Newbie 1732 [Game Over!]: InnocentVille

[Drone]

Hello guys; Been reading 18 pages and tried not to post until I confirmed I can.

0x40;

Since the moment you joined the discussions you were on the extreme side of everything. A single word you dislike would, in your opinion, turn a person scummy.
Harsh isn't it?
Although I completely disagree with this attitude, I have to say it's just personality. Not playstyle, at least that's how I feel.
You refusing to claim even at L-1 is just plain stubborn, and can provoke suspicion. Do you have anything to hide..? Or you need to plan what claim you want to roll with?

Chrimi;

Aside the 0x40-Chrimi interactions, Chrimi hasn't been pointing out too many suspicions. One of the few she did, caught my attention.
Going back to the tne wagon, her activity.. or the inactivity to be exact, is the reason the wagon formed. Chrimi's rather sudden jump on the wagon seems a bit... inconsistent to me. If I was Chrimi in the 0x40-Chrimi case I would have kept the vote on 0x40 for his urging to attack and (attempts at) tripping Chrimi. Definitely would have taken 0x40's behaviour scummy and suspicious from Chrimi's view.

It seems that most of you guys somewhat prefer to rely on "meta-gaming". Sounds unhealthy to me.
Investigating personally by questioning and processing information is the true delight in mafia, at least in my opinion. Once the "meta reads" begin, I start losing directions. This is my very first game here and as a replacement after 18 pages, it's a bit confusing to completely understand everything that's happening, not to mention actually processing all that information..

This is the best I can do for now and I'm really sorry.. I did read but I can't keep up, I forgot a lot of details..

FoS: 0x40

So stubborn, are you being careless? Isn't a win is what you look for?
Claim, overthinking about your claim draws suspicions.

[Drone]

Then read the thread again and again until you have something more useful to say. It's 18 pages, not 180, so it's not like it's a lot of effort you have to put in. You should have at least something to say about every player.

Cut your rude and pestering attitude out.
And no. I won't.
Sorry to inform you, but I can't get into business all that quickly, you might have a memory of w/e you want.
Mine is limited.
Mine is to start working my way, and yours is to calm down.

Hello Drone.

Hi

0x40;

Since the moment you joined the discussions you were on the extreme side of everything. A single word you dislike would, in your opinion, turn a person scummy.

Claim, overthinking about your claim draws suspicions.

It kinda feels like you are trying communicate with your scum partner here, no?

If it gives such a vibe then I am afraid I failed at delivering the right one.

We are all super paranoid about that possibility because of this:

Intent to hammer.

Please claim your role, 0x40.

Not claiming. Hold off on your hammer until we hear from Rocnix's replacement.

...which feels like it is trying to coordinate a claim.

What I wanted to get from 0x40 with my post is just what he promised us, a claim after I post. Frankly, I didn't think he would have claimed even after I posted which makes things quite complicated, a scum would have claimed by now. But then again, it could be only his personality, being stubborn and stuff.

Intent to hammer.

Please claim your role, 0x40.

Not claiming. Hold off on your hammer until we hear from Rocnix's replacement.

I'm here and ready to hear your claim. A mislynch would be really distasteful on day 1, but you are the only lead right now.
You are the center of attention.

Tell me, is this intended?

[Drone]

In the end, the day ends up with what appears to be a policy lynch.
In day 2 we'll have a bit more information, and less distractions.
In my honest opinion, 0x40's lynch will save us distractions and blatant attacks based on personal disagreement.

As for Shannon's "advice", while I mostly agree with her it is most important to me to state that such thought should be kept to yourself and hope that the one you're trying to address would take what you said as common logic.

I myself took what you said as an attempt to role fish or even hint your own role a little. While I don't find this scummy much, it was rather wrong to come out like that.

[Drone]

Also, goodbye Jibs. Although I didn't get to talk with you much, it was a pleasure.

[Drone]

Thenewearth, you really think 0x40 is scum? Or he just plays really bad..?

[Drone]

Well, his behaviour seemed to hold the investigations down since he wouldn't let go and distract us all.
This feels like a policy. Him surviving the day would have surely made day 2 even harder. I know I Mostly noticed his provocative post when reading the 400 posts I read.
Speaking of which I might missed very important plays, I need to reread.
I know you thought at first he is scum, but now it's pretty obvious that's it's a vi, bad play, and his being convinced he knows it all better.

[Drone]

Your candidates were Chrimi, thenewearth, Astral Flare and 0x40, am I guessing right?

[Drone]

Welcome Cass! One thing I'd like to know is, considering you've read day 1, do you think there was a scum directing 0x40's lynch? If so whom it is, according to your intuition and judgments? Why?

As for mine and 0x40's case: I still call this a "policy" lynch. The way he was too obviously attacking everyone who didn't cooperate with him means he'd either be a terrible mafia trying to get a lynch asap, or a dull skilled towny who's trying really really hard/ showing off writing skills.

