Newbie 1122 (Game Over|Scum Win)

[Panacea]

Hello, hello! I'll be one of your SE's for this game. This is actually my sixth game on this site, but this will be my first since a year-long hiatus, so please bear with me as I reacclimate (Look at how much easier it is to code these days!! Ooooh, a "vote" button?!)

But I digress!

Looks like we've already gotten started on the Random Vote Stage of the game (my personal favorite). To that end,

VOTE: smallpeoples343, because "Peoples," is like a double-plural.

Now then, the other option to the RVS stage is the Random Question Stage. Though I like RVS for its entertainment value, a little bit of RQS is also good for kicking off a game and getting some basic information. So! Could you all try to answer a few for me, if you haven't already?

1) About how many games have you played on MafiaScum.net? About how many have you played elsewhere?
2) Which time zone are you in?
3) Cake or pie?
4) Are you scum? Why or why not?
5) Do you prefer scum or Town roles?

1) As I said, this will be my sixth after a year away. None played elsewhere.
2) Central time, U.S.A.
3) Cake. Definitely cake. Oooh... Cake would be

amazing

right now! Yes, I know it's 1 AM.
4) Nope. Because I'm not. (Rush fans in the house? Yes? )
5) Town. I find it's a lot less stressful.

Looking forward to a good game.

[Panacea]

Now then, the other option to the RVS stage is the Random Question Stage. Though I like RVS for its entertainment value, a little bit of RQS is also good for kicking off a game and getting some basic information. So! Could you all try to answer a few for me, if you haven't already?

[ic]I highly recommend answering questions under all circumstances, even when the answer is "No comment".[/ic]

Heh, sorry, I'd

intended

there to be three questions, so "a few," was initially all. But then I drafted 8, which seemed too much to ask, then settled for 5 and forgot to change it, lol.

********************************************

That's L-2 on me.

You think

that's

bad, how about this!

UNVOTE: smallpeoples343
VOTE: Packbat.

Okay! Now someone, quick, hammer! Let's lynch the most experienced player after a page and change, end the Day early halfway through the RVS and RQS stages and when some players have only gotten in one post at all!! Go, go, go! MUAHAHAHA!!

Eh... No.

UNVOTE: Packbat.

(SORRY, MOD!! <3)

That's exactly what they want. I think there is probably a small amount of scumalliciousness about this wagon... Scum coming in would have to anticipate the IC as a threat by default. That's how it is. An early wagon on the IC would be like a giant cake (since that seems to be the majority. ) with cherries and a frosted noose on top for a scummie, so let's try to keep that in mind.

zMuffinMan

: I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt, because he tossed out a textbook RV with a comic explanation.

SmallPeoples

:I'm also not leaning scum on this vote, because offering pressure is what RVing is for.

NumberQ

:This one strikes me the wrong way... It's a bit OMGUS-y for my liking, honestly.

since this is RVS anyway, I'll put a vote on him.

3. He's playing his vote both ways: he (a) gives justification for it and (b) calls it random.

NumberQ, a vote stops being a Random Vote when it has justification attached. I think you probably just weren't aware of that. So congratulations, you've placed the first actual vote for Newbie 1122.

There's not a lot else to do until something scummier happens. So on to different matters.
I want to hear more from Oversoul. And anything at all from Scholsey.

[Panacea]

Nah, no town read to speak of for Packbat. I just think a quick wagon on the IC is opportunistic.

[Panacea]

@Panacea

I think there is probably a small amount of scumalliciousness about this wagon... Scum coming in would have to anticipate the IC as a threat by default. That's how it is.

This is the quote in particular that makes me think you have some sort of town read on Packbat. Yeah, I could understand you being slightly suspicious of a wagon on the IC on page 2 (I'm personally not looking too deeply into it yet, so meh), but if Packbat were scum, why would he be a threat to scum?

Sorry, I should rephrase: I don't have a town read on him, but I don't have a scum read on him, either. I anticipate that I'll get a better feel for him either way through this whole NumberQ -- Packbat debacle. Though it doesn't really matter: regardless of his scummi- towniness or even his IC status, quicklynches this early when there is so little discussion are not Town. That's how I see it, anyway. If y'all still want to lynch him later, by all means!

[Panacea]

Welcome, Robin!

[Panacea]

Packbat, how do you feel about MuffinMan's remarks in regards to your posts and IIoA?

[Panacea]

Panacea, did you mean to remove your vote from smallpeoples343?

Sorry, I missed this yesterday. Well, it wasn't really doing anything where it was, so it didn't seem to matter, either way.

Panacea: Well, I wouldn't say I've been posting information instead of analysis - until recently, there was nothing to analyze; we were in R(V/Q)S.

I can accept this answer as valid, thank you. I'll admit that MuffinMan had me questioning the intentions behind all of your advice, and how you responded to him was going to affect whether or not I pursued it as potential scumplay. However, a massive chunk of this game so far has been your tips an pointers, and it doesn't really look like anyone is reading them, judging from the lack of response... That felt really harsh to say, I'm so sorry! My point is that you might just want to save your (metaphorical) breath. I know longer posts tend to discourage players from reading them through (not to say I'm not prodigiously guilty!), and I've already seen one comment about "parsing" from Elff, and NumberQ admits to not looking very closely at the posts. I'm sorry, I really am not trying to be mean. If it helps, I really wish you'd IC'd my first game, because it took me months to figure out this stuff.

In other news, I'm not really liking NumberQ's backtrack in #44. (Packbat, could you refresh me on how to include the specific link-to-post?) But hasty backpedaling always strikes me as scummy. NumberQ, did Packbat personally do something to alleviate some of his scumminess in your eyes?

The main benefit of not immediately lynching the IC is keeping around an experienced player until they show a tell one way or the other. You voted before that happened, saying that the first step to winning was killing the IC.

ValiliaRei, I can see the rest of your case on MuffinMan, but wasn't his vote pretty obviously frivolous in true RVS fashion? And is there a nickname you prefer? I have a mental block on your spelling, lol.

I am saying that wanting to lynch an experienced player at the beginning of the game when he hasn't shown any tells one way or the other is unhelpful for the town.

A lynch this early, especially on an IC, especially on an IC that I can't read as either scum or town yet, seems like a bad idea to me.

MafiaScum.net is going green! Recycling one statement at a time.

[Panacea]

@Packbat, please scratch my request for post-to-link; just figured it out.

[Panacea]

So... Robin. Seeing anything worth your commentary?

[Panacea]

LOL! Noted. Robin will be RBW with me, then.

[Panacea]

Oversoul! I thought you'd abandoned us!

Basically, the fact that the mafia members know who is and isn't scum will seep into their posts subconsciously and townies should therefore be on the look out for players that are seemingly absent from suspicion from each other.

Basically, I read this statement and conjured a post to bookmark it for later in the game. Carry on!

[Panacea]

Really..? Nothing about this seems newbish to me. Please feel free to post manymanymany more of those.

My meta is the total opposite= I post quite often. As I'm almost always NK'ed early, I have to assume it's threatening to scum, which only makes me post more. It also makes me hyper-aware of when specific players aren't participating enough, and I tend to politely (then not-so-politely ) encourage them to post more. (RBW was tonight's.)

Ellf, yeah, the likelihood of both scummies being in the SE or IC slots is, while entirely plausible, improbable. However, I do agree with whoever hinted at it earlier in the game: a person's SE or IC status does not exempt them from harboring a chewy scummy center. On a semi-related note, my last game saw a crazy amount of RayFrost fangirlism from me, which I think might have contributed to my downfall. Try not to ever just trust someone coming in, even an IC (or in my case, a player you have reason to idolize. ).

