Newbie 1721 | Lightning | Endgame

[Zyf]

LMAO cheet and drixx
VOTE: Cheet for being too popular

So, to sonia/map wolf/smiles/frogoos-what's your general experience playing mafia (esp. forum)? I just find it's good info to have.
This is my second/third mafia game ever.

[Zyf]

Hey everyone, this is my first game on MS, but i do have somewhat of a plan for how i am going to play.

VOTE: Zyf
Because their name is too short.

"I have a plan for how I am going to play"
That's pretty much a given in any mafia game, except their are two main times where a pregame plan is extra important.
1) You're a PR
2) *You're scum*

The fact that you find it necessary to state you have a plan makes me think you put a notable chunk of effort in creating it and therefore are proud of it. But the thing is, scum needs full-on planning, while a PR can only go so far without the game started yet, due to a lower amount of information.

VOTE: mw
Also your nickname is shorter than mine so you're scummier than me since your nickname is even shorter

[Zyf]

gdi second post in and already a typo
*except

there

are two...

[Zyf]

hi Zyf!
I would like you to give me some words on this whole "plan"-thing. Specifically, I'd like you articulate whether you think Map Wolf would, as scum, say "I have a plan" referring to their scum plan.

It's not so much that they have a specific reason for citing that they have a scum plan, it's that in pregame there is virtually no merit in attempting to create such a plan (with enough work put in to want to say that you have one) unless you're scum, because then the game is solved for you and you're trying to survive with your partner.
iirc, most mafia threads are open in pregame.

Cheet I'm guessing your townread is yourself

[Zyf]

VOTE: Vote Transcend

Hello Hello everyone it's nice to meet you all and I am so ready for my first game on mafia scum now this isn't my first game on a forum mind you but it's gonna take me a bit to understand all of the lingo so whoops on that but I hope we can all have a great game
(Vote Transcend with me)

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... reviations
Ta-da.

[Zyf]

Oh this is towards me
So if I'm "confscum" why didn't you vote? It's not like it's a hammer or puts me at L-1.

[Zyf]

Jesus christ so this is what happens when more than 2 people are online

@Cheet-Because you're new and new people generally have a lot of energy. I certainly wouldn't expect it coming from Drixx or anything, but map is new to site.
Actually I just realized the whole reason I signed up was to see what happens if you claim mafia goon as your opening post. Unfortunately, it counts as against wincon regardless of alignment XD
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Performer because SE

Oh wait that wasn't to me.
UHHHH yeah cut cheet some slack because that totally looked like it was to me

[Zyf]

Oh right cheet who's your townread
witholding (or is it withholding, I don't even know any more because fuck autocorrect i turned it off) information is generally bad for town.

PEdit-Because you guys are already talking?
I did this last game too. Vote the experienced people who aren't talking yet.

[Zyf]

.
..
...
Wtf is that post sonia

[Zyf]

Oh right cheet who's your townread
witholding (or is it withholding, I don't even know any more because fuck autocorrect i turned it off) information is generally bad for town.

PEdit-Because you guys are already talking?
I did this last game too. Vote the experienced people who aren't talking yet.

fair nuff

but fypov the vote you made on MW looked somewhat legitimate

i could be misreading the context, but I think you genuinely thought his post deserved a vote for non RVS reasons

how come you evaded that vote to pursue another rvs vote?

Because I just realized how stupidly hypocritical when the sole reason I signed up here was to try and do a plan, namely claiming mafia. Cheet told me to get in scum shoes and that triggered it.
I think that my vote would simply also have made mw less inclined to share their plan with you and considering A) SE and B) I gotta go now I figured you can probably do more with him explaining his "plan" than I can do absent with his silence.

One more thing-mw vote was mainly because it felt slightly less random to vote someone I had a slight suspicion of than to vote someone random.
Ok i really gotta go now

PEdit-YES I GET IT THERE'S MORE POST MS SYSTEM BUT SERIOUSLY, when i click submit 4 times I expect to be able to post

[Zyf]

I would think tone doesn't exist because it'd be quite easy to fake the tone you're going for wouldn't you agree? I mean I guess you could say it is a thing but reading off it is another story

A faked tone is a tone nevertheless
you can catch people getting spiny when you start poking them too much and oftentimes that can be a real reaction
especially on newbies like me e.e
ok i really need to go now

[Zyf]

Hey everyone, this is my first game on MS, but i do have somewhat of a plan for how i am going to play.

VOTE: Zyf
Because their name is too short.

care to give us an idea about how you're going to play?

What i meant by plan wasn't very specific. More just a "i think i have somewhat of an idea what to do" post.

Reaffirming my unvote
sounds more just like newbie hype

[Zyf]

Well transcend in a mathematically perfect system sonia MUST be town because probabilty states that already the system is inbalnced too in favor of scum.

UNVOTE: cool, all the experienced people are here
VOTE: sonia wishywashy reads are better than no reads. I don't like it when people don't get involved because "I'm not sure yet"
Would vote mw but they've at least given me something
Also don't appreciate performer

stalking

"following" people, with people being just me. Also perhaps you can shed light on why in my gut i thought mw's initial reaction was kinda scummy?

[Zyf]

1st one is bad because you don't agree with my logic
2nd one is bad because...I voted someone inactive?
3rd one is bad because...I'm trying to pressure vote your friend?

Very interested in your justifications.
@Sonia-if everyone thought like you scum would just win due to no activity. I don't care about the validity of your reads, but I need to get a read on you.

Here are mine in order of confidence
Transcend is town because they're closing a lot of backtrack paths which normally afaik scum doesn't like doing
Performer is nullscum since they're doing the exact opposite of transcend and giving themselves a lot of safe space
Sonia (you) is nullscum because as soon as I vote you to try and get you to help me read you, you immediately become as spiny as f*** and deny me any opportunities to get you to talk.
UNVOTE: Are you willing to at least comment about something or talk to someone other than transcend now?
Cheet's tone just reads townie to me, but he's experienced so I'm not super sure on this one.
Mw is nulltown just due to vibes at this point though I don't particularly appreciate the tiptoeing.
Since sonia really fucking doesn't like me now, I'd be interested in at oeast seeing your reads, even if there's reasoning behind them other than tone/vibes. VOTE: mw
Lastly drixx null because they seem to just be doing IC things at this point (the speech, supporting the game/let's do this rally)
Others are null.

Fun fact: I vote people when I need stuff from them because otherwise people tend to ignore my shit
And it's really f***ing annoying

End-of-post reminder to transcend to explain why they think my other 2 votes are bad

[Zyf]

Alright i will come with my thoughts:
Note that i am not jumping to any conclusions here.

Cheet

He seems to just simply ask/vote vote people for information in order to catch them out, which hints towards town.

Drixx

He hasn't posted enough for enough knowledge.

Performer

His posts seem legit, as it is mostly adressing other posts.

Transcend

#75 seems somwhat scummy. Not much to add.

Sonia

I am kinda divided. By my instinct she somewhat scummy, or she just defends not coming with anything, which is think is somewhat normal.

Zyf

Seems decent in his logic. Leans a bit towards town.

froogoss

Seems inactive. Not much to add.

Smiles

Hasn't posted, although he did confirm to the mod.

As such i am going to VOTE: Smiles until they post.

Yay reads other than my own
UNVOTE: mw
Why is transcend scummy to you?

[Zyf]

Any vote that isn't on a wagon is essentially a vanity vote until more people vote for it. Announcing that you're making a pressure vote every time you're making a pressure vote defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place to some extent at least.

I use it more as a "Hey actually read what I post about you, skimming a**hole" because even if it's a pressure vote, it's a vote and it stands out pretty dang clearly from everything else you've put. It can also serve to emphasize the most important thought you have when you're posting wally stuff.

That being said, yes, it's less effective if you clear it as a pressure vote. I'm still going to use it.
And if you scumread me for it, screw you, I've explained myself already.

[Zyf]

Hi again Wolfman! You should talk to me with words about why you think #74 is scummy, specific things you like about zyf's logic and what it is about performer's responses that you think is legit! Bonus points if you use quotes/specifics.

#75

seemed (note, somewhat) scum because the votes were mostly just RVS. Thinking about it Zyfs explanation for voting Sonia up was pretty bad "3rd one is bad because...I'm trying to pressure vote your friend?" not sure what they meant.
Other than that Zyf has explained most of their decisions, that is what i think their logic is good. Most of their posts explain why they think so.

"Legit" might be a weird word choice, but there are no contradictions in Performers posts.

Alright i will come with my thoughts:
Note that i am not jumping to any conclusions here.

Cheet

He seems to just simply ask/vote vote people for information in order to catch them out, which hints towards town.

Drixx

He hasn't posted enough for enough knowledge.

Performer

His posts seem legit, as it is mostly adressing other posts.

Transcend

#75 seems somwhat scummy. Not much to add.

Sonia

I am kinda divided. By my instinct she somewhat scummy, or she just defends not coming with anything, which is think is somewhat normal.

Zyf

Seems decent in his logic. Leans a bit towards town.

froogoss

Seems inactive. Not much to add.

Smiles

Hasn't posted, although he did confirm to the mod.

As such i am going to VOTE: Smiles until they post.

