Newbie 1122 (Game Over|Scum Win)

ValiliaRei · Post Post #9 (isolation #0) » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:17 pm

This is my first game on this site. I've never played on a forum before, but I played irl years ago.

Random voting? I suppose I'll...

VOTE: Scholsey

He's the only one not to confirm yet.

ValiliaRei · Post Post #25 (isolation #1) » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:17 am

Panacea wrote:

1) About how many games have you played on MafiaScum.net? About how many have you played elsewhere?
2) Which time zone are you in?
3) Cake or pie?
4) Are you scum? Why or why not?
5) Do you prefer scum or Town roles?

1. This is my first game on mafiascum.net. I played irl years ago.
2. PDT (GMT -8)
3. Cake - but just barely.
4. No. Because I'm not.
5. I enjoy all the different roles.

ValiliaRei · Post Post #39 (isolation #2) » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:06 pm

About this Packbat bandwagon...

zMuffinMan wrote:VOTE: Packbat

First step to winning is killing off the IC.

zMuffinMan wrote:

Which I guess is a good point to bring up now. IIoA is generally a bad thing. Not so much of a problem in newbie games, because it's a learning experience, but you want to focus more on actually scum hunting than talking about things unrelated to helping you find scum.

zMuffinMan was the first to vote for Packbat. Judging by his join date, he is not a complete newbie, and would realize the benefits to having an IC and not immediately lynching them. This seems unhelpful to the town. In his next post he mentions IIoA and tries to put more suspicion on Packbat, saying that he's spending too much time posting information to the newbies, and says that it's not a problem for the newbies in the same breath. Again, seems unhelpful for town.

smallpeoples343 wrote:That being said, scum players don't try to get killed. So, people who are desperate are scum. Let's try a wagon!

VOTE: Packbat

Smallpeoples343 was the next to vote Packbat, after unvoting Ellf. Looks like he's trying out a random wagon like Packbat did with numberQ.

numberQ wrote:

Now, this senseless bandwagon against me is, quite frankly, senseless. Packbat's the IC, so he has more experience than us by definition, so I'm a little wary of him putting the second vote on my bandwagon. I don't want to get into a WIFOM thing (thank you for that term, wiki), but basically I'm thinking he's either pressuring me to see how I react to determine if I'm scum or not, or he knows I'm Townie since he's scum and is trying to get a bandwagon started so I get lynched. I think that's a healthy amount of suspicion to have for Mafia, and since this is RVS anyway, I'll put a vote on him.

VOTE: Packbat

numberQ was the third to vote Packbat. First he says the vote on him is senseless, then explains the logic (not illogic) behind Packbat's vote for him. Then proceeds to OMGUS vote him while claiming it was a random vote. This vote does not seem very random.

Right now I have suspicions about zMuffinMan and numberQ, but my suspicions on zMuffinMan are stronger. So...

UNVOTE: Scholsey/Robin the Boy Wonder
VOTE: zMuffinMan

ValiliaRei · Post Post #58 (isolation #3) » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:08 am

zMuffinMan wrote:
val wrote:zMuffinMan was the first to vote for Packbat. Judging by his join date, he is not a complete newbie, and would realize the benefits to having an IC and not immediately lynching them. This seems unhelpful to the town. In his next post he mentions IIoA and tries to put more suspicion on Packbat, saying that he's spending too much time posting information to the newbies, and says that it's not a problem for the newbies in the same breath. Again, seems unhelpful for town.

What are the benefits do not 'immediately' lynching the IC? Do you think there are benefits to 'immediately' lynching someone else? Do you think Packbat was in danger of being 'immediately' lynched?

And, er, not even sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your post. What was unhelpful for town, exactly?

The main benefit of not immediately lynching the IC is keeping around an experienced player until they show a tell one way or the other. You voted before that happened, saying that the first step to winning was killing the IC.

No, there are no benefits to immediately lynching somebody else. My point is that it is especially not beneficial to immediately lynch the most experienced player.

Packbat got to L-2 barely into page two. An immediate lynch seemed like a possibility.

