Newbie 1379 (Game Over)

[goodmorning]

Hello all, I am your lovely IC. As Messiah mentioned (post 0) I am expected to help you learn to play the game, particularly in the context of this forum. Towards the pursuit of that goal, I will answer all your theory questions truthfully.

That's right,

I will not lie to you

about theory.

Now, you may be thinking "no fair, she's got more experience, clearly she will pwn newbs". That's only somewhat true. Some newbies have played many a game of Mafia elsewhere. Besides this, experience counts against me as well: you all are able to look up my past games and see how I've played in them. I can't because most of you don't have any. So it's a fairly even split.

Some helpful Wiki pages:
Quick Guide to Mafia
Quick Guide to Mafiascum
A Beginner's Guide to Being Awesome At Mafia

And some terms:
Glossary
Commonly Used Abbreviations

My personal advice to you, regardless of your alignment:
1. Try hard to look Town.
2. Content is key. If you active lurk you will be lynched.
3. Realize that there are people who will disagree with you. Realize that they may be right.
4. Keep in mind that this is a game. If it's going to stress you out too much, breathe. Maybe even replace out. There are other games that won't give you ulcers.
5. Everyone will get lynched at some point if they keep playing Mafia here. Don't only replace out because you're a sore dier.
6. Always be cordial. Nothing is gained from ad hominem.
7. Remember, kids: HAVE FUN

Vote: EEEEEEEEEE(dosurist)

NEVER WILL I FORGET

[goodmorning]

I also want to get this out now so as not to interrupt gameplay:

HELPFUL TAG TIME

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[post]0[/post]

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0
and link you to that post.

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[url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28585&p=4976166#p4976166]Newbie 1379[/url]

will look like
Newbie 1379
And link you to that url (this one is this game).

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[spoiler]OH NO WHAT IS HAPPENING[/spoiler]

will look like

OH NO WHAT IS HAPPENING

(highlight to read).

@Mod: What is your policy on spoilering long wall posts?

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[spoiler=A SPOILER??]IT IS[/spoiler]

which looks like

Spoiler: A SPOILER??

IT IS

Some mods are fine with spoilering of REALLY BIG WALLS O' TEXT. We shall see what Messiah's policy is.

[goodmorning]

EBWOTP: Looks like Future is the one we'll be waiting on...

[goodmorning]

So we are not told which setup has been chosen for this game?

Correct. All most of the players know is that it is one of those 6. The PRs and Mafia will be able to narrow it down a bit though.

Speaking of PRs: If you are one, please don't go claiming randomly. That's not optimal play.

Oh, and hey everyone.

's my first game, hope I don't screw up too bad.

You'll be alright. First game ever? Or first game on the internet? Or just first game on this forum?

And no random vote? Any reason?

[goodmorning]

Also, what does EBWOTP mean? And should I bold votes or anything? I've seen in some games I've been reading that votes are highlighted in white?

EBWOTP: edit by way of triple post
Should you bold votes? It's a good habit to have, since most mods require it. The votes highlighted in white are from the vote tags, which are an equally good habit to get into (I personally prefer plain bold, but that's just me):

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[vote]Edosurist[/vote]

looks like
VOTE: Edosurist

[goodmorning]

By all means. I have no particular preference as long as it's evident it's me.

[goodmorning]

WHOA WHOA HEY

Vote: Future

Coaching much?

Some questions to get started, perhaps?

An advance warning: some people hate RQS. My personal feelings towards it are within ambivalent range.

1. Have you ever played an offsite game before?

Yes, both on another site and in MeatWorld.

2. What are your first impressions of the site?

My first impressions of the site ranged from awed to terrified to really excited.

3. What's your first language?

English. It is also the only language I know more than a few words of.

4. Are you scum? *cough i'mageniusiknow cough*

I thought we already went over that in QT... ;n;


For the record, it's normal for some people to only be on once a day. I personally am on relatively frequently but never for very long.

[goodmorning]

"Coaching" is the act of one scumpartner encouraging or explaining to the other(s). Why so eager to explain it away? Nervous?

[goodmorning]

I'm guessing "EBWODP" is Edit by Way of Double Post?

Yes.

@Ant: Why are you so sure we're still in RVS?

[goodmorning]

Why so quick to answer?

[goodmorning]

But I'd put up an SEP field over that question...

[goodmorning]

But what if you ruined my plans?