The only reason I'm not voting you right now is because you're new to this (I think?) Voting people who don't talk will give almost no reads regarding the flip if we get mafia that's a lucky shot if we get town were ***d it's much better to vote in active players (you could also be voting a pr who can't claim)

I use these votes more as a signal more then a intent of lynch. I do agree that lynching someone who is inactive Day 1 is a bad idea. If it is important i may as well UNVOTE: Smiles.

The "...texttexttext?" means I'm trying to guess why the vote is bad
In other words, I don't get why the vote on sonia is bad in transcend's eyes.

Also how did cheet end up being most voted?

[Zyf]

oooo This is funnier then I thought entertaining even! I don't really hate anyone I just got the reactions I needed and I can safely VOTE: Cheet Now let me say I wanted to get some footing and see how people normally act when it comes to forums like this and it's kinda what I expected lots of filler until someone takes a step forward and does something. Now that I understand how this is going for the most part lets get going shall we?

Explanation?

[Zyf]

If you look at the context of where I'm saying that, it's directed at sonia, not you, silly goose q.q

huh?
This is what quotes are for cheet
they're very useful if you use them

[Zyf]

Drixx,

IC

you on a different thread.

Zyf was found bricked to death the next morning for bad puns.

[Zyf]

So here's a new chart I'm testing out

A couple of notes:
1) If you have 2 reads on a person, I will take the more positive one (e.g. Map Wolf conflicted whether Sonia's null or scum=null on the chart)
2) If I'm not sure on your read, the chart won't get updated; in other words, I really do prefer /explicit/ reads as opposed to tonal reactions (e.g. Cheet you're all null because I can't tell when you think someone's town and when you're just being nice)

Should I put dates in too?

[Zyf]

Drixx,

IC

you on a different thread.

Zyf was found bricked to death the next morning for bad puns.

I went to sleep and you guys postsplosioned the thread. I have my weekly DnD session in a couple hours, and it runs for 5 hours, so like almost all Tuesdays, expect me when I show up. And remember ... a wizard is never late or early. He arrives precisely when he intends to.

OK
I'm not going to lie here

I've been wanting to make that joke for the past 72 hours
just...let me have my moment
XD

[Zyf]

Justification for sonia vote?

[Zyf]

Fun fact: I vote people when I need stuff from them because otherwise people tend to ignore my shit
And it's really f***ing annoying

Admitting this makes people more likely to ignore your votes.

Possible drama for the sake of drama.

Or you know, making sure that people don't start internally scumreading me for using pressure votes

BTW, what's your FM experience?

[Zyf]

Justification for sonia vote?

Do you think she's town for the things I posted about?

Fun fact: I vote people when I need stuff from them because otherwise people tend to ignore my shit
And it's really f***ing annoying

Admitting this makes people more likely to ignore your votes.

Possible drama for the sake of drama.

Or you know, making sure that people don't start internally scumreading me for using pressure votes

BTW, what's your FM experience?

The first line in my post explains why you're being scumread for something other than "using" pressure votes.

I don't know what FM is.

1) No.
But there's a difference between FOSing someone, scumreading them, and voting them. Voting in particular. Why vote them as opposed to me?

2) You indicate that I'm weakening the purpose of my votes by stating that they are pressure votes, when I've already explained why I do it anyway.

I use it more as a "Hey actually read what I post about you, skimming a**hole" because even if it's a pressure vote, it's a vote and it stands out pretty dang clearly from everything else you've put. It can also serve to emphasize the most important thought you have when you're posting wally stuff.

That being said, yes, it's less effective if you clear it as a pressure vote. I'm still going to use it.
And if you scumread me for it, screw you, I've explained myself already.

FM is forum mafia. You don't sound like a newbie.

[Zyf]

Actually I just realized the whole reason I signed up was to see what happens if you claim mafia goon as your opening post. Unfortunately, it counts as against wincon regardless of alignment XD

If I see anymore posting from you, that technically makes you a liar.

By the way, what does this mean? I'm not following your logic.

[Zyf]

Cheet, why did you try to start a mw wagon?

[Zyf]

Actually I just realized the whole reason I signed up was to see what happens if you claim mafia goon as your opening post. Unfortunately, it counts as against wincon regardless of alignment XD

If I see anymore posting from you, that technically makes you a liar.

By the way, what does this mean? I'm not following your logic.

If you only posted to say you are scum, and then proceeded to play after not saying so, then there must be another reason you are posting.

...

Evidently, I determined that it was worth it to play mafia anyway because it's good psychology practice
also new people to meet.
We're digressing now.

[Zyf]

I'm not trying to be condescending. I couldn't read between the lines of your question.

No frowns, only smiles

Okay >.>
Tone is hard to read over the webs so I will give you the bee oh tee dee.

However, you are very concerned with people scum reading the way you voted. That is not townie.

This kind of point is nice on paper and maybe not so much of a real thing in reality.
In my experience town is equally likely to be self-conscious about most of these sorts of things.

I would also like to point out that a townie (me) could be equally worried that people will scumread them and mislynch them which is a town loss.
I also don't want misunderstandings for /why/ I'm doing it.

The whole purpose of the days is, aside from lynching, seeing people's reaction to getting scumread. If you get scumread and decide not to care, regardless of alignment, people are going to get a lot more suspicious than if you present sound reasoning for your actions.

On a separate note, you do sound kinda condescending. If you aren't trying to be, your tone is off imo.

[Zyf]

Hello guys! I'm the replacement for froogoss. I guess the mod will tell you soon. I will able to comment on the game soon.

Hullo!

[Zyf]

Okay how do I unvote on this site hm meh oh well for now I already said I've played mafia before and I don't think any points made against me to vote are valid now re reading this was more of a skim than anything else but let me tell you what I came in here to do at the start of the game: I planned on using normal filler just goofing off a bit and when someone voted me freak out for a reaction on that player I wanted to see how different people play or act on this site compared to others my answer is not so dif but right now if you want me to out reads just for outting reads I have a townread on Transcend and Zyf I liked Zyf's reaction when I screamed and I feel like most of his content has been pretty consistent I don't see a lot of posts I dislike now my Transcend townread is a lot harder to show you but the way he's acting is the normal "Okay i'm town buckle up lets do this" that I see from him if you got more questions or something you don't understand feel free to ask

If you could do
this
or something like that
it makes your content much easier to read.

[Zyf]

Do you think anyone is scum yet?

*ahem*

[Zyf]

im trying my hardest to understand that table

The person in the left hand column reads the person on the upper row as red, green, or yellow
yellow is null
green is town
red is scum

[Zyf]

also you still haven't explained why my second and third votes are bad...

[Zyf]

@Everyone-let me know when you want to see the chart again.

[Zyf]

ok, that makes sense

[Zyf]

I await cheet's dump to add another colored box to my sheet
preferably green since otherwise I'm going to have 3 red boxes

actually I can solve that now
Performer and sonia-what are your current reads?

[Zyf]

Are you threatening to scumread me? D:

I'm threatening to read you
*gasp*
Inconceivable!

PSA i'm salt rn

[Zyf]

XD
That is almost as good as tiny hippo

[Zyf]

Are you smiles?

[Zyf]

1st one is bad because you don't agree with my logic
2nd one is bad because...I voted someone inactive?
3rd one is bad because...I'm trying to pressure vote your friend?

Very interested in your justifications.
@Sonia-if everyone thought like you scum would just win due to no activity. I don't care about the validity of your reads, but I need to get a read on you.

Here are mine in order of confidence
Transcend is town because they're closing a lot of backtrack paths which normally afaik scum doesn't like doing
Performer is nullscum since they're doing the exact opposite of transcend and giving themselves a lot of safe space
Sonia (you) is nullscum because as soon as I vote you to try and get you to help me read you, you immediately become as spiny as f*** and deny me any opportunities to get you to talk.
UNVOTE: Are you willing to at least comment about something or talk to someone other than transcend now?
Cheet's tone just reads townie to me, but he's experienced so I'm not super sure on this one.
Mw is nulltown just due to vibes at this point though I don't particularly appreciate the tiptoeing.
Since sonia really fucking doesn't like me now, I'd be interested in at oeast seeing your reads, even if there's reasoning behind them other than tone/vibes. VOTE: mw
Lastly drixx null because they seem to just be doing IC things at this point (the speech, supporting the game/let's do this rally)
Others are null.

Fun fact: I vote people when I need stuff from them because otherwise people tend to ignore my shit
And it's really f***ing annoying

End-of-post reminder to transcend to explain why they think my other 2 votes are bad

Here smiles
a bit old tho

[Zyf]

You're supposed to talk, mate.

Vote Drixx

He's dealing with modding another match rn

[Zyf]

before we go through this again
it is my personal opinion that pressure votes are indeed useful

[Zyf]

Zyf I am saying I want to hear wolf explain a scum read.

When you think that a player is somewhat likely to be scum based on what they have said, and how they have acted.

Mw what are your reads on smiles and sonia?

[Zyf]

though I may have missed something.

[Zyf]

Zyf I am saying I want to hear wolf explain a scum read.

When you think that a player is somewhat likely to be scum based on what they have said, and how they have acted.

Mw what are your reads on smiles and sonia?

Smiles seem null, although his exact reason for voting Sonia is a little unclear. Same for Sonia, but she seems somewhat unclear in some wording. I don't think it tells much so far considering it is her first game.

