Newbie 1122 (Game Over|Scum Win)

[Oversoul]

Vote: zMuffinMan

[Oversoul]

zMuffinMan was the first to vote for Packbat. Judging by his join date, he is not a complete newbie, and would realize the benefits to having an IC and not immediately lynching them. This seems unhelpful to the town. In his next post he mentions IIoA and tries to put more suspicion on Packbat, saying that he's spending too much time posting information to the newbies, and says that it's not a problem for the newbies in the same breath. Again, seems unhelpful for town.

What are the benefits do not 'immediately' lynching the IC? Do you think there are benefits to 'immediately' lynching someone else? Do you think Packbat was in danger of being 'immediately' lynched?

And, er, not even sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your post. What was unhelpful for town, exactly?

The main benefit of not immediately lynching the IC is keeping around an experienced player until they show a tell one way or the other. You voted before that happened, saying that the first step to winning was killing the IC.

No, there are no benefits to immediately lynching somebody else. My point is that it is especially not beneficial to immediately lynch the most experienced player.

Packbat got to L-2 barely into page two. An immediate lynch seemed like a possibility.

I am saying that wanting to lynch an experienced player at the beginning of the game when he hasn't shown any tells one way or the other is unhelpful for the town. You also accused Packbat of IIoA, mentioning that while it's not really a problem in this game because of the newbies, it's a bad idea. So is it good for this game, or bad? You contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

Please explain how what you've done so far is helpful for a newbie town, and not as unhelpful as I think it is.

I pretty much agree with this statement. For once, I actually feel comfortable with my rvs vote. lol.

Anyway, I wanted to point something out that I feel is going to be inherent in most, if not all Newbie Games. One (or more) of the more experienced players is likely going to be a mafia member. It makes no sense to have the blind lead the blind without any sort of direction, unless the mod wants to participate in the Mafia Quick Topic (which I think is disallowed). For now, I have put my field of suspicion on the three experienced players, Packbat, zMuffinMan, and Pancea.

However, I truly do feel that zMuffinMan a scummy player this game. Immediately recognizing the strength the newbie town has in Packbat as an IC and casually trying to play his lynch for something greater.

Muffin's post here:

zMuffinMan was the first to vote for Packbat. Judging by his join date, he is not a complete newbie, and would realize the benefits to having an IC and not immediately lynching them. This seems unhelpful to the town. In his next post he mentions IIoA and tries to put more suspicion on Packbat, saying that he's spending too much time posting information to the newbies, and says that it's not a problem for the newbies in the same breath. Again, seems unhelpful for town.

What are the benefits do not 'immediately' lynching the IC? Do you think there are benefits to 'immediately' lynching someone else? Do you think Packbat was in danger of being 'immediately' lynched?

And, er, not even sure what you're trying to say with the rest of your post. What was unhelpful for town, exactly?

@numberQ, small,

Anything to add?

Just an unvote, and that's it?

What was the point in voting for Packbat in the first place?

Seems particularly scummy when he questions the logic of not immediately lynching the IC when this is clearly a learning game. I think he is a little hotheaded with this post and has forsaken the notion of teaching newbies, like myself, the mechanics of this game and instead is pursuing a win. However, he could be one of those teachers that teaches you by throwing you into the deep end. Also, numberQ and smallpeoples's reactions to the L-2 vote of Packbat indicate nervousness and seem legitimately scared about losing the IC. For all intents and purposes, the IC in a newbie game *is* a power role.

But I did find NumberQ's reasoning a little... flimsy.

I guess that's what I get for not looking at the rest of the posts very carefully. I wasn't aware that I was putting him at L-2, which seems kind of drastic for this early in the day. In my defense, I was kind of hurting for time irl and I wanted to get a post up so it didn't seem suspicious that I wasn't posting. The "senseless" thing was more a joke than anything.

Why do you care if you seem somewhat lurky and suspicious this early in the game? Everyone is bound to look suspicious at one point or another and your post seems overly cautious, which is usually a trait that Mafia members display.

Also, a few of you have alluded to a scum hunting technique (not really a technique, but I don't really know what to call it) called cognitive dissonance. I am fairly new myself, but someone from another game I am in explained cognitive dissonance pretty well. Basically, the fact that the mafia members know who is and isn't scum will seep into their posts subconsciously and townies should therefore be on the look out for players that are seemingly absent from suspicion from each other.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, quick comment. In the last game I was in, initially (before one of the mafia dropped out) the scum were made up entirely of newbies. Assuming that one or more of the experienced players is inherently scum is... not really the best. Roles are assigned by RNG. We have three officially experienced here, so there is a 33% chance that one of them is scum. There is no guarantee that two of them are.