[goodmorning]

They were GOOOOOOOOOOOD
Anyways, you didn't actually ruin anything. I still want Antagon to answer though.

[goodmorning]

Why coach someone and vote them? So it doesn't look like you're coaching them.

I will be rather pleased when Future answers.

[goodmorning]

Distancing happens.

[goodmorning]

In the mean time, what would either of you suggest we do to pass the time/get reads?

Talking. Lots of talking. It should pick up when everyone gets actively posting.

[goodmorning]

If you press the preview button before you hit the submit button and scroll up that might be helpful to you.

[goodmorning]

There is nothing to explain. I voted Saki as part of RVS.

This is the correct answer.

Vote: manilai

Where are youuuuuu

I'd like to point out that "aggressively grasping at straws" is a pretty decent way of making the game happen.

[goodmorning]

@Saki: Not at all. Previous games won't affect what role I got this time.
And also, I would not be such an idiot to claim rolecop so early this game (with no reports and an easy target for mafia)

And also you'd not be such an idiot as to claim rolecop since there is no Town Rolecop in these setups.
I am officially getting a strange vibe.

UNVOTE: Slyther
Not too suspicious now.

Is there someone you do find suspicious?

[goodmorning]

@Mod: What is your policy on spoilering long wall posts?

I allow it.

WOO!

Getting weird vibes from goodmorning and Doctor Pepper¹, officially. Maybe this is goodmorning's style², but I've never played a game with him (obviously)...while being aggressive early does get the game started, that's also not a towntell³. Hiding behind aggressive questioning is a good way to avoid questioning yourself⁴, but when the questions are flimsy⁵ it comes off feeling like phony hunting.⁶

Several questions and comments here:
1. Why mention Dr P if you were only going to give reasoning on me?
2. Sometimes it's my style.
3. True. It is a Null-tell.
4. I actually really like being questioned. My specialty is refutation.
5. Did you expect a better line of questioning sprouting out of page one?
6. Why so defensive?

Why do you want my opinion so much?

Because you hadn't given it.

GM is very aggressive, I'd say GM 'aggroed' onto the first thing GM could and wants to get someone lynched ASAP--more scum than town.

I certainly don't want to quicklynch anyone. I want us catapulted into the exciting part of the game, where everyone's accusing everyone else.

Future voted for me

LOLOMGUS

I town read Diplomat for unvoting. If he kept his vote, it would have been opportunistic scum, however him realizing the possibility of blitz reads townish to me

QFT
Could be a faked Towntell, but not likely.

I like Dr P already too. YESSSSS EARLY TOWNBLOC POWERS ACTIVATE

Vote: Future

[goodmorning]

You call that a megapost? lol

Why do you think Saki is confused stressed newbTown as opposed to confused stressed newbScum?

[goodmorning]

I now think you're town and you've stepped up as somewhat of a leader.

...What?

You guys will probably buy Antagon-scum more than DP-scum at this point, I think.

I find that your points on Dr P are rather more valid than your points on Ant, not because the points on Ant are bad but because they are misapplied.
It's interesting. I'm comfortable with my vote where it is for now though.

[goodmorning]

Plus, an L-1 wagon on page 4 is obviously not ideal, which you know as town and scum. So, you push the wagon verbally but not with your actions. Do you see what I mean?

Why would his pushing the wagon without voting be a scumtell for you when you acknowledge here that Town could do it too?

[goodmorning]

Goodmorning, you're misunderstanding me. I'm acknowledging that creating an L-1 wagon on page 4 is clearly scummy, and Antagon obviously knows that. Therefore, he wouldn't do it himself, but he would be okay pushing the wagon until somebody

else

does it.

You also acknowledged that Town would have reasons to push the wagon but not vote. If I were a townie with a scumread on Saki, I would have said so but not voted him (unless I knew there wouldn't be a derphammer).

[goodmorning]

But Saki was pretty blatantly newbtown. That's the point - the scum read itself was the scummy thing to have.

I disagree on your "blatant newbTown" read. There aren't any tells (IMO) that go beyond newb to an actual alignment.

If you had to pick one, gun to your head, who would it be?

This does not give me the best feels, but it's not necessarily an objective tell.

I'll be your temporary mod for the time being until he comes back.

<3 Mala

Everyone who isn't voting should be voting.

This is blatant towncred fishing.