I too somewhat wanted to ask Jibs personally a few questions, but that won't happen.
So I'd sum up my thoughts of 0x40 wagon:
1) of all players, 0x40 was the distraction and could actually worsen day 2 if he was alive.
2) at some point, I believe a scum started directing the lynch (although not sure which).
When I say "directing" I mean, actively directing fire at him, as he already was the easiest and weakest candidate for a simple elimination.

[Drone]

Ebwodp, will continue this with more in depth details and maybe even name possibilities

[Drone]

Ok, first impressions (from my notes before knowing about the lack of NK - but after thinking about it, I don't see it changing things):

The scummiest: Rocnix/Drone. Both players gave me that impression, but what cinched it was Drone saying that 0x40 'feels like a policy lynch' (post 474), (Also sorry, I'll figure out how to properly link asap, this is my first game in seven years so I'm rusty...). And in his previous post, 444, he said:

A mislynch would be really distasteful on day 1, but you are the only lead right now.

This combined with my first impression and the fact that 0x40 was town makes that sound like a scum knowing that 0x40 will flip town. So, that's my best case so far.

VOTE: Drone

- Implosion next, because he has some votes on him now. He is a null read for me, so far. I just noticed he votes a lot - I like that, but don't think it's a tell.
- ThenewEarth: Also null. Looking forward to her play on day 2.
- Penguin and Shannon I lean town on.
- Astralfire seemed weakly scummy.
- Chrimi would be my second suspect, I got a mixed read on her. Her words sounded like town, but her voting pattern on day 1 could make sense for scum. And her role speculation post today was a bit weird too.

FoS: Chrimi

@Drone. No, my impression wasn't that the wagon was scum-driven. More that they sat back and let it happen. The lynch didn't strike me as weird , just a typical day 1 lynch based mainly on annoyance / nearing deadline. I suspect I would have hammered it too, had I been there. Like you said, there weren't really any better candidates.

However: you were the only one expressing regret even before it happened, and still defending it now. So I'm happy to keep my vote on you.

I was not regretting the lynch cause a no lynch on day 1 is worse than a mislynch on day 1 as it would bring nothing to work with.
0x40's lynch was good and I called out that leaving him alive would only hold us down on day 2 (post 504).
Although I haven't voted him because when I joined and caught up, he was already L1. Hammering him would have been stupid..

Saying that a mislynch would be distasteful on day 1, is plain truth. I believed that he was a badplay towny, but a towny.
I personally wasn't that aware of the day limit and been trying to find better candidates.
Find them, not shoot every direction I can and hopefully alter the wagon.
Trying to scramble the game shortly after replacing is scummy as heck and foolish. So I just said what I think.

Me expressing my thoughts and read on 0x40's irrational behavior came up on day 1 and on day 2 (post 504 again).
But, if you are inclined that I am scummy, keep the vote.

What you say does make sense, but as it is wrong and a bit twisted, it's invalid.
Do you have more points? Something explaining Rocnix's scumminess perhaps?
I might not be able to speak for her, but I want to know.

[Drone]

Sorry for the long wall, forgot to use spoilers. Will do next time..

[Drone]

@thenewearth whom are you referring to?

[Drone]

Ah, I thought your BP stood for bad play, wiki saved me

[Drone]

Okay, Implosion's points on PP's behaviour is convincing and shows me he is a little shady. Kind of slipped under my radar when I've been skimming through day 1.
Now that I think of it, he could very much be the scum I've been concerned of "directing" the wagon on 0x40.
But he didn't raise the fire on 0x40.. I need to check his ISO. Never know what else I might find.

Chrimi's claim, although uncc'ed, is a bit off to me.
FoS: Chrimi.
Why would you roll with tne on the claim request?
Chrimi was quite actively producing flames on 0x40's, but she doesn't seem to be bashing just about anyone, 0x40's was bash - worthy too..

Vote: Cass.
Don't get me wrong, it's not an omgus vote. You didn't answer my question which directly refers to something you addressed.
Rather quickly your attention turned to Chrimi and tne, after you voted me.
I anticipate your answer about Rocnix. Don't ignore something you started.

[Drone]

Ebwodp :

FoS: Chrimi

Vote: Drone

[Drone]

Ebwodp :

Unvote:
Vote: Cass

[Drone]

@AF
I wasn't voting 0x40. I wasn't in the wagon which lead his lynch.
And I explained why I read him as a bad play towny, rather than a scum.
It's completely possible as an option.
My reads so far:
Astral Flare: null. Haven't been active enough to tell, when posts, posts reasonable arguments. Although a vote for the first post for a while is not all that towny imo.
Shannon: Towny. Active, investigative, motivated to catch scum. No visible slips.
Implosion: Null/weak town lean. Investigative and active. Informative. Proved to closely pay attention to any mistake anyone would say and as he promised, followed PP closely since day 1. Came back with a strong argument to start a wagon on him.
tne: null. Mostly unpredictable, pointing out things, but not explaining. Seems like she intentionally skips explaining and elaborating. Too open to be scummy (she ain't stupid and is experienced). But you can never know.
Cass: null. As Jibs there were some "wtf" moments, (181 as for most memorable example), could be towny with newb mistakes. As Cass whatsoever, interestingly charged on me. This is yet another flip from 818. Contradictions. Null.
Chrimi:Town lean/null Since I joined the game, I felt like Chrimi is just very straightforward and aggressive by nature. Hoping that it is who she is, she totally town read to me.
Hoping is not enough though, as Chrimi is a bit less aggressive this day. Trustworthy, but not too much.
Points for uncc'ed claim.
PP: null/scummy lean. I don't want to declare "OmGeeZus sCoOm!!@#£" by relying only on Implosion's case on PP. He is a very experienced and good player but I want to see and judge for myself. Also I promised to review his ISO, which I haven't done yet.

