Newbie 1686 ~ Endgame

[Nahdia]

Vote: Nahdia

Am I doing this right?

[Nahdia]

VOTE: Nahdia - You're supposed to randomly vote for someone else. Are new to the game?

Dang dude I screwed up already? Thank you kind IC.

VOTE: KainTepes

[Nahdia]

Oh and no I'm not entirely new to the game. Very inexperienced in forum mafia in particular but I know the mechanics and such.

[Nahdia]

People who talk in vivacious caps are ALWAYS town.

[Nahdia]

I didn't find scum but I found a town. It's KainTepes, the town man. He has ascended and is now chilling with me in my town circle which is actually a line because there's only two of us. Would you like to join us Dwlee and make a rad town triangle?

[Nahdia]

VOTE: Unvote: KainTepes[/unvote]
whoops.

[Nahdia]

wow i screwed up how do i even edit things is that even a thing i can do

[Nahdia]

I find town reads are generally way more reliable than scumreads so I strongly question that.

take 2 VOTE: Unvote: KainTepes

[Nahdia]

lmfao i suck at this pls help.

[Nahdia]

I'll be your friend if you help me find scum. What do you think of PhantomCobalt? I don't like how he admitted the read he made on me was fake as soon as he was questioned on it. It's one thing if he was trying to gauge my reaction but he pulled back before I even had the chance to see it.

[Nahdia]

Honestly what was so terrible about the post? The fact that he didn't explain his reads? I'm not sure what he's suggesting will be particularly helpful but how was the act of suggesting it a scumtell? Sorry in advanced for questioning just about everything I'm really trying to get the hang of this.

[Nahdia]

Ice baby, are you caught up? Any thoughts?

Why ask someone else for their thoughts when you haven't contributed anything of your own?

VOTE: species

[Nahdia]

What're your thoughts

I have a slight town read on Dwlee actually, and Drixx seems town to me as well so far. Not ready to go into my scum reads yet.

Why ask someone else for their thoughts when you haven't contributed anything of your own?

VOTE: species

Whats scummy about this, specifically?

Also, where do you stand on PC at this point?

It just feels like you're avoiding giving contribution of your own which seems like it would be the default scum mindset. And now that you've actually given your reads, they feel really really easy. Dwlee and Drixx are two experienced players providing a lot of content. Townreading them just feels like the easiest possible reads to give here, even though neither of them have done anything I feel actually earns them any townpoints. My vote on you stands.

As for PC (I'm assuming you mean Phantom?) I kind of wish he'd given me a bit clearer of a response when he got called out for backing down so quickly but if anything I think brushing something like that off this early is more towny than anything since scum would probably be quick to jump to defensive. Pretty much null on him.

[Nahdia]

Dwlee and Drixx are two experienced players providing a lot of content.

Maybe thats why I'm able to form reads on them in the first place?

Providing a large amount of content doesn't make someone town which comes back to my original points that your reads appear extremely basic (ie what a scum would say if they were asked to provide reads). It'd be totally rad if you could explain a bit more about why you're townreading them.

Nahdia, I dont like Nahdia buddying with me,, and trying to talk about irrelevant things,, that and the RandomNumberGenerator in the first plage are very SCUMMY...

If townreading someone is buddying them then golly gee willikers I just don't know, man. And what irrelevant things did I ever bring up?

I feel like I have nothing useful to add here.

I can't tell if Nahdia, species, and clumsy are really all scummy or just clueless newbs.
Nahdia acting all buddy buddy rubbed me the wrong way, as did clumsy's "game" and species playing along.

Drixx saying he felt "in tune" with PC felt weird but not necessarily scummy.

Dwlee is just being Dwlee.

Can we get some more activity on here? I know I've been pretty MIA so I'm throwing stones from a glass house, but I'm hoping to be more active now

This is a really terrible (see: fake) post and I'm kind of sad no one called it out yet. At this point I'd vote in species and Bitten10minutesago.

Also what's V/LA?

[Nahdia]

Prod Ice³

[Nahdia]

Your wagon is starting to look good to me. And that's unrelated to your calling my half assed reads list fake. If I wanted to fake a reads list, I would try a whole lot harder than that.

VOTE: Nahdia

"I won't explain why I'm voting and instead just claim I'm joining a wagon which currently has two people who voted in RVS. But I will go out of my way to defend myself."

I shouldn't need to explain why this is scummy as sin.

VOTE: Bitten10minutesago

[Nahdia]

Ice I'm glad your back but I think you're mixing up "scummy" and "annoying". Do you believe vote hopping like crazy is indicative of scum?

[Nahdia]

My own thoughts on Kain have developed but I'm curious to see you elaborate a bit more before I go into that.

[Nahdia]

Unless you're implying all his reads are fake, it looks like he has scumhunted from his posts. He's a bit triggerhappy with his votes but he's been giving logic for scumreads etc.

[Nahdia]

Yes but I'm grilling you because I want more content out of you, not because I feel the desire to defend him.

I think KainTepes is town because of his read on me. Turning around and scumreading someone for buddying isn't something I would expect if he's really playing this flippant trigger-happy game as scum. Mafia wants to be townread and encourages it.

[Nahdia]

lmfao i can't argue with that logic

[Nahdia]

Okay valid except this is a newbie game and unless I'm seriously getting taken for a ride here I don't think Kain is going for that level of play. If I'm wrong and I'm severely underestimating the guy then damn I friggin' suck & the fool is me but like.... nah.

[Nahdia]

Ok ok sure but my point about his scumread on me being a towntell stands. Ya don't gotta agree with it but I maintain the read.

Altogether I'm pretty disappointed with Ice's return. My gut tells me he's scum but I'd want way more from him.

Hey Clumsy, vote Bitten with me, yeah?

[Nahdia]

Meh. My initial vote on you was a nudge to start fleshing out your reads, and while I kept the pressure up awhile I liked post 143 enough that when someone else started actually reading strongly as scum to me I was more than willing to switch.

[Nahdia]

I screwed up the post link or whatever because I'm bad and don't understand formatting here at all but whatever, post 143 blah blah blah. you kind of put me in my place wrt my pressuring you so props to ya.

[Nahdia]

i gotta crash and have work until late in the evening tomorrow. it'd be hella rad if when check up tomorrow evening there is a nice respectable bandwagon on Bitten10minutesago, the mafia man, man.

[Nahdia]

Wowee no one followed my vote

Nahdia, why are you asking me to vote with you?

I think it was more to gauge my reaction. Which, if so, you can jot down as skeptical.

Actually, I'm asking you to vote with me because I'm voting mafia, and I'd like it if you'd join me.

]

I think PC had the best read on me in that game. XD

Nahdia, why are you asking me to vote with you?

Dwlee, I kinda agree. Seems like they would play the same way as town or scum. If they're scum, we'll have to catch them on something.

Nahdia is asking you to vote with her because she's getting pissy about me voting her.

You might be biased a bit there. I'm tempted to vote you and put some pressure on and see how you react. For now I think I'll just say this: it's dangerous to automatically assume the worst motives for what people you are voting/scum reading do in the game. That leads to confirmation bias, and confirmation bias is how towns implode all the time.

I don't see any reason from an external POV to just assume Nahdia is motivated by "getting pissy". Take that for what it's worth: just a quick neutral POV.

I'm kind of stream of consciousness posting here, so I'll just say that when I started typing this post I wanted to pressure you to see if you were confbiasing or if it was a calculated move on your part, but then I decided that maybe conversation will sort it. I guess we'll see.

Sorry if that's a bit muddled; NyQuil is some crazy stuff. I think there's a reason they show a guy in his pajamas taking NyQuil while sitting on his bed. If you take that stuff in your kitchen, you're going to wake up with a tile imprint on your face.

On the other hand, I totally think you should actually vote him. Do it. I'll be your best friend et cetera.

Ok ok sure but my point about his scumread on me being a towntell stands. Ya don't gotta agree with it but I maintain the read.

Altogether I'm pretty disappointed with Ice's return. My gut tells me he's scum but I'd want way more from him.

Hey Clumsy, vote Bitten with me, yeah?

I've posted 5 times and made my case against someone who hasn't scumhunted once and has been vote hopping and that makes me scum?

I think saying "I can't read Kain" is totally valid but scumreading him at this point is weird to me and that along with a gut feeling I had just reading your posts makes me suspicious af. Don't worry though, you can redeem in my eyes yourself by voting Bitten10minutesago.

[Nahdia]

Frick frick frick I'm really sorry about the pronoun thing I always screw that stuff up I'll try my best to avoid that. Please do call me out if I keep making that mistake, I really don't wanna keep doing that T_T

And uh, hate to tell ya when you're giving me slack for supposedly being fresh but I'm no hustler. I have a few thousand games of ruby mafia (EpicMafia) under my belt. Forum mafia wise I think I have like three games. Five if you count a game where the mod just closed the game at the beginning of d2 because half the table requested replacements and a game where a person got modkilled and then outted the entire scumteam on d1. All those games were really fast paced compared to this (36 hour days, 12 hour nights). To be fair of those forum maf games I only flipped town a grand total of once but I'm certainly not trying to pull the newb card at any rate.