[Panacea]

Also I wouldn't terribly mind a quick-lynch happening like that. As bad as people think it would be, I think it would be pretty telling.

I can't agree with that. I don't care if a player comes in with a signature that reads "Sure can't wait to get some townies mislynched in Newbie #1122, because I r scum!" We let them live longer than two pages Day 1, because we need reads. Even if we'd lynched Packbat and he had flipped scum, it'd sure make finding his scumbuddy easier if, y'know, every player had posted more than like three times (some hadn't even had that! Some STILL haven't! ) before his demise.

I am saying that wanting to lynch an experienced player at the beginning of the game when he hasn't shown any tells one way or the other is unhelpful for the town.

I don't see how it's any different to lynching any other player under the same circumstances. ICs can draw scum PMs, you know.

The same problem I had with Panacea. You act like the IC is town

Yes, but I agree with Viola's view of the IC as a veritable PR in a Newbie game. If I'd come in as scum (WIFOM, WIFOM, WIFOM, WIIIIIIIIFOM!!!), an early wagon on any player would be like Christmas in June. An early wagon on the IC would be like, like... like something

better

than Christmas in June! He's by no means cleared. But at the time, there was

very

little, if any, reason to lynch him. I don't like to lynch IC's D1 with little to no reason.

MuffinMan, I'm like 90% certain that your vote on Packbat was just some humor on your part (and I lovelovelovelove humor, so yay, you!). But how do you feel about the votes immediately following yours? Do you feel that theirs were enough on which to base a lynch the IC pg. 2, D1?

Lest I forget,
VOTE: Robin The Boy Wonder, to get his attention. We're 81 (now 82) posts in, and two have been from him. One to place a vote he never pursued (random or not, the point is to put pressure on a player, and he never did anything with it), and one to apologize for not doing more. Let's have your analysis so far, RTBW.

[Panacea]

Please tell me there is more coming, RTBW...

[Panacea]

Going on a little vacation this weekend. Meaning I might not have internet access. I'll be back on Monday.

Question: do we have a replace for Elff, while you're still here?

Second to follow soon.

[Panacea]

Sorry for the delay; late night at work. Here's what I've got:

I kind of feel the MuffinMan / Packbat debate to be town vs. town. I don't have much more than gut to support it, so I'll leave this there.

Scum is trying to look like Town, y'know, just like everyone else. I don't see how caution is a Mafia-only thing.

Why would town be trying to look town? All they have to do is play the game normally and defend themselves when the occasion presents itself.

This is a good point, and Oversoul's note of it made it easier to catch this:

Okay, what would you have me do? I've been responding to everything that's been said to me, which, to me, looks like it's been contributing to the discussion.

"Looks like?" You're awfully preoccupied with how you appear to us, NumberQ... Why?

Moving on. I ask about replacing Elff because Rei's out with her flu and RTBW is apparently helping his friend move to China on foot. The lack of activity is... upsetting, to say the least. We are at 105 posts total, and 3 (3.12%) of those posts have been from RTBW.

But wait! It gets better! Wanna have a laugh? ISO RTBW.

RTBW's Post #1

: Answers RQS questions, places an unexplained, unjustified vote on Smallpeoples.

RTBW's Post #2

: Explains lack of activity, and promises to add feedback soon.

RTBW's Post #3

: Quotes a Packbat/NumberQ conversation, adds one sentence of his own. Quotes Packbat, adds one sentence of his own. (I add that neither of these sentences offers much content.)


RTBW, how do you feel about Lynch All Liar policies?

I won't vote you until you respond to this post.

As an aside, you can always Finger of Suspicion (FoS) him. Your case on him is very un-newbish.

[Panacea]

And happy birthday, Packbat!!

[Panacea]

I'll be in soon, y'all! Celabrating Independence Day tonight.

[Panacea]

But we all have to work on the fifth.

[Panacea]

Can I revote Oman's slot, reason being sexiness? I'll have a nice long catch-up post later tonight. Oman, how do you feel about your predessessor's play?

Also, *squeal* WELCOME, Oman!!!!!

[Panacea]

Back in the saddle again! (H'Okay, no Rush fans, how about Aerosmith? ) Sorry about the length, but I haven't had time to post non-mobilly.

Panacea:

Any thoughts on Robocopter87?

Yes; that he is my Mod, and that

<1> [His] rule is Law, [he] settle

debates. If

reject [his] rules then it shall result in a Modkill.

That's kind of an odd question, though... What prompted it?

What I see and deduce from Number's posts is that he was uncomfortable with the wagon that formed on him so early in the game and felt compelled to defend himself from Ellf and Packbat and their "accusations". That is why I called him cautious (there were no accusations made against him at the time of his vote on Packbat).

Normally I could get behind this with a little Newbie-queue patience, since I have seen this. However, the fact remains that his first reaction was to OMGUS-vote Packbat in the midst of the Packbat wagon, which rings opportunistic to me. We'll see if Oman's un-RTBW-ness frees my vote. Otherwise I'm considering lynching the number that comes after 'R.'

Looking back, I might have been mistaken actually. I thought he might have been either a town PR or a mafia member attempting all that he could to prevent himself from being lynched, but maybe not.

Looking back to when? When did you feel this way?

He is less scummy than before, but I still feel he is acting cautious because he has something to lose.

...This looks like rolefishing to me...

This post by Smallpeoples has me agreeing with MuffinMan's "fence-sitting" statement.

A question to the three experienced folks - How many times has it happened where someone was just a very nervous person, but still not scum? That's an okay thing to ask, right?

Um, I'd say more often than a scummy person has acted very nervous, but a lot of that is statistics. It's much more common in Newbie games, I've noticed, which is why I usually try to give the nervous player a break. Basically, NumberQ's OMGUSy Packbat vote was what made me deviate from the norm in this case and look more closely at him.

[Panacea]

@MuffinMan: I pretty much think it's always think there has to be some opportunism in jumping a runaway wagon D1. Also, your avi terrifies me.

[Panacea]

Yeah, but like, are you saying it's opportunistic because he was trying to get Packbat lynched or are you saying it's opportunistic for some other reason?

I'm saying it could've been a little of both, actually. I think it could be opportunistic for scum trying to get Packbat lynched as a player. Also, I think it would have been perfection for scum to have the IC so close to lynch so early in game. (I know you disagree, though. This is just my opinion.) Regardless of whether he's IC or not, it was still scummy to place a player so close to lynch so early because killing info so early is anti-Town in my eyes. Though I am willing to consider your stance that the runaway wagon would have been worth the sacrifice in exchange for how telling it might have been.

what I can't see is why she's still pursuing that train of thought after I explained that I hadn't read the topic properly (though I've learned from that and I'm actually reading the topic carefully before posting >_>) before that vote and didn't realize I was putting someone at L-2

To keep it concise, there is just too much WIFOM surrounding it in my mind to drop it.

And it's actually not the first time you've done this, Panacea. Back in post 62, you asked if I unvoted Packbat because he didn't seem scummy anymore. Looking back through some ISOs made me realize I never answered your question (my bad, I must not have seen it D:), but if I had I would have said that I answered it in the same post that I unvoted him. Doesn't particularly strike me as scummy, just odd.

