Newbie 1424 (Game Over)

[Gravity]

VOTE: Poppedeye

That avatar is creepy and is making me feel very uneasy in my first game.

[Gravity]

lexyclaire and Gravity, why the rush to bandwagon me? This is my first game, too.

Fegelein was quick to point out my name/avatar combination. He probably guessed its oddness could distract from scumhunting.

No rush, it's just the best thing I have to go off right now as a confused newbie.

[Gravity]

Vote Gravity

I can't allow you to justify your actions by using the newbie get-out clause. "Confused newbie"? Please.

I just don't really know what to do yet and that's where I personally feel I'm comfortable with my vote for now. I'm just trying to get to grips with the game and contribute when I can, sorry if it's coming across in a bad way.

[Gravity]

Why would I be panicking with 1 Vote on me? It takes 5 to lynch. I'm obviously going to feel a little uneasy, but I'm not panicking.

[Gravity]

Here's an article about the differences between other sites and mafia scum:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30203

Thanks, I'll take a look. It's only natural for me to feel a bit uneasy if there is votes on me, but I know that things will develop as the game goes on and more people start to post.

[Gravity]

Thanks for the advice Amrun. I'll have a read. Might give me a better idea of stuff. I'm glad these Newbie games have someone to help along.

[Gravity]

My vote was just random Poppedeye, it was never intended to be taken as a serious vote. I was looking for a way to contribute when I entered the thread and immediately noticed your Avatar/Name combination and it was the best way for me to vote someone at that time and contribute to the thread.

[Gravity]

Grimgroove:

First point of focus: Gravity. His post 15 opened up the game, by making alarm bells ring all over the place.
And through association (though, granted, it is very early for that): CplHenderson.

ISO of Gravity. The bolded stuff is an element that returns in nearly every post of his: he's feeling uneasy in this topic and he cannot hide it or does not want to hide it. Now, I try to put myself in the position of a newbie, and while it's true that there's I guess a certain sense of adventure when trying this game out, I don't see why there's a need to feel uneasy. Unless, you're scum and you must hide something in your underwear, making it very uncomfortable to sit.
Look at his posts:

Why wouldn't there be a need to feel uneasy? You have to watch everything you say and I learned that pretty quickly. In Post 15, I obviously made a mistake and that became apparent when people were pointing it out. I didn't see the problem with the post when I first posted it, but people started looking at it. I felt like I was backed in a corner a little bit. 'Confused Newbie' was probably not the best wording to use, but that's generally how I feel, I'm still picking up on things and learning. That was only my second post in the game. The vote itself was just a random vote by me and I probably shouldn't have tried to justify it because that's all it was, just a random and silly vote and way for me to introduce myself sort of.

+ the info this is "his first game". Already here he's trying to exploit his newbishness.

I can completely see why it would seem that way, but I'm not exploiting my newbieness at all. I really want to contribute, but after the mistake I made, It sort of made me step back and realize that I should probably watch what I say as it makes me look like I'm scum, when I'm not.

Even though he's saying that he's comfortable with the vote where it is, this is obviously not the case, as is evident by the bolded part and the quotes mentioned before. He lies about his feelings.

Correct I do, I was anxious, I just started out and BAM a vote was on me. I didn't know how to react at all in that situation. I tried to keep calm and relaxed but I obviously couldn't as you have made that evident by pointing it out.

This person is obviously feeling "uneasy". I disagree it's only natural to feel as such.

I don't agree with this, even if others don't admit it, everyone heading in to their first game has to have some sort of butterflies and uneasiness. It's only natural when you approach something new, plus getting votes only added to the feeling of uneasiness.

How do you feel your vote was a contribution to the thread?

It probably wasn't, but to me it felt like I had done something. It probably wasn't a contribution to everyone elses eyes but it was to me, I had posted something and I didn't know at all what to start my first post with when it started.

[Gravity]

Which people make you feel the most uneasy?

Poppedeye has made feel uneasy throughout. That's why I've kept my vote there, it started out as a silly vote, but I've not really liked Poppedeye's reaction to some things. But that's just a feeling more than anything.

I think the Game itself has made me feel more uneasy as I'm just beginning to understand it, the Wagon that started on me made me feel a bit "Woah, what's going on?!" and I stepped back and looked at the situation and I can now understand why people took my posts the wrong way.

[Gravity]

This and the Summary would probably be the Main Ones:

I'm at work right now but I as soon as I get home I will catch up and give you my two cents.

I just want to say my mentioning to gravity that it is my first game as well was not intended to be playing a noob card, but can see how it is read that way. I was implying that Gravity's vote on me under the basis of it being his first game and not wanting to look at my avatar wasn't good reasoning.

^ It was just a silly vote to start off and for me to contribute something. I'm not sure what he would expect a genuine reason? That struck me as a bit odd.

Summary:

43

[Gravity]

Sorry for the lack of activity guys. Was a little busy over the weekend. Going to read-back and give my thoughts.

[Gravity]

Gravity, you've been quick to defend yourself but haven't made much in the way of analysis. What's your read on Flammus?