[Drone]

At the end of d1?
Chrimi/tne.

[Drone]

Ebwodp:
Referring to Shannon's question

[Drone]

@Cass

Rocnix's play style is different than mine. Some things she done were foolish in my opinion and put me in a disadvantage of not being able to fully explain these actions.
For example, jumping from vote to vote which is considered scummy. But apparently it is a tool here to make others talk (then what are FoSes here for anyway?). So I don't know, Rocnix was voting those she wanted information from, but the pattern of returning to tne shortly after (about three times) is not something to be laid to rest.
As for myself; I do not condemn policy lynching. But for me, on day 1 (espeically when I only replaced and didn't check thoroughly ALL the options) checking other options would be essential and the best thing I could do.
I thought 0x40 was a towny (I repeat myself, a bad one too), so I've been checking other options.

For AF; I explained why my vote is on Cass; for information.
I did receive it, and willing to unvote.

/unvote

If you'd who'd be my best choice for lynch on day 2? It would be PP. But I yet to have a better case to vote. I don't think voting basing only on someone's

[Drone]

I'll start off with stating that I'm commenting on PP's ISO.
Took me some time, I'm very sorry. Been tight on time lately.

Implosion's case on you has been answered by you in day 1, where you've been explaining that you're taking a new turn in your playstyle.
You did change it, it's very visible and unlike the other two games, you've been actually quite helpful to town.
It is entirely my idiocy that I haven't read and processed what I read well enough to jump on Implosion's "case" against you.

You are, perhaps the strongest town read player I currently have. And while Jibs would have been a target for a lynch now, Cass' play is a 180 degrees flip and doesn't allow me scum read her.
By the way. Yes, Rocnix was mysteriously ranked most town by Jibs (181), especially since she hadn't contributed much at all.
Cass whatsoever, covered it up with her constant, logical and reasonable scum hunting (if it is towards me, yes.)
I fail to see how much I contribute too. This burdens me a bit and I'm willing to do something about it.
I'll begin with answers to the questions given to me.

[Drone]

That is exactly what I am saying. If Jibs/Cass is scum, then there's a huge scum slip in (181), if town, Cass is definitely covering up bad plays, and successfully.
In fact against Cass, there is just nothing I can call scummy. Even the points against me.
And, as a replacement, I know Cass can't answer questions to Jibs like Jibs can.
But if I am allowed to ask unnecessarily silly question.
@Cass
As Jibs, why would he rate Rocnix/me so low? Even context less posts (Rocnix's) are considered scummy.

@tne, we can't confirm which build this exactly is, but we do have an uncc'ed role. Why you want her lynched..? I really don't get it much.

[Drone]

tne, can you please shed some light onto this wagon on you?
You're active, yes. But uninformative.
Alright you never actually voted her. You did cause her to claimed, now she's uncc'ed.
What have you to say now? You asked for the claim.
You had a motive.

Speak up please.

Intent to hammer

[Drone]

Me. And that's cause she was digging exactly where I wanted her to dig, and pointing out exactly what I wanted her to.
In fact, I've done the same thing.

[Drone]

That's a quick wagon what was forged here.
Seeing that answers from tne's impossible so we're moving to Cass?

Let's do this: I'd wait for AF's thoughts on this and Cass' defence.
And join the wagon depending on Cass' defence.
FoS; Cass

[Drone]

@cass
This is not a solid defence, this is you continuing to jump from vote to vote, which makes you look worse. Even if your vote on me is an omgus, and it is.
The fact Implosion back then voted me right after you was what gives you both the description of "opportunistic". This vote jumping is my case against you now.

Vote: Cass

Btw, Shannon's pointing out that Chrimi's claim is false is what I've been thinking. Although low chances, there is a possibility there is a doc instead of a jk and he just chose the right target. Or there is a jk but no BP.
I wanna get back to one of the first questions been asked after your claim. Why would mafia target Chrimi? And @Chrimi do you know you've been targeted?
There is still the chance mafia didn't target anyone at all.

[Drone]

@pp
It is Cass' jumps from wagons to wagons.
Failing to give a solid defence, and constant attempts to build a case on revolving Rocnix, whom I cannot explain.
I, on the other hand, don't need Jibs to point out weaknesses, it's exactly what I did. And there are things to question about Jibs.
Also, it kinda looks like, when I look back now that me saying 0x40's wagon was directed by scum at some point, made Cass uncomfortable. She countered me with the opposite possibility and blamed me directly for it, ignoring Implosion's same action.
She moved to Implosion right when there was a wagon on him, she did bring a case on her own, opportunistic is the word.