Yeah, the point of the question was to see whether you'd dropped the vote because he'd done something to outweigh your view of his scummishness, or because you had gotten so much negative feedback for the vote in the first place. I just read your unvoteof Packbat again, and though I do see your explanation of confusing the votecount at the time, I still don't really see an explanation. Though re-reading that post, I noticed this:

In my defense, I was kind of hurting for time irl and I wanted to get a post up so it didn't seem suspicious that I wasn't posting.

You didn't want to seem suspicious?

Panacea, that wasn't rolefishing per se. Now I feel that Number is either a power role or mafia member and thus the "feel like he has something to lose" post.

But...If you thought he was a PR, why would you say so out loud..?

@Panacea - I agree that numberQ's vote was an OMGUS vote. But, do you think that he's lying when he says he wasn't paying attention to how many votes Packbat had received already?

No, I don't think he was lying. But I do think he was way too concerned with our opinions at the time of his unvote.

Good night, all!

[Panacea]

I said that NumberQ might be scum or a pr based on his cautiousness. zMuffin, seriously make up your god damn mind. I tried to be cryptic so I wouldn't be "so loud" and you guys call me out on it saying if I had something I should say it.

SE Powers: ACTIVATE!! I think it's a knee-jerk reaction that carries from non-Newbie games. Typically scum are the only players concerned with PR's this early in, and it's primarily a Townie's job to conceal them until later in the game (Each Vanilla Townie has no weapon but a vote, while collectively, we have PR's). Look at it this way (I think the cat's effectively out of the bag by this point anyway, so I'll just explain unfiltered): there is a chance scum hadn't considered that motivation for Number's actions, and supposing that he is a PR, he might have escaped any scumtention at all N1. Now if he is not scum and we do not lynch him Today, he will be more closely examined by scum as a PR Tonight.

Also, to those who are "disappointed" (specifically zMuffinMan) about me outting Number as a possible power role or mafia, I just realized that Smallpeoples actually did it before me

Yeah... I remember making a point not to draw attention to it. I think what made yours more remarkable was the cryptic manner of presentation, while Small's was more a passing comment.

@Smallpeoples: Any commentary? Your V/LA was for Monday, but now you're just under prod-level.

This thread lacks Oman. Have you read up yet?

[Panacea]

V/LA through Sunday

. headed into the armpit of Texas, and I've learned not to assume that wifi will be readily available there. Will probably still post, but it will be mobile, so short. Coding on an iPhone is not super fun.

Mod, prod for Small, please?

[Panacea]

Welcome, Maruchan!

Packbat: Lol.

Small: Okay, I have to know, are you one of these super-young scummers that make me feel old?

[Panacea]

Oh, hi! I should've checked for a new page, lol. Hmm... To vote Maru because of his 4)?

Yeah, I keep hearing meta means different things on other sites. Here meta (v) means the action of reading through a player's old games looking for playstyle similarities. It's like going from a general literature course to a class localized to one author. It does match his meta, in my opinion, yes. Though I don't trust meta, as a rule.

Hm... Lunch break is over, but I'll add more later.

[Panacea]

Wait. Maru, aren't you voting Number and advocating a no-lynch at the same time?

[Panacea]

Thank you, Subway, for your wi-fi. Can't do much, but some things I'm getting:

NumberQ and MuffinMan are striking me as more Town the more they post. I think NumberQ blossomed under the spotlight. He seems like he's getting more confident. At this point I'd rather not lynch him Today. Though I might still be willing to test for counterclaims, as Packbat mentioned, if we get close to deadline. Though ONLY for counterclaims, mind you. MuffinMan has played pretty consistently; I guess every game's gotta have the aggressive player. It's just been my experience that their level of consistency makes the difference between town and scum.

Val is uncomfortably null for me, though leaning more Town for now. Oversoul is much the same.

Where is Oman? I was so thrilled to see him here.


Packbat is seeming almost... too Town (there is such a thing, lol. ) Just minor twinges, I guess. Something about his "Pop quiz!" pings my scumdar. On my phone, so I can't go back without losing this Post, but Packbat, is this your first IC game?

I agree with Packbat on Maru's unvote. It seems too concerned with appearances. I also don't like the "Remember to apply your Elff tells to me," comment. (Mainly because I'm having flashbacks to when I used almost that exact line after replacing into my last scum game. We won. ) I can't look, but had anyone mentioned anything about having tells on Elff when that comment was made?
UNVOTE: Oman.

Giant Flaming Hand of Suspicion: Maruchan

.

[Panacea]

Panacea already offered notification of V/LA. Will still be unable to post until I make it home tonight, as I said.

[Panacea]

H'okay! Been catching up my other game for the past two hours, and haven't even unpacked! Sorry, guys, but I'm going to have to make this a prod dodge until tomorrow. Just too tired tonight/this morning. :/ I'll make it count!

[Panacea]

Oh! Maru, will you consider an avatar? It makes reading a lot easier, believe it or not. G'night, all!

[Panacea]

Okay! Sorry, I don't really do many V/LA's, so don't worry that this might be frequent.

This is so completely my first IC game that it hurts.

Yeah, I'm running through Packbat's meta, and his play here seems to check out more as Town. Also, regardless of alignment, Packbat's super helpfulness is apparently specific to this game, which for now nullifies my "too-town" argument.

@Maru: I know some time has passed, but what prompted you to mention reads on Elff back in #207?

The end of pg. 8 leaves me with more of a town feel on Oversoul.

Early pg. 10 gives me town feel for Packbat, and I agree with his sentiment on Maruchan. Every post is rife with painstaking effort not to step on anyone's toes, and it doesn't necessarily get us anywhere. There are like a gajillion Ramen logos flashing across my screen, and none of the attached text does anything but ask softball questions.

@Maru: Why did you bring up softclaiming D1 like that? From my perspective, it looks like you're scum trying to gauge whether the most scrutinized player is a PR.

You keep side-stepping casebuilding by throwing up your hands and saying "I don't know." You need to stop that. Hunt scum, if you're a townie.

So I think Panacea, PackBat, or MuffinMan is part of the scum team.

And... your vote is on Rei..? Surely you don't think this setup is 4-way mafia?

@Maru: Where'd you hear about QuickTopics, exactly?

@Panacea - Why did you make a fancy FoS? Why not just vote if you're that suspicious?

Because at the time I was on my phone and needed to check into some things on a pc first. When I'm not voting people who've been out for too long, I tend to play my votes pretty close to my chest. For instance, I want to see some activity from Oman before I join the Maruchan wagon.

No, the implication is that you're playing dumb. But I think you already know that.

But what would he stand to gain from this? As town or as scum?

Rei, not that I'm saying you need to drop your case on MuffinMan, but you need to consider maybe that if you're both town, you've devoted a

lot

of time to him.

Please let me know if I missed anything!

[Panacea]

Damn, Rei! Townie-brownies for a good case.

I think Maru is the best lynch for today. However, I really can't feel good about it with absolutely no input from Oman. Assuming Maru flips scum, a possible Maru/Oman team is going to be virtually impossible to spot because they've had virtually no interaction.

MuffinMan, I misread, sorry. I thought Maru had said that was what he thought you'd meant, and you'd said it wasn't. I see it now.

[Panacea]

EBWOP: Repititious "virtually," ew.

Oversoul and NumberQ, this Maru wagon is overshadowing yours. What do you think about that?

[Panacea]

For the sake of accuracy, the second quote in Maru's #286 is Rei's, not mine.

Maru, your HP link is not relevant to this game. You also have to set up an account to view it, anyway. That would be a good way to bolster the number of that site's members, though, lol.

Completely off topic aside, but AHHHHH!!!! 2.5 days!!!!!!!!!!