I'm not really sure on Flammus. He seems like he's trying to get involved this game and has made some good contributions throughout. I was completely fine with him calling me out on a few things, as some of them needed to be cleared up.

I know I've not made much analysis but I'm trying. I'm trying to form some solid reads right now and I'm in the process of reading back thoroughly. I'll give my full thoughts when I'm done on everyone overall when I'm done.

[Gravity]

Alright, I'm going to go through my thoughts on each person. If I have any questions, then I'll ask them for you to answer. It's no secret I've been a bit out of the loop this game, I'm still forming solid reads on people and those early days sort of threw me off track a little bit, when I was a little under pressure by a few people.

I'm not really sure on Scum yet, but I do get a scummy vibe from a few people:

My strong Town reads at the minute would be Amrun and Grimgroove, because I feel like they have been putting in a lot of effort this game. Grim came in quite late, but he has been trying to make sense of a lot of things and when he came in he asked me to clear a lot of things up. This personally made me felt better as I was able to clear some things up and I was directing those posts to everyone overall. I know I didn't look great in the early parts of the game, but I'm trying my best to catch scum and there is a few people I have my eye on right now.

Amrun is also a strong Town Read, because I feel like she's also been involved consistently throughout the game and has called people out on certain things and has also asked good questions that have given us a better idea of things. If Amrun is scum she's playing it off well, because I get a really Town strong vibe from her rather than a scummy vibe. I've not really felt she's scum throughout at all and none of her posts have really made me feel that way to be honest. I could be missing something though.

I get a slight Town Read from Flammus, because I think he seems to be actively getting involved and he really seems like he's trying to scumhunt. Some of his posts just come off really well to me and he has seemed Townish a lot throughout in my opinion. This is not for definite though, there has been a few posts that have made me look twice but for the most part, he feels pretty Town to me.

Fegelein is in between at the minute. I'm not really seeing a lot of the things that Grim is seeing. He's bringing up good points, but I'm not getting that strong of a scum vibe from Feg personally. He was quiet a lot in the early parts of the game and has looked quite suspicious but I'm just not feeling at all. His posts don't give off that vibe to me, it seems like he's actively trying to defend himself too and I personally feel he has defended himself quite well in some posts. Although, him cursing in the last few posts he's made don't help him at all, as it just looks bad on his end imo. I don't think he's scum though. I think whoever is scum could take advantage of Feg getting heat right now and make themselves look better. I'm not saying you're scum Grim, but I think you have opened up the doors for scum to do that.

I'm still not sure on T S O either. I could understand why he voted me earlier and I understand if he's been busy. But him saying I don't look like scum and then leaving the vote there looks bad on his end. Fair enough if he had said I still look scummy to him, but he didn't. He said he didn't think I did anymore, so him not removing the vote doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. This is not OMGUS by the way otherwise I would have voted him early on. I just think it's a little strange how he's keeping his vote on me right now. Maybe he's changed his mind again about me though. We will have to see I guess.

CplHenderson could be scum but I'm not sure on that. Him saying he was hopping on wagons wasn't a good look on him and it came across really bad when I first read it, after reading it back, it still doesn't look good on him but he has brought up some good points throughout so I'm on the sidelines with him at the moment.

I still get a bit of a scummy vibe from Poppedeye and I can't help it. In some posts I think maybe he's Town and he has defended himself well in some posts, but in other posts I just feel a bit eh and they make me feel very uneasy and give me a very bad vibe. This is the only reason I still have my vote on him because I'm still not 100% on his alignment. Even after re-reading some of his posts and going through them thoroughly, I still get a really bad feeling from them that I can't help at all. This isn't a strong scum read or anything, but I'm definitely not sure on him.

I've not really got a read on tynn at the moment, tynn brought up some good points in her opening posts but has now stepped back a little it seems and has not said anything else now. I don't expect to form a solid read on tynn yet.

[Gravity]

Read at your own risk. My analysis on everyone is probably awful. Feel free to ask me about certain things, or why I feel that why about a certain person and I will provide as much evidence as I can as for why I feel that way.

[Gravity]

What are some of Flammus posts that came off really well to you?

I personally feel these two came off really well, in my opinion:

post 60

post 79

I liked these posts because I felt like he brought up some good points that needed to be answered and he seemed geinuine whilst he was doing it, like he was Town. I've liked a lot of his posts overall IMO, because it's felt like he's been involved and been trying to actively scum hunt.

Why did you say this? Are you trying to help the scum with their strategy?

No, I didn't intend it to be that way at all, but reading back I wish I didn't say that now. Not trying to help scum at all, but I thought that's what they might have been thinking. Probably should have kept that to myself.

Could you please elaborate on CplHenderson's good points? I caught him in a lie earlier.

I'm on the fence with Cpl, some of his posts have come off the wrong way, especially when he said he was hopping on Wagons. But, I really liked this post from him:

post 90

I think he brought up a good point when he said that Mafia could have gripped on to our behavior and used it to their advantage to get us lynched. Thus destracting from real scumhunting.

