Mewbie 1491 ~ Day 1

[JKMatthews]

/confirm

[JKMatthews]

VOTE: TSO
Sheeping Xeg, but really just cos he's already said what I'd have said anyway

[JKMatthews]

Just quickly popping in to say I'll hopefully have a proper post up by tonight (my time... so sometime in the next 12 hours).
Dreamcatcher... keep abusing people and I'll probably assume you're scum trying to make people feel like their dislike of you is because of your attitude rather than your play. Hint: That's pretty much how I feel now.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dreamcatcher

[JKMatthews]

Ok - so let me get this straight, I'm abusing someone for being an absolute dolt, and that makes me scum in your opinion. If that's your logic then it's irrational as fuck and you're brain-dead. How about you post your "proper" post and then vote whoever your top scumread is. Right now it looks like your a top candidate for being scum as you're voting me for "behaviour"

when in fact I've abused someone that isn't you and thus my posts have not affected you in the slightest bit

so I don't see why you're getting so worked up here.

Looks like the mafia are JKM and TSO. Mystery solved guys. Kudo me. GG

No, that's not why I think you're scum. Care to read again?
The bolded - say what? Every interaction affects everyone, because it's all information. If I see scummy behaviour, it's irrelevant who it's directed towards. On the other hand, suddenly I'm scum because I'm voting for you? That's some nice OMGUS, but maybe in your mind only OMGUS is allowed? (again, the bold)

[JKMatthews]

"Proper" post:

So despite my initially voting TSO, I think he reacted completely reasonably to Xeg's assault (unfortunately I didn't have time to take part). On the other hand, I think Xeg's "certainty" that TSO is scum is the dodgiest thing that happened. It's odd that TSO doesn't see how posting "oh hey my wincon is town" is suspicious, but it's much, much worse that Xeg is saying "well now you're clearly scum" rather than "how do you not see that's scummy?" Still, I feel like I played a game with Xeg sometime last year and felt the same way... gonna check I'm not being confused and come back to this maybe.

NS, amongst Dreamcatcher's garbage, there was a good point. You've seen Jackel play once, Jackel tells us it's its only game on this site (Jackel's pronoun says it... sorry about how ugly that makes this sentence), so how much weight are you giving Jackel's play after 3 pages being the same as the other game?

Dreamcatcher's post 83 pretty much sums up my argument against Dreamcatcher better than I had. I highly recommend we lynch there...

No great alarm bells from anybody else, but admittedly I've just been reading this game at work checking out new posts since I last read it, so I'm not looking at continued behaviour from anyone. Hopefully that improves soon.

[JKMatthews]

How can you call NS out for not giving reads when you've loudly and proudly done the same?

Do you just not understand why I think you're scum? Post 83 epitomises it amazingly.

If you're confident in your reads, why do you think one of us truthfully claiming a PR is remotely possible? And what are your reads? Me and TSO for scum? Then how can you accuse NS of "just going for the easiest lynch"?

[JKMatthews]

Furthermore, "you can't tell me who my partner is" is the worst argument for not being scum I've ever heard, even if your completely fallacious statement of your interactions showing you're not partnered with anyone were remotely true...

[JKMatthews]

So, ummm... where is everyone?

[JKMatthews]

Ok Dreamcatcher, let's entertain the possibility you're town. What reaction were you looking for from TSO, and what about his reaction sold you on him being scum?

[JKMatthews]

Orangeyoshi - you say that town have no reason to say they're town, but when Xeg made a case against TSO based on that, you said he was tunnelling and focussing on little things. What's changed your mind/what's different about the case with Dreamcatcher?

[JKMatthews]

tysker, what are YOUR reads?

[JKMatthews]

Jackel, it helps the game move along if you provide your take on things. "Dream is being a dick" = fact. "I think it's possible he's doing it as town just to try to get a reaction from scum", "I think he's scum trying to hide behide a cloud of insults", etc = opinion.
I also tend to be a very reactive player, which makes starting hard, but even if you think you're posting redundancy, everyone knowing your stance on things will help move the game along and be useful later, so it's still worth posting. Even if it's just saying "I believe in X's take on things"

[JKMatthews]

Yeah, this one is pretty slow.
That sounds like a nightmarish day...

[JKMatthews]

Cmon guys, what're you doing?

Look at Dream's reaction when TSO challenges him (Dream) to call him (TSO) scum.
It's the first sign of non-aggression (he starts the post with "eh, it was a test") rather than "damn right I'm gonna call you scum, shithead" or something equally rude that we'd expect. If he were genuinely superconfident abusive town who thought TSO was scum, there's no way he'd have toned it down just because TSO implied his attitude is scummy.

Also Orangeyoshi is obvscum for that blatant sheeping. Game over?

[JKMatthews]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Orangeyoshi

[JKMatthews]

Alright shadowspy, time to up your game.
Any actual questions or opinions to contribute?

[JKMatthews]

Post 136 for me simultaneously incriminates yoshi and clears shadowspy (scum trying to get away with the same joke he saw a townie make).
If yoshi ever flips town then shadowspy isn't remotely cleared by this logic...

[JKMatthews]

A noobie replacing in is much more likely to say that as a joke than someone like yoshi is to say it. Why did you pick up on shadowspy's "scumclaim" and not yoshi's?

shadowspy - why does yoshi being easy to manipulate mean he's scum?