*on site
remember she has experience elsewhere

[Zyf]

I don't understand how i'm getting scumread but that's okay I'm going to be forced to play a new style since it's READS OR BE LYNCHED is what I'm getting from this so sure goes nothing

Zyr=Town As I said before I don't really see any content I dislike from him and he's always here giving well thought out answers
Transcend=Town I am fairly sure if he was mafia he could get me lynched very easy here and use a bunch of fake meta on me he's classic town here
Map= Null leaning Town I don't know how to read this guy he has a lot of holes in what he says and I don't understand his reasoning but that's all because he's nooby and just wants to try I guess this is more of a POE gut read then anything
Drix=Null This guys a vet and I've seen him post like twice so I don't think anyone can read that
Cheet= Null I don't know why I had a scum read on cheet in the first place I think it was the way he was talking I just didn't like how filler it was with questioning every post
Gyr= Null leaning scum Entrance seemed forced trying to make a bad joke to come slide in I need more content from them but disliking the start
Performer= Scummy Has barely any posts but the posts he does make have 0 meaning or help to this game
Smiles= Scum The way this guy is playing is over aggro and he's not really doing much I just don't see him playing the game like this as town

I would pref to vote in the bottom 2 on my reads list I would say I'm 80% sure there's at least 1 scum in those 2
UNVOTE:

makes enough sense, lines up relatively well with my thoughts as well
since we agree how about we start a VOTE: performer wagon

[Zyf]

Gyrlander/transcend is null, correct?

[Zyf]

Response to pedit
well it's hard to categorize on the chart, you know.

I need to play more games with you cheet, these diagrams are the funniest things

[Zyf]

Smiles= Scum The way this guy is playing is over aggro and he's not really doing much I just don't see him playing the game like this as town

Aggression isn't scummy. It progresses the game.

similar to how pressure vote > FOS, assuming equal logic behind the arguments
in other words, agree
slight town points to smiles

slight

[Zyf]

Zyf I am saying I want to hear wolf explain a scum read.

When you think that a player is somewhat likely to be scum based on what they have said, and how they have acted.

I'm not seeing a relation between the post you quoted and the response you made.

lmao you asked for an explanation for one of the scumreads mw had
mw understood it as "what is the definition of scumread"
XDDDD

[Zyf]

Why are you still on the pressure vote thing?

I'm not
it's just the first reference that comes to my mind since we've been talking about it

[Zyf]

Smiles= Scum The way this guy is playing is over aggro and he's not really doing much I just don't see him playing the game like this as town

Aggression isn't scummy. It progresses the game.

Ha good sir you're right and wrong I agree that aggression can be used to get the ball moving but you're not doing that not even close the way you're playing it's a "I am right and you're wrong" tone not doing much

Yeah I didn't know multi quote was a thing until I saw it see those types of posts are why I scum read you purely useless like you're trying to build up such a fake scum read on someone it's see through

I don't think it's possible to prove my posts aren't doing anything by responding to them.

Between the way you post and the way I read, there are going to be a lot of communication breakdowns. I would be interested in what other posts of mine are useless in this nature.

Pretty sure one of you is scum. Easily both.
This is such a futile discussion, one scumreads the other through tone and the other one's response is to also scumread through tone
This isn't 3p lylo omgus isn't effective

[Zyf]

was just me being an idiot. i thought it was kinda weird, you had some what of a fos on map, then evaded it sorta to make another somewhat awkward rvs vote.

however, i liked the reasoning you gave.

as for the third vote, i personally think sonia is town (you can green her for me) so it was just seeing my townread getting voted by someone else.

but i'm ambivalent now, as i've removed my vote.

Ayy map wolf. You were saying you were irked by 75 earlier. Can you give some thoughts on this explanation for it?

Because he votes up Zyf explaining that he had "3 bad votes", when they were more or less rvs votes.

100+ for sure he was one of the first friends I made coming into this whole mafia game thing although I did have a somewhat hard time reading him at first

Are the deadlines shorter/is it a different format than a forum where you were originally playing?

You've quoted in precious posts

So.. were you implying she was lying here?

@Map Wolf

, can you talk a little bit more about your townread on Performer btw?
Like, can you quote specific posts that you thought were legit and elaborate on your feelings there a little more clearly?

222 as an example feels reasonable. I feel like he leans towards town because he hasn't been contradicting or heavily attacking anyone. That said, it is not like his posts have been trying to get into conflict.

The fact that he isn't contradicting and isn't committing very far in his reads are ironically precisely what make him scummy to me
It looks like a scum player trying to blend in too well while giving themselves ways to go back in case they are accused.

[Zyf]

In addition, I'm asking sonia to explain her scumread outside of the tonal issues.

I feel like there's no reason for you to be posting so little in each post when it's not even adding or saying much in the first place you asking me to go quote what I find filler should be very simple on what's filler and what's not now i'm sleepy for tonight but if you want me to go find some in the AM I will

You're using the same empty language you're accusing me of using. You're just using more words to do it.

I've found that accusing people of having "filler content" is rather futile
In fact, we ended up unanimously aiming our suspicions on one guy in my last game and part of the reason he was lynched was b/c his only "arguments" were lurking and filler content
Also as performer has indicated that is quite subjective whether information is useful or just filler.

In other words, weak argument.

[Zyf]

@Perf

, I imagine that if Drixx keeps up this inactivity, he's gonna get replaced. There's enough time left in the day that I'm willing to wait and see what happens there. I do think some of Drixx's early reactions so far have been a little meh, so you're not alone there [but I don't want to doubtcast him too much in case he's uninvested town so]

If you're going to read drixx based on an IC speech and a joke/rvs vote i'm going to be very disbelieving in the validity of said vote

[Zyf]

He's certainly online right now.
I don't know if you're lurking but
VOTE: drixx[/drixx]
Vote will remain until replacement or a post that isn't a naked prodge

[Zyf]

He's certainly online right now.
I don't know if you're lurking but
VOTE: drixx[/drixx]
Vote will remain until replacement or a post that isn't a naked prodge

Wow this is like the worst post I've ever seen.

1.) Profile lurking is a

really

bad idea, for a lot of reasons. You really shouldn't do it. The best reason is because it completely goes against the spirit of the game to try and use someone's profile indication of activity to discern anything about them in a game. I have left mine set up to show if I'm online so folks I'm running games for will know if I'm processing a day start or end of day or whatever when they click my profile, and thus won't feel obligated to let me know a lynch is reached or whatever. What you're doing is why

a very large number

of people on this site have their profile set to never show their last online time.

2.) Voting for someone who is prodded is like the worst possible thing to do. Consider why most people get prodded; especially in newbie games. Generally it's because they are disconnected from the game and behind many posts and therefore really can't post anything to contribute. Once someone gets prodded they have a short time to produce content or they get replaced. So generally a person in that position is already under the gun. Adding a vote to them doesn't help in any way. If you do that to new players, you're just going to end up making them site flake and never come back. Please don't use your vote to add

pressure

to newer players. I'm not new and I'm the IC, so it's sort of a little less bad in this one particular instance ... but it's a super bad thing to do as a habit so I said something.

Also it's storming here so if I suddenly disappear for a little while, please don't freak out. I live in the blue ridge mountains and the power infrastructure here is not well equipped to handle thunderstorms unfortunately. The power goes out basically daily during thunderstorm season.

1) you forget that i was in a game that you mod
so you know

2)well you see a brief little "got prodded, x is town, y is scum" isn't really helpful
and you're the ic
hence the importance of your input

back to this
VOTE: performer

[Zyf]

gdi I just can't vote properly today can I
VOTE: performer

[Zyf]

I think i may end up doing chart update 2x a day
one in morning
one at night

@Sonia-if you could post links to old games it could easily allay some of our suspicions

[Zyf]

I think the Drixx cheet interaction is same-side interaction
that being said I don't think it's scum because I'm pretty sure performer is scum right now.
ahem

Drixx- 2 things
1) RIP you glhf
2) any reads?

[Zyf]

please guys
I can't read your minds and I don't want to influence the game
so can you people like, specifically state when you read someone
ex:

relevant information right here followed by hand-drawn stick

I like this post a lot. Wharbargl town.

[Zyf]

I think i may end up doing chart update 2x a day
one in morning
one at night

@Sonia-if you could post links to old games it could easily allay some of our suspicions

Old games to what? and from a dif site? Is that allowed

unless it's like a virus or something probably
@Mod-?

[Zyf]

Whoops

@PLOTINUS/MOD-outside mafia links allowed?

[Zyf]

Gyrlander, any new reads?

[Zyf]

was just me being an idiot. i thought it was kinda weird, you had some what of a fos on map, then evaded it sorta to make another somewhat awkward rvs vote.

however, i liked the reasoning you gave.

as for the third vote, i personally think sonia is town (you can green her for me) so it was just seeing my townread getting voted by someone else.

but i'm ambivalent now, as i've removed my vote.

Ayy map wolf. You were saying you were irked by 75 earlier. Can you give some thoughts on this explanation for it?

Because he votes up Zyf explaining that he had "3 bad votes", when they were more or less rvs votes.

100+ for sure he was one of the first friends I made coming into this whole mafia game thing although I did have a somewhat hard time reading him at first

Are the deadlines shorter/is it a different format than a forum where you were originally playing?

You've quoted in precious posts

So.. were you implying she was lying here?

@Map Wolf

, can you talk a little bit more about your townread on Performer btw?
Like, can you quote specific posts that you thought were legit and elaborate on your feelings there a little more clearly?