I still find it a little odd that you're keeping your vote with me when all you have is a feeling on me and the other vote on me is from someone high up on people's scumdar.

I'm actually starting to feel a lot better about you. For that reason, I'm going to remove my vote for now. I'd like to see how things develop and it seems useless leaving it there. I'm not saying you're 100% Town in my eyes or anything, but I definitely feel better about you.

UNVOTE: Poppedeye

[Gravity]

Fegelein is in between at the minute. I'm not really seeing a lot of the things that Grim is seeing. He's bringing up good points, but I'm not getting that strong of a scum vibe from Feg personally. He was quiet a lot in the early parts of the game and has looked quite suspicious but I'm just not feeling at all. His posts don't give off that vibe to me, it seems like he's actively trying to defend himself too and I personally feel he has defended himself quite well in some posts. Although, him cursing in the last few posts he's made don't help him at all, as it just looks bad on his end imo. I don't think he's scum though.

I think whoever is scum could take advantage of Feg getting heat right now and make themselves look better.

I'm not saying you're scum Grim, but I think you have opened up the doors for scum to do that.

In reference to the bolded part: that's always a possibility. In fact, I think one of the best ways to find scumis to find those people who hop on wagons withuot giving the impression they really believe in what they're doing.

I can't help but wonder though: why do you think Fegelein's case is more prone to attract scum on his wagon than any other case?

I don't think Fegelein has defended himself well at all. He's called in his meta-playstyle as if playstyle is the problem I am having with him, while this is not the case.

Fegelein, what do you think of Gravity's read on me? Do you think this sounds like the opinion of someone I misrepped?

Because I feel like he is beginning to look the strongest out of anyone right now and scum could very well latch on to that and take advantage. I need to see how things develop to be honest, to see how I completely feel about Feg.

[Gravity]

What is looking the strongest? Fegelein or the case on him?

Well I don't think Feg did himself any favors in his last couple of posts, especially the cursing. Like I said before, it just looks really bad on his end. Probably could have handed it a little better.

[Gravity]

No Vote (4): CplHenderson, Gravity, T S O, tynn

Why?

I don't know about the others, but I've only just took my vote off. I'm debating who is best to put my vote on at the minute. Want to see how things progress.

[Gravity]

If someone had a gun to your head and were going to make you put a vote down now, where would it fall?

You're not going to put a gun to my head are you?

Personally, it would probably be T S O or Feg. T S O has seemed a bit closed off to be honest and I'm really unsure on him. A lot of his posts haven't really gone in to detail or anything. This could just be due to inactivity and stuff, but something definitely doesn't feel right there. Feg simply because he looks one of the strongest right now. A lot of his posts haven't done him any favors, but I'm willing to give Feg a chance, because I believe he could be Town. His last few posts didn't look good at all though. I'm willing to give them both a chance to be honest, so I'm not going to try and rush anything at the minute.

I want to see how things progress like I've said.

[Gravity]

I do get where you're coming from Amrun, but I just wanted to think things through first before I placed a vote on anybody. I think I'm going to add a vote on T S O. There is no votes on him at the minute. This isn't because he voted me by the way, it's just I think he seems a bit closed off and like I've stated, it could be just due to inactivity but it could also be a scum tactic too. Going to place my vote there for now as that's what my gut is telling me and that's where I feel personally comfortable.

VOTE: T S O

[Gravity]

I must ask again: what do you mean by this? "Strongest"?

Most people seem to think he looks the strongest as possible scum right now. Whilst I agree he hasn't looked good at times and could definitely be scum, I'm on the sidelines and at the moment, I want to look in T S O. Because he's revealed next to nothing in his posts, which makes me question if he's Town.

I don't believe cursing is a scum tell. Some people just like to use the word "fuck" because it's a versatile word and can be used as a noun, verb, adjective, or adverb. Feg's reaction is most likely a response in his playing style (Remember, he was reacting to people basing his scumminess on said playing style).
I'm still reading scum on him, not because of his vulgarities but rather I don't see his suggestions/actions as being helpful to the town.

I didn't say it was a scum tell, I just said he wasn't doing himself any favors with it, that's all and It came off really bad. Feg could very well be scum, but I just don't get as strong as a feeling as some other people do. I really need to see a bit more from Feg to make a final decision about how I feel about him. T S O could be scum, that's why I applied some pressure on him. T S O is becoming my one of my top scum reads because of his lack of involvement. Inactivity isn't a scum tell, but he's had opportunities to expand on his reads. Him just posting that Cpl was leaning scum without anything to back it up, looked bad on his end.

[Gravity]

Shame you dropped out Feg. I wasn't 100% sold on you being scum and you still had a chance to defend yourself, but it's your decision.

I still want to look in to TSO and I'm really not sure on Flammus. With me, it seems like Flammus has been actively trying to scum hunt at times and he's brought up a few good points here and there. Some people are bringing up some points about him that are making me think otherwise though. Amrun is strong Town to me, so that vote seems a little odd from my perspective.