I won't rule out that possibility, but until one of them does something scummy, I have no reason to vote for them.

Hmm. I did not know that. Thank you for pointing that out, though. Although, I do find that rather odd they would allow an all newbie scum team.

Also, Panacea, my meta is lurky. I am an active reader, but I seldom post. It is just my habit. You can see my activity in other games is basically the same. When I do post I normally get yelled at for being stupid and nooby so I save myself from the ridicule. I guess. I may as well be screwing myself in the end though... if I don't speak up now, how will I ever be able to get better. :\ lose lose lol

[Oversoul]

Hope your thesis goes well, Ellf. It is a shame we won't be able to play with each other at the moment, maybe in the future.

[Oversoul]

Why do you care if you seem somewhat lurky and suspicious this early in the game? Everyone is bound to look suspicious at one point or another and your post seems overly cautious, which is usually a trait that Mafia members display.

I was defending myself. Sorry if it seemed too cautious to you, but I was trying to cover all the accusations that were made against me.

Scum is trying to look like Town, y'know, just like everyone else. I don't see how caution is a Mafia-only thing.

Scumslip? Or just a very poor choice of words?

No one made any accusations against you at that point. You preemptively defended yourself. That is cautious.

Why would town be

trying

to look town? All they have to do is play the game normally and defend themselves when the occasion presents itself. This post didn't help your case, in my opinion.

[Oversoul]

Scumslip? Or just a very poor choice of words?

No one made any accusations against you at that point. You preemptively defended yourself. That is cautious.

Why would town be

trying

to look town? All they have to do is play the game normally and defend themselves when the occasion presents itself. This post didn't help your case, in my opinion.

Different interpretations of the word "trying", I guess. You're still trying to look town even if you are town, imo, because almost no one else knows you're town. You aren't trying to look like scum (unless you are for some reason...), so it stands to reason that you're trying to look town. But it's just semantics, and using that as a point against me would make for a pretty weak argument. I also still don't see how being cautious is a bad thing. I defended myself from the arguments made against me. How is that preemptive at all? I'll admit using "accusations" was a bad choice of words, though.

Ya. I am going to have to call you out on that.

Yay, we begin. Hi everyone, I'm Ellf, and this is my second game on this site. Let me begin by saying that I

really

dislike RVS when I don't know who I'm playing with. Still, I figure I'll kick it off with the following:

VOTE: numberQ

Why? Because that name just doesn't make sense to me.

Right now we're in RVS, as Ellf said; one of the things I like to do in this stage is to start a

bandwagon

by voting for someone with one or more votes already on them. It's not often a good idea to put too many votes on one player early, just because it's important to get a feel for everyone in the player list before the end of the day, but votes tend not to have much effect if there isn't the threat of a lynch behind them.

VOTE: numberQ

These two people vote you, and then Ellf goes on to say how he wants to see your reaction.

You then post this:

Now, this senseless bandwagon against me is, quite frankly, senseless. Packbat's the IC, so he has more experience than us by definition, so I'm a little wary of him putting the second vote on my bandwagon. I don't want to get into a WIFOM thing (thank you for that term, wiki), but basically I'm thinking he's either pressuring me to see how I react to determine if I'm scum or not, or he knows I'm Townie since he's scum and is trying to get a bandwagon started so I get lynched. I think that's a healthy amount of suspicion to have for Mafia, and since this is RVS anyway, I'll put a vote on him.

VOTE: Packbat

Giving it justification with this post

I guess that's what I get for not looking at the rest of the posts very carefully. I wasn't aware that I was putting him at L-2, which seems kind of drastic for this early in the day. In my defense, I was kind of hurting for time irl and I wanted to get a post up so it didn't seem suspicious that I wasn't posting. The "senseless" thing was more a joke than anything.

To explain the reasoning behind my vote: I wanted to put a vote in for RVS, and instead of actually voting randomly, I voted for someone who put the second vote on me. It wasn't technically random, but because we're so early in the game and because I didn't expect to keep the vote on him (since it's RVS and I only used a weak justification to give some direction to my vote), I voted for him.

UNVOTE: Packbat because of drasticness.

Defending that post with this post:

Why do you care if you seem somewhat lurky and suspicious this early in the game? Everyone is bound to look suspicious at one point or another and your post seems overly cautious, which is usually a trait that Mafia members display.

I was defending myself. Sorry if it seemed too cautious to you, but I was trying to cover all the accusations that were made against me. Scum is trying to look like Town, y'know, just like everyone else. I don't see how caution is a Mafia-only thing.

According to your posts you voted Packbat to avoid suspicion for being lurky. However, you then go on to say that you were defending against accusations that were being made against you with your first original vote on Packbat (#26), when up until that point, only 2 people had voted you in RVS. THAT IS WAY TOO CAUTIOUS.