[Panacea]

Whoa, everyone, chill out. Deadline is the nineteenth. Look at the thread title, lol! Harry Potter 7, pt. 2 is in 2.5 days. Sorry to freak out everyone. Told you it was off topic.

Val, this is some intense scumhunting. How did you uncover his search history like that? It seems like it wouldn't be allowed?

[Panacea]

Oh, lol. Ninja'd by the Mod! Wow, Robo, thank you for following the game so closely. It's really appreciated!

[Panacea]

EBWOP: just re-read, yup L2. 2 OMGUSes and yours Packbat.

I'm having a hard time reading this... Could you re-word it?

His partner is likely in val/oman

Oman I can understand because of sheer lack of input, but what about Val? Looking through your iso, she was null in your #32, then this quote was from your #42. You asked Oversoul for his read on Val in your #36, which makes me think the muffins were turning inside your head. Are you open to sharing what changed your mind?

Welcome, Vader!!

[Panacea]

Had to make this all its own post, just so I don't anger anyone:

@Panacea: I knew you were talking about Harry Potter. Going to the midnight premiere, aw yeah!

Me, too!! I put in a digital request for time off for today a 18 months ago. XD Going to rock!!

Books are better

!

I concur! That isn't going to stop me from waiting in line six hours in full Potter-gear!

/end HP luv

Never end!

[Panacea]

Ah,

now

I see it. Thanks!

[Panacea]

Vader, could to set up an avatar when you can?

Oversoul, I laughed so hard at your ^^^ post.

[Panacea]

Vader, by Maru trying to lynch the IC, do you mean MuffinMan's RV on Packbat? Because that wasn't Maru, for clarity's sake. Also, I wouldn't see that RV as particularly scummy by this point in the game. what do you think of your predecessor, Vader?

[Panacea]

Also, are you confident enough in his guilt to put him at L-1? Because your case is sort of flimsy... This looks like a potential bus, in my opinion.

Maru > Vader, but one of them needs to swing before the 19th.

[Panacea]

Is this a mistake on your part or a ploy to save your fellow scum? Just throwing out possibilities.

No. There was an "accidental hammer" in my first game, so I'm always hyper-conscious of L-1 status. The hammerer was scum, but he played the "I'm a newbie, I didn't mean to!" card, and tripped us up for a while. That being said, I'll always call it when I notice L-1.

Also, I'm sorry; Vader and Val have

very

different playstyles, and I was reading Val's vote as separate. My bad.

However, that second part of Vader's post hits my scumdar. First, it's grasping at straws, and second, I don't like the intended subtlety of the "just throwing out possibilities," bit. It feels insincere. Vader, how concerned are you with what we think of you? Val was doing pretty well, and I don't think MuffinMan was even too worried about her. You seem pretty self-conscious coming into a generally town-viewed slot. IGMEOY.

MEET THE DOC!

! LMFAO EPIC

What? Is this a joke I'm not getting, or are you talking about roles again?

Vader maybe, but I'm pretty confident Maru is town. And I'm more confident that Oversoul is scum.

What makes you say Maruchan is town?

Panacea: Any reads on small?

None at all, actually. I've just run an iso to answer your question, and the lack of actual scumhunting is a bit unsettling. I just can't decide if I think it's scummy, or just anti-Town.

Sorry. I've been having some bad weather lately. If there are any questions, feel free to ask.

Bad weather, literally, or metaphorically? Both are regrettable, but I'm sorry if it's the latter.

@Vader and Maruchan: I kind of feel like there could be something going on between you, though after some iso's, I think what I'm getting is a connection that you both recognize, the fact that you're both coming to this game as your first non-chat ones. That being said, if we found ourselves in a Lylo situation, would you each be less inclined to lynch the other?

[Panacea]

Oh! And as we've already discussed, tonight is HP, so... I might not be able to contribute too much more on tomorrow. ^^* It'll probably be mobile if there is anything, until that point.

[Panacea]

Packbat (or Oman, who I know is also an expert ), could you tell me how to code for an image? Thank you.

[Panacea]

No, this contributes nothing to the hunt, sorry. Won't make a habit of it. I hope y'all can forgive me this bit of barely-relevant humor.

[Panacea]

I'm sorry, I know, I just couldn't help it, and I thought it's get a laugh. ^^* So, back to scum! Just waiting for Vader's response to my last question.

[Panacea]

H'okay. *cracks knuckles* And now I will commence a rock-solid case on why we should lynch Vader's slot. Sorry for the wall, but I have a lot to say and not a lot of time to say it tonight:

All that aside, My suspicion has to go on Maruchan or Oversoul

So I'm running over the game at the time of Vader's replace. I'll give you guys one guess as to which two players were tied for Today's lynch when he rolled in.

Let me explain myself. Most of my suspicion falls on Maruchan. He seems to want to get one of the IC's lynched.

We've already established that he clearly didn't read the game very well, to get Maruchan, who wasn't even in the game at the beginning, and MuffinMan confused. This adds to the notion that he just jumped in and opportunistically tacked his vote onto whoever might be an easy lynch.

What I meant by Oversoul is that he was my next in line for suspicion, but I'm not too sure anymore that he is scum.

Okay. So Oversoul (potential lynchee #2, as I said) was his second scum candidate in his first post. By his second post, 7 realtime posts (as in everyone's posts) later, he changed his tune on Oversoul. Okay. Oversoul had posted twice between Vader's first and second posts, and they were "..." and "Everyone hates the Toast." What on earth could he have done to change Vader's mind?

In his post #3, Vader votes Maruchan. In Vader's mind because of the two reasons he'd listed in his second post:

Most of my suspicion falls on Maruchan. He seems to want to get one of the IC's lynched. He also seemed really desperate about clarifying why he wanted to know about quick topics, with the browser history and all.

The first point we know is null because it wasn't even Maru. The second comes down to gut more than anything else. It's at best a very weak vote.

Oh, that is my mistake, sorry. I guess that wasn't Maruchan was it? That kills my only lead against him

So by his #4, Vader realizes that he's made a mistake, and that his lead is actually on another player. Fair enough. Did anyone else notice that after he learns it wasn't one of the two main wagons that had "gone after the IC," or whatever, he completely dropped it? The Townie thing to do would have been to go after MuffinMan, if that's how he felt.

I looked back and me voting would only put hMaruchan at L-2. Is this a mistake on your part or a ploy to save your fellow scum? Just throwing out possibilities

This was bad all around, but I don't want to beat a dead horse.

His #6 was just him repeating the suspicion on me in his #5.

@Packbat I only voted because I read earlier in the thread somewhere that someone said that you should get your vote out now on your most suspicious player.

He only voted because Packbat said to, what? Sheepie.

Nothing really in #8 except a bit of sucking up.

His #9 and #10 were agreeing with Maru on Oversoul, but not really offering any content of his own.

I can see that most of his stuff has been kinda fluff, no real contribution.

Pot and kettle and black. After that he says he agrees with MuffinMan's stance on Oversoul, without offering anything of his own on the matter. The bit on Maru's browser history being means to hide things is silly and worded seriously enough to make me thing of faux scumhunting.

Ok, ok, I'll accept the the second browser history was a joke, and that clears up Maruchan for me. I'm still leaning towards Oversoul for the same reasons Muffinman has posted.

That's all it took to clear him? Also, again with the MuffinMan thing. Whether MuffinMan is scum or town, I think there was definitely a bit of buddying going on there. MuffinMan has clearly done a significant amount of scumhunting in this game, so I find it intriguing that Vader, who has yet to do any real work of his own, clings so to MuffinMan.

