Newbie 1803 (Game Over)

[Draynth]

VOTE: BlueGenie
I've never seen Aladdin so I dunno if the genie in that is a good guy or not

[Draynth]

It can't be me 'cos what harm can an inexperienced, innocent newbie cause?

This feels like a setup for a potential 'newbie mistake' later in the game, maybe I'm just cynical

[Draynth]

Well I guess those 2 are going to be replaced.
@Huntress, do you agree or disagree with 14?

[Draynth]

Oh wait they have until tomorrow, I'm dumb

[Draynth]

Well I guess those 2 are going to be replaced.
@Huntress, do you agree or disagree with 14?

As I indicated in 12, by using the IGMEOU emote, it's a wait and see thing.


Yes, the missing newbies will likely be replaced as they haven't been back to the site since they first signed up.

Oh right, I think I got confused when you used the emoji but then said you liked the post, I understand what you meant now

[Draynth]

Main thing to remember with quotes is to just quote the part of the post you are replying to. Don't quote the whole post unless it's all relevant. If you highlight the part of the text you want, then press quote, it'll only quote that part.

I've been on MS for over 2 years and just now learnt that is a thing, holy crap

[Draynth]

Loving the gif in the VC

@Mod

welcome to the other 2 players

[Draynth]

@Charles
Any serious / semi-serious thoughts?

@Pyra
Yeah but it's RVS so why not. In your opinion, does putting someone at L-1 (or close to it) in RVS yield anything?

[Draynth]

You can use either of these

Code: Select all

[unvote]*Name*[/unvote]
[uv]*Name*[/uv]

[Draynth]

Similarly, to vote, you can use

Code: Select all

[v]*Name*[/v]
[vote]*Name*[/vote]

[Draynth]

Hey, we were all newbies at some point!

[Draynth]

What's your analysis of the voting so far?

BlueGenie wagon:

With only 5 to lynch, the 3rd vote to me seems to be where people bring in the real pressure (and 4th is a legitimate threat). I'm not sure if it's normal to go that far in RSV but when bubblecube joined the BlueGenie wagon it felt excessive, and she backed off again for essentially no reason:

By 'real pressure', do you mean that it's getting to the point where someone might be lynched?
Also, in my experience, it's not unusual for a wagon to get to L-1 in RVS. Provided noone get's quickhammered during it, I think it provides valuable information about those on the wagon and the person being wagoned.

It can't be me 'cos what harm can an inexperienced, innocent newbie cause?

I relate to this post a bit too much

Unvote: BlueGenie

So I find that kinda odd.

Does 'odd' make you think that bubblecube is town, or scum?

My own wagon:

Seems pretty straightforward for Huntress (I was self-voting) as either town or early game "helpful" scum so I don't have a read yet. BlueGenie went with Huntress against me possibly to build up another wagon and take off pressure from BG's own wagon. That action in itself isn't inherently scummy though, town doesn't want to get lynched and there was literally no case against BG so to me that reads neutral.

bubblecube wagon:

Pyra was muddying the waters a bit with the third wagon an I'm not sure what the value was in it without an explanation, and later said it was to "open it up" which is hard to read at this time. I joined in because I wanted to see bubblecube defend her BlueGenie vote, but as discussed above bubblecube backed down. I jumped off of bubblecube so I could point at Charles II and back it with a vote but that doesn't mean I'm not still suspicious.

Charles II:

I'm the only one on this one so far and maybe he's just newb-ing around or maybe he's poorly disguised scum.

I like this post, you're putting thought into the reasoning behind player's actions, which to me is a town tell.

[Draynth]

Welcome Ciara

[Draynth]

Try pressing preview

[Draynth]

@Voctus
See the first two parts of 51

[Draynth]

I have good reason to vote Voctus. He's a big meanie. A

Is that reason OMGUS or are you seeing something else?