I don't really like gettin' told I'm "misguided" or underestimating things here but... guh I don't really have a good response to that. I come from a meta that encourages aggressive play. Games last 30 minutes; you see someone do something you feel is stepping out of line, ya punish them hard and ya punish them fast. Forgive me if I need some adjusting. I promise not to WILLFULLY induce tunnel vision as I sometimes do...

PEdit: Drixx, other than digging Bitten's recent post just for de-escalating, how do you feel about it in terms of towniness/scumminess? I'm lookin' for your opinion since you've just been mentioning the dangers of confirmation bias and maybe I can't help but see it negatively. I still feel that last post was just sort of an appeasement since suddenly the heat got turned on, ie it was defensive in nature which I believe tends to indicate scum.

[Nahdia]

So uh... what up, guys? Is everyone busy or is it just no one has anything to say?

[Nahdia]

Drixx has your argument with yourself about Phantom reached any conclusions? Also in 149 you totally said you had somethin' "figured out" but as far as I can see never enlightened us. You're wiggin' me out because as pro-town as your play has been (which, admittedly, is kind of the point of being the IC) I haven't seen much scumhunting out of you.

Let's get some content rollin' peeps.

[Nahdia]

Yo I feel like we scrambled out of RVS and just freakin' faceplanted right away :\

VOTE: Ice³

Not that my read on bitten has necessarily changed but Ice is a better vote because at least bitten looks like she's trying to be pro-town and I'll be damned if we reach lylo with a town full of lurkers.

[Nahdia]

Nothing in particular that I've identified. Call it gut.

[Nahdia]

SPECIES is a good vote,

VOTE: SPECIES

He has been ignoring peoples arguments and only talking about English levels,,,,

you realize he only has two posts about his english levels? he looks to be new to the game, do you think he may just be having trouble forming reads or are you picking on low hanging fruit.

This (the whole low hanging fruit thing) is really funny from Ice³ considering he goes on to scumread Kain.

[Nahdia]

lmao just realized they're both voting Kain. "easy targets" eh KT?

[Nahdia]

Uhg. Is it just a flat out fallacy to think someone is "so scummy they're towny" or does that make sense?

[Nahdia]

SEE? Posts like these are why I am voting for Ice. Pretending to be intellectual but have no substance... CLEARLY it is scum trying to pretend to be involved but isn't actually involved, by voting for the easiest person to vote for... WITHOUT even explaining why scum is likely to act the way I act...

WE ALL NEED TO LYNCH ICE, HE IS OBVIOUSLY SCUM.

If you actually read my earlier posts I explained why you may be acting like this and thus you are showing your "involvement" in this game

Honestly the issue I'm having is that you haven't really. You've pointed out things he's done that MAY be scummy but never asserted WHY they're scummy. The closest to that you've come is this:

It really seems that Kain is being really defensive and wants to boot out anyone who seems even slight suspicion in him.

Problem with this is that scumreading people who vote you can actually be a really town response. After all voting the one guy they know to be town (themselves) is an inherently anti-town action. It's one of those things you need to judge as natural or unnatural which... is the really hard part about reading KainTepes due to his gimmick.

AND DO YOU THINK I AM STUPID OR SOMETHING??? YOU MUST BE STUPID TO THINK SOMEONE WILL ATTRACT ATTENTION LIKE THIS AS SCUM...

First Kain post I dislike but to be fair he's reiterating what other people have said.

Also KT holy crap what happened to your avatar.

[Nahdia]

In other news I'm really lookin' forward to Clumsy's ISO. Don't disappoint me >=)

[Nahdia]

Spoiler: Ice³ Conversation

Ice I'm glad your back but I think you're mixing up "scummy" and "annoying". Do you believe vote hopping like crazy is indicative of scum?

He hasn't scum hunted

Unless you're implying all his reads are fake, it looks like he has scumhunted from his posts. He's a bit triggerhappy with his votes but he's been giving logic for scumreads etc.

Are you townreading him?

Yes but I'm grilling you because I want more content out of you, not because I feel the desire to defend him.

I think KainTepes is town because of his read on me. Turning around and scumreading someone for buddying isn't something I would expect if he's really playing this flippant trigger-happy game as scum. Mafia wants to be townread and encourages it.

What if he is doing some sort of reverse Psychology?

Heya Comrade BlueTrin. I essentially pointed that stuff out to Ice (above). It bugs me that Ice³ dodged my questions and points here. Really does look like he's going for what he think is the "easy" target though I would contend Kain actually being easy. And yes, activity overview shows Ice³ has the lowest post count.

[Nahdia]

Kain uh... it's ok but I dunno if it fits you man. There's a whole world of cool animated Pokemon sprites out there and you went with Miltank lmfao.

[Nahdia]

[quote="In post 241, Bitten10minutesago"]I'm more intrigued to see how Ice does with some pressure on, so
VOTE: Ice/quote]This is a pretty transparent excuse to vote somebody and while it doesn't immediately scream scum to me, if Ice³ is suddenly at L-1 and you aren't reviewing your vote I'm gonna be unhappy.

[Nahdia]

whoooops

I'm more intrigued to see how Ice does with some pressure on, so
VOTE: Ice

This is a pretty transparent excuse to vote somebody and while it doesn't immediately scream scum to me, if Ice³ is suddenly at L-1 and you aren't reviewing your vote I'm gonna be unhappy.

[Nahdia]

acceptable

[Nahdia]

I'm at work phone posting but two things that stood out to me while reading since my last post;

1) I liked dwlee early but his apathy has made me concerned since I generally read apathy as scummy. I'm willing to let it slide for now since there are scummier fish to fry but at some point it becomes coasting.

2) Drixx it's kind of presumptuous to say you're not outing reads so Clumsy can't sheep you. As if you're the only person he could sheep? :p I've given plenty of reads as have others. If he's gonna just ride on other people's opinions he already has the opportunity. I'd really like to see reads from you considering you play thus far has just game theory and.as soon as we broach actually inferring alignments it's like you've taken a vacation to Waffle House (something I lowkey called you out for in 200 and you failed to respond to iirc).

And @Blue I detailed my experience a bit more in 195. I'll respond more to your question when I'm home since I'm not gonna have time rn.

[Nahdia]

*cough*

[Nahdia]

>Call out Drixx for ignoring an earlier post I made questioning him
>Drixx ignores me
What must I do to get IC-Senpai to notice me T_T

Also Dwlee the ice bandwagon is led by yours truly. Bitten admitted when she voted she was just wagoning for the sake of pressure. Kind of odd how you claim you get reads from interactions but then you scumread the guy who you haven't interacted with, hmm? ^_~

[Nahdia]

Can you repeat the question Nahdia? I thought I answered it in post #282

Wasn't so much a question as it was me calling you out for waffling and saying a lot of words without making any reads.

Gonna just let whatever happened with Dwlee slide for now >_>

[Nahdia]

He just gave his reads.

aaaanndd I just realized I never finished responding to BlueTrine.

[Nahdia]

Oh and no I'm not entirely new to the game. Very inexperienced in forum mafia in particular but I know the mechanics and such.

I think nobody asked you what your exact experience in the game is.
So I am asking you this. And based on your previous experience as playing scum, who here could be scum?

Experience tl;dr
-Couple thousand chat mafia games (EpicMafia)
-3 Completed forum maf games (by this site's standards they'd be blitz games)
-2 games of Resistance
-4 marathon games

Based on my previous experience, I'm not liking Dwlee. I've absolutely used anger in the past to gain me some leeway when people start to catch onto me (not proud of it but I have done it). I thought Clumsy's point that Dwlee has played a really reactive game was a good one. You can make excuses for it all you like but proactive gameplay is, again in my experience, consistently more indicative of town. If he's really town I wish he'd be more active in trying to scumhunt than just asking for reads to sheep. He started out strong for me but has become a scumread at this point.

I don't necessarily agree with Drixx from 272 that Ice³'s failure to respond to pressure is indicative of scum; there's a million ways to read into someone disappearing. And if it is game related, both town and scum can be defeatist. But not agreeing with that line of thought doesn't make him scum. I really don't know where to go forward on someone who "doesn't give formal reads". Like what the heck is that about??? Okay so don't give me a formal read list just informally, casually even, tell me what you think of people -_-

My read on bitten going forward is going to depend on her next few posts. For now I respect needing to be spare because of midterms. And KainTepes was actually dead on in 257. If Ice³ does end up being town and bitten just transparently sheeped for the sake of pressure, she's going to look

really

bad. We'll cross that bridge if we come to it though.

As for you Blue I'm still definitely wary on your slot. This table has a lot of lurk and just general anti-town playstyles so it's pretty easy for anyone to jump in and suddenly gain a lot of cred just by being proactive and looking like you're sorting things out. A lot of your posts were reiteration of things others, myself especially, had said. Color me unimpressed.

[Nahdia]

Lmao at BlueTrin foreseeing what I'm going to rag on him for before he even posts and adding a disclaimer. I am the callout Queen.

As return posts go that was once again underwhelming, Ice. And you kind of highlighted the major issue I take with your read on KT; it's so dang obvious but if you actually read into him you can see he was scumhunting. It kind of just feels like you're putting in the minimum effort. Sort of like how you just quoted me and reiterated what I said instead of making your own thoughts >=\ it's pretty clear your effort isn't there and that's why people are wanting to "pressure" you.