[goodmorning]

I was on an impromptu vacation. I returned from my grandmother's house a bare hour ago.

[goodmorning]

Also I've been seriously voting Future since I reaffirmed my vote.

[goodmorning]

It was something of a carry over but became fairly serious around 99.

I'll definitely say that I personally don't think that sort of inactivity is indicative of alignment.

[goodmorning]

While I'm glad you seem to be backing me up, the question becomes this:
Have you got a bit behind on the thread or are you parroting me for some other reason?

[goodmorning]

What brought that on?

[goodmorning]

I think there are more pressing issues than an inactive slot, personally, besides which the replacement is likely to comport him or her self as a replacement should regardless of external goads.

What surprised me more than the vote was you trying to somehow put some of the burden on Future. Since he hadn't posted since your last post I was wondering what precisely he could have done to suddenly make you vote. This is interesting.

[goodmorning]

While rereading, I saw the whole "Everyone must vote. Otherwise, you're useless." stance that Future is taking.

Why did this make you want to vote?

I should very much like to know where EEEEEEEE has gone.

[goodmorning]

This is entirely personally biased, but in my opinion you don't have a stance in this game until you vote and not doing that is detrimental to the town's ultimate goal. Goodmorning, as an IC you should have something to say on this one besides it being "blatant towncred fishing," which I am happy to let people call it as long as the message gets through.

Honestly when you attack people for their playstyles that pretty much is blatant towncred fishing.

Also stop exhorting me to do stuff, I DO WHAT I WANT

And just

talking

about those opinions doesn't? Why is it necessary to vote if you don't feel comfortable lynching someone yet?

I'd personally point out here that voting =/= lynching. Talking about it before you vote, however, is a valid playstyle whether or not I or anyone else agrees.

RVS ends at different times for different people.

I keep forgetting to say this, so thanks for that

BUT not enough substance, I expect more from you.

[goodmorning]

BUT not enough substance, I expect more from you.

Yah, yah, I have two games I have to catch up on. Give me a break

HEY WHOA
You're getting there, if you'd stopped at the first one I'd have been a bit tetchy but I'm pretty glad you're all up in this now.

I'm gonna go out on an extremely sturdy limb here and say I'm pretty comfortable thinking of you as Town.

[goodmorning]

I kinda understand where you and DDC are coming from but I don't think bad play justifies a vote unless it's a 'policy lynch' but I read that you don't really want those too early in the game.

Technically policy lynches are better in early game if you're going to do them at all, but most policy lynches are for crap reasons and policy lynching you for being a newb is out of the question because that's the whole point of this game.

I kinda understand where you and DDC are coming from but I don't think bad play justifies a vote unless it's a 'policy lynch' but I read that you don't really want those too early in the game.

Bad play? I know not all bad plays would mean scum, but wouldn't most people vote if there's a slip?

Bad play like not being very good, not bad play like not being very Town.

By the way honestly I think I'm feeling lost here. Could someone give me a point that you would like me to answer to create discussion?

Yes, please come up with a reads list. Give us at least your top two scumreads and a little bit of evidence to back it up.

[goodmorning]

Interesting timing there.

[goodmorning]

I'd be fine lynching Diplomat though.

Why?

[goodmorning]

Considering all players are active at the moment, a derphammer's not really that likely. I can understand the reasoning though.

Basic readslist

Town

notscience - this guy has literally everything: coherent and transparent reads which have been reasoned out extensively
EEEE - this guy is not playing to his scum meta
Slyther - this guy screams newbtown: his interest feels real, his questions get followed up on, if he's not town he's doing a very good job

Null

DDC - this guy seems town but has one or two posts that made me uneasy
Saki - this guy is a newb; hasn't dropped any real alignment tells though IMO
Ant - this guy is probably only in this spot because I'm paranoid

Null

Dr P - this guy has been champion dodging shit
Future - this guy is pretty scummy for reasons that have already been brought up, starting from the beginning

Scum

[goodmorning]

What's a policy lynch by the way?

It'a a lynch that's usually not based in the game but rather in conditions outside of it. "Lynch all Lurkers" is an example, as is basically any other lynch where somebody says "this person usually does such-and-such thing that I think is anti-Town. Whether or not they have done or will do it in this game, we should lynch them anyways."