Made a typo, but I'm being overly defensive because I find it frustrating that Voctus is voting me, a town. As I said before there's so many other people here that he could've voted for but he votes me. Which is counterproductive. He really should be more careful about who he's voting. I'm willing to unvote if he unvotes me however.

There isn't really any benefit to getting frustrated, particularly this early in the game. The easiest way for you to win the game as town is to A)Find Scum or B)Show everyone that you are town (primarily by doing A) so they don't need to spend time looking into you.
The thought process of 'Why are you voting me, stop voting me, I'm town, go find scum' (or something similar) isn't helpful either

If you are town, as Ciara said, then prove it! Examine the posts so far and think about them critically. Does this post make me think this person is Town, or scum? Why does it make you think that? Is there any specific reason that this person would post this as either alignment? This is the mindset you should have when trying to find scum.

[Draynth]

Also, Gerald is obvtown

[Draynth]

Geralt*, sorry

[Draynth]

also can someone explain what IGMEOY means? apologies since I don't know the meaning of a lot of the slang here

It means 'I've got my eye on you', similar to FOS meaning 'Finger of suspicion'

[Draynth]

Sorry for being useless/having no reads but I still don't think everyone has posted enough for me to really read them.

I wouldn't worry too much about not having reads on people yet, it's still quite early. Look through the posts and ask questions about any that don't sit right or you need to clarify, this will help greatly in finding out the motives behind people's actions.

[Draynth]

With BlueGenie being replaced, that eliminates him from my list of scummies, the slot he was playing might be scum but this early, it's a shot in the dark.

why is the slot removed from your scum reads?

I agree with the rest of 86, I just didn't want to quote the whole thing just to say I agree with it.

[Draynth]

With BlueGenie being replaced, that eliminates him from my list of scummies, the slot he was playing might be scum but this early, it's a shot in the dark.

why is the slot removed from your scum reads?

I agree with the rest of 86, I just didn't want to quote the whole thing just to say I agree with it.

Pretty much for the exact reason I stated that you quoted. I'm going to have to wait and see what his replacement does. It's too early to get a decent read with only one post. So Bg's slot goes from scum read to neutral until his replacement shows up and posts, which will help formulate a new read.

That doesn't explain why you specifically think that the slot needing a replacement leads you to believe it might not be scum though
why is it more likely in your mind that town!BlueGenie is being replaced as opposed to scum!BlueGenie

[Draynth]

You see that's my point, my initial impression of your post was that you were townreading the slot for being replaced, but I now understand that it's more the case that you are just 'starting again' with your read on the slot (Correct me if I'm wrong)

[Draynth]

VOTE: Unvote

@Huntress

What specifically makes you think Pyra is scum?

Also welcome TheGreatLakes, what are your thoughts on the game so far?

[Draynth]

@Huntress this is what I noticed

@Huntress, I saw no reason for me to vote the other two based solely upon the fact that they already had votes on them (genie didn't even talk yet lol). Plus, correct me if I'm wrong here, wouldn't starting a third wagon open it up for everyone else? Having three more established options to vote for just seems like it would be better for gathering some form of information than only having two. It's not like any of the first votes on page 1 have any significant commitment put into them anyways, so I'll probably end up changing my mind later (or not).

Pyra didn't really answer your question of "Why vote Bubblecube rather than Voctus or BlueGenie".
They instead talked about how starting a 3^rd wagon isn't necessarily a bad thing to do. Even in RVS it's generally accepted that you should give

some

reason for your 'random vote', the fact that Pyra didn't do so in the original voting post or the follow up post could be a possible interaction to make note of down the line, however I don't think it's anything more than me being pedantic at the moment.

Pyra also says

"I'll probably end up changing my mind later (or not)"

which seems like Pyra could be setting up for a 'Get out of jail free card' type situation, where they can point to this when jumping on/off a wagon.