[Nahdia]

We discussed Ice going for the "easy target" or low hanging fruit or whatever you wanna call it but in reality I'm starting to feel the easy target is Ice himself.

[Nahdia]

He's actually not at L-1 because Kain switched his votes.

[Nahdia]

UNVOTE:

[Nahdia]

Intent to L-1 Dwlee because bitten/Drixx have both been giving me iffy vibes. At this point an Ice vote just unnerves me because besides maybe PhantomCobalt I don't see who could be Ice's partner. He does seem like the easy target despite what Drixx said. He could be lazy scum or lazy town but I don't actually have a strong indication of which.

Dwlee99 I'm not voting you yet because Ice's vote isn't up and I wouldn't want him to jump in and quickhammer you because he's in the cross but at this point I'd appreciate if you acted as if you're at L-1.

[Nahdia]

There's way too much "lazy = scummy" going around this game. Yes there's probably a scum in lurkers but someone having low participation is poor basis for a read imo.

[Nahdia]

NAH<dia>, phantom isnt doing anything.

I've seen scum that do nothing and I've seen town that do nothing. I've also seen town be active and I've seen scum be active. I don't think someone doing very little proves anything, dude, and I'm not sure how you can genuinely you have an accurate read on him.

[Nahdia]

Dwlee, do you see a partnership between Ice and PC or are they both just individual scumreads?

[Nahdia]

Phantom voted Ice for voting Clumsy, ie if the post is read at face value Phantom is saying Clumsy is his partner.

[Nahdia]

MY TUMMY STILL HURTS, PC R U HERE ???
VOTE: PC

alt slip

[Nahdia]

BlueTrin do you actually scumread PC or are you just trying to exert pressure on him at this point? Having a hard time following your votes.

[Nahdia]

May I remind you of what you yourself said; we have two days left. We need to decide on actual lynches instead of just throwing our votes to poke people.

[Nahdia]

He's at L-3 so you can safely vote him. Unlike BlueTrin I'm not actually going to be led on a new wagon by my scumread with two days to go.

[Nahdia]

Nahdia, update your reads please and thank you.

MY THOUGHTS ARE STARS I CANNOT FATHOM INTO

CONSTELLATIONS

READS.

Not a big fan of huge reads posts so much as I am giving my thoughts as I go (which I've done) but here's the gist of where I stand on this table. Pretty sure you can find me giving thoughts on just about everyone if you ISO me so I'm not going to reiterate in detail here. Read me if you want my thoughts ya lazy bones -_-

Town

Clumsy
Kain

BlueTrin
PhantomCobalt

Drixx
Bitten10minutesago

Ice³
Dwlee99

Scum

[Nahdia]

I was talking about your read on me. Did you read any of the last page?

Yes.

[Nahdia]

But please, point out your towntells for me. I'm all ears.

[Nahdia]

I was talking about your read on me. Did you read any of the last page?

Yes.

But please, point out your towntells for me. I'm all ears.

I'm not town casing myself. But there's a serious problem if you think I'm scum right here.

Well clearly I suck dude but you need to spell it out for me because atm I'm not buyin' what you're sellin'.

[Nahdia]

"I'm not town casing myself but dude I'm like SO TOWN"

I'm sorry man but this attitude is doing the opposite of what you're hoping for.

[Nahdia]

I'm not convinced you genuinely feel you solved the game when you're scumreading two lurkers for lurking.

[Nahdia]

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhggggggggggggg I dunno I'm sleepin on all this.

[Nahdia]

Ice how do you feel about the PC wagon?

[Nahdia]

Dwlee outed some logic on it. I'd quote but I'm phone posting. I'll try to give some more detailed coherent thoughts when I'm home I just wanted your thoughts in particular.

[Nahdia]

dued

[Nahdia]

dude* lol

dwle i cant hecking follow ur logic and while itmight be gneuine it if i cant make sense of it im not going to trust my feelings on that specifciccally. that said other things u have done have honestly really rubbed me the wrong way like when u spazzed a bit and then just recently when ur like "dude there's a PROBLEM if u dont read me as town" like heck off why are you playing to be townread i cant shake the feelin this whole "i jsut solved the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" is a last ditch "im scumhunting!!!!' thing and i just dont greaking get it dude like honestly i dont UNDERSTAND UR LOGICAL PROGRESSION i keep rereading it and i cn honeslty see it as u jsut desperately came up with somethin and BLUETRIN WHY ARE YOU STILLL WITH THIS VOTE IT'S L-1!......

VOTE: dweleeeeeee

[Nahdia]

PHANTOM OF UR FOLLOWING THIS THREAD WHY R U NOT DOIN CRAP THO like ur at l-1 u seem very calm man lol

[Nahdia]

PHANTOM TBH IM TEMPTED TO HAMMER U SO WE CAN GET ON WWITH THIS LOL

[Nahdia]

phanntomtotmttoktmotmtom i h

[Nahdia]

sry m drunk lol good posts m9

[Nahdia]

UNVOTE: lol

[Nahdia]

morning guys my head hurts like hell wonder why that could be.....

at this point I'm just interested in making sure we lynch SOMEONE. It's not my top choice but I am willing to hammer this vote. PC now would be the time to say anything else you've got in your defense/reads to you'd like to see us sheep down the line etc.

[Nahdia]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=64454

Uh, what am I supposed to gather from this?

Oh yeah ... Forgot to add this: Nahdia I hope you had a good Friday evening, if it hurts that much it must be good.

yeh man nothin like getting intoxicated and typing sloppily on the internet on a friday night

[Nahdia]

Also, Nahdia, after your drunken night, you unvoted. Where are you at with things now?

Feelin' like Dwlee is kind of towny again but still not convinced of his read. Feelin' like BlueTrin is scum cause his votes and his posts just don't line up. Feelin' like if I'm right about that, PC is gonna flip town. Howzabout you, my man?

[Nahdia]

Also, Nahdia, after your drunken night, you unvoted. Where are you at with things now?

This is more what is troubling me (with Nahdia).

When I play Town of Salem, usually most of scum only join wagons against town, they rarely initiate them and sometimes are shy of hammering.
When scum gets accused they often vote late only when they realise that they will look scum if not voting.
On this website I guess things may be different.

Fraid that "tell" won't work on me. I'm almost always skittish with my votes this late in a day

because it's smart to be.

Nice job instantly throwing shade when I outted a scumread on you though.

[Nahdia]

Also, Nahdia, after your drunken night, you unvoted. Where are you at with things now?

This is more what is troubling me (with Nahdia).

When I play Town of Salem, usually most of scum only join wagons against town, they rarely initiate them and sometimes are shy of hammering.
When scum gets accused they often vote late only when they realise that they will look scum if not voting.
On this website I guess things may be different.

Fraid that "tell" won't work on me. I'm almost always skittish with my votes this late in a day

because it's smart to be.

Nice job instantly throwing shade when I outted a scumread on you though.

This has nothing to do with your scumread, you always have been suspicious and I have no problem with it.

But I note that you were lurking in the last hours.

Horseshit.

.

You haven't had a single objection to me, even going to the point to repeat what I've said about the game, and now suddenly I've always been suspicious? I call bullshit. And NO, I haven't been lurking. I've been away from the computer for the past few hours. You're baseless, fool. Go ahead and continue sheeping the read of the person you scumread. You put down the vote with the excuse of "pressure" and now he's at L-1 and you're just saying sweet nothings as the timer whittles down. I've asked you multiple times to back up your vote or not but you've ignored me. I've fucking had it dude.

VOTE: BlueTrin

[Nahdia]

Calling me "always suspicious" and randomly accusing me of lurking when that's a ridiculous notion is really the cherry on top. You're scum slinging mud, getting ready for the next day.

[Nahdia]

HELLLOOOO!!!

why voting BLUETRIN, he seems like most TOWNIE person in this game, i want lynch DWLEE or ICE OR PC

Shut the hell up dude I'm this close to marking you as scum with him for your ridiculous trolling for claims.

[Nahdia]

Calling me "always suspicious" and randomly accusing me of lurking when that's a ridiculous notion is really the cherry on top. You're scum slinging mud, getting ready for the next day.

Did you explain what you were doing ? Because it is exactly what I felt you were doing ... setting up for the next day, because maybe you know how PC will flip ?

OH REALLY? If that's what you thought I was doing maybe you should of, I don't know, SAID THAT? Pretty evident you can't actually come up with any points and you're just recycling what I'm saying to you. Could you be any more transparent my freakin' god.

[Nahdia]

Inclined to believe PC is town because of the dismal vote BlueTrin placed on him AND HAS STILL REFUSED TO REVIEW DESPITE IT BEING A WAGON LED BY HIS SCUMREAD. "Pressure" my ass. He's responded to the damn pressure dude and you haven't given a single reason you're lynching him.

[Nahdia]

Only person I want to change the lynch to is you. I'm making plenty of perfectly valid points against you. That's what I'm doing. Don't accuse me of doing nothing you mud slinger. I encourage others to vote with me because every post you make is absolutely reeking right now.