222 as an example feels reasonable. I feel like he leans towards town because he hasn't been contradicting or heavily attacking anyone. That said, it is not like his posts have been trying to get into conflict.

@ first response
is that a scumread or nullread?
e.e

[Zyf]

Check your name's row

and make sure I didn't get anything wrong

[Zyf]

drixx, transcend, and gyrlander (whoops that's spelled wrong up top XD) have a severe lack of reads here
drixx remains unread
gyrlander needs to give some reads to get some reads
transcend, mw, and cheet fairly locked in as town, though drixx may disagree on cheet.
Performer #1 scum rn

[Zyf]

Interested in your thoughts on performer, specifically.

[Zyf]

Map Wolf
======
Zyf
======
Smiles
======
Gyrlander, Transcend
======
Sonia, Drixx, Performer

I want to see a lot more from Performer and Drixx.
Not entirely sure what I need from Sonia. Finding it really hard to parse a read on her from her posting.
The bottom of the list is closer to nullread than scumread.
Need meta to feel okay about moving Transcend around.
Need ISOdives to feel better about any of these.

Feeling a lot more tired tonight than I thought I would be so will try my best to get at least 1-2 ISOdives done but can't promise anything more than that [and definitely not meta tonight] q.q

xSoniaNevermindx

Out the gate I'm finding Sonia's tone to be kind of.. one of those.. tones that you want to instinctively scumread.
And I kind of suspect that that's more of a general personality quirk with her than it being particularly indicative? Maybe?
[things like this make me distressed for lack of meta q.q]

I am very very curious if any of these votes/Townreads are legit so early in the game I doubt any are but if you do have one I would love to know why as we've only just begun posting and there's no such thing as tone in this game

If you're curious about them, why didn't you single any of them out specifically?

I'm picking up some hedging here and there.
And hedging is something that I know I've seen from some scum, but my bitter cold mafia-worn heart kind of feels like it's not really indicative of anything.
Sonia could easily be town or scum scared to take stances she can't back up in her first game here. [And 62 seems to reflect that so not really taking much from it yet]

The only reason I'm not voting you right now is because you're new to this (I think?) Voting people who don't talk will give almost no reads regarding the flip if we get mafia that's a lucky shot if we get town were ***d it's much better to vote in active players (you could also be voting a pr who can't claim)

This is more advice than anything about my read! Most of the time when people vote during the earlygame on this site, it's less to try and immediately get someone lynched that they think is scummy and more often to apply pressure to get that person to react.
Decrying someone for pressure voting earlygame because of the reasons you're pushing here doesn't really make sense in application with how the games here work!
[And I fully acknowledge that this may just be you, as scum, trying to set up fake reasons for a scumread on Wolfguy, but still , might as well make more convincing fake reasons if you are scum here!]
If that doesn't make sense let me know.

Can he be? Sometimes he can be but it's not like him

How many games would you guestimate you've seen him play/played with Transcend?

my Transcend townread is a lot harder to show you but the way he's acting is the normal "Okay i'm town buckle up lets do this" that I see from him if you got more questions or something you don't understand feel free to ask

Can you point at specific posts that you're feeling this from?

I just didn't like how filler it was with questioning every post

Just wait until I get a good read.

Then you'll wish that I would go back to the nonsense and filler!
[Also thanks for the readslist, do appreciate it even if it was hard to do this early on!]

Gyr= Null leaning scum Entrance seemed forced trying to make a bad joke to come slide in I need more content from them but disliking the start
Performer= Scummy Has barely any posts but the posts he does make have 0 meaning or help to this game
Smiles= Scum The way this guy is playing is over aggro and he's not really doing much I just don't see him playing the game like this as town

I would pref to vote in the bottom 2 on my reads list I would say I'm 80% sure there's at least 1 scum in those 2

Might be getting townvibes from this?
Not sure.

I'm kind of getting the vibe that you think antitown play is scummy, is that fair?

Spoiler: Also I'm the worst and was procrastinating

P-edit: I suppose! I've been finding lately that my reads are better described in terms of relativity to other reads rather than some sort of absolutism?
:s

There are hidden gems, gyrlander
Just let him go at his pace because that seems to have gone pretty well from the above
That's the most thorough read we've had so far.

[Zyf]

Interested in your thoughts on performer, specifically.

Meh, he seems contributing to the game. Although this doesnt mean he's town, I'm not saying he's scum and will put him town-aligned. Why are you voting him, anyway¿

He's contributing in a way that makes him blend in, while givig himself escape routes
Here let me pull some stuff up

[Zyf]

I was going to ask Zyf too about his vote but I guess it was still RVS on pg 2 .

Oh right cheet who's your townread
witholding (or is it withholding, I don't even know any more because fuck autocorrect i turned it off) information is generally bad for town.

PEdit-Because you guys are already talking?
I did this last game too. Vote the experienced people who aren't talking yet.

So that's why you seem so familiar! I think I saw you on a newbie game that just finished.

"I was going to ask"
But he didn't. Off to say it preemptively.

@Cheet well , regarding Map Wolf:
on one hand, we could add pressure , which makes some sense
on the other hand, he said he'll tell us thoughts later

I feel like the second option is what I'll go for right now, to see what comes up from him. I feel uneasy wagoning him this early with so little to go off of .

*I would vote but I'm not*
Same thing. Preemptive defense.

VOTE: Vote Transcend

Hello Hello everyone it's nice to meet you all and I am so ready for my first game on mafia scum now this isn't my first game on a forum mind you but it's gonna take me a bit to understand all of the lingo so whoops on that but I hope we can all have a great game
(Vote Transcend with me)

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... reviations
Ta-da.

Why Thank you very much this will come in hand and to Trans please it's not omgus I have a scumread on you that I can write 50 pages on if I wanted I can't wait to see how people scumhunt on here compared to others this has me giddy

i had a scumread on you before you entered this game.

nahdia was scum her first newbie game here.

impoetic was scum her first newbie game here.

i was town my first newbie game here, but i'm a male figure. the aforementioned figures are female just like yourself.

ur fukt bro.

gg.

I feel like this is confbias...? are you saying that every female's first game means they are scum? ...

...? + ...
This way it's much easier to say "But I wasn't really sure" later

Suspect imo

[Zyf]

"I feel like the second option is what I'll go for right now, to see what comes up from him. I feel uneasy wagoning him this early with so little to go off of ."

I actually hate this. You have the power of the vote, you should use it. If you don't think he's scum, you just unvote. This tells me he was scared of voting players because voting town as scum is quite *ew*

Vote Fyx

That wash't me
That was a quote, written by performer
Wth man

[Zyf]

I hate players who say "Idk can be scum or maf" or anything along those lines because if you vote it allows you to take it back and be like "Well I never said he was town!" or if it flips maf you can be like "Yeah thought so."

Performer wagon!

@Performer-could use some reads
Like well thought out committed reads.

[Zyf]

I've found that accusing people of having "filler content" is rather futile
In fact, we ended up unanimously aiming our suspicions on one guy in my last game and part of the reason he was lynched was b/c his only "arguments" were lurking and filler content
Also as performer has indicated that is quite subjective whether information is useful or just filler.

In other words, weak argument.

Your anecdote is a weak counter. It also ignores the hypocrisy of her accusation.

Ok then cut out the anecdote
The point still stands. Whether or not something is filler is relative.

Watching you guys interact gives me information as to your relationship (which i believe is opposite side interaction). Therefore the content is not filler

[Zyf]

Zyf - Please refrain from discussing ongoing games. It's not allowed. See the rules post for a link to the explanation. It's also generally not okay to link to any ongoing games on another site, but usually it's fine to link to completed games off site if there's some reason to do so.

As for reads and me: I don't just toss out reads lists. It's a thing I've really never done and I've only recently started doing it occasionally. It's unlikely to ever happen on a day one because that's completely incompatible with my approach to mafia, so umm... yeah. What you get from me is my interactions, and questioning or probing I do, any back and forth I have with someone, any gambits I run and whatever I say about those things. Generally I'll see things that make me think of questions and then I'll decide how to probe for a read and do so and when I'm satisfied or obviously have gotten as much out of someone as I'll get, I usually say what I think.

Long story short: you'll know my reads when you get my wall of quotes catch up post. I don't do the catching up thing where I post comments about stuff in the past constantly while the game is going on. I find that to be ridiculously showy and LAMIST and also really annoying. You get my catch up all at once; the catch is you gotta wait for me to catch up.

Also - Me suggesting to you that profile scumming is against the spirit of the game and suggesting that you not use a vote to pressure new players who are prodded should not invalidate what I said at the start of the game. First and foremost: let's have fun. Everything else is negotiable. If it stops being fun, then why would we do it?

mkay

So I suppose a better question is, do you have any comments or questions?
Speaking of the rainstorm you have around you there was thunder so loud where I live about 5 minutes ago that I swear I was going to have a heart attack

[Zyf]

wait drixx so then sonia can post their past games from a separate site?

[Zyf]

iunno cheet
iunno
that interaction between sonia and smiles felt like SvT
and to me smiles is relatively townier

[Zyf]

i) I feel like CheetVGyr was TvS BUT YOU DON'T HEAR ME FLIPPING OUT ABOUT IT.
ii) Sonia's sad fit kind of felt a little town to me?
Plus Transcend is saying she's town so I might trust that for now.

i struggle to believe that sometimes
even though logically it's probably protown because a scum would lack the need to flail with 2/5 votes.