[Drone]

Ebwodp:
She didn't bring *

[Drone]

Holy... Shit!
I honestly didn't think you were jk, thought you were a bit too active.
This really does fuck up things. No use in lynching Shannon. It lowers the number of towns.
Chrimi might get nked, so it's best if we do not touch any of them. Having a clear towny is very very good.
We're left with tne and Cass.
According to my memory, one cannot perform actions while being jked. If tne is scum it might clear out why there was no nk.

There's also still Cass, seems a bit jimpy-jumpy. Could have tried to bus (if she's scum with tne).
Comes to think of it, Cass/tne is a possibility. Can explain why there was no nk.

[Drone]

And yes, my top candidates are Cass/tne

[Drone]

Votes Drone.
Uh no, impatient. Votes tne.
Wait wait, no, reflects stuff: votes Drone.
Ooh! A wagon! This time to the end!: Implosion
But here's a pink unicorn with sparkles!: Drone.

Are YOU trying anymore?
"Drone's posts seem townier recently.... *unvotes and votes Implosion* NOT!!! *votes Drone again*"

Please make up your mind.


Im not trying anymore?

[Drone]

@pp
Instead of haunting Implosion could you please do something useful? If I'm not wrong, Cass is at L-1.
Are you okay with the Cass wagon? If not speak up why. If yes, consider questioning her while intending to hammer.

Don't get me wrong, if I would have been protected, it would have been something I've been speaking against. Rest the case with 0x40. A player with terrible arguments, these "protections" you accuse Implosion of, are clarifications and tips from him as an IC.

The thing with Cass is, that her accusation was plain bad. Althoughthe fact that she herself was on the wagon somewhat got forgot.

Just look at the voting pattern of Cass, I summed it up for the ease of all.
Literally, starts a case on me, leaves it aside for a wagon, gets back to me, leaves yet again for an wagon, and returns to me.

[Drone]

At least we have a confirmed role list.
bp, jk, 5 vt.
Mrb, Mgoon.
Chrimi is BP.
Shannon in JK.
Either way, day 3 will begin with a confirmed town. That's good.

[Drone]

Okay so, according to what you say,
tne is the biggest candidate to be scum now.
If I'm following the theory, column A:
-No nk on n1.
-Shannon jk'ed tne.
-There's no other pr in the game.
-Chrimi is lying.
-It's either tne is scum and was performing the kill or Mafia tried to kill tne.
Why would mafia try kill tne?
If anyone, mafia would have been trying wipe out the IC first thing.

[Drone]

@pp
Instead of haunting Implosion could you please do something useful? If I'm not wrong, Cass is at L-1.
Are you okay with the Cass wagon? If not speak up why. If yes, consider questioning her while intending to hammer.

!!
Someone tell me if I'm paranoid, but doesn't this sound terribly like scum signaling to his partner that it is time to quick-hammer? I realize I'm biased, because it was me almost getting killed here, but still... Can we please lynch Drone today? We might even get lucky and have him flip RB.

And yes, this might mean Imp is town after all, though based on how this wagon on me went I'd say it's 50/50 between pp and imp, and I'll rethink it tomorrow.

The only lynch I'm 'lining up' is Drone, if we lynch someone else now, because I am so sure he is scum.

I'm pretty sure shannon, chrime, af and tne are town. 50/50 on imp&pp and convinced Drone is scum. So it looks simple to me, yay. Well, who to lynch does. The rest of this game looks like a hot mess.

I'm going to go ahead and ignore this post.

UNVOTE: Cass

[Drone]

That might be true, it does worry me, yet I can't see a way out of it now. I have only drone/imp/pp as possible scum now. And when I iso imp or pp I don't see them as a likely pair (imp 387; 531, penguin 711) so that brings me back to Drone again. And on this recent wagon on me, Drone looks reaaly bad, or is that really just me and my confbias?

Actually, it might look bad, but my opinion on you has changed from one edge to another TWICE.
at the beginning of the day you almost convinced me you're towny. But then you began jumping from votes in a very strict pattern. And quickly.
I think it was af who said it's towny? Well it's not.
Townies consider their votes before they vote.
And if they do, they at least give a good reason for the jumps..
Also they don't find intention to hammer on wagons they are in (tne) as scummy. It's contradictory.

[Drone]

Woops, forgot to VOTE: thenewearth

[Drone]

Basically, it's all statistics. The chance Chrimi was shot/tne was saved/tne way blocked. Statistically the chances are the same.
But I return to my former question, why would mafia target tne?

[Drone]

Town does intend to hammer to get someone talking. Town wouldn't hammer without hearing them.
There's this difference, it seems small but it's not.
Even if Chrimi was shot, it wouldn't have cleared tne completely, just lowering the chances. There are two scum alive.