[Nahdia]

Inclined to believe PC is town because of the dismal vote BlueTrin placed on him AND HAS STILL REFUSED TO REVIEW DESPITE IT BEING A WAGON LED BY HIS SCUMREAD. "Pressure" my ass. He's responded to the damn pressure dude and you haven't given a single reason you're lynching him.

Also do you consider PC reaction quite townie yourself ?

Would you have reacted the same way ?

Hmmm... what could possibly be your motivation behind asking me this?

[Nahdia]

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

L-1

Heaven help me.

[Nahdia]

He's not hammered, dork. He's at L-1 now.

[Nahdia]

Well, now he's at L-2.

[Nahdia]

Well, now he's at L-2.

I missed KT voting Ice.

Why would you refuse to vote someone else now ?

Who do you want to flip this to?

[Nahdia]

Would you like me to vote Ice?

[Nahdia]

Christ dude my internet is hot garbage right now half the time I try to post it fails.

P-Edit: Well I'm asking what you want.

[Nahdia]

Okay how about this? How about KainTepes votes whoever I vote, I vote whoever BlueTrin votes, and BlueTrin votes whoever KainTepes votes? Sound like a plan?

[Nahdia]

Jeeze man I dunno. I kind of wanna say Ice just to troll Dwlee but I think he might have a meltdown if we don't lynch PC lmao.

[Nahdia]

why would you care if he has a MELTDOWN??? You scummates???

Dang dude you got me.

P-Edit: Null as Purgatory itself.

[Nahdia]

I didn't try to hammer PC I put him at L-1 and even stated so in that post.

[Nahdia]

Straight up I'm just screwing around with people at this point. My vote is staying short of a claim.

[Nahdia]

Straight up I'm just screwing around with people at this point. My vote is staying short of a claim.

So all of this name calling was just to annoy me ?

I apologize for the name calling, that's just my incredibly charming personality.

[Nahdia]

NAHDIA MAY BE SCUMBUDDY. SHE RELUCTANT TO VOTE PC

Excuse me?

[Nahdia]

The entire time I was messing around my vote was on PC lmao.

[Nahdia]

Drixx I want you to saw I'm town.

[Nahdia]

If PhantomCobalt is town I will eat a slice of pizza!!!!

[Nahdia]

If PhantomCobalt is scum I will opt instead for noodles.

[Nahdia]

p o s t u r i n g

Strike from the record my sentiments of KainTepes being town. He appears to be claim trolling yesterday.

[Nahdia]

i ate that pizza and it was delicious btw. win for Nahdia.

[Nahdia]

Dwlee diverted it at BlueTrin's encouragement

@BlueTrin kinda thought he was town but I was ok with flipping him since people seemed to positive on him.

Glad bitten died but now I need to reassess. Feel like Dwlee is town coming out of that. Also feel like my earlier read on KT was freakin stupid and I'm a goddamn idiot. Having issues sorting BlueTrin

[Nahdia]

Drixx is obvstown honestly. Ice idk and Clumsy I have no reason really to doubt but we'll see

[Nahdia]

So that's where I'm at.

[Nahdia]

Dwlee do you think it could be both of them?

[Nahdia]

Both Ice and KT that is

[Nahdia]

I have varying degrees of townreads on you, Drixx, and Clumsy. If I'm right, there's at least one scum in the two votes that are up.

But Ice and Kain interacted a decent bit. Do you think they could possibly be partners based on that? Open question to everyone. I'm rereading both of them right now.

[Nahdia]

An old trick I learned from EM. Townread people until you've got three remaining players, investigate the interaction between those unclears and find two you don't believe can be partners, and then vote the third one. They are confirmed to be scum with one of the two that aren't partners themselves.

VOTE: BlueTrin

If it wasn't clear; this is a PoE vote.

[Nahdia]

Nahdia, could you answer my post? And Kain, do you have any better reasoning?

Nah, I don't feel I should need to justify that read. How about you tell me why you think he's not town. Stop asking others to do all the work. Your only major contribution has been a list of sparse ISO reads...

An old trick I learned from EM. Townread people until you've got three remaining players, investigate the interaction between those unclears and find two you don't believe can be partners, and then vote the third one. They are confirmed to be scum with one of the two that aren't partners themselves.

VOTE: BlueTrin

If it wasn't clear; this is a PoE vote.

You probably want to explain a bit more ? I am fine getting lynched if that helps the town, but I need some reassurance that your process is sound and that you are not scum yourself.

Town: Dwlee99, Drixx, Clumsy

Unsure: Ice, KainTepes, BlueTrin

KainTepes is not partners with Ice

Conclusion: BlueTrin is confirmed mafia.

[Nahdia]

Nahdia, could you answer my post? And Kain, do you have any better reasoning?

Nah, I don't feel I should need to justify that read. How about you tell me why you think he's not town. Stop asking others to do all the work. Your only major contribution has been a list of sparse ISO reads...

An old trick I learned from EM. Townread people until you've got three remaining players, investigate the interaction between those unclears and find two you don't believe can be partners, and then vote the third one. They are confirmed to be scum with one of the two that aren't partners themselves.

VOTE: BlueTrin

If it wasn't clear; this is a PoE vote.

You probably want to explain a bit more ? I am fine getting lynched if that helps the town, but I need some reassurance that your process is sound and that you are not scum yourself.

Town: Dwlee99, Drixx, Clumsy

Unsure: Ice, KainTepes, BlueTrin

KainTepes is not partners with Ice

Conclusion: BlueTrin is confirmed mafia.

I am fine dying if the majority of the people here believe that it will help the accuracy of the reads.

You ll obviously have to re evaluate the accuracy of your reads after I flip town, but if we win that's no issue.

Continually insisting you're okay with being lynched is weird and you should stop because it's just as easily town as it is bad scum wifom. Don't be fine with your own lynch.

[Nahdia]

In a vacuum I'm not sure how I'd read that and I really try not to confbias but since I've PoE'd you it's bad scum wifom.

[Nahdia]

They've been constantly at each others throats and Ice is a brand new player and Kain is... Kain.

In particular there was a post from yesterday (I'd quote but phone posting) where Kain demanded Ice claim with three votes on him. If Kain is indeed claimtrolling scum, him being partners with Ice doesn't add up.

[Nahdia]

Wait Drixx are you suggesting they're partners?

[Nahdia]

Uhhhhh pretty sure they're not partners for reasons I explained. The basis of KT scum is him trolclaiming and the best example of him doing that is on Ice

[Nahdia]

Claim trolling*

[Nahdia]

Something I did have a question about though.

Nahdia, update your reads please and thank you.

MY THOUGHTS ARE STARS I CANNOT FATHOM INTO

CONSTELLATIONS

READS.

Not a big fan of huge reads posts so much as I am giving my thoughts as I go (which I've done) but here's the gist of where I stand on this table. Pretty sure you can find me giving thoughts on just about everyone if you ISO me so I'm not going to reiterate in detail here. Read me if you want my thoughts ya lazy bones -_-

Town

Clumsy
Kain

BlueTrin
PhantomCobalt

Drixx
Bitten10minutesago

Ice³
Dwlee99

Scum

Drixx is obvstown honestly. Ice idk and Clumsy I have no reason really to doubt but we'll see

I have varying degrees of townreads on you, Drixx, and Clumsy. If I'm right, there's at least one scum in the two votes that are up.

But Ice and Kain interacted a decent bit. Do you think they could possibly be partners based on that? Open question to everyone. I'm rereading both of them right now.

What caused the shift in moving Drixx to obv town? I know a lot of time passed in that, but I just wanna know the though process.

Did you read the end of d1?

My major problem with Drixx is he seemed cautious. He stopped being cautious.

[Nahdia]

My cautious I mean like, too afraid to out any solid reads. Which he stopped doing and started bleeding town out of every orifice.

[Nahdia]

And yes I snark everyone but I do try to participate and give content as well. Sorry I didn't really play into your reaction test better, but a townflip causes me to re-evaluate everything and you're my most tenuous townread so I was kind of put off to see you weren't actually generating any of your own content as your entrance to the day.

[Nahdia]

Well, it was supposed to be a reaction test. Didn't really get anything out of it though. A lynch on you isn't going to happen today, plus you're the most experienced and least likely to slip, therefore I picked you as the subject of this. I wanted to see if anyone else would try to hop on, or if anyone went out of their way to defend you. I didn't really get anything good out of it it seems though. Specifically I was looking to get something out of Nahdia. It seems that I need to study how to do reaction tests a bit more, because I got nothing out of this one. Something to work on for me.

Also, I've been busy with work lately. Sincere apologies, I was much more active in my last game. I'm sorry. :/

However, there is something that's bothering me that I want to put out there. There are 2 scum in this game. That's an auto 2 votes against any wagon that isn't scum (in theory, in a vacuum, yada yada). It is inherently easier to get a wagon going on non-scum than on scum because of this. Also, in my last game, I had pretty much everyone convinced I was obv. town. That led me to winning the game as scum. So I'm wary of any lynch being easy. PC may be an exception (as well as Kain and Ice, seriously, it would be a lot different if this wasn't a thing going on).