Either you are scum trying to find a way out of the situation, or you are confusing things.

Unvote: zMuffinMan

I won't vote you until you respond to this post.

[Oversoul]

That is fine, Robo. I don't think there will be much activity site wide seeing as this is a holiday weekend and many people are probably out enjoying themselves with friends and family.

For the record, though, zMuffinMan now only has 1 vote on him.

[Oversoul]

*sigh* I don't feel good, so forgive me if this doesn't make sense

Yay, we begin. Hi everyone, I'm Ellf, and this is my second game on this site. Let me begin by saying that I

really

dislike RVS when I don't know who I'm playing with. Still, I figure I'll kick it off with the following:

VOTE: numberQ

Why? Because that name just doesn't make sense to me.

Right now we're in RVS, as Ellf said; one of the things I like to do in this stage is to start a

bandwagon

by voting for someone with one or more votes already on them. It's not often a good idea to put too many votes on one player early, just because it's important to get a feel for everyone in the player list before the end of the day, but votes tend not to have much effect if there isn't the threat of a lynch behind them.

VOTE: numberQ

Prior to NumberQ's post no one made any sort of accusation against him. Ellf and Packbat voted him in the RVS stage (these 2 quotes above), in which Ellf later commented on wanting to see Number's reaction to his (Ellf's) vote on him (Number).

Number then goes onto post his own "RVS" applying very weak logic to what is supposedly an RVS as you can see in this quote below.

Now, this senseless bandwagon against me is, quite frankly, senseless. Packbat's the IC, so he has more experience than us by definition, so I'm a little wary of him putting the second vote on my bandwagon. I don't want to get into a WIFOM thing (thank you for that term, wiki), but basically I'm thinking he's either pressuring me to see how I react to determine if I'm scum or not, or he knows I'm Townie since he's scum and is trying to get a bandwagon started so I get lynched. I think that's a healthy amount of suspicion to have for Mafia, and since this is RVS anyway, I'll put a vote on him.

VOTE: Packbat

Later, after Packbat had dissected Number's vote, Number was asked for the reasoning behind his post in which he voted Packbat (the quote above).

Number goes on to say that he wanted to get a post up in order to avoid suspicion (when we were still clearly in the RVS stage of the game) as you can see in this quote below.

I guess that's what I get for not looking at the rest of the posts very carefully. I wasn't aware that I was putting him at L-2, which seems kind of drastic for this early in the day. In my defense, I was kind of hurting for time irl and I wanted to get a post up so it didn't seem suspicious that I wasn't posting. The "senseless" thing was more a joke than anything.

To explain the reasoning behind my vote: I wanted to put a vote in for RVS, and instead of actually voting randomly, I voted for someone who put the second vote on me. It wasn't technically random, but because we're so early in the game and because I didn't expect to keep the vote on him (since it's RVS and I only used a weak justification to give some direction to my vote), I voted for him.

UNVOTE: Packbat because of drasticness.

I then ask him why he cares if he seems lurky within the first 2 pages of the game and he replies with "I was trying to cover all the accusations that were made against me". When I read that post (quoted below) I read it as Number was trying to cover all the accusations against him with his original vote on Packbat (post number 26), when there were clearly no accusations made against him, only 2 RVS votes put in place to gauge his reaction. That is why I called him cautious. What I see and deduce from Number's posts is that he was uncomfortable with the wagon that formed on him so early in the game and felt compelled to defend himself from Ellf and Packbat and their "accusations". That is why I called him cautious (there were no accusations made against him at the time of his vote on Packbat).

Why do you care if you seem somewhat lurky and suspicious this early in the game? Everyone is bound to look suspicious at one point or another and your post seems overly cautious, which is usually a trait that Mafia members display.

I was defending myself. Sorry if it seemed too cautious to you, but I was trying to cover all the accusations that were made against me. Scum is trying to look like Town, y'know, just like everyone else. I don't see how caution is a Mafia-only thing.

[Oversoul]

I'll be in soon, y'all! Celabrating Independence Day tonight.

It is the 3rd.

[Oversoul]

Cautiousness itself is not a scumtell, but NumberQ is being too cautious.

I thought he may have been talking about accusations that happened after he posted, but he should have clarified not you, coach.

[Oversoul]

How was that coaching?

Suppose I claimed Packbat said he was scum with Panacea and quoted him saying "I like fruit" to prove this. Would you be coaching me if you told me I am wrong?

Also, in light of this 'clarification', has your opinion about numberQ changed slightly?

Slightly, yes.