(Mfw I almost completely forgot about this game)
As a response to whoever asked me about whether it was useful to get someone to L-1 in RVS (too lazy to find a quote), I just don't think it's likely that anyone will give a useful reaction to being at L-1 through votes that they know are there for almost no reason.

I just realised I never responded to this post.
The thing is, in my opinion scum and town players will have very different reactions to being put to L-1 in RVS, even if they are there for 'no reason'. Scum will probably be much more panicky and eager to shift the votes elsewhere, where as town should almost feel a false sense of security. I think there are subtle differences between these two that can sometimes be seen at the start of the game.

Other than a typical salty "why me" reaction, scum probably isn't too worried about actually being lynched because no good townie would hammer an RVS wagon if the subject hasn't done anything yet.

Mistakes do happen, and a scum getting accidentally hammered day 1 is much more detrimental to scum than a town getting hammered day 1 is to town (I hope that makes sense. I tend to word things poorly sometimes)

The rest of Pyra's posts are mostly fluff / game theory stuff.

Most of this is wild speculation or me disagreeing with Pyra's reasoning about the whole L-1 RVS stuff, which ultimately isn't really Alignment Indicative since the former is speculation and the latter doesn't mean Pyra is scum (Wrong (from my POV) /= scum)

[Draynth]

Welcome!

Is this your very first game or have you played elsewhere before?

If this is your first game ever, be sure not to reveal anything about your Role PM or anything Bins sent you

. FEel free to ask questions if you aren't familiar with what goes on.

What made you say this? (Bolded)

[Draynth]

Welcome!

Is this your very first game or have you played elsewhere before?

If this is your first game ever, be sure not to reveal anything about your Role PM or anything Bins sent you

. FEel free to ask questions if you aren't familiar with what goes on.

What made you say this? (Bolded)

I know him IRL from work, and suggested that he might replace in. I was making sure that kept his role to himself and that he wouldn't reveal anything.

Hmm ok, at first glance it looks like you (potentially) warning a scum buddy not to say anything incriminating.
It seems far more natural if you are indeed friends from work

[Draynth]

Hi warng!

@ Draynth:

You said quite a bit in 118 about what was in Pyra's posts, but what about what was missing from them?

Any semblance of scumhunting for one thing

[Draynth]

Hmm, that combined with the fluff / theory discussion now has me leaning scum on the Pyra slot.

VOTE: Pyra

[Draynth]

I look forward to warng's thoughts on the game so far

@Voctus

You've been a bit quiet, why is that?

[Draynth]

@Voctus

You've been a bit quiet, why is that?

Work trip turned into travel hell due to a hail storm in Chicago. Will post real content tonight.

That's fair enough, take your time.

Warng is definitely scum. Trying to play it safe by using outdated guides and not actually trying to solve the game

what?

@Voctus

You've been a bit quiet, why is that?

Work trip turned into travel hell due to a hail storm in Chicago. Will post real content tonight.

A hailstorm in Chicago?

When was this?

If he says there was one there was one, it's not our place to question it.
The only thing we can do is wait for content and deal with that.

[Draynth]

Happy scumday Bins

[Draynth]

So I've spoilered this purely so that it doesn't look like a massive wall, even though it's not actually that long (The slot only has

5

posts over 11 days.)

Spoiler: BlueGenie / The Great Lakes

OMG! So many votes against an innocent Genie
Well, you didn't watch Aladdin.. not my fault! But guess what, I haven't seen it either
It can't be me 'cos what harm can an inexperienced, innocent newbie cause? Moreover I chose

Genie

before the roles were even assigned. So no reason to vote against me.
Voctus voting for self.. now that's something fishy.. I'm gonna VOTE: Voctus

This post really bothered me towards the start of the day. It seems like BG was trying

very

hard to let people know that he was just an 'innocent newbie'

Hello! Even though I couldn't post I read everything so expect some stuff soon.

Opening post after replacing in

Huntress was your Voctus vote serious or random?