A little more explaining as to why I was trying for a reaction: When I first made that post, I was actually thinking about the possibility of a Nahdia/Drixx scum team. Not like "THAT'S THE SCUM, LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH" but something to consider. I know preflip associations are meh, but it can't hurt to think about. At the time of posting, I wanted to see what Nahdia would say if Drixx was called out. I got (no offence) snark back from her. Which is not out of character for her. But, that was almost what I was looking for. To my memory, I could recall Nahdia being pretty snarky to just about everyone. Except Drixx. So if she was snarky to me, leaving only Drixx out... could be a tell. Unfortunately, looking back, I saw some snark when I looked back, mainly in 276. So I got nothing basically.

Something I did have a question about though.

Nahdia, update your reads please and thank you.

MY THOUGHTS ARE STARS I CANNOT FATHOM INTO

CONSTELLATIONS

READS.

Not a big fan of huge reads posts so much as I am giving my thoughts as I go (which I've done) but here's the gist of where I stand on this table. Pretty sure you can find me giving thoughts on just about everyone if you ISO me so I'm not going to reiterate in detail here. Read me if you want my thoughts ya lazy bones -_-

Town

Clumsy
Kain

BlueTrin
PhantomCobalt

Drixx
Bitten10minutesago

Ice³
Dwlee99

Scum

Drixx is obvstown honestly. Ice idk and Clumsy I have no reason really to doubt but we'll see

I have varying degrees of townreads on you, Drixx, and Clumsy. If I'm right, there's at least one scum in the two votes that are up.

But Ice and Kain interacted a decent bit. Do you think they could possibly be partners based on that? Open question to everyone. I'm rereading both of them right now.

What caused the shift in moving Drixx to obv town? I know a lot of time passed in that, but I just wanna know the though process.

I also note that Nahdia and Drixx seem to be defending each other as the game goes on. Just something I observed, I'll make a list if I get around to that.


Onto other things, first off I think we should hold off on hammering just yet. We need to discuss more. Kain and Ice are next to impossible to really read right now, so I have no idea what to do with that. If we hang either of them, it might be a waste of a lynch, a day, and push us into a bad position. If we don't, it's still LyLo bait. I wish Ice was more active here.

I could kind of see BlueTrin as scum, but meh.

At this point, I don't really have a clue as to who is actually scum. I think I might have to move on to associations to think about it, as unreliable as pre-flip associations are. But it's something I can do. But off the top of my head, that points me to Nahdia/Drixx again. Ugh. I'm going to have to re-read. Again.

I make a much better scum player than a town player it seems.

I don't think changing your behavior when pressured is necessarily an alignment tell; more of a personality tell. Sure, PC didn't change much when under pressure. But I, on the other hand, definitely do. I'm often prone to coasting especially in larger games but if I'm ever called out for it I tend to immediately try to generate content regardless of my alignment. That in mind I don't care much about how he changed behavior, I care about whether he looked genuine later on in the day. To me, he absolutely did once he came into his own in the game. There was solid progression and maybe I'm underestimating the dude but I don't think scum would have the balls to push on someone they know will flip town like that and also declare they're going to be the kill. With my earlier playstyle read on Drixx being that he borders on a sort of timid player I reeeally don't think we'd see that from scum!Drixx.

[Nahdia]

At this point I'd rather get KT today btw if it comes down to those two. I know bussing should be expected but having Blue and Kain both voting Ice so close together makes me nervous. And I think there's a better case for Kain being scum... I've honestly kind of lost sight on what the original wagon on Ice was able about besides pressuring the dude to make content.

[Nahdia]

I feel ya. It's totes nerve-wracking that the two players up for lynch are sorta the "weaker" players for lack of a better word. That's part of why I suggested a vote outside them on BlueTrin but I haven't gotten any feedback on that. And you're right, an Ice flip gives us little. In those two though I think flipping Kain is more worthwhile in terms of both information garnered and him being scummier. Your thoughts, Clumsy? You seem reluctant to vote either way which I can appreciate but you gotta have some stances

[Nahdia]

@Drixx tomorrow morning. im just about to go to bed

[Nahdia]

Thoughts on people:

Ice³

Difficult to know based on his lackluster input. Purely from PoE I think there's a distinct possibility he's scum but the willingness to lynch him without solid reasons (lots of votes for the sake of "pressure") both yesterday and today is a red flag. If he's scum with anyone besides KT he's likely being coached. But the sorts of questions he's asked in thread might suggest he's on his own (such as just now his question about claiming). I still absolutely maintain he and KT aren't partners. What's going on between them really doesn't look like distancing to me, but the smoking gun so to speak is 383. Here Ice³ asks if scum is able to vote for other scum

and he had already been voting KainTepes long before this

. Unless you think Ice³ is strategically dropping fake noobtells in order to fool us, which I think is only a possibility if his partner ISN'T KainTepes, I'm fairly convinced that at least was genuine.

BlueTrin

As I've said, scum by PoE. My posting after the 530 mark was clearly overreactive because I was trying to sort him and spark discussion outside the easy "lurker lynches" but some of my points there stand. There's a couple things I don't like about his play regardless of that though. The first is his "I'm okay with being lynched as long as it's beneficial to town" schtick. I tend to scumread this over and over because town really doesn't want to get lynched. I've seen players do this before on EM but 90% of the time it ends up being scum wifom. The second is his repeated insistence that KainTepes can't be read. Yes, he can. There's plenty to read KT on. BlueTrin even pointed out yourself when Ice was scumreading him that KT has in fact scumhunted. Don't want to get too deep into pre-flip associations here but if BlueTrin is scum, I could absolutely see him teaming with KT and trying to play up the "unreadable" factor as a way of defending his partner without outright townreading him.

KainTepes

I liked his content early on though I'll admit I am in fact prone to townreading gimmick posters like people who speak in caps. Perhaps that lead to confbias when I said he was town for his read on me, but looking back I still think that was a decent conclusion to make at the time. As the game goes on though, Kain seems really willing to jump on just about everyone and as I explained, it looks like he's actually trying to make people claim. Best example is post 252. That in mind, his earlier scumread on me could of just been flippant shade throwing which scum is prone to do without thinking. Definitely a candidate for scum.

Clumsy

I was wary of him after day 1 specifically because people have said a few times that his last game where he was scum, he was marked by everyone as obvious town. Not to mention I've sort of lost track of what exactly I was townreading him based on... I like his posts a lot today though. Lots of reasoning and I the tone is good; paranoia/frustration with his own reads he's expressing fits right now and I'd be lying if I didn't say I was feeling a bit of the same way.

Dwlee99

Weakest townread but still a townread. I feel like his reaction to the wagon on him d1 was solid, where he talked about "solving the game". Bold statement to make if you're a scum pushing a town while you have a wagon on you. Though the PC push ended up being on town, I still buy the conviction. Scum pushing on a town often have a natural tendency to backtrack a little bit since they know they have to recover the next day after lynching a town. Besides that all I've really got to say is gut/tonal stuff. Posts like 405, 411, and 772 COULD be faked but I just... am calling that they're not.

Drixx

Towny. I liked his early game where he was outting a lot of thought process but what rubbed me the wrong way was seeming lack of reads. Lots of thoughts, no conclusions/pushes. When he did push though it was either town or a freaking Oscar performance. I explained this a few posts back but essentially the switch in attitude sold me. I got the feeling Drixx is a more cautious, timid player, but for him to then start making incredibly strong statements such as he's positive of his scumread and is calling himself as the kill... I don't see it from scum!Drixx. I absolutely loathe meta because it's consistently been used to read me wrong and can go either way especially for players who tend to switch themselves up, but consistency & attitude within one game is absolutely something I read for.

[Nahdia]

Holy moly what a terrible reaction

[Nahdia]

Discredit more please. And I don't really do the whole "massive wall of quotes/casing" thing cause I already know if I did you would handwave it by saying confbias (which by the way you accusing me of having implies you're suggesting I'm town).

[Nahdia]

Cut the crap dude you're never going to lay down and just say "lynch me for the good of the town!" that crap is just an act and it's obvious when you get "annoyed" that sometime has made points against you

[Nahdia]

Don't mind the bad AtE, KainTepes

[Nahdia]

Dude BlueTrin I made a case for why you're scummy I'm not building a case around the usefulness of your flip that's a dumb demands and I'm not doing it so step off

[Nahdia]

I call it like I see it dude. You're straight up AtE'ing right now. Not that town can't AtE, but scum do it just as much as town.

[Nahdia]

Dude I've been "snippy" with everyone

[Nahdia]

Sigh. Out of game comment here. Just throwing it out there I really don't have a problem with anyone. I know I tend to come off as really abrasive and rude and I'm sorry if I upset anyone. I enjoy playing aggressive because it's a natural stance for me and I find I'm read as unnatural or awkward if I attempt to play otherwise. Really though I'm sorry if I piss anyone off. I don't dislike anyone it's just how I am. I'm naturally unpleasant.

[Nahdia]

I've given the reasons I scumread him what more do you waaaaaanntt? A confirmation bias ridden analysis of his posts? I'll try later tonight or tomorrow I guess.