[goodmorning]

Sorry, but no. Town is never willing to get lynched. Doing that is tantamount to lynching confirmed town (after all, you are confirmed town to yourself).
As town, self-hammering or having a defeatist attitude is the worst thing you could do.
As scum, willing to be lynched can only be justified to deny town information.

Welllllllll, never say never. I self-hammered once to prevent a no-lynch at deadline, providing valuable information to my fellow townies.

Nah, but seriously, I don't think there are hard and fast rules to this whole mafia thing. Like I said, I'm down to get lynched ASAP if it means that we'll move forward with this whole thing. As far as I can tell, as long as I'm here I'm a distraction to the players looking for scum, considering as I've done some things that some of you find suspicious (and it can't all be people who are scum - there's just too many of you!). That's not something I want to be. As long as I'm here, someone will be able to make a somewhat convincing case (to this town, at least) regarding my scumminess, and that's just gonna get in the way, considering I'm town and all.

THIS IS REALLY BORING, SORRY
YOU GOTTA FIGHT
FOR YOUR RIGHT
I mean, nobody ever wrote about a guy who's just ho-hum, they write about the dude who fought and fought til the end.
Better to die on one's feet, right?

You still call yourself Town wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too often BUT
In other news, I find your sudden suspicion of me flattering.

Unvote

I am curious.

btw, would regurgitating what someone else said be a null-tell?

YMMV: It depends on the player, but can often be a scumtell if in conjunction with other scummy actions from a slot.

Also, what have I dodged?

Other than

literally everything

?
I'll point a few things out in the morning.

[goodmorning]

Sorry, but no. Town is never willing to get lynched. Doing that is tantamount to lynching confirmed town (after all, you are confirmed town to yourself).
As town, self-hammering or having a defeatist attitude is the worst thing you could do.
As scum, willing to be lynched can only be justified to deny town information.

Welllllllll, never say never. I self-hammered once to prevent a no-lynch at deadline, providing valuable information to my fellow townies.

Correction then.

Self-hammering as town is always bad unless not hammering would lead to a no-lynch.

And even that's generally frowned upon. goodmorning, could you give me a link to that game?

It was

that kind of game

, if you know what I mean.
Here.

GM, why the sudden unvote of Future when he stated intent to be lynched?

Also, enlighten me on what I dodged, I do not see it

Both of these stand a good chance of being answered at a time that is not now.

[goodmorning]

Technically the chainsaw defense is when any player defends another by attacking their detractors, but I don't really see that here anyways.
The old version of the chainsaw defense refers to claiming an innocent role that investigates guilty.

@Saki: Antagon's reaction I think could go either way but is definitely interesting.
Your case on Dr P is pretty basic and hinges on the dodging thing but is pretty solid because dodging tends to be a scumtell unless someone's trying to work a reaction test or something. That said, I don't think so much that he's been avoiding interactions necessarily so much as he has avoided commenting on all but the most obvious occurrences in the game.

@Future: Nothing at all on 271? Interesting.

[goodmorning]

^I think the spaces broke your links.

[goodmorning]

Its only until 79 where GM actually starts to make relevant posts.¹ A bulk of the posts before that involved accusations of coaching, which barely make any sense¹ considering it was an off hand RVS remark¹ which barely counts² as coaching³. Funny thing is, its what spurred her tunneling of her main scum read, Future.⁴ The other part is IC explanation play. Funny thing, why would it strike you as strange when DDC said he played rolecop once, when this set up has no rolecop?⁵

Her whole "there arent any tells that go beyond newb to an actual alignment" in 133 seems logical at first. Then later she contradicts herself by saying in her reads that Slyther is "screaming newbtown".⁶

116 is worded quite awkwardly. "if I were a townie with a scum read on Saki"? Very odd emphasis on "if I were a townie". So, youre not a townie?⁷

I dont quite get how she made her read list.⁸ As I've stated she says Slyther is screaming newb town, while saying Saki is null because "this guy is a newb, hasnt dropped any real alignment tells".⁹ No explanation for The Antagon read.¹⁰ The Edos read makes no sense.¹ If a player has a known "scum meta", wouldnt said player avoid exhibiting traits from said playstyle?¹¹ Its like a read list for the sake of having a read list.¹

Again, I ask, what exactly about Future's willingness to be lynched made¹²

How is attacking players for playstyle "blatant townfishing cred" ?¹³

That being said, her case on Future makes the most sense out of all the cases on Future,¹⁴ such as the questioning of the holes in logic like in 107 by calling Future out for perceived scum tells, which players of both alignments actually do.