TGL asks a question here and doesn't do anything with the answer provided, not that it was particularly meaningful either way

VOTE: Charles

Bubble and voctus looking town.

I'll give him a pass on the Charles vote here since he was being pretty anti-town in his posts
It does, however, bother me that he doesn't supply any reasoning for bubble and voctus 'looking town'

Warng is definitely scum.

Trying to play it safe by using outdated guides and not actually trying to solve the game

The bolded really bothers me. The only way you can be

definitely

be sure that someone is either alignment is if you are the informed minority, ie. scum.

This slot in general has provided little to no content (All of the posts are quoted above), and is only posting to avoid getting prods.
That, combined with the last point, has me thinking that it's scum.

VOTE: The Great Lakes

[Draynth]

Hmm, I said I'd give him a pass on the Charles vote but actually it seems quite opportunistic.
He jumps on the wagon without mentioning Charles once (I would expect

something

, even if just 'X is scum', although that's not much better)
I think he was trying to buy some free, early Towncred with the vote

[Draynth]

okay i just realized that warng is the replacement for charles and that's why he has 3 votes on him. with the day deadline coming close, i don't necessarily want to just quickvote warng since i don't have much of a read on his one post, but i don't really want to let the day end in a no lynch.

@people voting warng, what is your reasoning for voting him? is it just to avoid a nl or do you have genuine suspicions off of his/charles behavior?

What do you think of the BlueGenie / TheGreatLakes slot?

[Draynth]

Or you're scum and just lying

Nice to see that you've decided to give some more content anyway

[Draynth]

That is L-1, do not hammer without claiming intent

[Draynth]

Sorry for the inactivity, been quite busy.

It does, however, bother me that he doesn't supply any reasoning for bubble and voctus 'looking town'

I don't think anyone asked him to, did they? If you really wanted to know you would have asked TGL yourself.

Yep, I could have. But, I think it's noteworthy that he had to be asked. I completely agree that there are times when withholding reasoning is perfectly valid and the correct thing to do, I just don't see how that could be the case here.

This slot in general has provided little to no content (All of the posts are quoted above), and is only posting to avoid getting prods.

Only one of those posts, 133, looks like a prod dodge, so to say TGL is only posting to avoid prods is disingenuous. He has only been in the thread for four days.

In four days he posted 4 times. One of these was a prod dodge, the other 3 contained little to no actual content. They may aswell have been prod dodges.

Draynth are you saying I'm bussing my partner right now? Because if I know that he's scum, and I'm scum, then I'm voting my partner, right?

Good point.

I think you're both missing the point I was trying to make.
As town, it is

literally impossible

to know that someone is

definitely

scum or

definitely

town. After all, town are the uninformed minority (I'm ignoring something like a cop being present since it's day 1).
I wasn't trying to say that TGL knew that warng was scum as much as he knew his alignment.
Does that make sense?

I kind of see where the people who are voting him are coming from, but personally I wouldn't consider just that to be enough for lynching him. I am aware that the deadline is approaching, so would I be correct in assuming that most of you are implying that lynching a slightly scummy slot is better than no lynching?

Yes. A nolynch is stasticially proven to be more beneficial to scum than town on day 1.

[Draynth]

Warng is definitely scum. Trying to play it safe by using outdated guides and not actually trying to solve the game

It's a bit odd to call someone out for using guides when they're probably new to the game and should be using guides to learn more (and using guides in general as a reason to be scumread is a stretch as well). I'm not even sure that warng cited guides in his own posts (maybe his reasoning was recognizable?). 163 and 172 look like TGL is backtracking by explaining his reasoning as a personal belief after some people objected to his scumread, although these two posts don't really seem to be that important to me alignment-wise. I will say that 172 is just really out of place in a newbie game though.