[JKMatthews]

Ummmm consider me confused

[JKMatthews]

Fair enough, Xeg.

And yeah, it's obviously a joke whether shadow's scum or not. Hence yoshi's vote being the dodgiest thing since dodged bread.

[JKMatthews]

So ummm, no posts in 24 horus hey?

NS, why the unvote without placing it anywhere else?

The more I read over this game the less I like TSO as town, but I can't put my finger on why...

[JKMatthews]

Fairy nuff.
No thoughts/questions in the meantime?

[JKMatthews]

Touche.

Orangeyoshi and TSO are the scum team. Dreamcatcher and shadowspy are trolls. Game over?

[JKMatthews]

In the Xeg/TSO exchange, TSO refused to acknowledge the fact that Xeg's argument was "you should have just left out the 'My wincon is town!'", and instead strawmanned it to death, implying that the only alternative to saying "I'm town" was saying "I'm scum".

Shadowspy is a troll by a combination of PoE, and the trolling that has gone on. Much, MUCH less confident that Dreamcatcher is a troll. What made you feel the need to ask about the nullTroll shadowspy instead of the scummyTroll Dreamcatcher?

[JKMatthews]

Fair enough. What do you think in the sudden change of tone towards TSO once TSO mentioned his tone is scummy? That implies trolling with intent rather than pure trolling.

shadowspy admittedly hasn't added much to the game, but the whole "I'm scum" thing is clearly trolling, and the rest just reads as not putting time/effort into the game to develop reads further. Until there would be any particular advantage to lurking, I try to look at lurking as a null tell (obviously this fact in itself makes lurking an advantage, but it doesn't stay that way for long).

What are your thoughts on shadowspy? You vote switched to him when he came into the game saying "I'm scum", then with very light pressure went back to Dream. How likely do you think it is that shadowspy was double bluffing with his "yes I'm scum!"? If you think Dream is just trolling, is there a better place for your vote?

I also see I forgot to answer your question in 167: yes, my logic is that you as scum copied a "joke" that you saw a town shadowspy make and sort of get away with, which implies both you as scum and shadowspy as town. So, if you were to ever flip town, it would nullify my theory's implication that shadowspy is town.

[JKMatthews]

Righto. There certainly are large amounts of WIFOM around the "I'm scum" comment, but I think it all just leads to a null read. What do you think of TSO's "not getting the joke"?
And what inspired you to switch back to Dream from shadowspy? If Dream's just trolling, is there a better place for your vote?

[JKMatthews]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TSO

[JKMatthews]

Woah, who said lynch? I don't think he's done anything to be solidly scum, but he also hasn't done much on the contrary. Gotta get something happening in this game, right?

I'm inclined to agree completely.

[JKMatthews]

That's L-1 people. Don't hammer without asking for a claim first

Your vote isn't self explanatory. Care to elaborate?

[JKMatthews]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dreamcatcher

That's L-1 people. Don't hammer without asking for a claim first

Your vote isn't self explanatory. Care to elaborate?

1) He admitted to being scum in a non-sarcastic manner.
2) He put me at L-1 immediately upon joining the game and thus I did the same to him.

He's clearly unequivocally trash and regardless of his role, it'd be beneficial to town to get him out of the game.

He is a mockery to the homo-sapiens species (assuming he is of our kind which is hard to believe as his behavior is neanderthal-like); just hammer him.

1) No, he didn't
2) This isn't a real reason to vote someone.

You've basically said that about everyone - any town reads?

[JKMatthews]

Look at Dream's reaction when TSO challenges him (Dream) to call him (TSO) scum.
It's the first sign of non-aggression (he starts the post with "eh, it was a test") rather than "damn right I'm gonna call you scum, shithead" or something equally rude that we'd expect. If he were genuinely superconfident abusive town who thought TSO was scum, there's no way he'd have toned it down just because TSO implied his attitude is scummy.

TSO, you don't think Dreamcatcher is being scummy? What about this post of mine, that you agreed with?
And what about the fact that he's clearly shown no desire to do anything other than actively lurk by abusing people? I guessss this is null if he's just trolling, but the above point still stands in my mind.
My problem this game is that the noobies seem to be on both sides of the spectrum (genuinely trying to learn/participate and total trolls), and I find it exceptionally tough to get good reads on those demographics. For example tysker has made some weak-ish reads (someone with no town tells is scum), but this isn't necessarily scummy of tysker, and at least looks like somebody trying to get into a game with fairly low activity. Orangeyoshi and Jackel also fall into this category, and once again with low activity it's hard to differentiate scum from town when comments come across as newbies making an effort to say SOMETHING.
The one game I played with Xeg he was a nightmare to read, and I get the impression that tends to be true. And all I can say about you is you seem to be trying to stop my biggest scum read from being lynched... but once again, not alignment indicitive.
So, Dreamcatcher is the most logical place for my vote at the moment.

[JKMatthews]

Is that still all you have to comment on?

[JKMatthews]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: shadowspy

[JKMatthews]

Orangeyoshi - what's the scummy thing you're accusing him of?

[JKMatthews]

Interesting evolution of things...

Orangeyoshi, given that shadowspy has told us he's scum, how does that make you feel about Xeg's hammer?

Malakittens

, is Dreamcatcher talking about a PM he got from the mod about the game enough for us to get him outta here?