I unvoted Cass because there is no point keeping the vote on Cass. Im honestly getting tired of this argument (Cass/me) as it lost its points already. It's just goes over and over the same points.
We've heard her case, doesn't seem like it was convincing (she herself ain't convinced, calling herself paranoid n stuff).
And I made mine, which are still viable for me and I still think the same.

The latest posts are all the same contexts repeating themselves and we don't really get anywhere.
Not only that, it turns out the claim isn't that bad, and it's all thanks to the no nk on n1.
The game is not lost at all and I feel some extreme overreaction was staged here in purpose (tne).


If scenario 5, tne ain't scummy.
But we can't prove it. We don't know so we'll be working with all the options.

[Drone]

While Cass is somewhat right, it does give mafia more information and an easy nk on the main town pr, but at this stage, with our current information we can and will overcome it.
The information mafia gained is at best, a little of help.

[Drone]

The no lynch would give us nothing.
We want tne's flip. That's vital information

[Drone]

Lol. I only noticed it just now. But also the description of Chrimi day 1 doesn't add up to me. She didn't seem so towny, dominant and scum hunting. She was a bit closer to tne's common read.

[Drone]

Astral talking about Chrimi day 1, and not the possibility of her nk on n2

[Drone]

Uh, that's a third vote movement from me.
Would be stupid on my part to blame Cass for jumping around votes while doing it myself.
But if AstralFlare will not cooperate, or will not explain himself in a satisfactory manner, I will.
It could also be him messing up his own words (I have this problem too {me accidently voting myself})

[Drone]

You think Chrimi is scum..?
I mean, a more logical possibility is af trying to sound super town by sticking to current "confirmed" towns, horribly slipping.
Don't think it's protecting... You think it's a goon goon?

[Drone]

Anyone else up for posting the same fucking shit over and over again but with different use of words?
Where's tne? Is she talking? No? Good.
VOTE: thenewearth

I also really want Imp's reaction now.

[Drone]

I kinda expected you to notice how some just repeat the conclusions we've already came up hundreds of times.
And btw Imp, tne's lynch would give us all what we need to know on n1's nk fate.
That's pretty much the only thing we can do to win helpful information

[Drone]

Af, Chrimi is not clear as Implosion said.
It's very possible that tne was saved, unlikely.. But possible.

There's still the possibility we're dealing with goon/goon (don't remember the grid's line names)

Only now I realise how bad this jk claim was.

Thoughts on tne flip:
We didn't lose a big contributor. But her death contributed to my understanding that were back to square 1 again.

[Drone]

Implosion isn't scum.

I understand if you think tne is town and want to start a different wagon, but please choose someone actually scummy- Like AstralFlare, Cass, Drone, Penguin.. I know that's most of the playerlist but implosion just isn't scum. None of his posts make sense coming from scum, his thought process is town.. There isn't even a real case on him except people just saying "yeah I guess implosion is scum: vote"

A contradiction incoming;

VOTE: implosion
It's at the point where I'm clear. The only person who questioned this in my last newbie game was scum. B)

You're not clear, widely town read by most, that is.
Nothing confirms a bp exists, if we would have gotten a rb flip, then we'd have had you cleared.
And why are you voting Implosion? Is it an OMGUS?

[Drone]

L-2 on Implosion if I'm not mistaken.

@Chrimi
That's hardly a case, a coincidence perhaps?
Besides, I too think it's possible that you are not a bp, and that you might as well be scum who had tremendous great timing.
It's a possibility, and I can't ignore it. However I do not rush to accuse you of being scum.
Currently I feel you're towny but I will pay more attention to your posts..

@Astralflare
I'd definitely pick Chrimi over tne for a nk as a scum, but this question you just asked makes you scummy af.
Also tne's been on your trail on end day 2.

VOTE: AstralFlare

I hardly remember any contribution you've made to town, in fact I've been following your patten of posting and it really feels like you've been sliding under the radar with only showing up here and there and blend in the ongoing topic at the time.
Offering mostly rephrased context of the same content already been shared and discussed.
Then you come questioning whom would we nk'ed in between tne and Chrimi.
I mean, could be improbability scum were aiming for,
And you still mentioning it and siding with Chrimi doesn't sound too well.
Give us content, reads, thoughts. Anything to work with

[Drone]

If you advocate 0x40's behaviour and find the IC not an eligible individual to handle it, then your whole post is voided.
Oh also if you manage to prove Chrimi's innocence, please do post the proof. I really would like to know where you get this safe feeling from.

[Drone]

I'm gonna bold my comments as I'm commenting inside the quote window.

So, I don't see much having changed since my last reads were posted. Chrimi is still conf!town to me. I don't think the TNE lynch really gave us much since everyone except Cass was on the wagon. I do have to question whether both scum were on the wagon or if one stayed off to provide some distancing. No evidence there...just a possibility.

Wait what? So according to you we lynched tne for nothing? Are you sure you're still with us?

AF hasn't done anything to make me change my read on him...still leaning town.

