Newbie 1248 (GAME OVER)

User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #3 (isolation #0) » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:20 am

Post by Seacore »

Hello all.

I'm your IC for this game.

For those of you who are new to this concept, I'm "Inexperience-Challenged", worded this way to accurately suggest that just because I've been around longer than you, it doesn't mean I'm better than you at this game.

I'm here to help you out with both the fundamentals of the game, and also the fundamentals of how this site plays the game. The difference between these two things I'll get to in a bit.

I'm also here to play the game, and by playing the game, I mean I'm trying to win. That creates a bit of unavoidable conflict of interest.

To help with that, any time I type in blue it means I'm telling the truth and I'm trying to educate. That doesn't mean that my normal text is lies, and there will obviously be some grey area, but hey, I do what I can.

So, first, some fundamentals.

Everybody should aim at posting once a day. That's more than the mod requires, but it means that when we all inevitably miss a day, we're still within requirements. It also helps with such a small game; if you don't post, there's not that many people to fill the gap.

Nobody should claim without a very good reason. Even saying "I'm just a vanialla townie" is a bad idea. Because it means that the mafia (also called 'scum') have a smaller pool to aim at to hit the Power Roles (PRs). Good reasons include: Your claim provides a guilty result on scum or you're one vote away from being lynched (at L-1). There usually aren't any other good reasons. If you're in doubt, as before you claim (as long as you're aware that even asking may out you as a PR).

Also, you should not place the final vote on somebody without giving them a fair chance to claim. Simply saying "oh, I didn't realise they were at L-1" is not acceptable. There aren't that many players, read all the posts before you vote.

NO SELF VOTING. Ever! Ever! There are some very complex situations where this may be appropriate. They won't come up here, so don't. Even if you think your lynch is inevitable and you are frustrated at being lynched, don't vote yourself, you're hurting yourself and your team. Good things can still come out of town being lynched, just try and continue to play the game and find scum.

Finally, just because somebody disagrees with you does not make them scum. Even if you think they are doing something stupid. Instead of looking for who

Okay, thats probably it for now with the fundamentals.

Lets talk about about how the game starts up, because lets face it, all the good guys are 'uninformed' which means that right now we have no information.

Some people like to start the game with a "Random Voting Stage" meaning they just place votes for no or made up reasons on players. I'm not a huge fan of this, but I don't make a big noise about it.

Other people like to start the game with a "Random Question Stage" meaning they ask a series of questions to some or all players and apparently gauge an insight from the answers, I personally think this is wank and I tend to ignore it.

Of course, not doing either of the first two doesn't leave many other options. I like to do different things depending on what's already happening in the game. Sometimes I make a really bad attack at somebody just to get people to pick sides. Other times I add a third vote to a wagon without a reason, looking for somebody to attack me (for similar reasons), things like that.

I'm going to be overly explaining myself in most instances in this game. I'd prefer if you guys err on that side of things as well, vote with clear reasons (unless you are RVSing)

Okay, good luck to both teams, lets play
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #5 (isolation #1) » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:59 am

Post by Seacore »

Those aren't terrible questions and I'm happy to answer them.
I'm GMT +10
RVS does nothing until it initiates conflict, then it has value. Votes should mean something, but not necessarily the same thing every time. However, voting and declaring that it is for pressure is self defeating.
Lynching liars is good most of the time, but it shouldn't be automatic. Lynching lurkers isn't as successful in winning the game as I wish it was, particularly not in a 9 player game.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #7 (isolation #2) » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:04 am

Post by Seacore »

Wombat, is there a way to discourage anti-town behaviour other than lynching it ? Does not lynching anti-town give scum a free pass?
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #16 (isolation #3) » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:50 pm

Post by Seacore »

In post 8, wombat99 wrote:
In post 7, Seacore wrote:Wombat, is there a way to discourage anti-town behaviour other than lynching it ? Does not lynching anti-town give scum a free pass?



I don't think it gives scum a free pass. Scum are not going to do something obviously anti-town if they are trying to pass as town. Wouldn't it be just as likely that a newbie Townie would do something anti-town inadvertently?