[Zyf]

G

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I

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>late evening my time
"Good morning"
Do you live in japan of something?

[Zyf]

@Plot, gonna be VLA until Sunday, sister is getting married and she's recruited me to do her bidding.

Tell her congratulations for me!

[Zyf]

I can believe gyr is scum by POE.
So are we doing a performer wagon or a gyrlander wagon?

[Zyf]

Hello and welcome to the morning update of the Read Grid!!!1!!!exclamationpoint!one!!

Notes:
We still need reads from drixx and transcend

Performer and Gyrlander are 2 biggest scumreads right now, with Gyr extra low on the list without reception of any townreads.

[Zyf]

I've found that accusing people of having "filler content" is rather futile
In fact, we ended up unanimously aiming our suspicions on one guy in my last game and part of the reason he was lynched was b/c his only "arguments" were lurking and filler content
Also as performer has indicated that is quite subjective whether information is useful or just filler.

In other words, weak argument.

Your anecdote is a weak counter. It also ignores the hypocrisy of her accusation.

Ok then cut out the anecdote
The point still stands. Whether or not something is filler is relative.

Watching you guys interact gives me information as to your relationship (which i believe is opposite side interaction). Therefore the content is not filler

Are you not concerned that she is scum reading me for things she is doing?

I feel like you're /really/ trying to get me to scumread her, which I've pretty much denied.
I could move my scumread to you instead of gyr, because you're starting to tunnel a bit too much for my liking

Rereading her stuff, Sonia sounds more like frustrated townie than you do.
Honestly you both sound like frustrated townie at this point, but you're doing aggro frustration while sonia's frustration is more defensive.

See what I'm saying?

[Zyf]

Hello and welcome to the morning update of the Read Grid!!!1!!!exclamationpoint!one!!

Notes:
We still need reads from drixx and transcend

Performer and Gyrlander are 2 biggest scumreads right now, with Gyr extra low on the list without reception of any townreads.

oh by the way smiles you have 3 scumreads right now.

[Zyf]

Butt w9
Cheetory6 gas "cheetor" in his name
He must be a "6" year old with bad spelling
Therefore it should say "Cheater"

Cheet is a cheater confirmed
EVRY1 WAGON

Zyf was bricked to death for bad puns.
But it wasn't enough so he was found burned for unnecessary content

[Zyf]

Perf-do you have any reads to state now
Believe it or not I actually have other things to do so I can't be bothered to constantly reread your (pl) posts and update the chart.
And I highly doubt everyone is null to you except cheet.

[Zyf]

Flubber=smiles
It's an alt guys

Perf @ L-2

Mw i think that gyr/perf is same side interaction.
Not sure which side tho. Probably scum imo.

[Zyf]

VOTE: gyrlander

I like cheetory's case on them.

If I get lynched don't forget this shitty vote

No, that's a valid vote.

[Zyf]

Map, like I said in my ISO, I touched on reads.

Upon looking back , I saw they weren't obvious .
Cheet/Zyf - tr
Map - town lean
Drixx - scum lean
Gyr - scumread

the rest are being sorted as the game goes on - in other words, null
Trans appearing and disappearing, Sonia with the victim play and hard-to-understand thoughts, and Smile who hasn't jumped out at me - I'll post a later wall with elaboration like I said earlier . When I post it, you 'll see it . I feel like I'm being picked on when I already said I'll post later about my reads, yet you're asking me for them when they're being developed. I feel like you're ignoring specific posts because I already said I'll put up a small wall later. I don't see you asking anyone else like Smiles or Drixx for reads.

If it's not clear , I 'm saying Gyr was contradictory with what he said. It's like me saying I'll vote someone, he's town but maybe not, but he's town. And all of a sudden jumping on something Zyf reads too much into , and voting the person . Looks to me like he wants an easy wagon .

Fair enough.
Seems to line up decently with what I believe in.

VOTE: gyrlander NEEXT!!

[Zyf]

Zyf , I understand you're still new but when you put someone at L-1, you need to say that.

Wait, that's L-1?
Oops

L-1

@sonia-yeah, i suppose you're right
So naturally the optimal choice is to force them both to talk, to determine which seems scummier. Right?

[Zyf]

Wait that's

L-2

because cheet unvoted

[Zyf]

At this point think gyr is weirder due to a lack of content
I can sort of believe what cheet and perf are saying, so I'm going to keep my vote where it is, thank you very much. I need something out of gyr first.

Also I disagree on cheet being weak with his pushes.
He hasn't really looked like he's trying to get someone lynched through those pushes.

[Zyf]

Map, like I said in my ISO, I touched on reads.

Upon looking back , I saw they weren't obvious .
Cheet/Zyf - tr
Map - town lean
Drixx - scum lean
Gyr - scumread

the rest are being sorted as the game goes on - in other words, null
Trans appearing and disappearing, Sonia with the victim play and hard-to-understand thoughts, and Smile who hasn't jumped out at me - I'll post a later wall with elaboration like I said earlier . When I post it, you 'll see it . I feel like I'm being picked on when I already said I'll post later about my reads, yet you're asking me for them when they're being developed. I feel like you're ignoring specific posts because I already said I'll put up a small wall later. I don't see you asking anyone else like Smiles or Drixx for reads.

If it's not clear , I 'm saying Gyr was contradictory with what he said. It's like me saying I'll vote someone, he's town but maybe not, but he's town. And all of a sudden jumping on something Zyf reads too much into , and voting the person . Looks to me like he wants an easy wagon .

The thing is transformer, I agree with this.
Gyr's been just as shifty and wonky with their votes, but they haven't given me a read list or anything.
Like.

[Zyf]

Sonia, mw, and cheet
Especially cheet

You guys have the power of deciding who we lynch today
So vote.

[Zyf]

gross

how descriptive.

[Zyf]

Hey guys! Wanna ask me anything? Also, can I call people "fucking dumb" on this site? That would perfectly suit what just almost happened.

yes.
What are your reads on cheet and transcend?

[Zyf]

I'm watching a Kdrama episode, feel free to engage me , whoever is online hehe.

Drixx's motto of having fun while playing FM, made me really think over my playstyle (when I'm not mimicking others). I tend to default to serious and at times, I can get so invested that I will get very arrogant and even merciless. I don't think I'm anti social in the least but I think I will try to improve on having fun no matter what alignment I am, in my ongoing games and going forward. I'm 100% sure top management doesnt provide lessons on having fun , but they probably should , for ICs.

It's going to be my 1 year anniversary in a couple months since I began onsite, and I plan to become an IC. I think I will institute a thread with notes on How to Have Fun in Mafia. Just general tips.

how is this remotely relevant dude
FoS performer, will vote/hammer depending upon gyrlander's responses

[Zyf]

Chart-Morning update

Notes:
MW and Transcend unanimously town, mw with people
Smiles still has 3 scumreads, wth
Perf is down as a townread for MW who is unanimously town, but that's the only townread on perf
Gyr is down as a townread for transcend who is unanimously town, but that's the only townread on gyr

Well.
Wonderful.

i love this chart it's beautiful

[Zyf]

What happened to your confidence on my reaction to your vote on me? Seems like an odd thing to say to someone you think is scum.

Yeah, I back off.

Why exactly did you back off again?

VOTE: gyrlander

I like cheetory's case on them.

If I get lynched don't forget this shitty vote

Because there's no reasoning?
I mean, most wagons happen because of one person's thoughts initially.

Hey guys! Wanna ask me anything? Also, can I call people "fucking dumb" on this site? That would perfectly suit what just almost happened.

Yes. Go ahead.
But what exactly "almost happened"? You getting quicklynched?
At worst you probably would have been left at l-1 with intent to hammer. Scumteam's probably not new (unless it's you) so I don't think they would do that recklessly.

[Zyf]

oh guys
can we wait to get some of drixx's overall thoughts on the thread before we hammer
because apparently IC has the tendency to get fearkilled N1 so I'd like something more than "you're all null"

[Zyf]

hey zyf how does it feel that both of your top foses are being lynched right now?

What do you mean?
I'm trying to decide which to kill
So if you could like l-1 gyr so that I can get some info, or at the very least wait for me
Also don't want to lynch before drixx gets some reads so

[Zyf]

no like, do you think that it's a mafia vs. mafia cross in perf/gyr

or do you scumread both but think you screwed up on one of your reads and are trying to properly assess which one you botched

Oh
It's a frikin wifom so I'm just going to assume there's no way in hell I'm good enough to solve the game

[Zyf]

oh by the way smiles you have 3 scumreads right now.

I've been more wishy-washy on you than scum reading you. That being said, this early in the game, three scum reads isn't really a bad thing.

Fair enough.

[Zyf]

Scumread
Gyrlander i feel that they aren't really contributing much to the discussion, but this might be the fact that they are replacing in. Their reason for voting for Performer is unclear.
Performer his reasoning for voting for Gyrlander in 321 is pretty poor. He seemed to be avoiding conflict, until he voted for Gyr.

Both of your scum reads are on the most popular wagons right now. I don't remember much discussion of them before this post.

Uh
I scumread performer pretty much immediately

Gyr happened around then though.

[Zyf]

Zyf, but those are map Wolf's Reads??

What's your point
What I'm saying is mw is /not/ the first to scumread perf

[Zyf]

Hey guys! Wanna ask me anything? Also, can I call people "fucking dumb" on this site? That would perfectly suit what just almost happened.