Geralt brings up an interesting point in 167 that TGL could be bussing warng for towncred (bussing a newbie scum partner D1 is just mean lol) and if you look at TGL's posts taking an intention to bus into consideration, it looks like the whole "you're scum because you use guides" is a cheapshot that would work if people were inclined to believe that sort of thing (again, not sure why you would use that logic in a newbie game, though). However, the possibility of TGL bussing also suggests that warng is scum, and right now I don't think he is (Geralt also says that he's only guessing when it comes to this point anyways).

You say that you found TGL 'odd', does that mean you were scumreading him at the time? If so, why didn't you vote for him?
This post reads as very fence sitty to me.

[Draynth]

It's so quiet :/
I'm still waiting on an answer from Pyra, but I have a question for everyone while I wait.
what to people make of the Huntress nightkill? Do you think it's more likely that a newbie or an experienced player would kill the IC?

[Draynth]

@Drayanth No. That's exactly why I didn't specifically say that I was scumreading him. If I was scumreading him I would have used the word.

Then what did you mean by odd? You clearly didn't townread him for it, and now you say you didn't scumread him for it.

Also I don't think that we should discount the possibility that there could be both an experienced player and a newbie on the scumteam. Your last post kind of makes it seem like one or the other. I think there would be different reasons for both to do so. Assuming a newbie scum is completely new to the game, they could just have killed the IC because they seemed to be the most experienced town player. I think only a newbie scum would have killed Huntress with the only reason being that they were the IC. An experienced player could have made the kill for any number of reasons.

I wasn't trying to suggest that, apologies if it was read that way.
Good point nonetheless

On a side note, should we all BP claim? I know that it's usually a decent strategy for town, but I'm not sure if it would help town as much as it normally would now on Day 2. Since two VTs have died, it might help scum more than it would town at this point.

Hmm, I don't really know to be honest.
The main reasoning behind the strategy is so that scum can't claim BP later in the game, since we haven't lost a PR yet we

could

still do it? I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on it.

Draynth:

I think he might have offed Huntress during the night or atleast have been mafia and involved in the decision. Especially since Huntress was pinging him as scum yesterday.

If I was scum wouldn't I want to avoid this exact thing since it just implicates me? It's WIFOM and literally impossible to work out. As town, I don't really care about someone scumreading me unless it get's to the point where they are tunnelling and not thinking about the game as a whole.

Another point on Draynth:

How would he know I was ObvTown (post 72?) it was day one. Only one to know for sure is scum.
Also, he said TownBlueGenie earlier in game(post 95), again, how does he know unless he is scum.

It seems incredibly unlikely that 64 came from scum!Geralt
I said town!BlueGenie because you moved the slot to your neutral reads because it was being replaced, ie. you no longer believed scum!BlueGenie to be a concern. I get where you're coming from thought

[Draynth]

@Ciara24 & @warng1286

Both of you have been very quiet, what are your thoughts at the moment?

[Draynth]

The BP claim strategy is pretty much universally a good thing to do (Most of the time), since it prevents scum from being able to claim BP down the line, I'd be happy to do it anyway. What do others think?

[Draynth]

No one has claimed a PR (and from the setup, we don't know if there are any PR's at this point), so the scum were left to a random kill.The fact that it was the IC suggest some sort of strategy,

But if killing the IC was random then how is it a strategy?
Also let's try to limit the discussion around PR's for the moment, the less we talk about it the less chance scum have of picking up on potential tells.

[Draynth]

Fair enough

[Draynth]

This game has actually become really quiet now what happened? One quick question though, is it possible that people actually fake v/la's? I was under the impression that they were sort of a serious out of character thing and they were implicitly true.