There is a problem with this logic. The moment that you declare that anti-town behaviour is more likely to come from town than scum, you are effectively giving scum permission to act that way. On the flip side, if you lynch anti-town behaviour, scum are forced to be pro-town, which restricts their freedom, and any mislynches are from anti-town town, which weren't helping town win anyway
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #24 (isolation #4) » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:53 pm

Post by Seacore »

That is patently false LC. You may think that an RVS isn't helpful, and I'd agree with you, but to say it doesn't exist as a concept is wrong. As an SE please try and be clear about when you're giving your opinion.

Also, it's a weekend , so let's not get worked up about some players not posting.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #30 (isolation #5) » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:23 pm

Post by Seacore »

Oh, don't know what happened there. Let me try and remember what I was going to say...

Probably something along the lines of
Instead of looking for who is doing things differently to you, look for why people are doing the things they are doing, motivations are more telling than actions
.

Maybe something like that. Not sure, I was in a totally different headspace when I sat and wrote my IC wall. That being said, that line is in blue, which means I mean it.

In other news, I like this second SE, he's represented my feelings on the two non-timezone questions very well, probably better than I did.

The only thing I'd probably comment on is that this is a newbie game and one with a 3 week Day. So RQS, particularly when it comes to a few staples of game theory, is okay for right now. We've got time to help the beginners. The biggest learning curve is not how to play mafia but how to play mafia at mafiascum.net. So this kind of discussion is a little helpful for this game and super helpful for their careers.

In other news, I've decided to

Vote LordChronos


This is not an RVS vote. Its mostly gut, but there is something in the tone of his post that feels... misdirecting. Like he's trying to take truths of the game and turn them slightly.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #32 (isolation #6) » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:51 am

Post by Seacore »

Is skimming and/or being obtuse scummy? Why?
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #54 (isolation #7) » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:03 am

Post by Seacore »

wombat is town.

No newbie scum picks a fight with the IC.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #69 (isolation #8) » Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:05 pm

Post by Seacore »

I'm at work, I don't get much of a chance to type, but I try to stay in touch with the game so I read. I also often read by phone but like to avoid typing on it.

I also had the duty of closing off the game I was running, so that took the small amount of time I had. I'll get to you.

I have mixed feelings on Arinna. There is something that she's doing that is pinning my scumdar, but I want to ISO to make sure that I'm not misreading an over-eager newbie which is to be expected. So I'll get to you later.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #74 (isolation #9) » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:39 pm

Post by Seacore »

In post 72, Axxle wrote:
In post 69, Seacore wrote:I'm at work, I don't get much of a chance to type, but I try to stay in touch with the game so I read. I also often read by phone but like to avoid typing on it.

I also had the duty of closing off the game I was running, so that took the small amount of time I had. I'll get to you.

I have mixed feelings on Arinna. There is something that she's doing that is pinning my scumdar, but I want to ISO to make sure that I'm not misreading an over-eager newbie which is to be expected. So I'll get to you later.

... still waiting...


Dude, cut it out, seriously. And I don't just mean for me or this game. People have real lives. They also live in different timezones. I'm in Australia and I work during the day and then look after my daughter until my wife gets home. Then I get some PC time and I can play.
If days passed, and if I had posted here without answering or if I had posted in other games without posting here, then you can get uppity, but until then, just be patient.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #75 (isolation #10) » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:07 pm

Post by Seacore »

So, I've ISO'd Arinna and I'm leaning far towards over-eager newbie vibes than scum. Her reads have clear reasonings behind them, but they don't appear contrived.

That ISO read has also given me a townread on Hyperion, I think thats some good scum hunting. Hyperion, Arinna may have been odd to have a 'town read' so early, but her reason is okay, and it appears town motivated.

Off to do some more reading.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #77 (isolation #11) » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:31 pm

Post by Seacore »

Okay, done.

Crabby, your stance is unacceptable. You don't need firm scum or town reads, but you need more than a general "everything looks fine here". If everybody sat around doing that, we'd get nowhere.

To start you off, tell us what you've read that doesn't strike you as scummy. There's been plenty of confrontation so far. Give us one or two lines of your opinion of each side. With reasons and examples. If you posted the way you have in a non-newbie game, you might have been lynched right now. So free-newbie pass expended, get into this game.

Anyway. I still have a light scum read on LC. I also have one Axxle. He's jumping into arguments in a way that doesn't add to the discussion, it's a little bit of parroting and a lot of noise.

Granted, neither scum read would stand up on Day 3, but this is Day 1 and the pickings are light.