[Oversoul]

You know you don't have to quote everything I say, right? Like you didn't even have to quote me then, I would have understood perfectly fine what you were referring to.

How did your opinion on numberQ change? He's only got two votes on him now, after my unvote. Are you still thinking about voting for him?

You play the game the way you want, I'll play the game I want to play. That is ironic considering your response to [redacted] in [redacted]. :\

I like to quote people so that *I* do not get confused. I am usually doing many other things while playing this game and it is not uncommon for me to come back to a post after leaving it for 15 minutes and not remember what I was typing. Plus, if I quote what I am replying to, hopefully people won't get confused (as I was with NumberQ).

He is less scummy than before, but I still feel he is acting cautious because he has something to lose.

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul,

Wait, what do you mean he has something to lose and why does this make him scum? Why couldn't he be cautious town doing it?

Once you think about it, you'll answer those questions.

[Oversoul]

Panacea, that wasn't rolefishing per se. Now I feel that Number is either a power role or mafia member and thus the "feel like he has something to lose" post.

zMuffinMan, my response to Panacea answers your question.

[Oversoul]

However, the fact remains that his first reaction was to OMGUS-vote Packbat in the midst of the Packbat wagon, which rings opportunistic to me.

Care to explain the opportunism here?

...This looks like rolefishing to me...

^ That (in response to Oversoul) is the exact reason I didn't like his "once you think about it, you'll answer those questions" statement. Because it seemed rather obvious to me that there are a variety of reasons someone could have 'something to lose' and being scum is only one of them.

--

I can't even remember where my vote is right now. I think it's still on Packbat but I checked the last votecount and I'm not even in it, so...

Let's fix that.

Unvote

VOTE: Oversoul

Quick reply since I am on my phone and not on my computer.

I said that NumberQ might be scum or a pr based on his cautiousness. zMuffin, seriously make up your god damn mind. I tried to be cryptic so I wouldn't be "so loud" and you guys call me out on it saying if I had something I should say it. You then get mad at me for saying what I thought.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, y'know.

[Oversoul]

numberQ just seems rather innocent to me. I've been in situations like he has, although it has been as mafia once, so I wouldn't call him town completely.
I believe that he might either be trying to survive, trying to hide that he's a power role/mafia, although the latter does seem a little improbable.

Also, to those who are "disappointed" (specifically zMuffinMan) about me outting Number as a possible power role or mafia, I just realized that Smallpeoples actually did it before me. zMuffinMan, why was there no problem with this post when you quoted a part of it? The only thing that you said to him was ewww at the fact that Small for no reason called Number pr/mafia. You've turned this into a witch hunt against me when Small has done, as you pointed out yourself some pretty scummy things.

numberQ just seems rather innocent to me. I've been in situations like he has, although it has been as mafia once, so I wouldn't call him town completely.
I believe that he might either be trying to survive, trying to hide that he's a power role/mafia, although the latter does seem a little improbable.

Small, just because someone was mafia in another game does not mean they are mafia in this game. That was a horrible opinion to state and quite frankly is scummy.

[Oversoul]

You might have a point, Oversoul, if i was voting for you purely because of the PR-or-scum dichotomy thing.

But, no. It's part of the reason, but I also think you're scummy because all of your points about numberQ looked contrived and, given the timing,

it looked like an opportunistic way for scum to push further suspicion on someone.

Also, I just get scum vibes from your posts.

small I'm kind of overlooking now. I probably shouldn't do that. The reason I didn't like his posts wasn't purely because of that PR-or-scum comment. I also didn't like his other comments about numberQ.

Kinda like what is happening now? Scum vibes... seriously. That is basically like saying "a gut feeling".

[Oversoul]

Probably a good time to explain the setup.

There are 2 mafia, 5 townies, and 2 of the following:

doctor, cop, jailer, another townie.

with a 25% chance of each, that means there's only a 50% chance of any particular power role actually being in this game.

So you're 50/50 on there being a doc, 50/50 on there being a cop, 50/50 on there being a jailer.

no lynching to allow the cop to investigate makes no sense for a lot of reasons,

but the most valid reason is that there may not even be a cop in this setup.

--

What about my play did you think was scummy? The confrontation or the erraticism or was there something else?

Is there any other reason for your vote than following in your predecessor's footsteps? Do you have an opinion on numberQ?

Think about it, zMuffinMan.

Also, I find that his vote on NumberQ is very bad. It looks like an opportunity vote and his justification is weak.

Also, Oman and Packbat where are you guys?

[Oversoul]

Incidentally, pop quiz: what tell did I demonstrate in my last post?