There is plenty of content for you to be proactive about.

Hence my scumread, smiles.

[Zyf]

she/he idk is a tonal townread

so she's probably town

since i'm hardly wrong

i mean i can be sometimes

Hey transcend
Can you link me to 2 scum games and 2 town games of yours?
I'm going out now but just want to have that.

Pedit-feel better, drixx

[Zyf]

Cheet is pretty much null, Performer I guess null-scum and Smiles scum. Gut read.

Vote Smiles

Why is smiles scum again?
UNVOTE:
So that transcend can't bs hammer you/control you

That's really rude trans

[Zyf]

I guess a better question is why is smiles scummier than performer?

[Zyf]

it's not optimal to split the vote.

It's also not optimal for town if a mafia is controlling/moving the pieces in the game
I'm getting uncomfortable with how pushy you're being
Please link me some games to allay my suspicions

[Zyf]

she/he idk is a tonal townread

so she's probably town

since i'm hardly wrong

i mean i can be sometimes

You're not this time

So, we kill Performer and then we kill Smiles, k?

Def same side interaction
Thus trans one of my scumreads is wrong
I just don't know which one

[Zyf]

Cheet is pretty much null, Performer I guess null-scum and Smiles scum. Gut read.

Vote Smiles

Why is smiles scum again?
UNVOTE:
So that transcend can't bs hammer you/control you

That's really rude trans

Gut read which I'm extremely confident on,

Yeah ok no
VOTE: gyrlander

[Zyf]

Please
Wait
For
Drixx

Intent to hammer when drixx gets back

[Zyf]

Cheet is pretty much null, Performer I guess null-scum and Smiles scum. Gut read.

Vote Smiles

Waaait waitwaitwaitwait
You "guess" perf is "nullscum" yet you're voting them over a "confident gut read"?
You're doing the same thing I scumread performer for. Inconsistency/wishywashy play. No
Never mind, I'm not hammering performer.

[Zyf]

Yes you frikin do
Because
1) I'm not sure I trust you anymore
2) ur impatient as frik
3) i want drixx's notes
4) gyr looks scummier to me
5) your read on gyr is tonal
6) i can agree with what performer is saying but I completely disagree with the reasons behind gyr's reads (or lack thereof)

Stop trying to control the game. I'm not going to do what you say just because you tell me to.

[Zyf]

every game is my game.

Also i'd like to see those old games as maf/town

[Zyf]

@Zyr i have Performer as scum read. Refer to 329.

Oh
Ok thx

[Zyf]

Wait why was smiles force replaced?

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[Zyf]

map just hammer, i give you permission

ok no
VOTE: transcend

There is absolutely no reason I should trust you if you are trying to force a hammer when you don't even explain very well what makes you think they're scum.
Nah dude.

[Zyf]

morning update


i'm the only one scumreading trans
mw actually scumreads perf, whoops.

[Zyf]

i don't actually give a fuck that you sr me now lol

because performer is still gonna get lynched

do it now, don't overthink it.

Seriously?
Does no one find this weird, overconfident, and coercive?
Seriously?

ugh

[Zyf]

i just want information and i can't tell you how many times the lynch goes on my fos and then it goes away due to people overthinking.

i like getting my way.

again
if you would POST OLD GAMES
i might hammer

[Zyf]

is there one where you're mafia?

[Zyf]

oh and i subbed into that game and my partner got lynched d1 so i was by myself. it was basically being a serial killer lmfao.

ok
so i've gone through a few of your games
and I have not seen you be this aggro on someone at l-1
i don't like that

[Zyf]

Update on my thoughts.

Townread

Cheetory

I feel we share thoughts about the game for the most part. I think his pushes are mostly scumhunting.

Zyf

They been posting a lot more than a scum would usually do.

Sonia

I feel she is just a town with a bit unsual tone.

Nullread

Drixx

There really isn't much to come for in his posts.

Transcend

I kinda feel like he is a town who wants the game to move foward. 397 sounds a bit suspicious.

Gyrlander

Their reason for voting for Performer is (still) unclear. But i share his reads of Smiles and Performer.

Scumread

Smiles

I feel like he is trying to take advantage of Sonia in 206 and 224. If he is scum, then it would make sense for him to be pushing against Gyr, and be allied with Performer.

Performer

Where are his reads? It worries me that he is simply not into conflicts. 334 is unclear. 340 sounds like a scum trying to help his teammate. Notice how he never confronts Smiles directly.

Uncertain

I feel that (and at least one of) GyrlanderVSPerformer and SmilesVSSonia is TownVsScum.

totally agree with your tvs thing

What about gyr/trans though?

[Zyf]

part of my play involves using intimidation to get what i want

i was never gonna actually let gyrlander get lynched.

The thing is I /don't/ see that level of play anywhere else in your games as of right now

PEdit-"mildly aggressive" is not the same thing as trying to convince 2 people to hammer someone and forcing someone to vote your vote by threatening them through L-1


PEdit-For countdown just go into some other random match that's over and copy the mod's syntax lol

[Zyf]

As of right now. I will hammer today (How do you make a countdown?) 19:00CEST (3 hours).

NO please wait
PLEASE
drixx has posted literally jack s*** and he's the IC

[Zyf]

damn this plotinus guys is a god at getting pagetop

[Zyf]

@Plotinus-How long is twilight?

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[Zyf]

jesus christ transcend
you sound like a 5 year old waiting to get their toy at the cash register

[Zyf]

look at it this way
gyr is not unvoting
you are definitely not unvoting in 15 years
drixx isn't here to unvote
when drixx gets back I'll immediately be willing to hammer
wolf is ready to hammer

that's 5 people

if drixx gets back and for some reason things performer isn't scum, then I won't vote because I don't think he's scum anymore. Unlikely? No doubt. Possible? Yes. Beneficial to town? Totally.

you're back in town lean for me btw
which puts perf back into my scumslot

However, I completely disagree with cheet being scumbuddy.

[Zyf]

like.......... you fosed him at one point

and map wolf foses him.

literally no one thinks he's town.

if he's town, we have shit to work with.

if he's mafia then we have 2 mislynches still.

I'm not saying he's not scum
especially not now that I get you're just impatient and paranoid as frik

i'm just saying that working without the IC's thoughts is very annoying, and we struggled in my last match because we had 2x experienced scumteam. So if, say, you're performer's scum buddy, I'm going to do a lot better with something from drixx than only you sitting next to me whispering (or commanding) in my ear.

PEdit @Wolf-hmm. Possibly could be gyr/perf scumteam.
I just find it hard to believe we're that good, heh.
Plus that interaction doesn't look double scummy to me
Don't worry wolf. As soon as drixx gets some points on the table perf will be dead
within a few hours
unless it's 2am over here XD

[Zyf]

Spoiler: offtopic @Trans

then -shnip-
off topic: how do you do the multiple color thing lmfao

you click the font colour box next to the dropdown that controls font size?

it's not that complicated you know

[Zyf]

@Plotinus-How long is twilight?

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holy mother of fuck
what is this bbcode
do you do this shit manually plotinus?

[Zyf]

oh thank god plotinus
for a second i thought you did that one by one

[Zyf]

ahahaahahahahaha
13.65 posts per day
i clearly don't have enough to do

ok now relevant

If you do that to new players, you're just going to end up making them site flake and never come back. Please don't use your vote to add pressure to newer players. I'm not new and I'm the IC, so it's sort of a little less bad in this one particular instance ... but it's a super bad thing to do as a habit so I said something.

I really dislike this . I never have seen a post like this. Let me get this straight - you threw suspicion onto Cheet and I for pushing an imaginary wagon on you, you said there are zero content posts from 8 players, and now you said we should not pressure new players. This makes sense from your view since you're pressuring Cheet and I as we're SEs but at the same time, see below.

What do you suggest then? We focus only on SEs? That sounds unfair and seems mighty scummy to me.
Or was this post a general FM theory ? Or was it just opinion?

I think drixx was more concerned with a newbie checking the thread and then flaking because they're at l1 for what seems to be no reason.

this is smiles' only interaction with performer
i doubt that they're scum team with no mutual reads NOR any distancing

[Zyf]

meh

sage

well who else could it be?
Aside from you, anyway

Spoiler: most irrelevant thing ever

thank you nahdia for the new sarcastic comment

[Zyf]

ahahaahahahahaha
13.65 posts per day
i clearly don't have enough to do

ok now relevant

If you do that to new players, you're just going to end up making them site flake and never come back. Please don't use your vote to add pressure to newer players. I'm not new and I'm the IC, so it's sort of a little less bad in this one particular instance ... but it's a super bad thing to do as a habit so I said something.

I really dislike this . I never have seen a post like this. Let me get this straight - you threw suspicion onto Cheet and I for pushing an imaginary wagon on you, you said there are zero content posts from 8 players, and now you said we should not pressure new players. This makes sense from your view since you're pressuring Cheet and I as we're SEs but at the same time, see below.

What do you suggest then? We focus only on SEs? That sounds unfair and seems mighty scummy to me.
Or was this post a general FM theory ? Or was it just opinion?