[Nahdia]

Whether it is me or Clumsy, we were wary about Drixx and I am sure that clumsy would consider you potentially Scum: you, you just focus on my since d1. No matter what I say I get a snippy comment about how scummy it is. and yesterday when you appeared after Clumsy called you and I thought you were lurking you suddenly defend yourself by calling me names and shutting me off. Then call it a reaction test.

If you are town, I'll be really annoyed. If you are not, then I guess it kind of works since I am the only annoyed getting pissed off.

I really haven't focused on you in particular and the fact that you think so shows a really really defensive posture. I've called out EVERYONE on stuff, you just have some silly victim complex or you're scum. Or both.

And jesus christ how many times do I have to say it?

PRESENCE OR NON-PRESENCE, IE "LURKING", IN THE GAME IS VERY VERY RARELY ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE. PEOPLE HAVE LIVES WHICH PREVENT THEM FROM BEING A CONSTANT PRESENCE IN GAMES. STOP TRYING TO SCUMREAD PEOPLE FOR NOT CONSTANTLY CREATING CONTENT. PEOPLE WILL VERY LIKELY RESPOND WHEN THEY IN PARTICULAR ARE MENTIONED BECAUSE THEY JUST DIDN'T HAVE INPUT THAT WAS WORTH THEIR TIME BEFORE. THIS IS LITERALLY NEVER AN ALIGNMENT TELL. BOTH TOWN AND SCUM DO IT ALL THE TIME.

[Nahdia]

dang guys it's been 16 hours since BlueTrin has posted, CLEARLY HE'S LURKING AND THEREFORE IS SCUM LET'S ALL VOTE HIM.

see how fucking stupid that sounds?

[Nahdia]

Some observations from BlueTrin's ISO:

BT seems to really come into the game around 303 where he townreads me and scumreads Dwlee, then votes him. Notably he also lists PC as null. Also he borrows from my points (from his own admission) and straight-up appeals to me at the end of the post

(Nahdia, you will notice that this is very similar to Clumsy's list, but I am not gonna lie just to look different, should I ?)

Post 334 BT says he doesn't like PC's style and that he's seen PC get lynched as town for playing like this. So if he is meta-reading he should have PC as town or null (which he does at this point).

335, 370, and 372 all seem to cement BT's scumread on Dwlee since he's pointing out scummy stuff Dwlee is doing. But then he inexplicably extends a branch for Dwlee and switches his vote

OFF HIS SCUMREAD AND SHEEPS HIS NULLREAD TO VOTE PC

. Seriously, there's no exaggeration there. There isn't like, a 100 post skip or a day of absence for him to think over. This is in post 375,

six minutes

after he was just pushing Dwlee.

I point out in 397 I'm having trouble following BT's logic. BT says that PC played the exact same way last game he played with him and was lynched as town in lylo. He then says

I would like him to speak more, but I suspect he just won't.

So in summary BT sheeping his scumread to apply pressure to someone that, by meta, he should be townreading (and he has previous said is null) even though

he thinks PC won't respond to the pressure anyway.

402 BT promises to rethink his vote. Actions speak louder than words though; he never rethinks. Easily just scum trying to appear to have a town mindset. In post 430 he again says he'll rethink tomorrow.

409 Claims Ice scumslipped (doesn't push on it at all though). I don't know about here but back on EM, trying to assert something is a scumslip that isn't necessarily was a really reliable scumtell. I really don't see how what Ice said was a scumslip at all. Could be either alignment based on it easily.

419 BT warns people of AtE, which is notable because today when I called him out for AtE he accused me of mud slinging.

490 BT has now completely abandoned his scumread on Dwlee and is "ready to hammer PC or Ice" (the two lurkers). I also want to point out there's a lot of appeasement coming from him in this post (saying he agrees with another player or commending someone's good points is often subtle pocketing).

In his next few posts, 499 & 505 he starts to hurry people along and treats the vote as locked. But then in 519 BT says (while appealing to Clumsy..?) he's doubting the lynch. But in the very same post he's talking about PC's flip as if it's an inevitability. 522 shows impatience for the day to end.

In 528 I voice a budding scumread on BT. BT's

immediate

reaction in 529 is to scumread me. But he also backtracks in the very same post by saying he's not sure if the scumtell he's using is valid. Very half-hearted, non-committal scumread. In post 533 BT claims he has always scumread me. This is inconsistent with post 303; he had me as town there. And since then he hasn't voiced a single concern with me and has even appealed to me/commended my points.

I go on the point out that BT still hasn't reviewed his vote, which is a sheep of his scumread's scumread, after I myself have asked him multiple times to reassert it. Note that back in 519 BT said he wasn't sure on PC, but now in 556 he's starts giving me reasons which all boil down to "isn't giving content". Which again, was his original reason for voting; to force PC to respond. But BT by his own admission has played a game with PC where PC played just like this and he was town. So why is he so ready to hammer PC here????

Post 567 is weird and I have trouble seeing the town motivation. He says he'll blindly sheep me if I have an alternative wagon, even if it's on himself. Putting aside whether saying you're willing to be lynched is scummy or not (I think it is), he's essentially trying to decline any responsibility for the vote. 599 is more of this "you take all the responsibility" crap.

615 he asks me to read a KT post. When I say it's null, he says in 617 that he may of read too much into it. In other words, he had a read on it which he didn't share and again puts all the responsibility on me. The fact that he had a strong read on a KT post is also really important because back in 303 and then way later on in post 775 he asserts Kain is unreadable. Major inconsistency here.

Post 626 is out of character; BT defends me here randomly. Appeasement.

In summary for d1; BT sheeps his scumread's vote despite meta telling him PC is town. He promises to rethink his vote but after being poked multiple times to do so his reasons boil down to his original reason for voting all of which he said on multiple occasions were things PC had done before as town. Really really inconsistent. I'd really like to know how exactly BT's read on Dwlee evolved here because there's absolutely 0 logical progression I'm following.

Day 2 really hasn't been any better for him. Despite what's going on around him he's taken 0 stances on the proposed lynches. 776 is a scumtell from my playbook; giving "proposed" logic from the kill.

The major inconsistency from BT today though is, again, his vote. He's voting Ice, the guy who has lurked excessively.

HOWEVER

, when I've scumread him, his defense is that I need to create an argument that explains why his flip will give us information allowing us to win the game as town. FLIPPING ICE AS OUR LYNCH GIVES US THE MINIMUM POSSIBLE INFORMATION.

Huge

inconsistency between the way he's playing on offense and the way he's playing on defense. His Ice vote is poor; I've looked and he's never once given a reason for the vote. Is it just another vote to hope the pressure gets someone to post? That's exactly the excuse he used yesterday to lynch town and he really hasn't rethought?

Posts 779, 800, 806 all subtly paint me as scum (in particular "If you are town, I'll be really annoyed"). Post 793 however actually paints me as town; for someone to suffer confirmation bias they need to be town since scum obviously knows they're full of crap. Even so, if he does scumread me, he's continuing to vote for Ice, the "easy" lynch target and the person who gives us the very least information (NOTE: The Bitten flip is actually similar in this regard), despite having no reasoning behind the vote. His motivations aren't to lynch scum; they're the make the best possible lynches FOR scum.

[Nahdia]

BT I'm sorry if I'm annoying you and if I'm wrong on this but it's hard for me to not feel like I'm onto something here. There's a LOT of inconsistency between your votes and your actions and I'm just really not buying it. I'm absolutely willing to listen to BlueTrin or anyone who has sound reasons that BT is town, but I'm not going to be happy if it's just a handwave and "confirmation bias". Confirmation bias can taint reads, yes, but it means anything that was pointed out with that mindset

has an alternate explanation I'm not seeing

and that's really what I need to hear at this points.

[Nahdia]

between your votes and your posts*

[Nahdia]

I don't want to lynch Ice, I think he's going to flip town because I don't think BlueTrin is bussing here. If we HAVE to lynch in KT and Ice which seems to be the cross being made I'll vote for KT, but I would really appreciate if people would actually look at my case on Blue since I think it's really solid and he's absolutely a good lynch candidate.

[Nahdia]

335, 370, and 372 all seem to cement BT's scumread on Dwlee since he's pointing out scummy stuff Dwlee is doing. But then he inexplicably extends a branch for Dwlee and switches his vote

OFF HIS SCUMREAD AND SHEEPS HIS NULLREAD TO VOTE PC

. Seriously, there's no exaggeration there. There isn't like, a 100 post skip or a day of absence for him to think over. This is in post 375,

six minutes

after he was just pushing Dwlee.

Clarification here since I typo'd; he switches his vote off his scumread and ends up sheeping said scumread to vote his nullread; PC.

[Nahdia]

Don't feel the need to respond to most of that, pretty sure my points still speak for myself. a couple replies/clarifications though:

334 is not mine, but if you are talking about 303, I read PC as null.

Was talking about 344 mb.

I wanted to hear more from him and his reaction was weird. At this point, I would have liked you to tell me you thought he was town when you made your reaction test, if you wanted to have switched vote, I would have done so with you as I said many times at the end of D1. Unlike you, I am unsure of my reads.

I did tell you why I thought he was town. I'm not sure what "reaction test" you're referring you, but I thought he was town specifically because of YOUR push on him. You say you're unsure of your reads, but I've never really seen anything except informed uncertainty. That is, you say "I'm not really sure" but you never move to unvote and in the following posts continue to encourage people to hammer. You don't actually seem unsure at all.