Regarding numberQ, I still think he's scummy for roughly the same reasons, and I've not seen anything from another slot that compares. That said, I'm beginning to wonder about the people reiterating suspicions of zMuffinMan - it would not surprise me that scum would want to try to keep that option open.

A town tell? O_o

Hold on in a marathon game. will reply to this in full later, although I feel like you are hinting at Maruchan and I.

[Oversoul]

Maruchan, it is generally better to lynch someone rather than a no lynch as you are effectively taking away a town's "kill" and giving a free one to the scum. Basically you would be starting off the game as if it was night instead of day, something that I am pretty sure you said you didn't like from your chat based games. That seems contradictory.

I see what IIoA is now. Although, this is the only game that I have ever seen someone actually bring that up. O_o

And based off what zMuffin said, wouldn't IIoA be a scum tell? Since you aren't actively looking for scum?

I am beginning to doubt the NumberQ scum and feeling more like Maruchan scum. Your unvote seems like an attempt to backpedal and step out of the spotlight so you don't feel pressured. It doesn't feel like a town thing to do, especially given how many games you've played on your chat based Mafia site.

[Oversoul]

EBWOP: I posted it in the queue thread rather than here.

/facedesk

By the way, what's this "QuickTopic" thing I've been hearing a bunch about in the rules and such? I'm not understanding how the mafia can converse at night, while making it "public" so the mod can monitor it, while also keeping it private so the town members can't see it.

O.o

I don't know whether this is genuine or not, but that seriously muddied the waters in terms of my read on you.

[Oversoul]

@val,

I'm actually rather flabbergasted that a majority see you as town after saying something like that, because I don't understand why.

Because it's much easier for scum to just ignore me and call me town than confront me. I'm a confrontational, argumentative player. I like that sort of stuff. Generally scum want to avoid me like the plague because they're more likely to slip up in heated arguments with me than in logic battles with less argumentative types.

That said, are you going to do anything other than tunnel on me this game? You know, even if I were scum, I'd have a partner. And if I'm town and you're wrong, you're not doing anything to find actual scum. Wanna give your thoughts on the rest of the game?

--

@Oversoul,

Anything to add other than that? No new comments on the game? Not even about numberQ voting for you? Or does it just not bother you that your #1 suspect voted you? Or is he not your #1 suspect now?

It's 1 vote. Am I supposed to be scared? Both you and Maruchan have said plausible reasons why we shouldn't lynch him today. If he might be a PR then we would be giving scum an advantage and they have to waste their nightkill on a possible PR plus we can put our lynch on someone else.

Although, NumberQ not dieing can do a number of things. If he doesn't die, he is either scum or was protected by a doctor. If he does die then either he is a vanilla townie, doctor itself, or another PR.

I am probably not going to put my vote on NumberQ. His reasoning for his vote on me is bad implying that only scum would choose to out a potential PR when in fact, Small peoples did it before me. :\

[Oversoul]

No I don't really have anything to add to the game other than that I don't Maruchan's actions. Personally I feel like an M&M scum team, but I really don't have any (solid) reasons other than "vibes" from your posts, Muffin.

[Oversoul]

M&M as in me and muffinman?

So you think I was bussing my continuous FoS on him for a page and a half till i realized thats just his meta.

Meta is a horrible reason to vote or not to vote someone. And yes M&M as Maruchan and zMuffinMan.

[Oversoul]

"Tells" are overrated. You don't find scum by looking for "tells", there are far better ways to find scum, and "tells" are unreliable.

For example, right now, I'm working off PoE and town reads. To that end, I think at least one of you and Oversoul is scum.

I hate to break it to you, but I'm not scum. Nice try tunneling me.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul is still most likely scum. maruchan is probably town, despite the theatrics. packbat town. panacea prob town. number prob town.

His partner is likely in val/oman. Not too sure what I think of small right now.

OVERSOUL LYNCH, GO.

Any reasons why I am scum? I've made anti-town plays by trying to figure out NumberQ (which Smallpeoples did before me might I remind you). Also, why would I be cryptic about trying to hide it? Oh wait. Because I didn't want to have actually go that far and actually say it...

Stop trying to tunnel me, MuffinMan.

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul,

I don't think you're scum for that, though. Right now, it's partially based on PoE from town reads, it's partially based on the fact you're not even doing anything to find scum - you're not voting, you're not scum hunting, you just pop up every now and then to say hi and tell me to stop 'tunneling' you (this isn't even tunneling, really).

@numberQ,

gut. That's pretty much it. I just don't think he's scum.

So my failed case on NumberQ wasn't scum hunting?

I don't vote every person I think is scummy. I vote when they have made posts that I feel sufficiently indicate that they are scum (and I will make a post showing the posts, or someone else makes a post sufficiently stating that said person is scum.