In any case, aside from that 116, Im comfortable putting her at null-leaning town to town. She does comment on most of the things happening here, her caseslook solid and they look like theyre legit scumhunting.¹⁵

1. Says you.
2. How do you quantify "barely counting" here?
3. Plus, doesn't even something that "barely counts" still count? So aren't you admitting that my accusations were at least slightly sound?
4. Funny?
5. It doesn't strike you as strange when someone goes out of their way to tell you they've been Scum before?
6. I said there weren't any alignment tells

from Saki

, though I could have worded that sentence much more clearly. Slyther is indeed screaming newbTown.
7. Sentence is intended to be read without emphasis. Indeed, at present I am not a townie with a scumread on Saki.
8. Off the top of my head.
9. The point?
10. On the contrary, stated reason is paranoia.
11. You'll begin to see that there are some things players just can't help displaying as certain alignments, particularly if you play an anon-alt game like Author Mafia.
12. Curious to see the end of this sentence.
13. It's not so much that he was attacking them for playstyle, it's that he was attacking them for not voting (which is largely a playstyle issue) in order to look like do-something Town.
14. I'm flattered. Interesting that you failed to mention my continued lack of answers to you.
15. Interesting.

Not much to say, GM.

Really? Why not?

[goodmorning]

Also your links are still broken. It's because you're putting spaces inside the tags.

Incorrect:

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[post] 71 [/post]

Correct:

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[post]71[/post]

[goodmorning]

Welllllllll, never say never. I self-hammered once to prevent a no-lynch at deadline, providing valuable information to my fellow townies.

Correction then.

Self-hammering as town is always bad unless not hammering would lead to a no-lynch.

And even that's generally frowned upon. goodmorning, could you give me a link to that game?

goodmorning, have you seen this yet?

I supplied said link in 276.

[goodmorning]

Who do you think is a stronger lynch atm, DP or Future?

Define "stronger lynch".

[goodmorning]

Who do you think is a stronger lynch atm, DP or Future?

Define "stronger lynch".

I'll split it into two parts.

Provide more info

Chance to be scum

More info:
Future - has seemed scummy for a while for all the reasons I've already pointed out BUT at a (very far) stretch he could just be derpTown, as his giving up would lightly suggest (to me) and also his vague sort of non-collected attack on me. I have been known to senselessly tunnel when I shouldn't. With that in mind I kinda want to see him live til tomorrow. But only if he starts fighting, otherwise it's a pointless endeavour.
Dr P - I personally would kind of prefer his lynch over Future's at this point; his recent posts have been somewhat townish just for the reasoning going into them BUT is that enough to overshadow his completely scummy prior play? It kind of is, since I had him pegged as Town early on, but yeah, better lynch than Future at any rate.

Chance to be Scum:
literally 2/9 for each. If you're asking my personal thoughts, the answer is I don't know. I'm going to do a reread ASAP and figure out who the fuck I actually want to vote.

230 also kind of rubs me the wrong way with Edosurist's read. I don't disagree that he's not town, but I find it weird that she's using meta reads solely as her reason.

He doesn't really have that many posts to go off, and I caught on that he was Scum fairly easily in the game I linked you. I feel reasonably comfortable calling him Town based on meta alone for the moment.

Reread ahoy.

[goodmorning]

12. What about Future's willingness to be lycnhed led to the unvote?

Nothing. That's not why I unvoted.

14. Dont understand, please restate.

I have thus far failed to answer a couple of your questions. I don't know why you didn't bring that up.

[goodmorning]

@Saki: That's a matter of playstyle; I personally tend to give preferential treatment to my town games.

[goodmorning]

EEEE - this guy is not playing to his scum meta

can you describe his scum meta

Not really.

In other news, I'll be V/LA til Wednesday.

[goodmorning]

Because that's not how I do meta. I can attempt to figure out what precisely it is that strikes me as different if you like, but for the most part I just get playstyles in my head and compare them.

I am aware that it sounds silly, but it tends to work for me.

[goodmorning]

Vote: notscience

[goodmorning]

Two days is rather a lot of time.

My preferred lynch at the moment is now mr b.

@Everyone:

If you are willing to vote mr b then please indicate said willingness.

For now, since it is around compromise time,

Vote: Dr P

[goodmorning]

I think that may be L-1.