Well then if he didn't do anything to change you're reads, what has he done to make you read him town? I don't see it..

Cass still null...I would have gone leantown, but remaining off the TNE wagon, and the quick start of an implosion wagon at the beginning of the day are a bit offputting. Still, unvoted.

Ouch. This one just... Like... Completely deleted every town read I had on you.
You don't know why we lynched tne, you don't give any meaningful points and your general blabbery about things we've gone over makes me wanna switch my vote. Really bad.

[Drone]

The last comment was an overall comment on that post. Should have commented outside I guess.

I'm mostly worried about pp's opinion on tne flip, that it doesn't give us anything new. I could only guess pp already knew tne was town.. Scum much?

Edit in preview:
Based on..?
I kinda agree with Chrimi's interpretation of Implosion's play as towny.

Also read 857 to answer your question. You obviously don't even read.

[Drone]

No. I didn't talk about the wagon. I don't care for the wagon.
What I said was referring the flip. Her being town messes our findings so far a bit.
I don't know what you tried to get from the wagon read when the wagon was solely made for information, which is why tne didn't even bother posting much against it.
She did give her own "town list" though, which I directly referred to in my post on af.
This was what triggered me to reread his ISO, and conclude the conclusion I posted earlier.

You come up saying I'm scum, according to?

[Drone]

But, you are right. I didn't say the lynch for crucial.
It was crucial.

[Drone]

Ebwodp:
Didn't say the lynch was **

[Drone]

Being obvious?
Do you even read? One of the main reasons behind tne's lynch was to shed light on night 1.
With Shannon's claim and the calculations afterwards led to the conclusion that a tne lynch would be most profitable to town.
With tne's flip, a few "scenarios" are now voided, leaving us with two main scenarios.
1)Chrimi is the BP, blocked a nk and we're dealing with goon/rb
2)tne was saved, Chrimi remains quite questionable and we might be dealing with goon/goon.

See? Without a tne flip we'd be cycling through scenarios and probability lists with no leads.
tne was somewhat anti-town and I did contribute my part on her lynch, fully believing in what I'm doing.

I did not lynch TNE for information, we knew beforehand that a town flip would not give much. I honestly hoped she'd flip scum, against my instincts. If I was scum with drone, why would I have opposed a tne lynch at all? I'd have pushed it through quickly and hammered much sooner. There was a perfectly convincing case to be made there, not that anyone really bothered.

So: PP, Chrimi, Astralflare - shall we lynch Drone today? I mean, he is being quite obvious now, amirite?

VOTE: Drone

That would have been a very, very very foolish scum, which you are not at least in my opinion.

What's your case on me again?

[Drone]

And just to remind you, that repetitive possibility chart cycle made you think of a no-lynch.
Which was a terrible idea.

[Drone]

@Implosion and Chrimi
My vote on AstralFlare feels comfy until further notice from him, I feel like I'm on to something.
I kinda believe it's af/Cass mafia and since Cass already is on L-2 and we haven't heard anything of neither af or Cass, I guess it's optimal to stay on af at least for now.
Since pp didn't vote Cass yet, I guess it's okay to keep Cass at L-2, I would also like a longer day. Want some answers..
By the way af and Cass share this "filler" posting similarity.
Or I'm the only one seeing this in af?

[Drone]

@Implosion
About me/Cass;
If I was scum with Cass and she'd be digging under me like she did day 2, she'd be way too obvious with her attempt at a bus. Although as Jibs and Rocnix, I'd think as you do (#181).
I really don't think Cass would be so obvious, it's almost a newbie slip.

[Drone]

My bad, Implosion didn't vote Cass. She's L-3.

[Drone]

Uh.. If you didn't notice, I thought Implosion did vote you and didn't want someone to hammer you before anyone else could do anything.
Rushing at these critical times is bad.
Besides, I said I believe you're scum with af, and explained why af is my current choice.
Also here's a new point: You take risks at a mylo? What would you gain from them if someone would have actually hammered Implosion? What kind of information is of use when the game is already over?

Btw about Implosion: it just so happens that when he posts something, it's so detailed and understandable that I don't need to ask anything. He already answers.
But there was this pp/Implosion interaction where I objected his point and found pp very towny (I regret it so much after his last post).
So yeah, I ram those I feel like I deserve information from. Or just disagree...

I push both of you and AstralFlare but very carefully. I do not hide it and happily admit it. I ship af/Cass mafia and want to lynch one of you. You didn't make any new point just elaborated literally what I've been doing and added some words to make it sound like scummy behaviour.

[Drone]

For those considering me as scum, ask yourself the following questions please:
- Why would I have resisted the Tne lynch as long as I did, if I knew she was town? I had a solid reasoning why scum would do what she did, as scum I would have pushed that hard and made it quick.
- Why would I have targeted (as scum) anyone but Shannon on Night 1, considering I believed she had breadcrumbed a PR?

1) Because you could have done what you blamed me for.
2) Because you didn't? You are a replacement from day 2, the no nk was n1. At the beginning of day 2 you said nothing about Shannon, except flat reads.

