Newbie #1185 (Game Over!)

[fathom42]

Oh look, the game's open!

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Before we start, I'd like to note that I'm a college student, and while I'll be able to post a lot in the coming week due to fall break, my activity will severely drop when I return to my school. I'll still be around; you can expect a single post per day from me, as opposed to the multiple posts I'm making now.
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Hey, y'all. I'm rather new to online mafia, as I've only played three games in the real world. They were pretty small games, with only 7 players. The games really interested me, so I decided to find a place to play online. Thus, here I am!

I'd like to add an addendum to Shii's question, and ask if anyone has been scum in their games. If they were online, it would also be nice to have links to the games in question.

[fathom42]

Oh dear, looks like I failed to answer my own question. Yes, I was scum in one of those games (the only one in the mafia, in fact). I did reasonably well in it, managing to survive until lylo by fueling suspicion on one of the more aggressive town members. Unfortunately, in the end, the town chose to believe her instead of me, and I lost the game.

If anyone has specific questions about that game, feel free to ask!

[fathom42]

VOTE: Tierce, for being the first person to "fathom" my moniker on the interwebz.

About time someone got it. XD

[fathom42]

'Ay, Sampson. I know you've played a few games because you're an SE, but it would be nice to know what they were like. Care to post them?

[fathom42]

Tierce, whats wrong with giving town more information? Everyone besides Sampson gave relatively detailed summaries of their experience, and I'd like to know what he plays like. He's a SE on this site, which means he must have SOMETHING to post.

[fathom42]

Noted.

Since we probably won't get that much discussion out of our histories with the game (still want to hear from you, Sampson!), I'd like to ask everyone about their opinion of bandwagoning. I've found that, while it can be useful getting past the random voting stage, its more productive to begin the game with conversation. Bandwagoning, imo, doesn't produce much content for the town to use when compared to good old fashioned questioning.

For example, what do folks think of the exchange me and Tierce just had? I'd say that its the most meaningful thing to happen in the game thus far. I understand that its the early game and that joking around will be rampant, but I'd prefer to take things seriously. Once again, content is important above all else.

[fathom42]

Well, I think bandwagoning and conversation aren't separate; from what I've experienced and read bandwagoning can lead to some good conversation, and equally conversation can lead to a bandwagon. I prefer to start with conversation, because it seems like a bandwagon which picks up steam quickly can lead to one player becoming the focus of attention to the exclusion of all others for a day, particularly if they're aggressive.

As to your exchange, fathom, I think Tierce was joking... what makes you think it was particularly significant?

Only that it was the first non-introductory series of posts. You can't really talk much about people introducing themselves, so our exchange was the most significant thing to happen thus far.

@ Sampson

The acronym means "I've got my eye on you," if that was what was confusing you.

[fathom42]

Oops, meant to say @ Workdawg in my last post. Sorry if I confused anyone!

[fathom42]

Noted.

Since we probably won't get that much discussion out of our histories with the game (still want to hear from you, Sampson!), I'd like to ask everyone about their opinion of bandwagoning. I've found that, while it can be useful getting past the random voting stage, its more productive to begin the game with conversation. Bandwagoning, imo, doesn't produce much content for the town to use when compared to good old fashioned questioning.

For example, what do folks think of the exchange me and Tierce just had? I'd say that its the most meaningful thing to happen in the game thus far. I understand that its the early game and that joking around will be rampant, but I'd prefer to take things seriously. Once again, content is important above all else.

I'm more interested in what you have to say about the exchange, if you're taking it seriously.
I found Tierce's reaction to your slight pressure to be rather null, he got serious the post afterwards.

Are you yourself a player who lets your opinions be known, or waits for others' and reacts accordingly?

I'm a strong believer people clearly stating their opinions. It makes it harder for scum to maneuver, if the town has that standard.

I did in fact state my opinion of the exchange. I think that Tierce was joking around, and consider it a null tell. I also expressed my opinion that we should move beyond these types of exchanges as quickly as possible, which we appear to be doing.

[fathom42]

I'm gonna have to echo Cav here. Tierce, I don't see why townies shouldn't question someone who seems suspicious. Sure, that guy lurking in the back of the discussion could be a cop trying to stay alive, but he could just as easily be scum. If someone looks like they're acting suspiciously, its your duty as a townie to call them out.

Also, Cav, your example isn't available to the cop in every situation. The cop could easily find himself at L-1 without a scumfind to his name.

[fathom42]

SOAD, I'm worried about a number of things with you. First, I disagree with your position on attacking and defending and scum tells on day 1, but others have gone into it so there's no need for me to rehash that.

Second, your vote for Shii, whether or not you argue it as an attack, comes across as a thought out, planned move

; not what I'd call RVS, and I believe you yourself give reasons for this in your post #55. You claim you have no opinions on who scum is... but you're still voting for Shii. Like it or not, you've taken a stance on who scum is.

I'm not sure whether it's intentional or not, but you're coming across as quite confrontational; stuff like questioning someone's grasp on the game and then playing the 'i'm just a poor newbie, why don't you tell me where I'm going wrong' thing is just odd. I'm presuming this is a playstyle issue, for now, but you can see why it looks scummy, yes?

Kinda curious about why you think that (see bolded sentence.).

Also, SOAD, what are you responding to in the post below?

No.

[fathom42]

Also:

Unvote

Vote: Sampson

He and Haycorn haven't really been contributing much to the game. Haycorn, however, has a good reason for this. Sampson, care to comment on whats been going on?