@Oversoul I guess I automatically assumed that Muffinman was right

That's... a good idea in a game where you don't know who your teammates are... Unless you

do

know who they are.

I was basing my piggybacking on his post about inactivity and those like it

So... He admits to piggybacking on MuffinMan's vote.

#14 was completely nil on response to Packbat's vote.

#15 was talking to Oversoul about chat mafia.

#16 was more about chat mafia... that doesn't progress this game of forum mafia at all. A little deviation is okay, but too much makes me nervous, especially this close to deadline.

#17 was a very long explanation of why he hasn't contributed to the game, yadda yadda. Doesn't hunt, that's really all I need from that post.

#18 on Oversoul was just plain bad. He is really gunning for Oversoul, but really failing.

#19 was apology and goodbye.

Sooo... Yeah, I'm gonna
VOTE: Vader, L-1
for non-contribution, forced attempts at scumhunting, and all scummy things listed above.
Even if I wasn't as convinced he is scum as I am, I think his flip would be most enlightening D2 (there are some connections to MuffinMan and Oversoul I'd like to explore), and we're close enough to deadline.

Swing, scummie.

[Panacea]

Nah, I know buddying can be either scum or town. That's why I said "whether scum or town," I think there is buddying going on. At this point I think he's scum buddying town MuffinMan in hopes that the latter won't target him, or call him on the buddying. This position comes from my town read on MuffinMan so far. It's really not a good idea to scope out relationships until there is a confirmed role (this happens in death).

[Panacea]

Wait, even if we do get a replacement who falsely claims a PR, wouldn't it be wiser for the real PR to stay hidden? It's only N1, after all.

[Panacea]

So a PR should only counterclaim if there's time to lynch someone else, yes? Or if it looks like attention will shift from who they know to be the confirmed scum?

[Panacea]

At the risk of Vadering MuffinMan, this ^^^ is exactly how I view it.

[Panacea]

Going to work at the moment, but a few things before I do:

1) Um. Obviously I'll not be pursuing the beforementioned Vader-MuffinMan scumteam. :/

2) Packbat is possibly correct. To that end as well, we are all here because we did not pose a direct threat to scum. Whether because we didn't sniff them out at all, or because we did but not enough to spook them. Presumably, MuffinMan did.

3) Packbat is either underestimating scum, or very clever town. I'll say more on that later.

I need to reread the game knowing MuffinMan's alignment after work.

[Panacea]

Also, it takes

FOUR

to lynch now, not five.

[Panacea]

I think I will keep my vote off of everyone for now, so as to stop any bad-vibes towards myself by a wrongly placed vote.

You have a distinct proclivity for worrying about what we think of you, Herr Chan.

Thats easy to do as town, but I might keep an eye out on you for a bit, because you'd think most townies suspect at least 1 of the mafia and are correct in their suspicions.

That's even worse than this argument you had Yesterday about scum being in the three experienced players, for obvious reasons. Please refer to Packbat's following post, because it answers this perfectly.

2) Packbat is possibly correct. To that end as well, we are all here because we did not pose a direct threat to scum. Whether because we didn't sniff them out at all, or because we did but not enough to spook them. Presumably, MuffinMan did.

Small correction, We are all here because we didn't pose a direct threat to scum,

OR

are scum. Just a small little addition I felt needed to be added.

Agreed.

I'll say more on that later.

I look forward to learning what you are implying here.

I'm going to have to say later-er. I have a theory about Packbat that requires a little more time to test.

Hey, lurker Panacea

Reading, sorry.

So Panacea could be just waiting till

he

she

finds something

he

she

wants to comment on, since most of the recent long posts haven't involved

him

her

, or

he

she

could be scum staying out of the fray to make sure

he

she

doesn't set off anymore scumdars.

[Panacea]

^^^

and

...wow, Oversoul/Maruchan scumteam, anyone?

Not right now. NumberQ/Maruchan, maybe. But we really shouldn't look for scumteams until we have a confirmed scummie, right? At this point I wouldn't be too objected to a NumberQ lynch closer to deadline, but not until after a claim. This living PR business needs to be resolved.

@Packbat: We know scum can be deceitful. Do you think deceit can be pro-Town?

[Panacea]

I probably refresh this page 12 hours out of the day more often that anyone else does during thsoe twelve hours, and I have seen just about every player in here lurk once or twice at least.

I keep this thread open on my iPhone at all times, by the way.

But as I have not ruled out either of those options yet, I think I will keep my vote off of everyone for now, so as to stop any bad-vibes towards myself by a wrongly placed vote.

Maruchan has a habit of tiptoeing around our opinions. I just finished an intensive iso-- 100... posts...-- that attest to that.

quick and hasty causes reactions to votes.

...

VOTE: Oversoul.

Wait, you're voting Oversoul to placate Packbat's suspicions?

@Panacea, your asking numberQ to claim before you wouldn't mind a lynch on him, I see as a bit pointless. if he DOES claim PR then we have to debate over his being alive being because he is lying or because it was a WIFOM, and if he claims blue. that gets us no closer to deciding if it is a lie or not either.

... No. If he does claim PR and he's scum, the other real remaining PR calls him on it and we have confirmed scum. If he claims PR and no one counterclaims, we don't lynch him and spend the rest of the Day with a confirmed Townie and narrow down our suspect pool, 2 of 6 instead of 2 of 7. If he claims Vanilla, we lynch him regardless. Right now, he and Maruchan are my top suspects, so, again, not overly opposed to a NumberQ lynch at the moment because I don't see him not claiming PR. However, given my record so far this game, I'll not be voting him just yet.

[Panacea]

Oh! Last thing before I sleep! Sorry for the onslaught tonight; I've noticed that I get post-happy the first day after Night ends, lol.

Running that never-ending iso reminded me that we need more Smallpeoples and the luscious Mr. Aussielicious (aka Oman) Today. Like, seriously.

Good night, all!

[Panacea]

Maruchan:

The 2of4 setup is a test game format we’re trying out in Newbie games to get around balance issues with the F11 setup. To prevent the development of game-breaking strategies, these Newbie Games are Semi-Open, wherein the actual game setup is randomly chosen as detailed below:

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia RoleCop
5 Vanilla Townies
2 of the following (no duplicates possible): (Cop 25%, Doctor 25%, Jailkeeper 25%, Vanilla Townie 25%)

[Panacea]

2 of the

following

(no duplicates possible): (Cop 25%, Doctor 25%, Jailkeeper 25%, Vanilla Townie 25%)

[Panacea]

Oh!! OH!! I was definitely reading that all wrong! Sorry. Maruchan, you were right, I was wrong. Sorry!

[Panacea]

and @ your my comment being the textbook definition of WIFOM, usually WIFOM works better when somebody ELSE suggests it, me pushing for my own WIFOM, makes for a shitty WIFOM

This is by definition WIFOM.

The way I saw it, someone said "oh, you shouldn't do that" and you said "okay. see, I'm doing what this town-looking fellow is doing, I'm town" and unvoted me.

I agree with this.

I was keeping an eye on Panacea over others because of the fact that not even ONE of her FoS's was scum.

I've already mentioned this, but this is very bad logic, even worse than "One of our experienced players must be scum," and reminiscent of false scumhunting.