I think drixx was more concerned with a newbie checking the thread and then flaking because they're at l1 for what seems to be no reason.

this is smiles' only interaction with performer
i doubt that they're scum team with no mutual reads NOR any distancing

Not so sure if it confirms anything. They could be trying to stay neutral with each other to prevent any scum team reads. If they are TownVsScum, then i would like Smiles take on Performer.

except smiles is getting replaced
smh

wait plotinus who's replacing?
it's not in the nub q thread rn

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[Zyf]

Idk why my phone corrected everypony to everypomy but I can dig it.

ohshitwaddup
let's fucking go

Sitechat pals are on an adventure

[Zyf]

oh i can L-1 gyr now
lit
VOTE: gyr

Also yeah plot is a fuckin GOD at pagetop jfc

[Zyf]

ok.
never mind.

Gyrlander is at L-2.

[Zyf]

nahdia looks pretty dang townie if i do say so myself

@Cheet Vote?

[Zyf]

Transcend can you maybe give some examples of what led you to that read? Honestly we pretty much disagree across the board but let's just start with this.

+1

maybe now that there's two of us you're interested in activating your inner trump and building a wall

[Zyf]

Yeah, if Transcend tells more people to end the day early just ignore him please @everyone.

3 of the people want to keep the day going
1 person's trying to get a lolhammer
3>1
don't end it early guys
please

at least for drixx

PEdit-Rip transcend's inner trump 2016-2016
I'm assuming this implies you can't recognize your previous logic, so you can't really give a wall, yeah?
Fair enough

PEdit-LOOOOOOL nahdia you're going nuts on font size

[Zyf]

i don't like how map wolf keeps echoing me later on.

@trans-if i'm ever in a game with you again i WILL push you for it

[Zyf]

i hope you feel better

but damn that post was scummy as fuck.

still
again
wait for drixx
and now also wait for gyr to have a chance to defend themselves because lolhammering is a dick move and NO FUN

[Zyf]

mw is pretty townie to me
i just agree with trans that he's off
he is echoing me a lot but I'm not sure that's intentional or anything like that. it may just be he naturally feels like it applies even tho it's someone else's thought original

That being said i think the proper way of aligning those for is...
Perf/Gyr-osi
Nahds/Trans-ssi
Gyr/Trans-osi because trans' read is too dynamic to be same side

[Zyf]

osi is other side interaction?

why do you think me/nahd are ssi

i don't really understand those reads

gut sense
that one's much more likely to change
you guys just seem to fit decently together, but not perfectly

[Zyf]

fair nuff

maybe it's just cause we know each other.

no i'm taking that into account

[Zyf]

Yeah I'm not a fan of side interaction reads.

Posting thoughts never hurt town, did it

[Zyf]

the more there is to refer to, the better, no?

Also drixx is alive but let's give him some time

[Zyf]

@cheet
any updates? Transcend read change?

[Zyf]

i disagree
Nat=>na=>nad
i mean it's not that complicated
that's very different than if sonia called transcend nat, then I'd have no clue

Sonia, which is scummier to you?

[Zyf]

i disagree
Nat=>na=>nad
i mean it's not that complicated
that's very different than if sonia called transcend nat, then I'd have no clue

Sonia, which is scummier to you?

Who are referring to

gyr V perf

[Zyf]

the nahdia update

Notes: nahdia
i mean

[Zyf]

D1 To-Do List [hold me accountable for these please otherwise I might get apathetic because this game has gotten a little less fun for me [other than Nahdia joining but still]]:
-Gyr case
-Transc metadive
-Performer ISOdive
-poking Drixx in the face until he starts playing pokepokepoke

stop
drixx is sitewide v/la for spinal injury
that's r00d m8

prefer gyr and perf, trans is more of a d2 thing.

[Zyf]

i disagree
Nat=>na=>nad
i mean it's not that complicated
that's very different than if sonia called transcend nat, then I'd have no clue

Sonia, which is scummier to you?

Who are referring to

gyr V perf

I'd most likely say perf due to interaction reasons

examples?

[Zyf]

nahdia looks pretty dang townie if i do say so myself

@Cheet Vote?

Can we get a little more out of your thought process on why ? Feels like you 're giving out a free pass.

She came in with fresh ideas, scum tends to kinda copy stuff
Also she's interested (even forceful) in trying to extend daytime, rare for scum.

[Zyf]

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@Zyr i have Performer as scum read. Refer to 329.

See, I was looking to give Map a pass today since I was just uncomfortable wagoning him based on his 1st post. I'm starting to really wonder though.

1. You said you didn't like me voting Gyr, and you voted me. Ok.
2. Then I explained it, and you unvoted me. Ok.
3. Next, you said I'm scum again for the same reason you initially scumread me - yet I addressed that already and you unvoted me . Yet you're saying again, I'm scum. This is ridiculous. I think you're forgetting the discussion that already happened.

i had the chart inputted wrong, he was correcting me
it's also possible that he unvoted you because you seemed less scummy, doesn't mean he cleared you completely
it also could have been that he didn't want to get you lolhammered

[Zyf]

I really would like to say more but a side effect of my spinal injury has reared its head today so I need to:

@Mod: V/LA for 24-48 hours. Hopefully the low end, but just in case.

Sigh . He's so occupied with other things, that he does some partial catchup , vote parks me , then tells us he's occupied again. Come on man.

unvote

I didn't mean to leave my vote parked on you.
The issue I was having subsided and I got some really good sleep. I think I'm safe to say I'm back now, and I'll do my best to have a substantial post up ASAP. Hopefully tonight. My wife had an early shift and we have a rare evening where she's around, so I'll be multitasking. Thanks for bearing with me.

@mod: I am pretty confident I'm good now. Thanks very much.

Cooooll beaaaaans
Now hurry up

[Zyf]

Ok, this level of inactivity is pretty bad news for us.

So i have 2 prompts
1) who do you think is scummier?
2) do you think they are both scum?

For me it's right now gyr more (they haven't really defended themselves and their reads are pretty bad), and I am confident they are not both scum

[Zyf]

Pace slowing significantly with two competing wagons is usually an either/or thing:

1.) The scum are happy with the wagons and thus see no reason to really do anything, contributing to the slowdown.

2.) One (or if we're ludicrously lucky both) wagon is on scum, and they're hoping to ride it out and that town will get frustrated with the slowdown and move on.


It's actually a little freaky how often town will have a wagon going on a scum member and move on just out of frustration at the game pace slowing down.

I'm playing in more than one game, so I'm spreading myself around a bit. I'll be in with more to say soon.

Which is why your reads on who's scum/scummier are critical in preventing said impatience and slowdown
That being said having all your reads is helpful in reading you, so the more you post the better

Would like to point out to everyone else that it's possible drixx is scum posting this to get town points
I mean rn i don't think drixx is scum at all but keep that in mind

[Zyf]

Drixx which scenario do you think it is in terms of Performer/Gyrlander?

I don't understand the question o~o

[Zyf]

1.) The scum are happy with the wagons and thus see no reason to really do anything, contributing to the slowdown.

2.) One (or if we're ludicrously lucky both) wagon is on scum, and they're hoping to ride it out and that town will get frustrated with the slowdown and move on.

These two scenarios.

i mean by poe i'd like to think we have at least one

[Zyf]

hopefully we aren't shit lmfao

and hopefully we're gods and got both correct amirite

[Zyf]

having gyrlander and drixx not V/LA would also be ideal
but beggars can't be choosers i guess

Spoiler: relevant

https://mobile.twitter.com/nomarios/sta ... 7542585345 <replace "splatoon team" with "mafia game"

[Zyf]

performer why don't you give evidence as to why gyr is scum

[Zyf]

roight
that's old tho

@Transcend-What exactly is gyr's "tone" to you?

[Zyf]

roight
that's old tho

@Transcend-What exactly is gyr's "tone" to you?

Ohh so you're asking if it changed - if it has, I 'd bring up . I can say this though, if I wasn't clear earlier - I'd welcome a wagon on Sonia as well, but a vanity wagon is pointless. Didn't vote at all, I asked her some things and she never addressed them , suddenly shows up and votes me (opportunistic as hell),

addresses someone else though

. Just...wow.

Can you...link that?
(second paragraph)

[Zyf]

I do have DND tonight, as usual. I think it's probably more likely that scum are happy with the wagons than we've managed to wagon both scum; however, I'm paying pretty close attention to both of them as I slowly catch up and make notes. I slept in longer than intended today, so I am likely going to be up for quite awhile after DnD. I'll try and have my major catch up post up before I sleep. Thanks for bearing with my crazy real life guys.

What about your inital impression of one scum one town?

[Zyf]

I do have DND tonight, as usual. I think it's probably more likely that scum are happy with the wagons than we've managed to wagon both scum; however, I'm paying pretty close attention to both of them as I slowly catch up and make notes. I slept in longer than intended today, so I am likely going to be up for quite awhile after DnD. I'll try and have my major catch up post up before I sleep. Thanks for bearing with my crazy real life guys.

What about your inital impression of one scum one town?

I try my best to avoid confirmation bias. An initial impression is just that. That's why I'm paying attention specially to both people currently wagoned: the game has stalled with two at L-2 and that could be for a lot of reasons. I'm not going to just assume it's absolutely because scum are happy with them OR that one of them is scum trying to ride it out (or both). When I finish catching up and summarize my notes and thoughts on each slot, then we'll see where I am on both of them.

Your question comes across as trying to steer me to a particular stance or idea. Was that intentional?