[fathom42]

im chillin' in the back and watching the game progress

Ok then.

Unvote

Vite: Inte

You say you've been following the game, but you haven't posted anything? You must have SOMETHING to say.

@ Cav: I didn't initially vote for him, because I wasn't sure if he was totally inactive or lurking. Didn't see the point to voting him if he was going to get replaced in a day.

[fathom42]

"the one who has the most to say has the most to hide"
hope i did this right
VOTE: FATHOM

Uh, could you contribute a bit more than an OMGUS, please? Perhaps by further elaborating on your accusation against me, or by telling us what you think of the day's events thus far (i.e., the Chii and SOAD exchange).

[fathom42]

No, I do not see how it is scummy. Strange, yes. Scummy, no.

I agree with this, actually. SOAD being confrontational is not necessarily scummy. I can come across that way when I really find someone to attack.

SOAD's vote for Shii smells of distancing. Notice how he votes, but then says it's not an attack? He wants to vote for Shii, but he doesn't want people to think he is scummy for doing it. This is scum mentality as they need to vote for someone, but if that person flips town, they will be scrutinized (everyone on the wagon will) and saying "I'm not attacking you" is a good one. (Really it's not, but for some reason people like to do that).

Distancing refers to a scum-scum interaction that is an attempt to create disassociation, iirc.

I disagree with Cav here, SOAD's playstyle is quite the opposite of confrontational, in this case at least.

I feel that distancing has a bit more broad definition than simply scum buddy interactions. Typically, distancing can be applied to pretty much any scenario or behavior where the player seems to want to disassociate themselves from, or avoid the blame for something. In this case, I accused SOAD of distancing because he voted for Shii, but seemed like he didn't want to be blamed for it.

VOTE: inte
There won't be any chillin' in the back. If you're town, we need your contribute. That behavior is as scummy as could be. We don't know

anything at all

about you.

This times 100. Lurking is scummy, providing no content in your few posts is even more scummy. I realize this is your first game, so I'll give you some slack... but as others have said, we need EVERYONE to participate in finding scum. You don't have to be correct about everything you post, but you do need to post your thoughts on what's going on. If you aren't posting, why should we let you live when you could be scum? Your post 81 is actually pretty good. Good insight there, though I think you're definition of OMGUS might be a bit off. OMGUS is "oh my god, you suck" and refers to the scenario where someone votes for another player simply because that player voted for them. fathom isn't "OMGUSing" you. He voted for you for a valid reason.

I believe he's referring to my vote on Tierce, actually.

[fathom42]

Vote: Inte

In case the previous one wasn't counted. Thanks to Cav for pointing it out to me.

[fathom42]

Ok, I'm about to head off to watch that new twilight movie with my friends. Well, more like mock it with my friends, but that's beside the point.

Inte, I promise I'll answer your question after I get back (Probably around 1 or 2 EST). You WILL say what you think of the other players after I have done so, correct?

[fathom42]

Personally, I think the Shii/SOAD thing was scummy from both sides. I don't approve of either of them resorting to personal attacks (i.e. "I question your grasp on this game," Shii's sarcasm, etc.). Either one of them could be baiting the other, trying to get them to post something reactionary. I truly hope that the rest of the game is more civil than what just went down, for its easy for scum to play the game when they have their targets angry.

Aside from that, no real reads on Shii, aside from the fact that I agree with him on game theory.

Now, as for SOAD, I gotta echo what people were saying about his vote on Shii. The distancing, the reactionary wording, etc. Also, I disagree with his vote on Sampson, if his only justification is wanting to ensure that he isn't scum. That's not a good enough basis to lynch something, especially because his experience playing as scum would be a boon to us if he turned out to be town.

[fathom42]

*lynch some

one

Not trying to imply that Workdawg is a thing.

On that note, g'nite everyone. Gotta get some sleep before my 8:00 clock tomorrow.

[fathom42]

I am indeed referring to his vote on Workdawg. I apologize for the typo; those things happen to me a lot when I'm tired.

[fathom42]

Yo, Inte. What do you think of Shii/SOAD? I've been asking this for awhile, and I'd like an answer.

[fathom42]

Ugh, my intuition is really telling me a certain player is scum, but I don't want to put the spotlight on them just yet. For three reasons: one, I would come off hypocritical after all my speeches about day 1; two, my intuition could be wrong and I feel I should wait for when I have a better case against them, and three, I want to keep scum in the dark, make them second guess themselves and look for changes in behavior after posting this. I honestly don't know if I should even be posting this since it goes against every strategy I decided on coming into the game, but for now

Unvote

PS, what do you guys think the setup is? For now I'm feeling 2 mafia, 6 town, and a power role (doctor if I had to guess)

You probably would have been better off not posting this. Flat-out saying that you're looking for changes in behavior kind of defeats the purpose of keeping scum in the dark. :/

[fathom42]

I apologize for inactivity. In hindsight, I probably should've asked for V/LA over Thanksgiving break. I'm about to return to my college campus, so I cannot post now. However, I shall read up and post my thoughts by 10 PM EST.

[fathom42]

Ok, read everything. I know you guys are gonna hate me for this, but I'm gonna have to hold off on making an extended post. The drive back to college really took it out of me; I'm just too tired to make a good post right now. I'm sorry about this, but my health comes before this game.

However, I do leave y'all with a promise that I'll get up early tomorrow, and have my thoughts posted by 8 AM EST.