[Gravity]

Hey guys, Weekends aren't great for me. Sorry. Going to have a read back now and give my thoughts soon.

[Gravity]

Regarding TSO: Inactivity isn't a scum tell, but when you have been in the thread, you've not really been expanding on your reads, at all. You could have been doing so and that's a fact because you're in the thread. Your play style this game has not really been helpful to Town. I've tried to share my reads and thoughts when I can, in the hopes I can advance other people's reads and thoughts and further look in to something. You have had tons of opportunities to expand on them but you haven't done so really.

I can understand if you have real life stuff going on and if you're playing a lot of other games, but it seems like you're putting this game as your lowest priority between your other games. I don't know if that's actually the case, but it seems that way. It feels like you don't even want to bother scumhunting or helping Town and I don't like the Vibe that gives off. You're posting, but just enough that you look active and like you're contributing. I feel like myself and a lot of other people have gone quite in to depth with their posts/reads and tried to help. I don't really see that with you.

[Gravity]

I'm not ruling the case on Amrun out TSO. It's just I've personally not felt she's scum at all throughout this game, that's not just because she's the IC either. I've just not got that vibe from her posts, at all. There's still time yet though. I understand your POV on her, but I don't feel the same.

[Gravity]

What posts of hers have given you "good vibes?"

Overall really, but I'll pinpoint a couple posts I liked especially:

First off, I really really liked this post below. It brought up a lot of good points and it really made me think over things.

181

I also thought this post had a nice insight in to the situation at that time.

81

Overall, I've felt really good about her being Town because she's been involved and helpful throughout and I know her being helpful isn't really a Town tell because she's the IC and that's what she's supposed to do. But It's felt like she's been actively trying to scum hunt throughout and also try to work out who Town is too to make things easier. I feel really good about Amrun and I haven't really looked Twice at many or if any of her posts and got a scummy vibe from them.

Like I said, I see and understand your POV, but don't feel the same.

[Gravity]

Having a read back. Will give my thoughts soon.

Welcome Nobody Special.

[Gravity]

So, I still think TSO looks the scummiest out of anyone so far but I'm interested to hear Nobody Special's thoughts. Only major read TSO has really given is on Amrun and whilst he's displaying a convincing argument. It's just not something I can get behind. This is not just because I think he's scum either, it's just I'm really not feeling and seeing what he is, at all. From my perspective, it seems like a last ditch effort to deflect attention on to somebody else but himself imo. You only started really starting getting involved recently, before that it was just minor thoughts and reads with no explanation from you.

Whilst I can completely see what TSO is saying, I don't think Amrun is scum and I have a good gut feeling about her being Town. I have throughout, I obviously saw those posts differently to you then TSO, as they gave me a good vibe, not the opposite. You can't really decipher much from TSO's claim as it's just 'VT' and that's it. Wouldn't be very hard to lie about that as scum. I must say that Poppedeye's defense did seem a little over-defensive of Amrun but Poppedeye has been the same throughout, he's been actively involved throughout and looked like he's been trying to scum hunt. Poppedeye has been a lot like me this game. If he feels strongly about something, he will defend it, he obviously feels strongly about Amrun being Town, so why wouldn't he defend her? Especially if Amrun isn't around and is busy.

[Gravity]

I do tend to Waffle on a bit sometimes with my posts. You do make fair points TSO. I need to think thoroughly about this first and I'm going to have a proper read back at Amrun's posts soon.

I'm not ruling out your case TSO, at all, I've just been so sure on you throughout and you have looked the scummiest to me throughout this phase, Amrun hasn't up until this point and now I'm potentially changing my thoughts to something entirely else. You have brought light to a lot of things I might have been naively missing throughout though, so I need to look at her posts for myself and form a proper judgement.

[Gravity]

Yeah, I might have been being a bit biased. Probably as you have been my Top Scum Read this game. I'm taking a look at her posts now, will give you a detailed response to your case soon.

[Gravity]

Wall of text incoming, I didn't expect to type this much. But, TSO's case is solid after reading back.

Okay, so I said I'd properly respond to TSO's case and I'm going to now. We are fast approaching the Deadline and I'm changing my thoughts and potental top scum read to someone else. I've had a look back at all of her posts and also Poppedeye's and kept in mind what TSO has been saying throughout. I'm going to point out some things I noticed on a second read.

So, I've been looking at both Poppedeye's and Amrun's posts considering that TSO thinks they are aligned together. I can definitely see why. Poppedeye does seem overly defensive about Amrun and I noticed that more-so in his last few posts. Like I've mentioned before though, Poppedeye is like me a lot this game, he was over-defensive when there was a Wagon on him early on too, as we were both just starting out. He could be scum, protecting an inactive scumbuddy, as like TSO said, Poppedeye did answer a lot of things for Amrun and also defended her hard and continued to push hard on TSO as being scum.

Poppedeye's last few posts reveal a lot more than I thought on a second read.

These are the posts that stuck out in particular:

Grimgroove: I was looking it like TSO was feeling pressured and began tunneling Amrun to try and shift focus off him. Amrun mentioned being out all weekend and Monday, which meant (had we not received the extension) there was the possibility of Amrun not posting in time before deadline. I perceived TSO's move as being a stall tactic to run the clock out.