LC needs to post more, so does the other SE but V/LA obviously gets in the way.

PEDIT: My post did not 'strongly imply' that I was about to post. "I'm at work , I don't get much of a chance to type"....... "So I'll get to you later" . Nothing here suggests a quick turn around. Just over 6 hours inbetween my post and your 'still waiting' post.

And yes, I find an ISO helps me get a read on a single player. Even with 3 pages to read, I get distracted by the other players.

This is enough for me, this is a hack job and it feels scummy
Unvote. Vote Axxle

LC can be reviewed tomorrow.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #81 (isolation #12) » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:24 am

Post by Seacore »

I was thinking the same thing, Hyperion
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #87 (isolation #13) » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:29 pm

Post by Seacore »

LC,
You've posted 7 times in this game. Two of them have been about your activity and nothing else.
So that makes 5 votes of 'substance'. That substance mostly is you arguing that your misleading comment about RVS wasn't misleading. There's been an fairly large deficit of scum hunting from you. You went after Axxle, great, I find him scummy too.

So i maintain my desire of wanting you to post more. But I'll elaborate. Post more substance.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #91 (isolation #14) » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:51 pm

Post by Seacore »

Its a newbie game, so we should be slightly forgiving of crabby, but yes, this forgiveness has a shelf life.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #106 (isolation #15) » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:39 pm

Post by Seacore »

Axxle,

1. Please don't fall into the trap of using buzz words and acronyms. They're not as helpful as they are dangerous. I'm not just talking about the words themselves, mind you, I'm talking about the concepts. Using them as scum tells without understanding them properly is not good.

2. What Hyperion is doing isn't IIOA. He's stating what he's seen of a player, stated his interpretation of that and then given a final read based on the above info. That is the definition of analysis.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #109 (isolation #16) » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:51 pm

Post by Seacore »

Its important you guys learn the buzz terms, because a lot of players use them, but I think relying on them is not so helpful. Things like IIOA, WIFOM AtE. Too much gets written off as these things and then discarded.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #128 (isolation #17) » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:22 pm

Post by Seacore »

kalbim, I echo other people, please get in the game as fast as possible. Your reason is not a good reason to vote for LC.

In post 115, wombat99 wrote:Seacore, can you speak to this: I've never played in a hammer vote game. What is the protocol - Hyperion's hesitation to vote has made me hesitate, too. Is it good form to vote to lynch or go to L-1 when we have a newly-subbed-in player we have not heard from yet?


I'm not sure what you mean by a 'hammer vote game' so please explain that, but...
In a normal game, putting somebody you find scummy at L-1 (one vote away from the lynch threshold) is fine. However, this is a newbie game and L-1 can be risky because newbie games often have loose cannons and people who dont' read and then BAM, we have a lynch we weren't quite ready for.
Similarly, it's good to avoid L-1 when we've got so many undercontributing player slots. So giving them a few days to catch up before we up the ante with an L-1 is a good idea.

I, however, completely and loudly disagree that we should use the whole deadline period.
Constructive conversation comes mostly from two things
1) Discussion on who to lynch today
2) Discussion about the use of PRs and/or PR results

We aren't doing 2 today, but it might come up in later Days. So all we have is 1. If you specifically avoid trying to lynch somebody, the conversations become meaningless. This includes deciding on who to lynch and then trying to continue to scum hunt for his buddies. There's no real pressure. You're better off lynching, ending the day, getting a flip, a Night Kill, some PR results and then coming back the next Day. Best case scenario your extra conversation has been a waste of time. Worst case, we've helped scum work out who to Night Kill (because they'll avoid people we're suspicious of).


So, I propose we leave Axxle at L-2, wait for the others to contribute a bit more. All of them should weigh in on Axxle.

And once that's happned, if people still find him scummy enough to bring him to L-1, we get a claim. And then we decide whether to lynch.

If/When that claim comes, I don't want anybody to counterclaim him straight away. If he claims your power role, stay silent at first, I'll give you a green light to counter claim if necessary.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #130 (isolation #18) » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:22 pm

Post by Seacore »

WHAT?