Nahhh. I was just confused because you were more confident in there being 1 scum wagon than both of them being wagoned. Or were you just stating the two extremes for emphasis?
:3

[Zyf]

I do have DND tonight, as usual. I think it's probably more likely that scum are happy with the wagons than we've managed to wagon both scum; however, I'm paying pretty close attention to both of them as I slowly catch up and make notes. I slept in longer than intended today, so I am likely going to be up for quite awhile after DnD. I'll try and have my major catch up post up before I sleep. Thanks for bearing with my crazy real life guys.

What about your inital impression of one scum one town?

I try my best to avoid confirmation bias. An initial impression is just that. That's why I'm paying attention specially to both people currently wagoned: the game has stalled with two at L-2 and that could be for a lot of reasons. I'm not going to just assume it's absolutely because scum are happy with them OR that one of them is scum trying to ride it out (or both). When I finish catching up and summarize my notes and thoughts on each slot, then we'll see where I am on both of them.

Your question comes across as trying to steer me to a particular stance or idea. Was that intentional?

Nahhh. I was just confused because you were more confident in there being 1 scum wagon than both of them being wagoned. Or were you just stating the two extremes for emphasis?
:3

I suppose it doesn't matter whether it's one scum wagon or two, since you can only lynch one at a time anyway.

[Zyf]

Second half is pretty fluffy.

I understand it's your job as IC to provide game theory/strategies, but seriously. We need some reads pretty soon.

When exactly are you moving? Mid-July?

Pedit: at this point i don't need more explanations as to why you're taking so long. We just really need some input to prevent/stop the dead gamestate

[Zyf]

who's null on that list? trans?

[Zyf]

Chart Update-the Cheet version


Notes:
Transcend is a lot less conftowny than before
Cheet has more than 2 scumreads/leans
Sonia's now become unanimously above scum

[Zyf]

Drixx needs to give reads instead of stream of consciousness about the generalities of mafia games. His entire row being yellow 8 days into this game is kind of ridiculous q.q

^
Basically what i said last night.
We need reads, not theories.

[Zyf]

Ok, this is really bad for the gamestate. Cmon drixx and gyrlander.

[Zyf]

Hello guys :3

if you could post some game advancing content so we don't have someone who has been replaced twice that would be great, thanks.

[Zyf]

yayyyy sonia obvtowning the game up again..

like i said before, performer's filler isn't alignment indicative to me. just an observation i felt like pointing out.

i'm not so sure we have a town IC anymore tho.

we like just need some momentum on something. at this point i'd probably rope anyone besides map, sonia, zyf, transcend.

Why is cheet scum again?

[Zyf]

I don't get what the above means. It's trying to say two things...

There's two scum in the game. If I have enough townreads, then my nullreads are my best guess at who scum is, even if I don't feel particularly confident about it.

^
Which is why he has 3 red slots rn
should I change it to 1 scumslot?

[Zyf]

@Sonia
"I feel like I can get in her head but the fact she's replacing smiles one of my biggest sr's keeps her at null"
This part is just strnage . The fact that Transcend continues giving Sonia a free pass because she's somehow obvtown and they have a bit of meta together , is bugging me . Smiles is an sr , then she replaced into that slot, so then you put her at null. I don't get how you got from A to B here.

I can agree with Sonia though about Drixx at null . But I doubt he's scum or even lean scum , in the way he's been handling this game. I have firsthand experience with him in our scum game in a large normal. Yes , we lost that one - it was a terrible terrible scum game, largely due to 3/4 of the scum team not being great scum players. His scum meta (according to him) , is one where he's very active, highly, calculating, posts walls, can make gold out of nothing, and make garbage in the trash can, smell like roses. You get the picture.

1) Except that Nahdia's catch-up rang as significantly more townie than smiles' brief, game-advancing, but kinda off posts.

2) Sonia has nullread on Drixx? Last I checked she put scumlean.

[Zyf]

The "holy s*** there's actually someone other than me on the thread" update


Notes:
Nahdia,

transcend

(suddenly a lot more null?) are kind of question marks. Drixx is a jumbled mess of null, scum, and town reads.
We need more reads from gyrlander. *coughs*
Drixx is a normie with a life and responsibilities, how lame.
Performer and Gyr each have one townread from one of the question marks (nahdia and transcend, respectively), what a mess dude.

[Zyf]

hi nahdia

map can you rope performer already lol

hi. Read up. I asked you a question.

Also please don't end the day soon. I have a lot of things I want discussed before the day ends and we have plenty of time. I'm going to treat a pre-mature hammer add a scumclaim right now.

It's been a good chunk of time.
Please enlighten us on these expected discussions.

[Zyf]

OK guys, we /really/ need to reach a lynch here.

[Zyf]

I was kind of expecting Gyrlander to not disappear -_-'

@Plot-Is Gyr being replaced right now?

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[Zyf]

I don't know what the timer is but seriously I'm here and I've been getting also scummy feelings from Sonia so I'm not sure about Smiles and Performer anymore. We will see how things develop tomorrow and I will decide which is the best option to lynch (if you don't just lynch me right now)

.......
Why are "we" waiting until tomorrow?
Unless you can convince me that sonia is scum and perf isn't I will continue to have the intent to lynch you.
Maybe we are gods at this transcend. Maybe we got both of them.

PS no real updates to the chart.

[Zyf]

OK. Look.
1) Flailing isn't going to help your case. Neither is cursing.
2) You have yet to explain why exactly performer is super scummy. Also why is sonia scummy?
3) You have yet to defend yourself either except for with a claim, which is completely wasting our time. Performer has given us reads and information. You have not.

[Zyf]

Might be a slip that he's saying citizen?
Eh.

I think I'm more irked that he's here to claim and is unwilling to give reasoning as to why anyone is scum.
Feels more like stalling than anything to me.

If Drixx could do anything before this cycle is over, that'd be cool. Or replace out.
That's also an okay option.

^^^^^^^^^This

[Zyf]

I'm a fucking citizen and you better not vote me. You're not gods mislynching a townie. My preference right now is Performer. LYNCH HIM. I don't know why he is still alive.

You have a weird tendency to just wagon someone because you are under pressure. Personally i think it is more lack of experience, but it still sounds very scummy.
I think Performer has been playing pretty passive and almost wants the game to go slow, since most of his posts are replies, and not something that is exactly pushing the game foward. That isn't how you want to play the game as a town member. I still think Gyrlander is suspicious, but part of it can be explained due to his lack of experience.
I am going to VOTE: Performer in order to move the game a bit. He is my preffered lynch due to the reasons mentioned above.

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!

While I agree that Performer isn't the most aggressive player here *cough*hencethescumread*cough*
I do want to point out that he's actually given us some form of a reads list.
Gyrlander, on the other hand, has served some "gut reads", stated that they continue to be gut reads, and otherwise given us jack s***.
Followed by "I'm TOWN DON'T MISLYNCH ME OMG" flailing which continues to stall the game.

Just saying.

[Zyf]

Because I forgot gyr's gut reads.

[Zyf]

That's a really big column of red on Perforumer there ... even more so than Gyr. But we have massive ATE and the use of the word "Citizen" which is not used on this site to denote alignment.

I slept most of the last two days; sorry. Lots of stress right now I guess. Not much posts added so that's good.

Please. Hurry. Up.

[Zyf]

Zyf is really town Drixx.

There is really nothing off about him being antsy about you not being here.

If that's the extent of reads you're going to be able to give, I would seriously suggest replacing out.

We've been waiting for a while, drixx.

I'll go back and look though.

[Zyf]

That's a really big column of red on Perforumer there ... even more so than Gyr. But we have massive ATE and the use of the word "Citizen" which is not used on this site to denote alignment.

I slept most of the last two days; sorry. Lots of stress right now I guess. Not much posts added so that's good.

but this is...pretty much what we've already noted/stated. this is basically the whole war in the first place.

[Zyf]

Though that could also be him trying to get an experienced player into the game.
Man.
The concept of an IC really mucks up everything. :/

I do this.
Transcend actually got pissed at me and voted me for doing this, if I recall correctly.

transcend if you could just not hammer that would be great
you guys are convincing me that gyr's just...bleh, not actually scum so VOTE: performer

Where's nahdia, anyway? (times like these I wish we could tag people smh)

[Zyf]

oh right
Performer

BACK AT L-1

[Zyf]

Performer Jun 21, 07:39am Jul 01, 10:33am 0 days 20 hours 51

July 04 2016

fuck me.

oh my fukin
gdi
Of COURSE all 3 people under suspicion have chained V/LA's.
hahewpaohgeihawfj'ajHGWOh

[Zyf]

Lord in Heaven give me the strength to not quickhammer this man

i swear to god of if you do that

i will come find you

[Zyf]

Where's nahdia, anyway?

hi

Anything new to say, as a defender of Performer and a person strongly opposed to gyr as of your last post?

[Zyf]

Oh hello drixx.
1) what does "LAMIST" stand for again?
2) i'm not sure what you're implying?
Are you saying if there's no read, I set it as town? Because that's not what I'm trying to do...can you please point out where I've made that mistake? What I've intended to set up is a system where if someone says "nulltown" I'll put the read down as town.
You don't have to fully trust the chart, but it's useful for encompassing perspective, no? I mean it's useful to see who's being townread, who's being scumread, and who's a wild card in the town, right? If you don't like it, ignore it. It's not like I'm spamming the thread with it.