So who else besides TSO and Grimgroove suspects Amrun of being scum? IF this needs to be addressed, let's get to it. I would love to see some argument here other than repeating that she's "backseating" and/or playing a guarded game. TSO (and earlier Fegelein) has played a fairly guarded game so far, too.

^ He was defending Amrun HARD here. This could be Town motivation but it could also be a scumbuddy trying to protect their partner like TSO stated.

It's not so much a matter of Amrun's leanings, rather that it suddenly become a huge deal right at deadline when we should be talking about a TSO lynch. I guess what I don't understand is why we aren't moving to lynch at this point. The town seems to be in agreement here.

^ Here I must admit, he seems desperate for TSO to be lynched. I'm not sure if that's actually the case, but it certainly felt like it on a second read. I've also been pushing pretty hard on TSO this game, as he's been my Top Scum Read, I'm still not sure on him but I'm willing to give him a chance, because it wouldn't be fair otherwise not taking his case in to consideration. Looking back is definitely opening my eyes on a few things. This could be just a Poppedeye wanting to accomplish something on Day 1 and there is nothing necessarily wrong with that. I'd like to achieve something too this phase, but he did seem overly desperate about it and like he wanted the hammer to happen right there and then.

I also didn't like how he said we SHOULD be talking about a TSO lynch. Whilst TSO has been my strongest scumread this game, I'm not just going to ignore everything else and target TSO. That wouldn't be fair. He's brought up a compelling case that deserves attention. There is a possibility that Poppedeye could be scum but there is also a possiblity he could be Town for doing all of this. You have to look at it from both perspectives and I'm on the fence right now with him. If he really believes Amrun is that strong Town, I could see why he would defend her like that.

Moving on to Amrun's posts, I noticed a few things. I can see what TSO means by the backseating thing. I might have been taking a naive look towards her. Amrun has been a Strong Town Read for me throughout which could have been blurring my vision a bit and making me skip over things that I should have been paying more attention too. Poppedeye was a scum read for me early on but that died off. Poppedeye later developed in to a Town Read after that, but I'm starting to see why Poppedeye could be potential scum.

For the record btw, I don't think Amrun being inactive this past few days should be taken as a scum tell, if she's honestly got IRL stuff going on, we can't blame her for not being here and it would be unfair to pile on that reasoning, if she legitimately can't make it on.

I'm going to link a few posts that stuck out to me from Amrun:

177

138

91

These are just a few but I have noticed that she sits back a lot and asks questions. You have to remember she is the IC though, so you expect her to question people and also to educate and ask the Newbies stuff. But, I could see how she could use being the IC to her advantage and I'm sure it's been done countless times before as scum. Amrun has felt Town to me throughout and on top of that she's been the IC and helpful which could been making my view a bit biased.

Looking over, I can definitely see the plausibility of Amrun and Poppedeye being scum. TSO seems Townier as this isn't just a BS case, look at how much I've typed up there and I didn't expect to type that much. TSO brings up a compelling case, that on conclusion isn't just a latch ditch effort by him to save himself, he's thought about it and thought it through. I can now see more clearly what he's been seeing with Poppedeye and Amrun and whilst I'm not 100% convinced they are scum, it's enough for me to remove my vote from TSO.

UNVOTE: TSO

[Gravity]

Nobody Special's entrance has been rather underwhelming. Let's put pressure on that wagon. I've been in a game with him once and he lurks as scum. Remember he's Fegelein's replacement, who was also scummy, for other reasons.

I don't want this T S O wagon to go through anymore.

TSO is far Townier after thinking his case through thoroughly. Probably waffled on a bit in that post, but it really opened my eyes on a lot of things I might have been missing. I think my Scum Read on TSO has been making me a bit biased and I've just realized that. He's more Town than scum for me now, because it's not just a made-up BS case, it's been clearly thought through by him.

I'm just debating where to place my vote now.

[Gravity]

I am going on more of a gut feeling Poppedeye, which is why I unvoted. Maybe the wall doesn't give any new info, but I was assessing the situation for myself and taking my own perspective on things. I've felt like I've been led on Gut Feelings to often this game, I'm trying to break away from that. TSO was more-so a gut feeling and his posts gave me a bad vibe.

Unvoting TSO isn't just a gut feeling of him being Town, he clearly thought the case through clearly and it would be unfair not to respond to his case and also look in to it. While he could be scum just clutching at straws, I'm starting to think that isn't the case. I don't see how my post up there isn't an analysis? I'm looking over the situation completely and giving my opinion on everything. Whilst I might have waffled on a bit, I'm trying to look at everything else too, not just solely focusing on TSO.

Maybe that doesn't strengthen the argument, but it's only the truth. It opened my eyes a lot more than I thought it was. My intention wasn't to provide new Info, it was for me to assess the situation, judge an opinion and decide whether I was willing to go through with this TSO wagon and I've concluded that I'm not. If he was clutching at straws, he would given some BS case but he didn't, he gave a solid case that made me think over things.