[goodmorning]

Why do you think Saki is obvTown?

[goodmorning]

Alright, so didn't have time for actual reread, but people to take a closer look at tomorrow in case I don't survive:

mr b and antagon

[goodmorning]

Well, looks like Scum to me. Town would probably go OH SHIT I'M DEAD FUCK YOU GUYS but look at xyz tomorrow.

[goodmorning]

EBWODP: From the capslock to the end should be in quotes.

[goodmorning]

ffffffffffffffff! So glad to see you here!

there are people playing this game who can sort me if they put their mind to it.

Am... I one of those? Because I think I could be but I'm not sure since I haven't had a game with Scum!you yet.

Also HOLY SHIT I'M ALIVE
ANOMALY

From what I read back on I feel a bit better about mr b so can let that go for now.
I'll still be looking at Antagon (eventually).

For now I'd like everyone to ponder BUT NOT ANSWER:
Did the Scum no-kill, aim at the bulletproof, get jailed, get the target jailed, or did the doc correctly save the target? Because one of these must be correct.

[goodmorning]

Addressing potential associative tells of Dr P:
Saki:

I dont like Saki's reason for why everyone is scum.
a) lurking is not just "not posting", lurking is having read the thread but not spoken about it, you can see this if alayer posts in other forums or is online, you can see if they are online on the bottom of the page.
b) his reason for why future is scum is OMGUS (an Oh My God You Suck vote is basically voting for someone else because they voted for you and no other reason), but this is more of a null tell.
c) says Edo or GM is scum, but votes manilai. Uhm, im guessing manilai hasnt even read this thread yet, so a vote does nothing
d) says GM is scum for being aggressive, in a game where one needs to hunt scum.
e) how are Slyther's questions "obviously done to uncover roles" ?

Most likely not Scum together.

DDC/mr b:

I town read Diplomat for unvoting. If he kept his vote, it would have been opportunistic scum, however him realizing the possibility of blitz reads townish to me

Potentially partners.

Future:

Future, your points on me are weak.
1. My reasons for voting Saki was way more than "OMG OMGUS, DIE SCUM!" Because a) OMGUS is a null tell and I've mentioned that b) my other reasons are better reasons for Voting Saki. Saying the only thing I did was jump on an easy wagon because "OMGUS" is a misrepresentation of my arguments. Misrep is scummy.
2. Im scum for having town reads? Lmao. By that logic everyone who town reads is scum. Its important to see town reads as well as scum reads in games at mafia scum. It eliminates scum options from your point of view. Ironically enough, you town read GoodMorning as well so that makes 0 sense if you call me scum for it.

Could go either way, but leans to the negative for me.

Antagon:

Antagon basically stated the possibility of Saki being newbtown. No certainty of scum on his post.

Potentially partners.

Slyther/fffff:

Exactly what points did I dodge? The points I answered before you said I was "so defensive" ? I dont get where you are coming from here Slyther.

Theres little substance in this game honestly, I do notice that Slyther's mind keeps changing constantly, first he agree with future, then later votes for him?

Possible, but pretty unlikely.

notscience:

Oh notscience, we meet again. Tell me exactly how Im being so defensive and that I have NEVER done anything to scumhunt. I feel like notscience is kinda concerned about the votes on his slot. Yes, voting a player who has done nothing is a way to look like youre doing something when youre actually doing jackshit. However, I agree with Antagon, voting the slot itself pressures the slot into participating. The difference is, the slot is the target, not the person, not looking for an easy lynch. The thing is, notscience is overreacting to the votes on the slot.

That's a lot of words to waste. Looks unlikely, but then again it could be bussing since this is the most Dr P really said at once about anyone.

Edosurist:
Not a whole lot, but then again he's not posted a whole lot, so...

AND SPECIAL BONUS, MYSELF:

I feel like goodmorning is making a mountain out of a molehill here, that sounded more of a reason for RVS rather than coaching. The have confidence with yiurself thing was more of addressing how Saki (correct me if I'm wrong) first post, it sounded kinda timid.

IMO this makes us slightly less likely to be partners though that is my opinion of it and therefore you should compare this shit yourself instead of relying on me to do it for you.

And this isn't even into those ISO posts.
But basically I am of the opinion that if we lynch {Antagon, Edosurist, mrbungle} in that order then this game will be a Town win for sure.