I am saying that wanting to lynch an experienced player at the beginning of the game when he hasn't shown any tells one way or the other is unhelpful for the town. You also accused Packbat of IIoA, mentioning that while it's not really a problem in this game because of the newbies, it's a bad idea. So is it good for this game, or bad? You contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

Please explain how what you've done so far is helpful for a newbie town, and not as unhelpful as I think it is.

ValiliaRei · Post Post #133 (isolation #4) » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:25 pm

Okay, I'm back. I apologize for being gone for so many days.

Spoiler: Quotes

I agree with Panacea here. numberQ, why are you just paraphrasing what people are saying? Why aren't you adding anything new to the discussion?

Spoiler: Quotes

I ISO'd your posts and read through them real quick. Every one of the posts besides your first one with your RQS answers and your RV on Packbat were you being defensive and saying that you're sorry and that town could act the way you're acting, too. Why haven't you done any scumhunting so far? Why is it all backtracking and over the top protesting your innocence? It doesn't help that none of us can tell whether this is the way you usually act when you play or if you're really scum. There are naturally nervous and jumpy people out there that act weird even if they do nothing wrong. A question to the three experienced folks - How many times has it happened where someone was just a very nervous person, but still not scum? That's an okay thing to ask, right?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@zMuffinMan - I've explained more than once why I think quick-lynching is a bad idea. You have yet to explain why you think it could be a good thing. I don't like this from you. It screams scum to me more than anything else, even numberQ's jumpiness and nervousness. I don't like how you've dodged the question. As long as you act incapable of giving any answer at all, my vote is staying on you.

@Panacea - You can use Val, Rei, whatever is easiest for all of you. I'm not picky.

ValiliaRei · Post Post #155 (isolation #5) » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:26 pm

Thanks guys for answering my question. I've heard about honest people failing lie detector tests because they were so nervous, and guilty people who pass because they know how to fool it. So I just feel that nervousness and jumpiness, defensiveness or whatever you want to call it is as much of a tell as confidence and smooth talking is. Which in my mind is not much of a tell.

zMuffinMan wrote:Why does this 'scream scum' to you? At best, my stance on quick lynching is somewhat disagreeable and could be argued as anti-town, but do you really think this is something I'd say as scum and something I wouldn't say as town?

Thanks for answering about the quick-lynching. I don't think it's a good idea. I agree that it could be seen as anti-town. In a newbie game, where we need all the help we can get, I don't like seeing things that even seem like they could be seen as anti-town. As far as whether I think that is something you could say as scum or town, I think that's WIFOM, right? The best way I can see to find scum is to look for things that are anti-town. Even though it looks like everybody is saying it was a joke, you really wanted to defend it, and you didn't seem to mind when the wagon got to L-2.

@Panacea - I agree that numberQ's vote was an OMGUS vote. But, do you think that he's lying when he says he wasn't paying attention to how many votes Packbat had received already?

@numberQ - When you're not paraphrasing one of us then you're continuously defending yourself, saying sorry and that you didn't realize you were the third vote on Packbat. You ended up paraphrasing my words again in a later post.

ValiliaRei · Post Post #197 (isolation #6) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:54 am

@zMuffinMan

Just to make sure, I went back and reread the wiki on WIFOM. Your question "Is it something that I'd only do as scum?" is like a variation of the example question on the wiki page: "But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you. Are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet, or his enemy's?"

Are you the sort of person who would only do this as town? Even if I check your meta, you could be playing against it this game, since people know your meta. Or you could be playing right along with it, making people think that you might be playing against it, but you might not be. There's no way I can know for sure, so I have to make a judgement call and decide whether I thought it was scummy or not.

If I do have it totally wrong, then somebody please help explain it to me.

@numberQ

I'm not sure how I was being circular, and I don't understand your reasoning behind it. Would you explain again for me?

Putting together another post that will come later tonight.

ValiliaRei · Post Post #216 (isolation #7) » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:41 pm

@zMuffinMan

We were talking about quick-lynching. You and I agree that it looks anti-town. You just say that you could get tells off of it. What we're disagreeing on is whether or not you asking if advocating quick-lynching is "something you would do only as scum" is WIFOM. I don't think we're going to agree on this. And yes, I think it is scummy. And I don't think that your RVS vote was really a joke, either. My vote is staying on you. I'm actually rather flabbergasted that a majority see you as town after saying something like that, because I don't understand why.