MuffinMan, is your vote even on me?

[Oversoul]

ebwop: it appears so yes.

[Oversoul]

Oh, that may have been scum hunting, I guess, but that was what... two weeks ago? What have you done since then?

I'm not asking you to vote every person you find scummy, but you've been doing nothing with your vote for a loooooooooong time and you're not even showing any intention of doing anything with your vote this close to the deadline.

This close to a deadline...

We have a week.

I don't want to vote anyone because no one is sticking out as scum to me... Maruchan is my most probably vote candidate, then you, then Oman (WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU).

I reserve my vote until usually very late into the day so I have the most time to contemplate things.

[Oversoul]

Someone said 2.5 days. I didn't check. I'm lazy.

Either way, you're not doing anything.

Clearly when the title says the deadline... Not listening to you until the next day because of this (lazy) post by the way. If you are going to call me out on not doing anything when don't even have your facts straight, I'm not going to take you seriously. Like trying to follow a map made with crayon.

[Oversoul]

Hey, Vader2401! Any thoughts?

Also this.

Hey Vader, welcome to the flock. have you already read the rest of the game?

He just joined.

Maru, if you keep up you are going to sprout wings and fly away. O_o

I was looking through Maru's iso and some of the things he says... I don't know if it is just an act or what, but I think he is using his newb handicap to his advantage. Plus he is parroting other posters quite a lot.

[Oversoul]

its supposed to have over an hour of nothing but the war.

gunna be EPIC

The director wanted the two parts to be basically two different, standalone movies. The first one is akin to The Road with not much action and a lot of soul searching as well as character building and setting the scene of the trio's despair. The second movie is about all of the pain and suffering that Harry and co have endured throughout the series coming to a fruitful end in a glorious battle filled with explosions, monsters, and good triumphing over evil.

/end HP luv

[Oversoul]

....

[Oversoul]

Everyone hates the toast. *sigh*

[Oversoul]

A bit of RQS without the R... and not as general... and... well, it's not really RQS at all. Just some questions for everyone.

Oversoul: What do you think of Vader implying Panacea might have tried to save Maru by saying Vader's vote put Maru at L-1? Do you think her mix-up was on purpose?

I feel like Vader was stretching things when he said "she might have tried to make it seem more drastic in an effort to get my vote off Maru".

I do not think that her mix up was on purpose. I don't know why you added that point, as both Packbat and zMuffinMan have already mixed up the deadline of the first day (which is... odd). Number, do you find zMuffinMan's attempt to provoke me into voting by saying the deadline was closing when he falsely assumed it ended in 2.5 days is an act of scum trying to get Maru lynched or just general "do something with your vote"?

I am having a hard time believe Vader's opinion about Panacea miscalculating the vote, just as Packbat doubted his defense. People make mistakes and there have already been a lot this game such as the deadline confusion, the QT confusion, and now the vote count confusion. Why are you so fixated on this particular confusion, Number/Vader?

Vader, for what reasons do you think I am scummy? Please point them out and try not to put work onto zMuffinMan's plate. Saying I agree with blahblah that so-and-so is scummy/town is a nice way to look like you are contributing when you haven't actually thought about the situation.

I had Val as a town player for her in depth look into Maru, but you make the slot less towny.

[Oversoul]

I don't have any pictures so... accept this smiley face.

[Oversoul]

Wow. I totally did not expect that response from Vader at all. ._.

[Oversoul]

is that good or bad?

I don't know. It is on the same boat as your damn Quick Topic comment. I feel that the post is too easily defeatist. I mean Vader basically crawled back into a cave with his tail between his legs. O_o

[Oversoul]

Chat Mafia is the worse thing ever... how can people honestly enjoy that?

[Oversoul]

Did you look at a game or are you getting this impression straight from me?

No, you actually play mafia.

I just played a couple of games and it is horrible. 30 second deadlines where you have to spell the person's name right exactly?

Themes that don't tell you the command to do your action?

People who blitz claim a power role and ask for PMs from other Power Roles?

Generally assholeishness. It is too much too handle and so fast paced it is ridiculous.

[Oversoul]

I might do a study of D1 lynches over a span of like 100 or so games. or all games with the new setup.

Just to see if scum are lynched d1 more often

I can tell you right now, they aren't due to the statistics and likelihood of hitting someone from the larger town group.

What do you think is more likely? Hitting the 8 Goldfish or hitting the 1 Chinese Fighting Fish?

[Oversoul]

Also, I will be giving opinions, but after reading Panacea's case against Vader, I am probably going to hammer him, unless someone beats me to the punch.

[Oversoul]

The question is less "are scum lynched more often than town, D1?" than "are scum lynched

more often than chance

, D1?"