Speaking of which:

Vote: Antagon

[goodmorning]

it bothered me that he stuck with Future to the end. When I read through the game right after nightfall that bandwagon being so close made no sense at all to me. I know Edos is a good player. But...15 posts. I think I spent about an hour going through the thread. Which is a little longer than it usually takes me to catch up on a game this long, and I found myself disagreeing with several of his posts.

you hae a better sense of how the game unfolded in real time.

A lot of his thought process at the time was similar to what I was thinking but hadn't put down in thread. Added to my gutmeta read of him, I'm inclined to think he's town but am not very confident in that.

[goodmorning]

TBF it is a lot more convincing when it's your own mind being read.

[goodmorning]

So, I have a proposition. Seeing as there is 1 scum left, as well as NO nightkill I propose we have any roleblock/protectors claim and say who they targetted, in an attempt to clean/find the last scum.

If you agree, say yes. If not, No.

Normally I'd say that's a terrible idea, but here it isn't that bad seeing as there's only one scum left. A no-kill last night would have been dreadfully suboptimal, so
YES, I AGREE.
As a matter of fact it would probably be best to just out-and-out massclaim, but if we do that I think we can all agree that EEEE or Ant should start it off.

(The one caveat to just the RB/protect role claiming would of course be that if it's a Doc that's unhelpful on a number of levels, which is why massclaim.)
(And that's not even going into a two-RB/P roles in the setup option, because it's still good odds)

[goodmorning]

PS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCQ7VLoY7bQ

You sassy bastard, how did you know I find the Hives entertaining?

@Saki: Little of 467 makes sense. I may come back to this later if meed be, but the most glaring error is your assumption that if there was a kill, but it didn't happen, that it must have been the work of a Jailkeeper. Especially as I pointed out all five options here:

For now I'd like everyone to ponder BUT NOT ANSWER:
Did the Scum no-kill¹, aim at the bulletproof², get jailed³, get the target jailed⁴, or did the doc correctly save the target⁵? Because one of these must be correct.

To analyze each of these options FMPOV:
1a. If the Scum deliberately no-killed, that would point to someone who is relatively recent to the site as it would be considered suboptimal play by a majority here. That would mean a newbie (Future or Saki).
1b. If the Scum accidentally no-killed, it could be because of several reasons:

• That they did not correctly submit the kill (implies newbie, Future or Saki)
  
• That they assumed a kill had already been submitted but it hadn't (implies fferyllt)
  
• That they were not online to submit a kill (somewhat implies Edosurist)

2. If the Scum aimed at the Bulletproof, this gives us no information unless a Bulletproof is outed (this could tell us the killer's character).
3. If the Scum got jailkept, this gives us no information unless a Jailkeeper is outed and outs his/her target (this could also have been the intended victim).
4. If the victim got jailkept, this gives us no information unless a Jailkeeper is outed and outs his/her target (this could also be Scum).
5. If the victim got saved by the Doctor, this gives us no information unless a Doctor is outed and outs his/her target (this could tell us the killer's character).

[goodmorning]

@ff: That is true.
In any case I am of the opinion that scenario one is unlikely.

Which means I am doing this in my head:

• 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 1-Shot Town Bulletproof, 1 Town Jailkeeper, 5 Vanilla Townies
  
  2 Mafia Goons, 1 Town Cop, 6 Vanilla Townies
  
  2 Mafia Goons, 1 Town Doctor, 1 Town Tracker, 5 Vanilla Townies
  2 Mafia Goons, 1 Town Jailkeeper, 6 Vanilla Townies
  1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor, 5 Vanilla Townies
  2 Mafia Goons, 1 1-Shot Town Bulletproof, 1 Town Tracker, 5 Vanilla Townies

[goodmorning]

Future has already claimed Vt, so unless he'd like to rescind that it's best to choose yet another person. That said, I don't really think we should skip EEEEEE; he's scummy and we can afford to wait a little while.

Why popcorn to someone you think is obvTown besides?

[goodmorning]

^Except if he is Scum he'll know what he can't claim, defeating the purpose of massclaiming.

That said, I've been popcorned to fair-ish and square-ish.
I am the Tracker. I crumbed it in my first post:

1.

T

ry hard to look Town.
2.

C

ontent is key. If you active lurk you will be lynched.
3.

R

ealize that there are people who will disagree with you. Realize that they may be right.
4.