@numberQ

I think you misinterpreted me. I don't think you were lying, and I'm not convinced one way or the other whether you're scum or town. That's why I mentioned the unreliability of lie detectors because nervous, jumpy and defensive people can fail them even though they're innocent, and vice versa. And it looks like being jumpy and defensive is all anyone can say against you. To me it's all a null tell.

ValiliaRei · Post Post #239 (isolation #8) » Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:07 pm

I'm voting for the person I think is the most suspect. I have gut feelings about everyone else, but that's it. I figure that day two will be a day to make more informed opinions based on the day one lynch, the night one kill, and everyone's reactions and interactions with those people. But since you ask, here are my takes on people:

Packbat - Not posting as often anymore. Some IIoA continues even after the game started rolling. Sudden 180 on his thoughts on zMuffinMan. Sudden, little explained vote on Maruchan.

Panacea - No real vote yet, just the prod vote of RBW/Oman and a flamboyant FoS on Maruchan

Oversoul and smallpeoples - Possible rolefishing

Oman - no read yet. Not enough posts from him or RBW.

Maruchan - Lots of talking and the strange question about quicktopics.

I'm assuming everyone knows already how I see zMuffinMan and numberQ.

ValiliaRei · Post Post #271 (isolation #9) » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:08 am

@Packbat - Thanks for the answer. I can see where you're coming from now.

@Maruchan - Can you tell me why you were so concerned about the quick topic that you needed to post a question about it?

@Panacea - Why did you make a fancy FoS? Why not just vote if you're that suspicious?

ValiliaRei · Post Post #281 (isolation #10) » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:49 pm

I've ISO'd Maruchan's posts. The first thing I noticed was that very single opinion he's had has been a rewarmed opinion from somebody else.

Maruchan wrote:
But personality doesn't mean I totally erase you from my mind in all pictures of scummieness, after all, from my POV, you all are scum.
6 of you are just less scum
.

This caught my eye because the math seemed off. Maruchan minus "most scummy person" leaves seven people remaining. But, Maruchan minus scum partner minus "most scummy person" leaves six people remaining. Scumslip?

Panacea wrote:@Maru: Where'd you hear about QuickTopics, exactly?

Maru wrote:
I read about like 30 wiki pages, all the rules, and the instructions on the Queue thread, along with read through most of the interactive newbie guide before I even began to sign up for the sight. I could prowl my Browser History if you like, and tell you the exact page I first saw it on?

If you had read that much on the wiki and website, then why didn't you try to wiki "quick topic" before you posted? I tried it just now to see and it had the explanation and link to the external site right there on the page. I also checked the timestamps on your posts, and you posted your question in the queue, received your answer, thanked them for answering, then reposted the question here for us to see. Why did we need to see it? Were you trying to make yourself look like a "confirmed town" since

*sarcasm* scum couldn't possibly be that clueless about quicktopics */sarcasm*

UNVOTE: zMuffinMan
VOTE: Maruchan

ValiliaRei · Post Post #294 (isolation #11) » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:04 am

Maruchan wrote:
This, found in game table 1119, is the first mention I had of QuickTopics, by which time I had quit scrounging the wiki, and had therefore not considered wiking it.

But after looking at the history you posted, it looks like you still used the wiki even after you saw the term "quick topic."

You found the mafia wiki at midnight of the 6th. You looked at various wiki pages and eventually looked at the newbie game at 12:47AM, which is where you say you first saw the term "quick topic." Around 7PM-ish, you created your account. In between the time you created your account and replaced into this game, you wiki'd:

Karma
Vel-Rahn Koon
WIFOMGUS
WIFOMproducts®
OMGUS
Commonly Used Abbreviations

After you had already replaced into this game, you wiki'd:

Finger of Suspicion
Lynch All Liars
Game Moderator

Then I noticed that this history was from the 6th. You waited around 40 hours to ask about quicktopics, which happened at 5:40PM on the 7th. Why were you able to think of looking up other terms on the wiki even after you joined the site and saw the quicktopic term, but not think to look up quicktopic itself?

If something "bugs you and bugs you" until you figure it out, why did you let it bug you for almost two days before you finally asked?