So... Maruchan's #497 is pretty full of bad logic, even if he did catch my PR miscount earlier. But seriously, this:

On that note, you al lseem to think I am trying to defend oversoul, which in no case am I trying to do. I am trying to defend myself by saying if I WAS with oversoul, I wouldn't do what happened. On that note, in order to cement this in your minds I feel I have to VOTE: Oversoul. Maybe then you guys will stop accusing me of being a scumteam with him.

feels off to me... If not bussy, then too... something. Over the top? The only thing keeping my vote off him right now is a lack of Oman and Small. And I'm losing patience. So. I don't use the "Ctrl+f" trick myself, but just in case anyone else does:

Packbat: Again, how do you feel about an Oversoul lynch?

Smallpeoples: How do you feel about an Oversoul lynch?

NumberQ: How do you feel about an Oversoul lynch?

Maruchan: How do you feel about an Oversoul lynch?

Oman: How do you feel about an Oversoul lynch?

Oversoul: How do you feel about the possibility that you're town and the intended victim of a WIFOM nightkill?

I've already hinted at how I feel, but I'd be glad to go into more detail once everyone answers. I'm still trying to test something, but no one's cooperating.

Packbat, did you every reread D1 after MuffinMan's flip?

[Panacea]

SO me and him are scummy,

in most of the towns eyes

because of the night kill+my defending him, and yet somehow I am more scummy than him?...

...What did you mean by the bolded..?

[Panacea]

you, packbat, and numberq, in all your eyes (or so it seems), he is scummiest do to the nightkill, and I am scummy for trying to show that it isn't necessarily him right off the bat.

I never said I wanted an Oversoul lynch. But now that you've mentioned it, would you please answer the question posed to you in #500?

I was typing in a hurry and didn't feel like second guessing every single word I typed to make sure someone didn't want to pick at it and determine it meant I am scum.

I'm doing what my role PM says to do...

[Panacea]

Maruchan, I think you have daddy issues.

(OMG, I'm TOTALLY kidding.)

But seriously, I think you're in the midst of a culture-shock... Games on this site don't generally work if you try to do the optimistic "let's all work together!" thing.In theory it sounds nice, but you have to remember that you have two teams here, and one of those teams only wins by pretending to be the members of the other. I'll certainly be willing to hear you out, though, if you have some chat-mafia tactics to bring over that would actually work the optimistic way.

[Panacea]

Add to that that I personally don't see it working.

[Panacea]

Right this second? I don't want ANYBODY lynched, How do I feel about an oversoul lynch? I say its a bad idea to want to lynch anyone without first discussing as a town what the night action implicates, and what it could implicate, and reasons why we think certain implications are unlikely.

I'd prefer for us all to PRETEND there are no scum, and learn to work together for 5 minutes bettering the town as a whole, rather than spend all of our time discussing who we DON'T trust. Seems pointless to me.

So to directly answer the question, in the simplest terms: I am opposed. NOT because I am opposed to an Oversoul lynch in particular, I am just opposed to any lynch until we can all learn to discuss without being at each others throats. Once we discuss, and we analyze and we determine that Oversoul being scum is one of the most likely implications from last night, I would be all for an Oversoul lynch though.

Okay. Then how do you feel about an Oversoul lynch

based on the argument that he was MuffinMan's main suspect"

[Panacea]

I didn't say Town can't be wrong. At all. I'm just trying to figure out who feels what about your wagon, because there is a strong possibility that last Night's Kill was a WIFOM Kill.

[Panacea]

Small, could you answer the question to you in #500, please?

Maruchan, how do you want to try this working together thing?

[Panacea]

Opinion: Last night was a WIFOM Kill. It was either scum (including Oversoul) killing Oversoul's main aggressor and thinking they could say it was too obvious, or scum (excluding Oversoul) killing MuffinMan in hopes of framing MuffinMan's main suspect. I personally am leaning toward the latter.

Opinion: Packbat is Town setting Townie-Traps with his Oversoul vote (remember the underestimating scum or clever town comment? I didn't want to give it away.)

Opinion: Packbat's townie trap busted Smallpeoples.

VOTE: Smallpeoples

[Panacea]

That's a great idea. I'm at work at the moment, but I'll do that tonight. Could you answer the RQS questions I asked everyone?

And welcome!

[Panacea]

Stuntman,

We kicked off Day 1 (pg. 1) with a good bout of RVS. After a while, I thought I'd try to incorporate RQS, but MuffinMan's "Let's lynch the IC" random vote pretty much killed the momentum of it, lol. Anyway, MuffinMan's random vote invited an attempt at a wagon from smallpeoples, who placed his vote on Packbat, as well. NumberQ tossed in his vote, as well at the top of pg. 2. This wagon brought a lot of interesting conversation about lynching IC's, IIoA, and the statistical likelihood of scum in the IC/SE triad.

This is where the Val/MuffinMan conflict began. By pg. 6, the MuffinMan/Oversoul tension was in full swing. At the top of pg. 6 is where Oversoul first hints at PR's. By pg. 8, Maruchan had come into the game and raised all sorts of alarms by voting NumberQ, one of the main wagons at the time, and then unvoting him when he was confronted. After a while, Vader replaced in and fell into the main suspect position previously occupied by Maruchan and his browser history. Vader continues do channel the scum gods for a while longer before asking to replace out. We couldn't get a replacement in time for deadline, and he was already at L-1, so MuffinMan drove the hammer*, and we entered into D2.

It didn't take long for the suspicion to fall on MuffinMan's main suspect, Oversoul. Two schools of thought emerged in relation to Last Night: that MuffinMan was killed by a scumteam including Oversoul because he was such a threat; and that MuffinMan's death was rooted in WIFOM, and that a scumteam excluding Oversoul chose MuffinMan to fram Oversoul. Packbat came in leaning toward the former, and he did it so abruptly that I thought he was trying to see if anyone followed his lead (though I was apparently mistaken). Lo and behold, smallpeoples jumped that wagon without a whole lot to back his vote, and this earned him my own vote. Packbat agreed and gave cause, and now we are here.

* I hadn't caught this earlier, but there has to be a reason scum picked MuffinMan. The D1 hammerer almost always catches the first suspicion D2, and frequently ends up being the D2 lynch. MuffinMan, confirmed town, would have been a good mislynch candidate for Tonight. I'm not sure if I've communicated this well enough tonight, but I'm really tired.

Until tomorrow!

[Panacea]

I think we're probably in veritable Limbo while we await Stuntman's catchup, so I don't feel too bad asking,

Packbat, your writing for school. Are you a law student, perchance?

[Panacea]

I keep trying to post, but I'm really too sleepy to be productive at the moment. I'm really sorry. I promise I'll post in the morning before work.

Stuntman, any views yet?

[Panacea]

Ellf, if you happen to be following along, happy birthday!

My thoughts on Smallpeoples: His lurking is an inarguable point. We have 583 (584 now) posts in this game, and 35 of them are from Smallpeoples. As if this wasn't enough,

the Mod

has 52. So, 532 game-related posts. Someone check my math, but that means that Smallpeoples's contribution accounts for about 6.58% of the game's posts?

A little hard to interpret a person who has 5 posts.

Which is understandable, except this was Smallpeoples's 9th post. The 117th post in the game. One was an EBWOP, one was a joke with the Mod, one was asking Packbat why he included so many links, one was an apology for being out.

Of those 35 posts, 7 contain apologies for not posting enough, from power outages to being grounded, to being admittedly too lazy to check while multiple of his games was in Night Of those 35 posts, only 1 contained an officially-given V/La.