Why would I be trying to coach a scumbuddy to counter claim an actual role? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

TownAxxle: Hi everybody! I'm the doctor! Don't lynch me
Seacore's supposed scum buddy: No! I'm the doctor! Lynch him
-Axxle is lynched-
-Axxle flips town doctor-
-Seacore's supposed scum buddy dies Day 2-

Why exactly would, at this point of the game, scum counterclaim?
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #131 (isolation #19) » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:24 pm

Post by Seacore »

Also, I'd say I'm going out of my way to separate my IC role from my player role. Anything I say in blue is a game theory opinion that I have regardless of my role in this game. Anything in black is me playing this game.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #133 (isolation #20) » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:55 pm

Post by Seacore »

Exactly, but in both of those scenarios, it hardly equates to me coaching a scum buddy. So LC is just being crazy.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #156 (isolation #21) » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:24 pm

Post by Seacore »

kalbim is in my "willing to lynch today" list. So we'll give Chaos some time to catch up and then I'll be putting kalbim at L-1
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #158 (isolation #22) » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:49 am

Post by Seacore »

It's almost certainly a small mistake, since someone just invited me.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #178 (isolation #23) » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:29 pm

Post by Seacore »

In post 175, wombat99 wrote:I would like to hear from Seacore before lynching Axxle - why Kalbim over Axxle?


I'm happy for either, but I was already voting axxle, so I couldn't bring him closer to the lynch.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #190 (isolation #24) » Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:08 pm

Post by Seacore »

I'd rather lynch kalbim, but I still think axxle is scum. I think kalbim has come in, scum slipped and is now terrified of posting.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #193 (isolation #25) » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:34 am

Post by Seacore »

Because that would lynch him. I'd rather give him the chance. His next post should have him claiming though.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #206 (isolation #26) » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:35 pm

Post by Seacore »

okay, so we're in twilight. The period of time inbetween the lynch vote but before the mod closes the thread.

kalbim needs to step up his game tomorrow.

I didn't see axxle's claim, where was it?
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #207 (isolation #27) » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:36 pm

Post by Seacore »

Ah, there it is, VT
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #210 (isolation #28) » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:49 pm

Post by Seacore »

its all wifom in both directions anyway.

Maybe Hyperion is the best target for the doctor, maybe he isn't
Maybe him asking for protection will make the doctor change his mind and protect him, or maybe it'll make him change his mind and not protect him, or not.
Maybe Hyperion is the doctor trying to throw the scent off
Maybe Hyperion is scum, looking to distract a doctor
Maybe there is no doctor
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #214 (isolation #29) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:55 am

Post by Seacore »

Okay, so we've got only one scum left in the game. And that scum is a Roleblocker. This puts the town in a good position, because we will definitely make it Day 5 unless we win before that.
So thats 3 mislynches.

What does this mean for PRs?
If there's a cop and they get an innocent, it's probably too early to reveal that, because you'll be outting yourself, and you don't know if there's a doc to protect you.
If there's a cop and they get a guilty, you obviously need to reveal that, since we'll have won. If there were multiple scum left, it would be less of a sure thing (but I'd personally probably reveal, although I've been called trigger happy on reveals before).
If there's a Jailkeeper, since there's only one scum left, whoever you targeted is town. But you probably shouldn't reveal that. If you ever target somebody and then there's no kill... then you've probably got to have a think about it, because that person could be the scum... or they could be the target, or they could be neither and a doc might have saved the kill... but its still something to think about.
A doc won't have any useful information at this point, but if it's ever revealed that there is no JK, then if there's no kill, whoever you protected is town.


Okay, now me as a player. I want to hear much more from kalbim, he's probably me vote preference so far.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #217 (isolation #30) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:55 am

Post by Seacore »

I felt the exact same way about Axxle's reluctance wombat, good catch.

And you're totally right, it's RoleCop, I haven't played this new set up before and was distracted when I checked the original post (OP).

In my opinion, that changes things slightly.

Mod - Can the Rolecop use both his ability and his factional kill in the same night?
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #219 (isolation #31) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:42 pm

Post by Seacore »

Cool, so that suggests the Rolecop can do both.

In which case... the threshold for claiming roles is much lower, since scum are going to narrow down who the PRs are pretty soon.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #221 (isolation #32) » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:27 pm

Post by Seacore »

Well, if kalbim doesn't post in a few days, the mod will prod and replace him, which is better than just voting for him because he's quiet.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #225 (isolation #33) » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:00 am

Post by Seacore »

I understand that, I'm just saying that we should let the slot respond before lynching it, be that kalbim or his replacement.