[Gravity]

TSO could still be scum and I'm not ruling that out. But just tunneling TSO isn't going to help anything. I should be branching out and looking at other things too. TSO still isn't a strong Town read to me, but I feel lot more comfortable keeping him around than I did before.

[Gravity]

We do need a lynch though, so if you want to look at other options, better start looking fast.

I have a good suggestion!

I'm open to suggestions. I'm trying to think of what would be best at the minute, but the deadline is fast approaching.

[Gravity]

Nobody Special is riding out D1, lurking, hoping his replacement status will buy him time. He had time. The slot he replaced into was already scummy. He promised content and delivered exactly zero. ZERO!!

He needs a wagon at the very least.

I'd be fine with adding some pressure on him. He could just be an inactive though U suppose, I've never seen him play before like you have. If that's what you want to go with though, I'm okay with that, we'll see what we want to do if he starts posting. If he doesn't post, then there is a plausibility he could be scum or just a inactive replacement I suppose.

I don't like to take inactivity as a scum tell, but if he usually rides phases out as scum, then that's definitely something to look in to.

I want to keep an eye on Poppedeye and Amrun too. Whilst I'm not totally convinced their scum yet, assessing the situation definitely opened my eyes more.

[Gravity]

Yeah, I'm trying my best Flammus.

VOTE: Nobody Special

He needs a bit more pressure added to him.

[Gravity]

My top scum reads right now would be: You, Amrun and Nobody Science.

I'm still a little unsure on TSO, but I'm feeling a lot better about him.

I'm not totally convinced you or Amrun are scum yet, which is why I've not voted either of you yet. I am little suspicious of you both after assessing the situation though, but reads come and go, so it just depends how things go from here. I'm voting NS to add some pressure to him and also because I was suspicious of Feg before he repped out.

[Gravity]

I've never seen NS play before, so I can't really judge him on what Grimgroove was saying. I did want to add pressure so he posted more and he has now. I've not really been piqued by anything I've seen from him so far.

Are you very confident on Poppedeye TSO? I'm willing to get on it, but I must admit I am afraid of him potentially flipping Town.

[Gravity]

I must admit, I've not really seen anything from NS that has screamed scum to me. Not enough for me to lynch him anyway. All we really have right now on him is him lurking and him having done it as scum before, but he could just be Town doing that.

I'm willing to along with this, I just hope we are right with it. What Poppedeye has done, you have to look at it from both perspectives. Whilst he could be scum doing all of it, it also could have been Town Motivation too. So, I am worried about him potentially flipping Town, but after looking in to depth at your case yesterday. It brought up a lot of things that made me think and re-think the game as whole.


UNVOTE: Nobody Special

VOTE: Poppedeye

[Gravity]

I'm not voting PoppedEye. Just putting that out there. I'll even have a no-lynch over that.
Gravity, now is not the time to wiffle waffle.

Nobody Special is scum. NOTHING points to hil being town. I challenge you to find one thing that does. One thing.

Time is limited.

I'm not wiffle waffling. I'm trying to decide what the best thing to do is and Poppedeye seems to be the best option right now based on what I've seen and concluded on.

That is the third time you have said TSO's posts made you rethink things on the whole. Elaborate on this. I want to see what's so convincing about his case that makes you follow him like a sheep.

Because it has? I've already elaborated on it in that wall I posted. I don't see how you are perceiving me as voting you as sheeping. I looked over TSO's case, made my own judgement and conclusion. NS hasn't showed anything scummy so far and we can't lynch him just based on the fact he's doing what he normally does (Bare in mind he's apparently done it as both Town and Scum). I can't lynch him on just that alone, it's unfair. I've seen a lot more from you that would suggest you're scum.

Upon looking over the case yesterday I feel a lot better about TSO and don't want to lynch him. It wasn't just a BS case he was presenting.

[Gravity]

That''s because I'm giving both sides of it. I've already stated I feel you're more likely to flip scum, but I'm also looking at the scenario of you flipping Town and the effect it would have on the game and my reads potentially.

I don't see how any of my votes have been Safe? If I was playing it safe, I would have kept my vote on TSO and hoped for an easy lynch but I'm not. I've placed a bold vote on you. Whether the lynch or not goes through is to be seen as there is not much left of the Deadline. But just saying I'm being safe is not true at all. I've been open and honest with my thoughts and I've tried to contribute to every discussion the best I can.

How does my play not back that up? I wanted to pressure NS as I had a solid read on Feg, but Nobody Special's play is suggesting to me that he is Town, where as with Feg that wasn't the case. NS deserves a chance. I've developed reads and I've made a case, that you've seen. I feel comfortable with my vote where it is as that's where I feel I'm likely to hit scum now.

[Gravity]

Well, I'm happy I was right about TSO towards the end. Don't feel we should have lynched him personally. I can understand wanting to get a lynch, but now we're down Two Townies and the Town Doctor is included in that which is so shitty. I need to think things through. It's a scramble in a minute, time to read back I think.