Then I noticed that in his early games he used to talk more when he was scummy.

Soo... you should have unvoted him if you found contrary meta???

I didn't like his reaction at the time, I don't think anybody but you thought he was town, he didn't post any info, even though he was voted in advance of the evening.

You never said anything about his reaction yesterday iirc. When you finally responded to my continual requests for you to reassess your vote, you sited "he's not giving any info" which basically just goes back to "he's not posting" which is what you voted him for in the first place. If you had discussed his reaction in particular that would be one thing, but you never did. And again, I wasn't reading him based on him. I read him based on how others were acting around his wagon and thought it was likely he was town; his own posts could have gone either way for me because of the dirth. However when you started talking about how you would lynch yourself I became unsure of my thoughts on you and decided to go ahead with the PC lynch because I figured there was a chance the people pushing him really were town and PC was actually scum. THAT was my trepidation.

This is my post below, I even say myself this is possibly not a scum slip but naive wording. Again, you choose to read things only so they fit your frame.

So you backtracked in the course of one post? Because that's totally towny, sure. You threw it out as a possible slip; that still fits the bill when it really didn't appear to be a slip at all to me.

I found this confusion you created at the end of D1 really annoying, the worst part is that you claim it was a reaction test and refused to give your opinion on who we should vote, but just kept calling me names.

Reaction test is inaccurate. I just felt the lynches going on were too easy so I tried to divert attention. But no one was having it and like I previously said, I actually started to doubt whether my feelings that the wagon had a lot of scum on it. So I decided to let the lynch go through.

I found Dwlee exchange with Drixx quite convincing. At this point I wasn't sure, I would have liked to have guidance from you since you sounded like you had a problem with me changing my vote.

No. You were pushing reasons he was scum in one post, and then THREE POSTS LATER you sheep his vote. There was no interaction with Drixx in that time slot. It was a 6 minute gap in which there were two Dwlee posts. If you truly found those Dwlee posts so incredibly towny that's what you should of pointed to.

I find your attitude strange, you keep saying that my decisions are bad but you never lift a finger and do anything.

Completely inaccurate mudslinging.

I didn't want the day to end on a no lynch and I didn't know what to do, so I wanted some advice from you, since you were making so much noise, why didn't you ask me to move my vote on your best scum read ?
Are we not trying to find scum ? What's the point of not telling your opinion if you don't believe PC is scum !
This is what I find annoying with you. If you want something to be done, then get it done, what's wrong with that ?

The only thing I wanted to avoid is a no lynch. If that would have happened, I think you would have been all over me for making people switching votes before the deadline, isn't it ?

You come, say that I am idiot for voting PC and refuse to give your opinion about who we should vote ? Are you always so obtuse ? It is easy to criticise, come with solutions and alternatives, not just bitching around, it does not help anything.

See, this is another inconsistency about your attitude. As d1 draws to a close you start saying I'm suspicious and hinting at a scumread on me, but you continually try to defuse all the responsibility for a lynch onto me. Why would I give my scumread an out and tell him what to do? I was pushing on you. I said so at the time; the person I want to lynch is you. Stop acting like I gave 0 alternative; that's a flat out lie. But through your posts at the time I doubted myself and ended up and let the PC lynch go through.

It is funny you treat this as an inconsitency, my opinion changes, the only people who know who is scum are the scum themselves.
If you don't reassert your opinions then we might as well stop at D1 and just blindly vote from there.
The only thing I would check in KT is who he has not put to L-1 or hammered if I thought he was scum. His posting style makes it too easy to fake posts. He can literally post 5 votes on different people and nobody will listen to him,

this is why I wouldn't read too much on every of his posts.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID. YOU READ TOO MUCH INTO A SINGLE POST. THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING IT'S AN INCONSISTENCY. YOUR THEORYPOSTING AND YOUR SCUMREADS AREN'T CONSISTENT WITH EACH OTHER.

Also, I told you already, I don't like your reactions, I think you were actually doing what you accuse me of and prepare me for a d2 lynch. It may be a coincidence that you logged in right after Clumsy asked for your opinion and ignored all the other posts before, but that seems a bit too much of a coincidence.

No, it's not a coincidence. Either you continually misunderstand or you're just resisting the actual definition I've laid out for you. I didn't post because I had nothing relevant to say. Then Clumsy calls me by name so I decide to post in response. I have a lot of things to do as well as multiple games I'm in so I'm not going to give a constant stream of conscious. I check up on the thread and if there's anything I feel like replying to I reply, if there's anything I'm dying to say, I say it. That's how I have always and will always play.

I don't understand why you think I should have unvoted when you propose no alternative.

Never said you needed to unvote, I said you needed to EXPLAIN YOUR VOTE which you didn't.

I don't understand why you think I should not have been convinced by Dwlee.

You never said you were convinced by anything about him in particular. There was nothing you ever said which outted logic on your flip on Dwlee. And even now you're just recycling Drixx's opinions; it's lazy.

I don't understand why your had this reaction test right before the end of D1 instead of taking my offer to move my vote when we could have changed our votes.

I wanted you lynch, I wasn't going to make a fucking deal with you.

The fact that you chose to read all of the above to frame your scum reads instead of wondering whether I am scum makes me believe you are scum, this is why I will put my vote on you, I don't believe this is a town vs town fight.

This is honestly damning. You spent the entire post defending yourself and now suddenly OMGUS me at the very end. Nothing you've pointed out is logic for why I should be scum except this quote, which is honestly really weak logic. I don't think you should be seeing me as scum here especially considering you've appealed to me all game.

I'd really like some other opinions on Blue's posting here because of possible confbias but to me it reads like caught scum through and through. The OMGUS doesn't make sense to me from a town perspective. You never addressed my assertion that there's heavy inconsistency between your votes and your posts, which is essentially my biggest point. I'd really like to know why you're town here because what you're doing feels like a last ditch effort to force this into a 1v1. A couple hours ago you were perfectly content to lynch Ice, who has continued to give nothing and will give no content, but now you're moving off him to vote the person who is scumreading you.

What sells me though is this. Assuming Ice is town, which we've now both said, scum clearly wants him lynched. He's lurked and his flip will tell us next to nothing (something you've tried to use a defense for yourself but seem to forget when pushing others). Now, you tried to get Ice lynched quickly today with next to no discussion. I could of let this happen, but instead I'm raising hell and putting myself in the line of fire by forcing this cross. I see scum leading a wagon on yet another lurker and I'm putting a stop to that. If that isn't goddamn evidence I'm town then I don't know what the hell will convince anyone.

[Nahdia]

evidence that I'm town and you're not*

[Nahdia]

Care to explain, since you literally never did, why you voted Ice today? You put him at L-1 but have 0 reasons provided for why you would do such a thing.

[Nahdia]

Dwlee did you read my case? :c

[Nahdia]

of course i conf biased... i went through his ISO looking for reasons BlueTrin is scum and presented everything i got, that's why i wanted others to review it. i think i have some really really solid points though about the people he's voting for and the motivations he seems to have. i really really do think he's scum here

p-edit: bless

[Nahdia]

dude im so hungover and reading that in my head was actually painful could you not

[Nahdia]

probably useless asking this but what makes you so sure Ice is scum, KainTepes? It feels likely to me he's town based on the wagon lined up on him

[Nahdia]

Kain he could literally say the exact same thing about you lol.

[Nahdia]

[Nahdia]

Ice did you read my case on BlueTrin? thoughts on that? we know you think KainTepes is scum, but who else?

[Nahdia]

Then will you vote BlueTrin with me? I'm more sure on him and would prefer that we lynch him first. Kain is kind of odd and though I do think I have a read on him, ideally we have a couple more flips to better sort him.

[Nahdia]

Dwlee is voting BT btw. This is L-1.

[Nahdia]

I don't have time to respond to all that right now. I'm really sorry if you are town, BlueTrin, but the mantra I say to myself at times like these is that everyone towntells with the hammer over their head.

In case I die tonight:
If BlueTrin is scum, KainTepes ought to be the next lynch.
If BlueTrin is town, Kain is still a decent candidate but my next guess for who to watch closely is Dwlee. We came so close to lynching him d1 and then got diverted onto PC I'd be pretty sour with myself if he ends up winning as scum.

[Nahdia]

On the other hand Clumsy, if we get to d3 and all we've flipped is lynch bait like PC and Ice/KT then we've got very little good information to go on.

[Nahdia]

dwlee gets 5 Lylo Points™ for breaking the silence

Dwlee: 5
Drixx: 0
Ice: 0
KainTepes: 0

[Nahdia]

hey man. how was your night lol?

[Nahdia]

i punched my bookcase and then a book fell on my head.

[Nahdia]

I was waiting for someone to do it yeah

[Nahdia]

I feel pretty freaking awkward right about now not gonna lie.

i went over my read about Kain and Ice not being partners and i still agreed with my findings BUT THEN I'VE BEEN WRONG BEFORE OBVIOUSLY.

lmao nice

[Nahdia]

this is the worst because normally at times like this i'd just be like "ok i suck ill just sheep obvious town or let the clear decide and shut up or whatever" but no such luck.

being town SUCKS

p-edit: i felt too awkward to do so :I

[Nahdia]

I've had obvious scum be town. Case in point

[Nahdia]

lmfao most of my fucking reads were based on BlueTrin being scum god dammit dude

[Nahdia]

I am not.