Pedit: thanks mod
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #227 (isolation #34) » Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:24 am

Post by Seacore »

As long as it takes for him to post or be replaced.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #233 (isolation #35) » Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:01 pm

Post by Seacore »

Good catch Hyperion, that's pretty damning. I really can't see any town motivation for that. Hell, it almost makes me want to lynch him immediately.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #240 (isolation #36) » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:26 pm

Post by Seacore »

Kalbim, please claim in your next post.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #242 (isolation #37) » Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:45 pm

Post by Seacore »

Declaring what your PM says, without quoting it of course. Largely, we want him to say whether he is Vanilla Townie, Doctor, Cop or Jailkeeper. Or Rolecop, he should totally claim if he's a rolecop.

Basically, if he's scum, he'll be tempted to claim a Power Role to make himself more desirable for us to keep alive. If he does then he may get counterclaimed. Even if he doesn't get counterclaimed, there's a chance that the other two power roles are in the game, and there can't be three, so we catch him that way. Or he claims VT, which, combined with how useless he is, makes us want to lynch him even more.
Being the last remaining scum and being forced to claim is tough, which is great for us.

There's more to it than that.. but that's probably enough for now.

So Kalbim must claim. If he posts without claiming, or his replacement posts without claiming, I'll hammer.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #252 (isolation #38) » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:51 am

Post by Seacore »

I've had a think about it and I totally agree... which is making me rethink the Regfan guilty slot read.

That being said, Regfan is a good player, so I don't expect him to read as scummy.

More people should weigh in on the Jailkeeper claiming idea, but I think it's sound.

Scenario 1 - Jailkeeper claims. He claims who he targetted last night. That target is confirmed town. The JK then claims who he will target tonight. If he's picked scum, scum can't do anything about it. If he's picked town, scum have the choice of killing somebody else (most likely choice) which then clears the target, or they can choose not to kill, making it look like the target was scum, but we're still doing well because there was no night kill.

1a - Then the other PR claims their role, if they're the cop, we get even more clears out of it.

1b - No other PR claims and we can therefore assume it is only the JK.

Scenario 2 - No JK claims, we can therefore assume there is no JK, which helps us narrow down the possible set ups.

Yes, this plan gives info to the scum team, but they have a rolecop and would be getting this info soon anyway.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #258 (isolation #39) » Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:06 pm

Post by Seacore »

I haven't declared Regfan town, I said that he seems town but that he's a good player who would always seem town in his first couple of posts.

However, regardless of whether he is town or scum, his Jailkeeper plan is a good one.

I would like other people to weigh in on whether they think the Jailkeeper claiming plan is a good one.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #264 (isolation #40) » Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:47 pm

Post by Seacore »

I think wombat is town, everything feels genuine.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #271 (isolation #41) » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:22 am

Post by Seacore »

It can't really be both of those things, wombat. It's either a good idea or it isn't.

Lets do the numbers.
Right now there are 6 town alive. The JK (if there is one) can clear 1 today and, by declaring his target, clears 1 tomorrow. If there's a Doc, then the JK survives one more night on top of that.
So if there's no Doc, then we'll start Day 3 with 5 town alive, 2 of which are cleared. That leaves us with scum:unknown of 1:3 . We kill one of those four, the scum kills one of the confirmed town, we kill one of three, the scum kills the other confirmed town. That leaves us with 1:2. So, worst case scenario it leaves us with a Lynch or Lose (LyLo) situation on Day 5. But the Day 3 and 4 lynches are at much better odds.

If there's a Doc on top of the JK, then it's even better. The Doc keeps the JK alive and dies tonight. That leaves us with 3 proven town and scum:unknown of 1:2. We kill one of those three and the JK declares which one he's targetting N3. The scum then kills the JK leaving us with 3 proven town and a choice of 1:1. We kill one of those 2, and whoever the scum kills that night, we've caught him.

So lets compare this to the scum.
The scum has, at the moment 6 town opponents. He has rolecopped one of these. So he has either had a 1/3 or a 1/6 chance of finding a PR. If he's found a PR, that PR dies tonight (assuming we don't do the claim plan) if he does not, he kills somebody else and rolecops somebody else. Meaning at the start of D3 we have either lost a PR, the scum has found 1 VT (N1) and 1 PR (N2) or at the very least has narrowed down the PRs to a much smaller pool. The odds are that by N3 the scum has shot a PR or at the very least, worked out who they are by the process of elimination.