[Drone]

Ok,mI completely understand all the arguments about how uncertainty right now is bad, and I'm not nearly as certain as I may seem. But here's where I am stuck at - and I'd love counter- arguments:

1. Drone/ Rocnix. The core thing here is all the talk about 0x40 being a policy lynch, repeatedly, and before the flip. I just really don't see why a townie would do that. Why?? Makes no sense. But a newb-scum, knowing of imminent town-flip and wanting to wash her/his hands of it? Yes, makes a lot of sense.
2. I can't see PP or AF as Drones buddy, because of their interactions. And that leaves only Implosion. Making me read their actions today as sneakily ganging up on me, making me paranoid and aggresive. Yes.

Now @Implosion, if you are town: try imagining I'm town too and consider if it makes sense then, what I'm saying.
@Chrimi: I hope you can also try this, having a more neutral mindset than me. Imagine the case where me and Imp are townies tearing into each other. In this case the scum would be among PP/AF/ Drone. Is this a serious option in your opinion?

I'm also(if slowly) rereading and hoping to find anything that could help us fix this mess.

Didn't I answer that a few hundred of posts ago? There's nothing to keep discussing here, and even if 0x40 was scum, it still would have a policy lynch + some failing to see his scuminess.
And I already said, as a replacement I wanted to get reads and see full picture before the end of day 1, without trying stir town especially since I just replaced in.
I did though, stated what I thought of 0x40.

[Drone]

Once again, I'll be commenting within the quotes bolded.

Oh also if you manage to prove Chrimi's innocence, please do post the proof. I really would like to know where you get this safe feeling from.

Something something 25% chance. Do you think there's a possibility Chrimi is scum?

Possibility exists, always.
However I read her town in every aspect since mid-end day 2 increasingly, the more I heard of her, the more I let go of the suspicions and questions I had towards her.
However that's my personal read, and I wanted to know how you could be so sure of her being towny, as an individual.

On another note

VOTE: AstralFlare

Any reason why? Your last case on me was ages ago.

I believe this was derived by my post.

[/i]

Well then if he didn't do anything to change you're reads, what has he done to make you read him town? I don't see it..

Like, I did stuff yesterday that looked towny, then I didn't do anything today, so I'm still towny. I don't get what you're going at here. I see nothing wrong with this part of his logic.

Probably because I awfully felt you're scum and couldn't consider other's reads? I feel like your day 2 posts were fillers, they surely did look towny, but in my opinion they were mainly a polished copy pasted points of others.

I'll be back after dinner.

I'd like your thoughts on Cass now.

I'd like that too.

[Drone]

4) Scum targeted whoever you fucking jailkept?

Why would scum target fucking TNE?? She's been cryptic and anti town and generally unhelpful and scum

likes

that.

Also while on TNE I just think she's town who doesn't gaf too much about winning this shit. I mean it's consistent with her meta.

Sorry I'm pretty worked up

Chrimi here provided an option which could equally have happened as her being the target of nk 1
Now since the probability of this happening statistically is the same (without jk chances calculated, they come after), town can't really explain why this would have happened.
You said Chrimi was the best target, I disagreed.
But then you also gave a reason why tne wouldn't be target which brought me to my first point on you day 3.
Its a simple LAMIST to say "why would they target her she's so anti town!", while actually targeting her, thinking town would be going "wtf" on that and lose trails of thought and ideas.

Ok thought about it VOTE: TNE

The way I see it, assuming both claims are true, there's two possibilities

1) Scum targeted TNE
TNE didn't die due to jailkeep, thus explaining the lack of a night kill. The way I see it this is unlikely, since scum would have no reason to target TNE. Like I said, she has been generally suspicious, even inciting a wagon to the point of intent to hammer. The opinions and votes she expressed in day one came without much attempt to convince town to follow along, thus making her a low threat to scum.

2) TNE is scum
This one seems the more likely of the two. Like, there's a reason why you get to L-1. Implosion is right that her emotional response makes her less likely to be scum, and I've been gut reading her town for a very long time now. That said, my vote is still going to go on her. She's my preferred lynch choice for today.

If fakeclaims:

3) Chrimi scum and fakeclaiming.
Nah 75% chance she will be counterclaimed, I don't think scum would pull out such a risky gambit.

4) Chrimi town and fakeclaiming
This one is more likely, although I don't get the motivation for doing so? It's obvious that there isn't a doctor/cop pair to protect this game since Shannon already claimed JK. If someone could explain why they think this is possible to me


If no one, we need to find another "consensus candidate".

These scenarios have been processed so many times yet you came in posting them again. Instead of saying what would happen if we lynch tne and she'll come out X, we'll have to go/do Y.
Merely stating what could have happened instead of saying what we'll be doing.
Now, I myself posted these options, not as meaty text-wise.
Implosion posted them as well, also providing his own opinions of what to do.
These happened before your analysis post.
This really feels like attempting at sounding town by pointing things already been pointed out.
Who's the other options??

I also commented on these analysis posts since they were repeating themselves and got us nowhere.