Dwlee do you have any finished games as scum? I loathe meta but I'm also desperate and wanna check something.

[Nahdia]

are you... gonna make me just look for them in your post history? game names at least? :c

Town: {}
Nulltown: {Dwlee99}
Null: {Drixx, Ice}
Nullscum: {KainTepes}
Scum: {}

nothing is certain.

[Nahdia]

META SUCKS. THIS IS USELESS.

(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

[Nahdia]

and you don't even claim.

I see you flippin' red tbh

if you're scum you should self-hammer

meh

Using Ranger notation

+SCUM+
Nahdia, Ice

Dwlee

Drixx, KainTepes
Clumsy
{}
+TOWN+

Based on gut feeling from the last interactions.
Can't tell if Drixx is town or scum manipulating us.

Dwlee and Ice changed their vote on me easily this is why I rate them scummy. Even though I find Ice scummy, I doubt he can be scum with Nahdia, and I think I have been framed by Nahdia to look like the perfect villain, so Ice may be town ?

Don't know why I put Clumsy town when I think about it, there were not much interaction from him in the past days and he waited aside without giving an opinion.

It's bedtime here so this is my last post, typing this from a phone in bed.

this is bs and your explanation is shit

I found Dwlee exchange with Drixx quite convincing.

lol

lol wot?

It's bedtime here so this is my last post, typing this from a phone in bed.

two hours later o3o

do u do this as scum

[Nahdia]

i gotta jet. looking forward to day entrances from my favorite lurker and my favorite caps spammer. also drixx. he's also a person.

[Nahdia]

Nah let's hear it

[Nahdia]

So current ways this game could be:

Town₁:
Vanilla
Vanilla
Vanilla

Mafia₁:
Goon
Goon

Town₂:
1-Shot BP
Vanilla
Vanilla

Mafia₂:
Roleblocker
Goon

also u lost 2 Lylo Points for this post and are now at 3

[Nahdia]

I didn't like the post. Scum are often the first to talk in detail about setup and mechanics because they are informed and feel it's an easy way to contribute without actually making any moves on anyone in the game. So you lost two lylo points and are now at 3. Still in the plus my pal. No worries

[Nahdia]

I SAID DWLEE AND ICE FROM BEGININNG,, I AM SO ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!!

you did? I feel like you didn't. I'd iso but phone posting and appointment in like 30 seconds

[Nahdia]

you didn't say Ice until like 218 but close enough.

[Nahdia]

We lynch outside of Drixx today. He's a potential clear if we lynch a roleblocker.

I already gave my current mindset earlier but with recent developments hmm. The BP claim really fits; it now makes sense why he harped on being the kill. Drixx gains 7 lylo points.

However that makes me way more cautious of Dwlee. He may be laying it on thick. More thoughts to come when I have time, sorry. Pretty busy atm

[Nahdia]

Who are you asking, Kain? This feels like an attempt to diffuse responsibility/appear to be a "team player". KainTepes loses 3 lylo points. If you're really that sure why are you asking?

[Nahdia]

It's me. I'm the ruse master. You are an unwitting passanger aboard my ruse cruise.

[Nahdia]

what spelling mistake

[Nahdia]

do you just have no opinion on me or..? =P

[Nahdia]

oh I see me I'm snuck in there

[Nahdia]

Ok here's where I'm at

I have this game split into the Dwlee/Drixx bracket and the Ice/Kain bracket. I've been saying I don't think Ice & Kain are partners but my confidence has been shaken on that a bit. Yes, it's possible that one of them just said to the other "hey let's just vote each other all game" in scum chat and they're rolling with it. It's hard to judge either one as genuine. It's just not a game plan I would expect to come from either one of them.

Dwlee & Drixx on the other hand I looked into the possibility of being together and found page 18 where they have this dialog and Drixx becomes convinced Dwlee is town. It doesn't feel too awkward but again it's something I really wouldn't expect coming from that team. Both Dwlee and Drixx come off as smart players and if they were to be buddying as a scumteam I would expect a bit more... subtly. Maybe I'm being naive as hell, I don't know. Their interaction just really doesn't read like two scum townreading each other. Usually that sort of thing has hints to it and I see none of them.

My Ice townread was based on the qualifier that BlueTrin was scum, so that's out the window. I'm kind of concerned about Drixx saying he'd lynch me in a f3 between Dwlee, myself, and him because it kind of seems like that's where we're headed but I guess cross that bridge when we come to it?

I would rather lynch in Kain/Ice today since I think the likelihood of them being partners is greater than Dwlee/Drixx. I've felt Dwlee and Drixx are both town lately and if I'm willing to stake my game on at least one of those reads being right. I'm really really interested to hear Dwlee's thoughts though because there is a couple things still worrying me and I think his stance will be telling.

[Nahdia]

dwlee gains 2 lylo points

[Nahdia]

ok to be upfront I was being kind of sneaky. I'm a bit worried about Dwlee/Drixx so I kind of gave my thoughts in a manner that was meant to leave the door open for Dwlee to posture towards Ice/Kain but he seems to actually be considering everything and not just encouraging a vote in those two to seal a victory. that's what i meant by "Dwlee's response is going to be telling", it was kind of a bait. good job u didn't take the bait.

[Nahdia]

what makes me paranoid is posts like this

lol so drixx/nahdia which one of you is tricking me?

[Nahdia]

needless paranoia posting "lol look at me im so unsure im town". i for one hold my cards closer to my chest. could be real but very very easily faked.

[Nahdia]

my posts have substance though and that doesn't?

[Nahdia]

my point is that it's just an empty post. all it can possibly do is help posture a bit. it's the sort of post scum gives to "set the tone" without actually saying anything. town makes these kinds of posts sometimes, but I see the scum motivation behind them which is why I brought it up.

[Nahdia]

town isn't purposefully setting the tone, they're just kind of blank posting out of frustration.*

p-edit: damn right i am

[Nahdia]

this would be a lot easier if bluetrin had just stuck to the script and flipped scum

[Nahdia]

i still don't know how you were so sure of that i mean he was KINDA MAYBE SORTA scummy but i guess i can't judge. . .

[Nahdia]

dude kain and ice are totally the scum team aren't they holy frick

[Nahdia]

god DAMMIT if that's the case im gonna be so bad. overthought the fuck out of this game.

[Nahdia]

gonna be so mad*

[Nahdia]

yo why the FUCK did bitten die? what was the deal with that? he was scumreading Ice lmao.

[Nahdia]

Ice please post today thanks.

[Nahdia]

whoooops

I'm more intrigued to see how Ice does with some pressure on, so
VOTE: Ice

This is a pretty transparent excuse to vote somebody and while it doesn't immediately scream scum to me, if Ice³ is suddenly at L-1 and you aren't reviewing your vote I'm gonna be unhappy.

Sadly yes this is true that I have the lowest post count as I am quite busy irl at the moment and the reason I voted Kain was because of a gut suspicion and the point that he was acting quite strange so therefor it felt like the obvious choice to me. Also, bitten seems to mostly be trying to join the crowd of voting me for no other reason than to "see how Ice does with some pressure on" seems quite suspicious as well.

Look I get the busy thing, I'm pretty busy myself hence my shitty gameplay so far. I'm with you on that one.

But you've just dropped off completely, and now on returning this is your only response? Since you've been MIA there has been a lot of discussion about KT's meta and game play, do you have nothing to say about any of that? If you're planning on keeping your vote on KT (and you haven't indicated otherwise, so?), then convince me why he should be read as scum. There has already been plenty of discussion about him acting "quite strange", and gut suspicions tend to be fueled by things you're seeing but maybe don't know how to explain completely, so go back and read through his posts and really try to convince me he's scum.

There wasn't really a "crowd" voting you. There was Nahdia, and there was KT. I was personally disregarding KT's vote because I didn't believe it would stick for long (it hasn't). Blue made some good points about you that I agreed with, so I placed my vote with the intention of coming back and doing my own more in depth read on you later. I'm still hoping to get around to that, this just happened to catch my eye as I stopped by to check in.

I really did want to put pressure on you and gauge your response. I'm not satisfied with it, I think it's lazy and if you were really town you would be trying harder to scum hunt rather than just sheeping what others have said about me being suspicious in my vote for you.

Bitten10minutesago, Vanilla Townie, was Killed Night 1

It is now Day 2.

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch!

Deadline is at (expired on 2016-03-21 18:30:00).

VOTE: Kain

(wanted to check vote count first, on phone)

P-edit: While that's true, there's also the NK to give info. First priority is to hang scum, second consideration is info from a possible town flip. Ugh, I'll have to think more about it, but for right now, I'll keep my vote here.

Clumsy, Town Jailkeeper, was Killed Night 2

It is now Day 3.

With

5

alive, it takes

3

to lynch!

Deadline is at (expired on 2016-03-30 18:30:00).

[Nahdia]

if it's actually this simple im gonna scream