Add to that the Oversoul bandwagon-hopping despite claiming to have a null read pretty much as he placed the vote and after we've mentioned the Lylo-consequences if we mislynch Today, and I'm very happy with my vote.

How's it coming, Stuntman? Can you give us anything to work with while you continue your readthrough?

[Panacea]

Lol! I like the half-sentence break-and-run. All I can say for certain is that you're at least 50% wrong, but I'll let you finish.

Anyway, while you're posting, what do you think of your predecessors' play, Stuntman?

[Panacea]

I do, yes. Are you... coaching Small, Stuntman? And if you think he's the ideal lynch, then why are you claiming that he's town?

This post feels inconsistent.

[Panacea]

Also, an SE did die last night, so that IC/SE argument is thin. Packbat has been my strongest Town lead all game, and except for the quick D2 Oversoul vote, he hasn't done anything to sway that. I'm definitely more inclined to agree with him than, say, Small or Maruchan.

[Panacea]

I'm going to meta Packbat in the next day or so. I'll report back. When I do, I'll include a list like Maruchan's, because I think it's a good idea at this point. I'm interested in where Small's suspicion lies.

[Panacea]

Newbie 1027 says Packbat is town.

As an aside, Packbat, I like how you defended Andrew in that game when one of the players (I forget which) was being directly insulting. Sucks that you lost that one.

I'll do more after I've slept.

[Panacea]

You do realize it hadn't even been a full 6.5 hours since you first asked Maruchan for his arguments, right?

[Panacea]

UGH!!!! I've been working on this post for an hour through a pounding headache, and my computer just restarted for an update!!!!!! I'll try again...

[Panacea]

So, I can't feel my left hand and I have green and red poka-dots in front of my eyes (yaaay, migraines!), so please forgive any typos, or if I have to pull a Stuntman and stop mid-sentence.

I am to lazy to read through an entire past game, how does that "say" Packbat is town exactly?

Just go and iso him in that game, then. It's like a mini-meta. Anyway, if you look at his play in that game, it's almost exactly as it is here, and his role there was Vanilla. Take this with a grain of salt, though, because I've only combed through his Town games so far; scum games are for in the morning.

i just really want to hear more from smallpeoples before we jump to conclusions.

Oh? But you've been on a Packacea soapbox since you entered this scene.

futhermore they are IC and SE, and they havent died yet. [/quote="Stuntman"] no one can be "that" town, IC/SE,

Again, this argument is deplorable. An SE DID die last night. What if I'd died last night and MuffinMan had lived? We'd still both have been Town, either way, and one of the three most experienced players still died. Let me know if I need to explain that better.

i still think pan/pac are scum team. no one can be "that" town, IC/SE

Further shallow arguments. Five players

can

be that town, because five of us

are

that town. This is... what it is.

and simultaneously agree that just because someone (smallpeoples) is lurky and not doing (as the opposite of not doing) scummy actions.

Seriously?? We're a scum team because we're both on the wagon of an incredibly scummy player? Because we agree that he

is

scummy? And where is this "not doing anything scummy," thing coming from? Both of us have made solid cases against Smallpeoples, and for the record, lurking and not doing anything (as opposed to not doing, whatever on earth that even means)

is

scummy.

you have no full evidence that small is scum

Have you caught up yet? Panacea: this post. Packbat: this post, this post, this post

furthermore you two also avoid discussion around this topic. this only confirms my suspicions.

What is this I don't even..!

Panacea: this post, and did you think I decided to wade through this meta on my towniest read for

fun?

Packbat: this post.

Scum

1) Smallpeoples: Case presented. I can't do anything else until he actually, y'know, posts again.
2) Stuntman: Only reason he's not higher is because I have less from his slot than I do from Smallpeoples. Bad logic, shallow arguments, and misrepresentation.
3) Maruchan: He's been number 1 or number 2 (not to be confused with numberQ ) since he replaced in, but he's been beat out by Stuntman as of late. I think most of my scum read on him might have been a culture thing? Regardless, he's about neutral by this point.

Town

1) Oversoul: Needs to post more. I have a relative town read on him. I personally think MuffinMan was a WIFOM Kill. I can not think of any way to support that, though, other than gut. It just feels too easy to blame Oversoul.
2) NumberQ: Leaning Town. Reactions seem appropriate to a Townie.
3) Packbat: Has felt Townie to me all game. Only doubt was quick Oversoul vote. Completed meta should reveal more.

[Panacea]

@ Mod:

Could you please prod Smallpeoples? It's been over 100 hours since his last post.

[Panacea]

I have a hard time settling in because i need experience in a game to feel better suited in my play. i wasnt their the first 20 pages of the game, therefore those pages seem odd to me, difficult to interpret because i cannot capture the mood one does so in present tense. its like looking at photographs.

AtE not working.

i decided to get reactions and responses from two players. smallpeoples, someone who i fully beleived to be as scum (just by de facto being lurking, and

now that ive looked at them

Pac/Pans reasons against him)

"

Now

" that you've looked at them? As in, you didn't at the time they were presented? As in, you ignored them?

so far, i liked pacs responses, although low in number.

No, you didn't. You falsely said he was ignoring you.

Know what I'm getting from that entire post? Your terrible case on Packbat and me as a scumteam fell through. Know how I got that? Because for a player who, again, falsely claimed that both of us were ignoring you, you neglected my entire post against you. You're not getting a following on your Packbat wagon, so you're abandoning it in favor of the strongest wagon, the lowest hanging fruit, and trying to make it seem like you were on board all along. How convenient that it happened that your vote would only put him at L-2, right? I'm sure your abrupt switch to put Smallpeoples at L-2 had nothing to do with Oversoul and Maruchan both recently saying that they'd be on board for lynching him soon. You had to make a move soon so you wouldn't be the hammer, didn't you?

TOWN DO NOT QUICKHAMMER. LET SCUM DO THAT

.

And then you set it up both so that no one, town or scum, is going to want to hammer, and so that whoever does gets the brunt of it Tomorrow. This is

not

townie to me.

[Panacea]

did you forget to read the huge wall of text as well?

Yeah, I just copied random parts to stream into a reasoned argument.

im not going to take this seriously unless you acknowledge that was a different stuntman saying those things

It absolutely was not. Unless you have Dissociative Identity Disorder, or are an unclaimed Hydra, everything you've said has come from your slot, your role. You can't just say "Oh, I was a different player four posts ago! Now everything I said before is null and void!"

pac understood what i did, why cant you?

I do understand. I understand that you've just admitted to fake casebuilding since you came in. I understand completely what you're

saying.

I just don't believe a word of it. I've wanted a Smalls lynch for too long with no response from him to drop the vote and go after you, but make no mistake that I intend to if I get to D3.

and that TOWN DO NOT thing, well imo it kind of foolproof. town wont vote town, and scum wont vote scum.

At least 3 Town voted Vader Yesterday. Scum bus. Cognitive dissonance, Stuntman. Town will vote town because they're the only ones who don't know the role of who they're voting. Scum will vote scum to bus their buddies for townie points. This "foolproof" idea of yours is false.

pac agrees with me, he sees its town. so i guess your calling him scum too then.

Contrary to everything you or your alternate personality have said since you stepped into this game (oh, sorry, am I not allowed to talk about that anymore because that wasn't you?), Packbat and I are not attached at the proverbial hip. I don't care if he "agrees with" you. I'm calling your

actions

scummy, your manipulation of the system so that the wagon stalls, not Packbat's agreement.

[Panacea]

Oh... Kay... I feel a bit like I just got cheated out of something... I really wanted Smalls interaction so town could buddy-hunt Tomorrow...