PEdit: Hold off for a day, Oversoul - if Robocopter87 can find a replacement for Vader2401, we should ask him to claim.

Fine although I feel like I should do it tonight.

[Oversoul]

Yay for advancing the game and for another game which I don't have to check frequently!

That's not particularly good... Scum usually try to lurk because they don't want to fabricate arguments as to why certain people are scum. Not checking a thread very often is a part of that lurking game they play.

Oversoul - Town
smallpeoples343 - Scummy. Hasn't been around for the later half of D1 and then upon his return states he is happy he doesn't have to check the thread as much meaning he is happy he doesn't have to scum hunt.
ValiliaRei (Vader) - Dead now, but I feel he is scummy too. For giving basically no opinions of his own and hopping onto any sort of moving wagon. When I called him out, took back everything he said and then tried to replace out. O_o
Oman - Not enough activity to make any sort of judgement at this point. I guess being the Title Fairy draws him away from games. [subliminal]Overtoast[/subliminal]
numberQ - Overly cautious which I think is a scum tell, but everyone brought up the point that he could be a PR. We will see after tonight. If there is a doctor, they should probably protect Number.
Maruchan - Seems scummy, especially after he replaced in, but he has developed into a more townie player. I haven't really iso'ed him, but after toNight I will.
Panacea (SE) - Town. I felt she was town from the beginning. Good scumhunting and generally active. Beautiful case on Vader.
zMuffinMan (SE) - scummy. Wants me lynched like there is no tomorrow. I don't like his meta. His arguments are weak and I feel like his hammer was an effort to try and implicate me as scum.
Packbat (IC) - Town. Pretty active and generally trying to educate the players early on. Although his activity has waned, I still view him as town.

I would be fine with Maruchan or zMuffinMan lynch tomorrow depending on how the night actions go.

[Oversoul]

Okay, first question we have to ask after seeing the night-kill: why zMuffinMan?

In my estimation, there are only three factors the Mafia will use for picking who to kill each night:

either they will pick someone who is a confirmed town player (e.g. a claimed PR), they will pick someone who is pushing for their own lynch, or they will pick a WIFOM candidate - someone whose death will deceive the town.

WIFOM NKs are uncommon on Night 1, in my experience.

zMuffinMan was not confirmed town - he was not even universally

considered

town.

Therefore:

So, yeah. Love when games stall.

Still thinking Oversoul>vader>small as my suspects.

That's mostly due to town reads of varying strength on every other player.

VOTE: Oversoul

God damn, zMuffinMan. I would agree that this is a WIFOM Nightkill that was chosen in order to incriminate me. Packbat, immediately jumping onto this lynch based off a dead town's scum read/tunneling is opportunistic and in my opinion feeding right into the hands of the scumteam (if it wasn't his own idea). I bolded a section of your post, more specifically the last 2 points about a nightkill. I find it a coincidence that you use "someone who wanted them lynched", and then said "a WIFOM kill".

Clearly since Number was not killed he is my first suspect given the whole uncertainty about his alignment and whether or not he was a PR.

Suspicions:
NumberQ
Maruchan
Packbat

For right now, I am voting NumberQ. VOTE: NumberQ

[Oversoul]

...wow, Oversoul/Maruchan scumteam, anyone?

Maruchan: I can't rule out a WIFOM kill, obviously, but I think it's kinda uncommon early in the game because there are so many players and so many things to look at. Newbie scum in particular are inclined to aim at people going after themselves - I know I was.

WHEN I FLIP TOWN AFTER I DIE OR GET LYNCHED

LYNCH PACKBAT

/end caps

That was totally baseless and whatever cover you had is now gone.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Packbat

[Oversoul]

I know it was OMGUS, but Packbat, who played excellently and most helpful Day 1, is playing absolutely scummy after zMuffinMan died. I just want to warn everyone because I fear I won't be around for too long.

Packbat and Maruchan don't seem to be on the same team and his (Maruchan's) most recent posts make me less suspicious of his scumminess.

[Oversoul]

Hey, lurker Panacea

[Oversoul]

On an off note, has MuffinMan been in yet to see that he is dead? and does he plan on leaving us a farewell and good luck post?

That most he can say is Bah!

[Oversoul]

Oversoul says Packbat's vote on him was opportunistic, even though Packbat gave 3 different reasons the scum would nightkill someone, showed why he thought two of them weren't likely, and voted based on the third.

However, I'm wondering why Packbat thinks WIFOM nightkills Night 1 are uncommon. Wouldn't keeping the town confused for as long as possible be beneficial for the scum?