My stance on them is that they are strictly not mafia related, I think it's just better to give people the benefit of the doubt.

and yeah it's gotten way too quiet around here. Would it sstill be alright to lynch here, since we still have a ml today, or would it be better to no lynch?

do we need to do some sort of pr claim or whatever to lead or is it better to just leave pr's hidden

ciara has been awfully quiet and i'm not sure if i missed a post or if this game is just silent.a

A no lynch wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but it's effectively just giving the scum a free kill and unless it's a significant flip then we really wouldn't have a whole lot else to go on. I think that taking a shot at hitting scum is better than nolynching Day 2, particularly because otherwise it means 6 people are alive Day 3, and then it's LYLO so you either have to nolynch again or 100% hit scum which is pretty risky

[Draynth]

That last sentence wasn't very concise, let me know if you need me to explain my point a bit better

[Draynth]

I want to do

something

to get this game going again, I guess I'll try ISO'ing everyone and do up a readslist to get some content for people to interact with?
Hopefully Voctus's replacement might have some good input when they get here too

[Draynth]

welcome LicketyQuickety
Sorry to see you go Geralt :/

[Draynth]

Uh
You're replacing Voctus

[Draynth]

Good point.
The wagon was... Myself, Ciara24, Geralt, warng and Huntress.
Huntress is dead so that leaves the first four.
I'm very worried about warng right now. Ignoring his predecessor (proved to be a troll account) he hasn't really done a whole lot and has just been lurking. I believe he's been prodded so there's not much we can do at the moment.
Geralt is currently being replaced.
That leaves myself and Ciara for the time being

[Draynth]

Good point.
The wagon was... Myself, Ciara24, Geralt, warng and Huntress.
Huntress is dead so that leaves the first four.
I'm very worried about warng right now. Ignoring his predecessor (proved to be a troll account) he hasn't really done a whole lot and has just been lurking. I believe he's been prodded so there's not much we can do at the moment.
Geralt is currently being replaced.
That leaves myself and Ciara for the time being

I have noticed a pattern in your observations: you tend to look at

possibility

much more than

probability

. IDK if this is AI or not at this point, but I am guessing it is not.

Ciara is my strongest Scum lean atm.

I tend to be somewhat paranoid (This probably isn't exactly the right word for it, it's more that I tend to consider very unlikely scenarios which probably is a negative thing in the long run) but obviously this is biased coming from me so make of it what you will.
what makes you think Ciara is scum?

[Draynth]

Ty bins
Hi rc

[Draynth]

It can't be me 'cos what harm can an inexperienced, innocent newbie cause?

This feels like a setup for a potential 'newbie mistake' later in the game, maybe I'm just cynical

I think you are wrong. People don't really "set up" their plays like that in my experience, even when they are Scum.

Yeah I think I was being overly paranoid here

Good point.
The wagon was... Myself, Ciara24, Geralt, warng and Huntress.
Huntress is dead so that leaves the first four.
I'm very worried about warng right now. Ignoring his predecessor (proved to be a troll account) he hasn't really done a whole lot and has just been lurking. I believe he's been prodded so there's not much we can do at the moment.
Geralt is currently being replaced.
That leaves myself and Ciara for the time being

I have noticed a pattern in your observations: you tend to look at

possibility

much more than

probability

. IDK if this is AI or not at this point, but I am guessing it is not.

Ciara is my strongest Scum lean atm.

I tend to be somewhat paranoid (This probably isn't exactly the right word for it, it's more that I tend to consider very unlikely scenarios which probably is a negative thing in the long run) but obviously this is biased coming from me so make of it what you will.
what makes you think Ciara is scum?

Their posts, from what I have seen, tend to sidestep certain key elements for this game. The made a stance on TGL who turned out to be Town, but other than that, they have not really been talking about things that are very pertinent to the game in general.

What would you say the key elements are?
I agree with the fact that Ciara seems to be quite withdrawn with her stances on people.

@LicketyQuickety what do you think about people leaning towards TGL for a lynch based on their statement about using guides? Do you think that was a valid reason to vote (do you think TGL was genuinely scumread by people), was it a cheap shot for scum, were we just running out of time, etc?

What do you think?