D3 we almost certainly all massclaim, because the scum will know so much by then that we're better off knowing it too.

Despite this good plan of Reg's, I'm leaning towards killing his slot.

If not, I want to kill Lord Chronos's slot or possibly Sora's slot. I wanted to kill Sora's slot a lot more before the replace out. I know it should be a null read, but I can't help shake it as a slight town tell.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #274 (isolation #42) » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:21 am

Post by Seacore »

Okay, and that's three of us pro JK claim, everybody else should weigh in.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #276 (isolation #43) » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:25 pm

Post by Seacore »

I'm assuming that none of us four are JKs, if that's wrong, don't wait for the others to say they are pro-plan, just claim

Other PRs SHOULD NOT claim yet.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #286 (isolation #44) » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:08 pm

Post by Seacore »

Welcome replacements,

Before you catch up, can you please claim if you are either a Jailkeepr or a Rolecop, the town has agreed this is the optimal move.

DO NOT claim if you are a Doc or a Cop
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #289 (isolation #45) » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:57 pm

Post by Seacore »

Sigh, Gittah, yes it was a cheap move by me, but by spelling it out you've removed any chance that the other replacement will fall for it.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #295 (isolation #46) » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:58 pm

Post by Seacore »

Yeah, I deliberately left the scum chosing to not NK off my list because I was hoping the scum would do that. It's actually to our benefit as outlined above.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #298 (isolation #47) » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:48 pm

Post by Seacore »

No Arinna, the plan takes into account the JK dying tonight. It still results in us having a huge advantage. In the case that there is a Cop or Doc on top of the JK means we have an autowin.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #310 (isolation #48) » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:27 am

Post by Seacore »

I'm probably leaning towards lynching Giitah today, his play has not undone what the two previous slot holders have done, whereas Regfan has taken some steps to undo kalbim's terribleness.

That being said, neither are going to survive to lylo.

I'm going to assume that Magic Trainer is the last possibility for a JK, since everybody else has agreed enough with the plan and hasn't claimed.

Which is a shame, we go from a 1:1 chance of having two PRs to a 1:2
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #317 (isolation #49) » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:05 am

Post by Seacore »

Vote giitah. Regfan must die before lylo, and but not today.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #325 (isolation #50) » Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:16 pm

Post by Seacore »

Ugh, Wombat. Awesome work. If MT was softclaiming, why the hell would you draw attention to it? If you see a soft claim, leave it alone until it becomes relevant. Like if Regfan was at L-1, then you bring it up.

Vote Gittah
I meant to do it before, I just didn't bold it for some reason.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #331 (isolation #51) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:23 am

Post by Seacore »

letting him claim would be a good idea.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #338 (isolation #52) » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:54 pm

Post by Seacore »

nice and perfect game people.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #348 (isolation #53) » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:14 am

Post by Seacore »

Good job guys.
Thanks to Reg for joining and saving his slot from a mislynch.
Giitah, you did what you could, if you'd claimed cop instead of doc, you might have survived a little longer, but Magic's potential soft claim probably worried you.
Arinna, have a bit more confidence and be willing to take a stance you might have to go back on later, but good job.
Hyperion, truly strong play, not much more to say.
Wombat, good play, but you were better at looking town than finding scum. But that's an important first step. Don't draw attention to a possible soft claim though, it might have been bad bread crumbling, and we might have got lucky and had scum miss it.

All town should save this game and read over it when they next draw a scum PM. Try to mimic this behaviour.
User avatar
Seacore
Seacore
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Seacore
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3109
Joined: November 4, 2009
Location: Australia, UCT+10

Post Post #354 (isolation #54) » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:25 pm

Post by Seacore »

Regfan's behaviour is also a perfect example of what to do when you replace into a suspicious slot. Don't try and save yourself, try to save the game. If the scum was somebody like Hyperion, then Regfan would have almost certainly died before Lylo, and he didn't try to stop that, he just tried to make sure the game was better for him having replaced him.

LC was actually a slight scum read for me, so focusing on MT might have helped. But Giitah, you did well with what you had.

Return to “Completed Newbie Games”