[Gravity]

Well my vote was on you Poppedeye, so it would have been you. That might have been wrong too, but that's where I felt most comfortable. Not sure where to go now tbh. Thinking things through. You're still on my watch list.

[Gravity]

Slow down a minute, bare in mind he's now one away from a lynch, if he's not scum, scum could very well come and fit in easily right now and hammer him. If he's Town, we don't want that happening. Set your suspicions aside and think things through. That's why I didn't rush things with TSO and looked over his case.

[Gravity]

Yeah, that looks rather odd Grimgroove. Cpl saying his top two scum reads are you and Amrun and then putting NS at L-1 doesn't look right. Almost feels like he's desperate to get a lynch and NS is the easy option. I don't like it, Day 2 has barely just started, we should be thinking things through imo.

[Gravity]

Let us ask ourselves: Why did Flammus get killed?
He wasn't obvtown. He brarely got anyone's attention. But he got scum's attention.
Why?
We must answer this question.

I've got no idea why scum would go for Flammus at all. He could have been an easy person to keep around and keep the heat off whoever scum is as he had a bit of suspicion surrounding him (By Amrun for example). It makes no sense to me, at all. I think looking back at Flammus' interactions in depth would be a good idea. Might reveal something.

[Gravity]

Yep, it is. I'm not saying the Deadline has to be used completely, but I see no reason to try to rush it. That seems like what was happening. Especially by Cpl.

[Gravity]

I'd be fine with either Cpl or Amrun right now to be honest. Going to think things through first before deciding who to vote though. Need to go and look back at Cpl's posts and maybe Amrun's again too.

Want to look over Flammus' interactions in particular too.

[Gravity]

Okay, so I've had a look at the two top suspects up to now (Cpl and Amrun) and I've also looked at Flammus' interactions too.

Let's start with Flammus. So, firstly, scum killing him out of EVERYONE makes no sense to me. They obviously hit well because he was the Doctor, but Flammus never hinted at that or soft claimed it as far as I'm aware. I honestly can't understand Scum's thought process over that, as Flammus is someone that had a bit of suspicion on him and it would have kept the heat off them. Maybe though, Amrun is scum and killed Flammus because she wasn't confident that she would be able to convince everyone to lynch him considering the fact she's not in the best position herself right now in the game.

Amrun's interactions with Flammus are the ones that stuck out to me the most when reading back to be honest. It felt like Amrun was convinced that she would be able to get a lynch on Flammus. She might have lost that confidence, which meant Flammus was shot by scum (Amrun and Cpl?). That makes logical sense to me.

Looking back at Amrun's interactions, she barely mentions Cpl, ever. When she did, it was a question, here are a few examples that I noticed:

27

91

177

Posts including Cpl, are always a question. It's just something I noticed. Like, she seems to be distancing herself away from Cpl, I might have missed something along the way reading back but that's how it feels. She's distancing herself but at the same time asking him questions. (Keeping her scumbuddy in check) but not making it obvious they are aligned together. Post 177 felt really defensive to me. It's interesting to look back now TSO flipped Town, as you look at things in a different light. I didn't like that vote without reasoning at first, but Amrun's response is quite interesting actually.

Cpl's posts don't reveal much, but looking back he went for Flammus at times too.

207

219

Recently:

432

REALLY don't like this post. The whole situation I don't like. Him putting NS L-1 this early in to Day 2 doesn't look good to me. It's not like it's a solid read of his either, he said he was suspicious of Amrun and Grimgroove before backtracking and going with NS.

Conclusion: Amrun and CplHenderson are scum together I feel.

VOTE: CplHenderson

[Gravity]

One could even say, I'm slowly falling for you!

Easy there Cowboy.

But yeah, that's where I am at right now and I feel pretty certain with Amrun and Cpl both being scum. Just makes the most sense reading back to me.

[Gravity]

Please tell me you got my joke

Yeah, I just did. Not the greatest of jokes.

[Gravity]

Don't really like that response to be honest. Feels like you have been caught and don't know what to say. It also seems mighty convenient that both you and Amrun don't have your head in the game at the minute. Amrun has real life stuff going on and you don't have an explanation for your actions. I'm not saying you are lying, but the situation just screams to me of scum getting caught out and not knowing what to say.

Saying you think Amrun and Grimgroove are scum but then placing a vote on NS, doesn't look good. Maybe if you had set it up, but it felt really out of the blue. Like you were following your scumbuddy's lead and trying to get the easy lynch on NS.

[Gravity]

Amrun and Cpl have said they will catch-up and haven't. Yeah, I don't like this at all. Seems like they do not what to do anymore and are scrambling.

[Gravity]

Exactly Popped. I'm feeling a lot better about you by the way. Everything about both of their play suggests their scumbuddies. If one of them flips Town, the other could still be scum in my opinion. Cpl has barely done anything helpful this game, Amrun was helpful to begin with. But they're both stalling now and with the information against them, it looks like they don't know what to say and the whole situation feels very odd.