On that note, I agree with Oversoul that his vote on Packbat was OMGUS but not without reason. Doesn't mean I think Packbat's scum, because right now him and Oversoul are iffy for me (with Oversoul being a bit more scummy and Packbat being a bit more townie).

---

As for this whole "PR or scum" thing, I've always thought that claims were serious. If I'm asked to I will, but it's my understanding that they change the game, so I don't want to claim spontaneously.

The doubt I had about you being scum is now gone. I am no longer looking for a NumberQ lynch because his most recent post is pretty town motivated.

Also, Maruchan's post after NumberQ seems incredibly opportunistic just a way to deflect heat off himself.

Panacea, here are the things I feel about zMuffinMan's death. A) the scum thought he was PR, B) they did not like his aggressive townie style and felt threatened by him, or C) they wanted to kill him to implicate me.

Now, I can see the first 2, but I didn't really think about the third one until Packbat made it clear that was what he thought, which makes me think he is suspicious. I do believe that scum is pushing my wagon and I do believe I am intended mislynch. I don't want to go through with a quicklynch especially after we faillynched the townie without giving his replacement a chance to claim when we could have asked for an extension due to our lynch getting replaced.

There is no possibility, I AM TOWN.

VOTE: Maruchan

[Oversoul]

Right this second? I don't want ANYBODY lynched, How do I feel about an oversoul lynch? I say its a bad idea to want to lynch anyone without first discussing as a town what the night action implicates, and what it could implicate, and reasons why we think certain implications are unlikely.

I'd prefer for us all to PRETEND there are no scum, and learn to work together for 5 minutes bettering the town as a whole, rather than spend all of our time discussing who we DON'T trust. Seems pointless to me.

So to directly answer the question, in the simplest terms: I am opposed. NOT because I am opposed to an Oversoul lynch in particular, I am just opposed to any lynch until we can all learn to discuss without being at each others throats. Once we discuss, and we analyze and we determine that Oversoul being scum is one of the most likely implications from last night, I would be all for an Oversoul lynch though.

Okay. Then how do you feel about an Oversoul lynch

based on the argument that he was MuffinMan's main suspect"

So town can't be wrong?

[Oversoul]

Because of the question that I just answered, VOTE: Oversoul

Are you serious? Sheeping now, Small?

Scumspicions:
Maruchan
Packbat
Smallpeoples

[Oversoul]

In all fairness, I thought I was definitely dead once I saw that my wagon was gaining momentum. I don't really know what to make of Stuntman or his predecessors' play other than the quote that Maruchan quoted looks incredibly forced and almost like Stunt is elbowing Small into agreement.

[Oversoul]

Smallpeoples is acting weird. I am willing to vote for him since I feel that Maruchan is less scummy as the days pass. Plus, it would save Robo time on a replacement, and I don't like having to read several different people (read: Stuntman/Oman/RobinTBW/Ellf).

[Oversoul]

No, I prod dodged yesterday.

[Oversoul]

I am here.

I think Stuntman's "let scum hammar!" is suspicious and a set up that he would want to use later in the day as the basis to vote someone.

Anyway, I am curious as to who will die tonight more than anything, although I fear they will go after an inactive in order to get the town down without indicating any connections. :\

[Oversoul]

-.-

[Oversoul]

Lylo.

Fuuuuuuuuuuccckkkk.

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul I see your name, you better step in and say something.

I know. I don't have the energy for this game right now. :\ I'm pretty depressed about results of our lynches so far. :\

Even after all of that NumberQ wifom, he still wasn't nightkilled. That is my first suspicion. Stuntman's slot hasn't really done anything all game and that is suspicious. bgalkejgsoimefs;oaweij

[Oversoul]

After this we enter a night-phase. During this nightphase, we get a night-phase extension. This means somebody with a night-action role had a question, problem, issue, or needed a replacement. Immediately following this night-phase, Oman is MiA for 3 days. He is then replaced. This would fall quite nicely into the reason the night took so long. Oman wasn't posting in his QT. His partner asked the mod to stall the night to try to find a replacement quickly. Mod stalls the nightphase. Replacement can't be found. Game continues, Oman is left in the dust, Replacement becomes necessary.
Either this is a very surprisingly well-timed COINCIDENCE, or wow that is scummy. (I don't believe in coincidences btw)

That is a really good point. Hmm. I hadn't thought about that at all. To be honest, I didn't even know we had a night phase extension.

[Oversoul]

I only notice it because I have no life so this game is my life so when this game's no-posting period gets extended I get all

Haha, same.

[Oversoul]

I had a sneaking suspicion of Pan after MuffinMan's flip as well as Packbat's flip. We really should have just lynched Maru, but I thought everyone was pretty town. Cop lynch day 1 made me not want to play this game anymore.