K

eep in mind that this is a game. If it's going to stress you out too much, breathe. Maybe even replace out. There are other games that won't give you ulcers.
5.

E

veryone will get lynched at some point if they keep playing Mafia here. Don't only replace out because you're a sore dier.
6.

A

lways be cordial. Nothing is gained from ad hominem.
7.

R

emember, kids: HAVE FUN

TCRKEAR is, of course, TRACKER scrambled.

I crumbed my result from last night in my first post of the day:

I feel a bit better about mr b so can let that go for now.

Last night I tracked mrbungle. He didn't do anything.

With that, there's no real need to do any more popcorning since this is an open setup:
IF YOU ARE THE OTHER PR, CLAIM NOW.

[goodmorning]

I think the other way around, but I'm not unwilling to compromise.

[goodmorning]

Okey dokey.

Vote: Antagon

[goodmorning]

For the record, mr b is only

probably

cleared by my track, unless notscience was informed of being shot and I missed all mentions of that?

[goodmorning]

SLIMEY <3

Maybe GM is being all fakeclaimy, but doubt that's the case.

Considering pretty much everyone has posted since my claim and I haven't been CC'd...

For the record, mr b is only

probably

cleared by my track, unless notscience was informed of being shot and I missed all mentions of that?

mrbungle is cleared unless scum felt the need to WIFOM and no-kill.
Because the only way a kill could be stopped is if the kill targets the 1-shot BP.

My point was that if notscience knew he was shot and shared this with us then obviously a kill would have been performed and mr b would have been 100% cleared by virtue of his having sat on his ass.

Oh, and I'm not dead because you forgot you were already voting me before your

"hammer."

I was wondering when someone would figure it out. Not really any need for a fakehammer this game, but I like doing them and it's a good example of a play that might be used for the newbs to see.

[goodmorning]

If there were still two scums left I would be giving Future the side-eye SO HARD for 531.

[goodmorning]

Oh I claimed already? And I've used my ability? That would have been nice to know in my role pm e.e

You have claimed, and your ability is best presumed used seeing as there was no kill last night.

[goodmorning]

Activity? A lynch? Something?

[goodmorning]

I mean, we can, but if we lynch Ant then it shouldn't really matter?

[goodmorning]

At any rate there should at least be some discussion. I'd like slimey to say something useful.

[goodmorning]

I don't know if I really understand why it matters. Perfection is quite a concept.

[goodmorning]

V/LA til Monday at the latest.

[goodmorning]

"Correct" is a strong word, and this is Ant claiming Scum. Can we lynch him now and just get it over with?

[goodmorning]

If anyone wants some sort of IC post-game thing you're welcome to request one.

In the meantime I AM SO GLAD THAT'S DONE

ZAI IS A GOOD MOD AND STUFF EVEN IF HE DID FORGET TO SEND ME THE DEAD QT

NOT ENOUGH CAPSLOCK IN THIS GAME

[goodmorning]

what's an IC post-game thing

I sort of sum up stuff that I can think of as far as things people did well or could have done better. I'm not that great at it.

yes please GM

Ah, D1 was ages ago. The main thing with you was just that you started caring a bit too late. When you did start it was fantastic, you almost had me convinced for half a second with those ISOs. If you'd done earlier I think you'd have been lynched later, meaning I couldn't have "cleared" mr b with the track as you'd still have been alive.
I think you'd have been lynched eventually though due to the way some of your earliest posts were just so blatantly scummy, but I don't actually remember how.
tl;dr - You know what you did, and I doubt you'll do it much again, though maybe you will because I seem to always make the same mistakes as Scum.

@ns: You were quite good though and I think you know it. Don't see flips prematurely next time? That's all I've got anyway.

[goodmorning]

I'd also like some feedback of my performance on D3, i'm not that good with the scum role yet

Yeah, considering you were almost definitely going to be the next lynch you did quite well, even thought I saw fferyllt waver for a moment there.
I can't really say I noticed anything you could have done differently, though being dead may have hampered my ability to notice those sorts of things.
But yeah, overall a respectable showing from you.

[goodmorning]

I want one

For you, the biggest thing is to double check your posts for coherence. Do they make sense? Are they going to look paranoid? Do you have real evidence or is it confirmation bias?
Basically sometimes I felt like you weren't getting your point across.

Other than that you did quite well for a first game, some decent points and your scumhunting got across even when your points didn't.