"

Please give me 3 bullet points of reasons that I haven't refuted.

3. You also act like he's the only one fitting evidence.

I have asked you multiple times about his contradiction and you have ignored me.

I don't understand why you are ignoring that point.
4. You are voting me. Yet you offer no definitive evidence or reasoning. You are advocating scumhunting based upon BW'ing of people who have yet to contribute. I would like to remind you that

I am at L-1

. If someone hops on my BW I am lynched. This is a fallacy in itself.
5. [quote=Hellhound1]Maybe one of them will try jumping on the BW, and we catch scum, or it BWs on them...[/quote]

THIS IMPLICITLY ADMITS THAT I AM NOT SCUM

. Why are you voting for me if you think that we can catch scum based upon who votes for me?
6. Why are you sheeping blindly and literally sucking off the IC? I am getting frustrated.

[cloudocean]

Mod, what is your policy on double posting?

@edit
1. "random RV retroactive reason" = Meant to say RV retroactive reason. Mistyped in my rage.
2. Dunno why the quoting didn't come out right

@all
Will be gone for the rest of the day. I am assuming that we aren't going to be lynching on the first real life day of the game/3 pages in.

[cloudocean]

@ninjacheese

Show me where I've misquoted someone/taken something out of context.

@Hellhound1

Show me where I've contradicted myself.

@Thor665

1. If I were scum why would I attract attention to myself (revoting, prolonging explanation)?
2. Why would I even prolong the explanation as scum? What purpose does it serve me?

[cloudocean]

@Hellhound1 and Ninjacheese

Point me towards some of Thor665's "constructive posts."

If that's not why you think he's town then explain why

[cloudocean]

... There is no contradiction ...

Ninja was buddied by Thor literally three posts in... Awesoma buddied Thor by BW'ing a few posts after saying "I think we should be careful!" (i.e. Awesoma's buddying was contradictory to a statement he made before and opportunistic) ... notice the statement in #3 - "so early on."

... Me defending myself is scummy ...? What? So am I not supposed to defend myself? Would that be more townie?

I also have been scumhunting. Notice how I went after Thor for his contradiction and awesoma for reasons given. I would love to see a comparative analysis between your posts and mine to see who has done more scumhunting.

[cloudocean]

@Thor665

1. Your accusation doesn't make any sense. In my opinion, I haven't misquoted anyone taken something out of context. Prove me wrong.
2. I'm glad you brought this up. I didn't think me re-voting would be that big of a deal - and even if it were, I figured I could just explain my thought process. I prolonged my explanation because I hoped that people (read: you) would get a hint and wait until I had finished my attempts to get a newb BW going (to draw better reactions). I'd love to attack your reasoning but it doesn't exist... you called my explanation "silly" and "obvious" but that just ignores it without actually refuting it. Nice try though.
3. I find it interesting that you have admitted it's not optimal scum play. I think that the relevance of this questioning is quite blatant and obvious. I'm not saying that I'm the perfect player, but it doesn't really take an IQ of 200 to not attract attention as scum.
4. It took me 3 hours to come up with an explanation? If I were scum then wouldn't I have an explanation prepared to give right away - just in case? I'd like to point out my explanation isn't exactly unbelievable. It seems pretty logical to me. Do you think that an IC-scum would probably know how to react to a BW more than a newbie?

Your line of reasoning seems pretty weak to me. I also find it interesting that you don't FoS Awesoma, considering he buddied you and is making decisions based upon previous games. Looks like you're trying to push an "easy" lynch to me.

[cloudocean]

@Thor665

.............. His contradiction is interrelated to his buddying ..... I'll break it down for you:
- Awesoma says that he'll reserve his vote until he gets more information
- A couple of posts later, he votes me for the sake of joining the BW
- This is opportunistic (<-- Do I have to explain that to you?)
- His reasoning contradicts the statement he made before. (i.e. "We should be careful!" --> "Welp, might as well vote!"

@Hellhound1

I. Gave. A. Read. Where. I. Said. I. Thought. They. Were. Scum.

You still haven't show me how I've twisted your words.

Show me how Thor didn't contradict himself.... and how do you not have a read on Awesoma yet? Do you think making decisions based on previous games is townie?

[cloudocean]

@hiphop

1. I still have to do a more in-depth read than the skim I just did - but Awesoma is my second choice scum
2. Also, lol @ Thor OMGUS'ing
3. Why is Thor town?

@Thor665
1. I've already addressed your explanation. Look to post 39. Again, there aren't any contradictions that I haven't refuted. Try again.
2. Scumhunter brings up a good point. Why have you done nothing except tunnel me? What's your opinion on Awesoma?

@Hellhound1
1. (Post 27) I directly quoted you. I left the last bit out because I felt it wasn't necessary - it didn't change the meaning and you never responded to me when I asked "does conjecture excuse backing words up?" There was no twisting of words.
2. (Post 60) Already addressed this. Explained it twice. Try again.
3. Why are you on Thor's dick?
4. Why is Awesoma leaning town? I want 3 solid reasons.

@ninjacheese
1. You never gave me an instance where I contradicted myself/misquoted someone. I have already addressed posts 60 and 27. I would urge you to find me something original that shows me contradicting myself/misquoting someone.
2. You haven't done anything except jump on the cloudocean wagon, got any opinions on other people?