OK I can't make sense of this game, so I'll get you guys to do it instead.

Of the five possible scenarios I outlined above, which do you think is the most likely, and why?

Again, repeating yourself, asking a question that basically means "comment on that plz, I contribute!".
Those scenarios already been thought of.

Also I really like 750
Also I want the answer from the rest of you guys- which is the most likely scenario?

I answered that they're all possible, same probabilities.
But you still want more to notice your "contribution".

Are people advocating TNE just as an information lynch? When we have one mislynch left?

You had any better options?

If anyone is going to hammer please make it fast. Claiming, deciding whether to hammer, getting last words— all these take time. Time we no longer have. There's a little over three days left to go.

No, I was just asking the question, no implication behind it. I just hadn't seen those names mentioned much lately.

Weird, because it seems half the player base wants to lynch me

A one game sample size isn't much to go on... If you're voting implosion there's far more scummy things you can base it on, I'm sure.

I used the word 'clear' since it's extremely inprobable TNE was targeted day one: just think, if you were scum, would you rather kill TNE or Chrimi?

So you wanted someone to hammer quick after all?
Three days ain't little time, it's a lot

Also about the Implosion thing you said.
What are those mote scummy things he did? I happened to miss it.


Overall, I didn't like these posts.
You did use your head, but where are the options you thought of? Aside people providing cases for you, and people sorting the mess you couldn't figure out for you?

But..!
I did certainly like your posts after you were prodded.
Finally you have given us content.
A bit of an overkill, but content.

Before I'm unvoting you, I'm going to reread your latest posts and leave a question for you;
What are your thoughts on pp?

And, whom should we lynch today in your opinion (let's pretend nl isn't an option).

[Drone]

Btw I hate you for making me use so many quotes use so many editing options.
Submitting posts through the phone is a pain in the ass as it is..
And have access to my pc only at weekends. (excluding this one)

[Drone]

Do none of you honestly have any reaction to my vote on Cass, who I have been town reading for many a page?

I am a bit too late to that very party. :V

UNVOTE: but still FoS Cass.

I'm town and imp is town, so on the off chance Cass is town as well I don't want scum hammering.

Is that an arguement at all? And.. for what?

You're trying too hard to look like town;
"Im town" statements shouldn't be even said for crying out loud! They sound like a desperate attempt at being convincing.
and if you are town, you should at least answer the post that you made me do :V


@pp

PP, why do you want an implosion lyncH over a Cass one?

I keep questioning my Drone/Cass read...though recently I'm leaning more to Cass. Implosion seems to be constant between the two.

Cool stuff, why aren't you voting either of em?



@Cass

Only because I'm convinced you're town, and I don't want to lose us the game. With that unvote there, I'll just stop doubting it. AF = town, Chrimi = town. But you should be even more paranoid, because Chrimi would vote me too and she's town and PP (who has to be scum in that scenario) is readying the hammer.

That post by PP was seriously scummy (assume for a moment he's scum and knows I'm town...). If that's right, it's PP/Drone or PP/Implosion - I think the latter, so I'm leaving my vote on. Hope I still have time to read up (not now, gtg, alas).

Where do I begin...?

Trying to get out of the mess she's in by directing firing wherever she can? :V
And she's been accusing ME for being obvious? :V

@Cass
Im so tempted to change my vote, but you have enough pressure on you already, I dont want the day to end yet.

The reason Cass ain't hammered yet is not because scum are already on her, it's because she's scum. :V
Otherwise a quickhammer would have been done.

The only reason I'm not voting Cass is because I am very curious of PP and AF, just for clarity.

[Drone]

Sorry for being missing.. but not much changed anyway.

[Drone]

@PP

My bad, misread the votecount.

[Drone]

Unvote

VOTE: Cass

Tired of this vote-unvote party, I'll get us closer to one of the day's goals.
If the general activity was a bit higher, I would have kept waiting for an answer from AstralFlare. It's no the case.
And I am not going to get it apparently.

Clarification; while a NL would have been optimal to get more space for questioning and answering, this game isn't all that active, no one's talking at all..
Cass didn't provide much of a solid defence. Cass did however, share what she felt N1 about Shannon (no, Cass. That's not a solid defence).

Now the option is up to the rest of you.
L-1 doesn't seem to be enough to get Cass going in the right direction... Maybe intent to hammer will?
If Cass wouldn't have been scum, she would have been quick hammered already. Her, or Imp (whom she was on, so that couldn't technically happen).

We can also wait three days for the remaining time to elapse, i ain't gonna vote NL. I really don't think it's a good idea.
If scum did target Chrimi n1 and she'd die this night, we'd be a bit screwed. Not risking that.

[Drone]

@AF whom would she be pushing a lynch on? :V

[Drone]

Overally, this game wasn't simple, especially for me..
If not Chrimi and Imp, I wouldn't have survived day 2

[Drone]

Lol, obviously scum thread would always be more clarified than the town thread.
I would like you to tell me where I seemed noobtown.. For research purposes.