Both have said they will catch-up and have yet to say anything. I can understand if they have RL stuff going on, but it's a bit of a convenient time, especially by Cpl. He basically admitted he's not been reading the thread properly.

[Gravity]

Really not liking Cpl at the minute. Why did he just target Popped? Why didn't he respond to anyone else or the big post I made on him? Makes no sense. It's like he wants to start a wagon on someone that's had a bit of heat on them previously and that's Poppedeye. This time it just doesn't feel like it did eventually with TSO where it felt natural and his case made sense.

It feels like Cpl is forcing something.

Amrun has still said nothing and I am too awaiting her response, if she has one.

[Gravity]

Been prodded, oops. Been playing way too much GTA V. Catching up now and will give my thoughts soon.

[Gravity]

A tip for the future: when you suspect someone for activity, look at their site wide posts. Is it just this game they are lurking in? Have they cited the same real life issue elsewhere on site? Many times, you cannot actually comment on it if it's an ongoing game, except saying, "You have been posting elsewhere." In this case, I have been demonstrably not-present all over the site, not just here, but this is just general advice.

Probably should have done that. It's more-so Cpl anyway, you've posted quite a bit since coming back. I need to fully read over your posts yet though. Cpl is still being very closed off, it's almost as if he doesn't want to open up about anything. I got that vibe of him wishing he wasn't asked questions so he didn't have to post more. His reaction to me I must say was interesting. Considering I started the Wagon on him and actually made the case, so why wouldn't he acknowledge me? It almost seemed like he didn't even want me to mention the fact he just singled out Popped.

I'm going to leave my vote on Cpl for now, as I personally feel that's where I have the best chance of hitting scum and also where I feel most comfortable. You bring up some good points about tynn but I'd like to see a little more from tynn before deciding.

I must admit though, that tynn seems very closed off too, like Cpl. I also have found that tynn posts but her posts don't really contain much substance. Tynn will make a post to seem active and make aware that she's there, but she's rarely added anything of note and I picked this up from an ISO. I have found tynn to parrot other people a lot too and agree with their thoughts/reads. That could be both a Town and Scum tell though. Town because maybe she's not sure what to post and is agreeing with people to appear helpful or Scum because she doesn't have to do much herself that way.

[Gravity]

The one thing that's giving me pause about tynn is the fact she's quite new. I could completely see her play be the result of that. I can understand where you are coming from with her Amrun, but I've just got that horrible gut feeling if I go with it, she's going to flip Town. We still have a couple of days to think anyway. I want tynn to post more before I make my mind up.

[Gravity]

Hi everyone!

I'm off to read all of what's happened so far

Welcome.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts. Tynn sort of disappeared before she was replaced. She had a bit of suspicion surrounding her, so be prepared for that.

[Gravity]

Was that the hammer? I really hope it's the result we want. I can't help feeling like Cpl would have been the better option though, but I'll keep faith that Amrun was the right lynch for today.

[Gravity]

I think Cpl would be a good target, wanted him lynched last phase and didn't happen.

He's been quite scummy throughout and hasn't done much to help Town at all really. I feel most confident about him potentially being scum. I'll give him the chance to defend himself before I vote, but it's going to be pretty hard to change my mind. I'm dead set on him right now. Not really confident on anyone else if we're basing it on to play. All of Cpl's play has just given me a very bad vibe to be honest.

Might do another ISO on him.

Also, Hermy really good point about him suspecting a lot of Townies. I'll wait for everyone else's opinion, as I don't want to rush Day and make a mistake.

[Gravity]

Exactly. I'm suss of Cpl, but no point in rushing Day. If by some chance Cpl isn't scum, then scum can come in here and quick lynch, stealing the win. We don't want that to happen.

[Gravity]

Vote: Cpl

Me too.

[Gravity]

We did it NS! Feels really good, I think I had a really good game, considering it was my first. Really proud of myself.

[Gravity]

I was waiting for us both to be in here, so we could quick lynch. Well done NS, thanks for repping in and being awesome.

[Gravity]

Wasn't nice having to mislead everyone in my first game. There were times when I thought I was done for. Hence why I was so worried to begin with when that Wagon formed.

Really didn't expect to win this game or even make it to the end. Really shocked and happy with myself for doing it.

Was really worried when Feg replaced out, but glad NS replaced in. We just got on really well.

Thanks for a great game everybody, really enjoyed playing with each and every one of you and looking forward to the next. Thanks for hosting Zaicon.

[Gravity]

Thanks guys, appreciate it. Still in absolute shock I won like you wouldn't believe.

[Gravity]

There wasn't really any reasoning to be honest. You just seemed like the good option at the time. Plus, I think you said you at one point you expect to be killed in the thread, so I played in to that too. We were really surprised when you flipped Doctor. I didn't notice a hint.

Plus, I could play in to it next phase with the whole Amrun and Cpl thing targeting you throughout. Just really worked in my favor taking you out.

[Gravity]

I've got nothing to hide. Haha.

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/EcXqvxJj2FV

Here ya go.

There's not much in there though. We were a bit boring.