I also wanted more Stuntman... On the bright side, I doubt Tomorrow will be Lylo, but I guess we'll see soon.

Well, f.

[Panacea]

... I voted Small's because I think he's scum.

Of course

I doubt Tomorrow will be Lylo.

[Panacea]

Meaning I think we'll be 5 players, 1 scum, not 5 and 2.

[Panacea]

Twilight: let's use it. We know MuffinMan was Town. We know Vader was, too. Soon we'll know Smalls's role, too. Use the Night to re-read, given their alignments.

What do we know about this wagon? It was for the most part quick. It was easy, because scum didn't have to deal with Smalls's defense. Who have we been thinking looks Town, and do they still?

[Panacea]

That's true. Do you think this could have anything to do with his lack of activity, though? I still have a townie feel of him, but I wouldn't use those reasons to back it, simply because of the lack of input.

[Panacea]

I can see your point. It would be quite a gambit on the part of a scum-NumberQ.

Guys, we can still talk in Twilight..! Come on..!

[Panacea]

LOL. Oversoul, I would laugh so hard if that happened. Naturally as the one who suggested it, you'd be under the spotlight going into D3, before we had a WIFOM discussion again.

[Panacea]

But all of the weak cases, bad logic, backtracking and excessive AtE are not. Let's say he is telling the truth about all of this "ruse" business. You don't think there's anything suspicious about the

timing

of his vote change?

[Panacea]

NumberQ, I see you! Get a word in before Twilight ends?

[Panacea]

Oooh, I like this flavor so much! I am confused, though, was Packbat the protagonist all along?

Great. Everyone be very careful with your votes. FoS if you have to.

Working in another game at the moment; be back later.

[Panacea]

Let's skip right to business. Maruchan, explain your Smalls vote, please? Too late to do a full confirmed-Town read for Packbat, though this late in the game, I'm not sure how much it matters anyway. Will do tomorrow.

NumberQ and Oversoul, given your respective V/LA's and absences, I'd personally like a lot of analysis on your perspective of the end of D2. Thank you.

[Panacea]

Stuntman, NumberQ, where are you?

Awaiting Maruchan's post.

[Panacea]

Yes, though I'm kind of considering not offering anything at all until NumberQ and Oversoul have posted.

[Panacea]

VOTE: STUNTMAN!!!!

[Panacea]

Oh my goodness, Maruchan, you must have been ready to track track me down and shove a laptop in my face, LOL!!

Umm.... So... Yeah...

Sorry... I love you all... I always feel so terribly guilty as scum. :/ But you all played beautifully!! This game had excellent flavor.

[Panacea]

I'll have more later, but first, Oversoul and NumberQ were obvtown for me (but so were 7 of you. ). They just needed confidence.

Maruchan and I didn't get to talk N0, so his QT comment had me gunning for a bus, honestly, lol. Did anyone notice I chilled out on him when that died?

I buddied Packbat pretty hard because I intended to get lynched and keep the Rolecop alive. ^^* Plus I really like Packbat's play.

The nail in Town's coffin was Stuntman's ploy, honestly. I jumped in and made it about lying to influence everyone else's conclusions, but Stuntman would've had a much better run if he hadn't tried that.

More to come- celebrating my sister Goddess_Athena's birthday at the moment.

[Panacea]

Lol, I'm doing the same in 116 degree. Also, I think linking the QT is against the rules, if I'm not mistaken.

We definitely pushed for lynching Vader sans claim. If MuffinMan had survived, I don't think I'd have made it our alive. Nor if Stuntman had come in earlier.

The Oman replace was BRILLIANT. I was impressed.

I'll break down players when I make it back to my PC. Lots of positives.

[Panacea]

Yay, computer time! As I said, though I seem to be better at scum roles than town, I always feel super guilty for lying to people.

Panacea played this game perfectly. It really was, not a single person suspected her and I don't even know if anybody actually even accused or voted her.

Thank you so much!!! That means a lot!

About the hammer: On my way to work around 2:40, I stopped at a red light and checked to see where we were. I had enough time to read Oversoul's post at the top of the page, but then I had to close out and go to work. Apparently poor Maruchan had already seen me on and voted, and I must have closed it right around the same time. Nine hours later, I checked my other game first and bee-bopped around Facebook before checking this one. I would never have imagined we'd voted so early from the start of Lylo, so I wasn't preoccupied with checking it. ^^*

btw how did you feel when i paired you with pac as possible scum partners? everyone thought it was real at the time, so how did you feel inside when this replace struts in and suddenly suspects you as scum?

That's

exactly

how I felt! I was unnecessarily edgy because if you got people to really looking, I knew I'd be found out. I had to go into crazy discredit-overdrive to kill your townie points, to the point of twisting myself into a delicate position: I had to make a huge deal out of your Pac/Pan gambit thing

after

being so positive about Packbat doing that very thing when I thought he was trying to trap Smallpeoples. The same thing. I was so sure I was going to get myself killed with that, lol.

You magnificent bastard, you had me fooled to the end. Superb scum play - and the kills were perfect from a WIFOM perspective, too. You played straight to the "kill experienced players first" meme, despite being the most experienced.

Yeah, I forget who suggested Oversoul being a good setup.

The D1 flake from the cop after being replaced was meh.

I KNOW! He was the only player I was pretty certain

wasn't

a PR! It was wonderful luck. It was also in my best interest to get him lynched quickly so we could start the Night.

I edited the qt out of my browser history both times.

... It never even crossed my mind that it'd be in there. XD

Lol, reading back over the QT, we had a lot of random chatter. XD

Breakdowns will be the next post:

[Panacea]

Robocopter: I really liked this flavor, and the end was cleverly twisted. I repeat what I said in the QT, with the addition that you might look into scifi/horror writing.

Maruchan: Loved this game. Your contribution was great. We made a great team in that you pulled all of the ballsy moves I was afraid to, lol, and I tried my best to refocus people onto others and distract them from those moves. It was very functional.

Packbat: You were awesome. You were excellent at moving the game forward and keeping everyone motivated. When I'm Town, that's what's most important to me. I honestly learned a few things from your constant supply of good tips and tricks. I'm trying to learn to mod: you should do a mod help tutorial.

zMuffinMan: You were a threat from your first post because you never cared about how you appeared to town. As I've learned from Rayfrost, that is the most dangerous sort of townie.

Smallpeoples: Small actually had a lot of potential early on. I think as time went by you stopped caring. I'm sorry to have made such a trumped-up case against you. We just needed a lynch, and you were the least-contributing player.

Oversoul: I really, really liked you. I felt so horrible setting you up for suspicion by killing zMuffinMan that I tried to make D2 as easy on you as possible. You mentioned early on that you got called out a lot for your cases being weak. You brought up some very good points. All I have to say is that I hope you'll try to keep up the faith in town in future; you guys were by no means done when the cop died.

NumberQ: I was pretty darn sure that you were a PR. You were very obvtown to me, and I agree with Packbat on your being the player who's come the furthest.

Stuntman: When you first came in, I thought MuffinMan had been reincarnated or something, lol! You were good. I do have to say that while I blew your false scumhunting thing out of proportion, you could have packaged it to be a little more pro-town. I do know what you were doing and it did make sense, but I agree with Robo in that your presentation was scummy, and therefor easily made to appear scummier.

Thank you guys for an incredible game. I had a lot of fun, and it was a great return to MafiaScum for me. I definitely hope to see all of you around, and hopefully on the same team next time!