[Draynth]

Also bye RC

[Draynth]

Thanks Bins

[Draynth]

I'll post tomorrow morning, generally don't have time in the evenings and I was particularly busy tonight

[Draynth]

It can't be me 'cos what harm can an inexperienced, innocent newbie cause?

This feels like a setup for a potential 'newbie mistake' later in the game, maybe I'm just cynical

I had the opposite impression of BlueGenie's post. This looks like grasping for something negative to say on page 1.

Draynth, why did BlueGenie's post stand out to you compared to bubblecube's?

Isn't everything other than rvs stuff said on early pages grasping?
Because it seemed more forced than bubblecube's

Actually with Draynth's next two posts, he appears on high alert. Maybe a playstyle? I played a game with scum-Draynth a long time ago. This feels more reactive than he was in that game. Something to verify.

Aaand on page six he votes Pyra. He definitely layed down a trajectory to that vote.

I mean, Huntress literally asked me what I thought of Pyra at the time. After examining the posts I thought Pyra could be scum so I voted, you make it sound like I had an ulterior motive.

Nooooooo Ffery replaced in to a scum slot :/

Nope. Sorry to disappoint!

More thoughts on the game?

Voctus is your partner prob

Eh voctus/ LQ town

what changed here?

So I've spoilered this purely so that it doesn't look like a massive wall, even though it's not actually that long (The slot only has

5

posts over 11 days.)

Spoiler: BlueGenie / The Great Lakes

OMG! So many votes against an innocent Genie
Well, you didn't watch Aladdin.. not my fault! But guess what, I haven't seen it either
It can't be me 'cos what harm can an inexperienced, innocent newbie cause? Moreover I chose

Genie

before the roles were even assigned. So no reason to vote against me.
Voctus voting for self.. now that's something fishy.. I'm gonna VOTE: Voctus

This post really bothered me towards the start of the day. It seems like BG was trying

very

hard to let people know that he was just an 'innocent newbie'

Hello! Even though I couldn't post I read everything so expect some stuff soon.

Opening post after replacing in

Huntress was your Voctus vote serious or random?

TGL asks a question here and doesn't do anything with the answer provided, not that it was particularly meaningful either way

VOTE: Charles

Bubble and voctus looking town.

I'll give him a pass on the Charles vote here since he was being pretty anti-town in his posts
It does, however, bother me that he doesn't supply any reasoning for bubble and voctus 'looking town'

Warng is definitely scum.

Trying to play it safe by using outdated guides and not actually trying to solve the game

The bolded really bothers me. The only way you can be

definitely

be sure that someone is either alignment is if you are the informed minority, ie. scum.

This slot in general has provided little to no content (All of the posts are quoted above), and is only posting to avoid getting prods.
That, combined with the last point, has me thinking that it's scum.

VOTE: The Great Lakes

I disagree with almost everything about this post, but maybe it's mostly because I have the flip to look at. The bit about jumping on someone for reading outdated guides is a decent point, but it comes down to a mindset case off of one statement. One word, really.

Draynth do you play a lot of newbie games?

He had posted 4 times at this point, 3 of those had 0 content. The only content he

had

posted I deemed to be scummy.

I play more newbie's than any other queue, but I don't play a whole lot in general.

Huntress' 186 with a Draynth vote is goodposting. I feel like my Draynth read has moved back and forth to some extent based on Ciara's conclusions being similar to his, but on their own, it feels like he's blown up every little thing he can with newer players.

I think this criticism is probably fair

Wait is pyra scum

?

@Wheme No, I just have a habit of not unvoting. If Bubblecube had a serious wagon on them I would have unvoted so the votes would reflect who actually scumread them, but at that time I just didn't feel the need to unvote. It's not like we need to unvote to be able to change votes anyways.

I guess I kinda get this but it's still better for everyone if you unvote someone if you no longer are scumreading them, it's very opportunistic otherwise.

Why do you guys think Huntress died

why do you think she did?

@Ciara I dunno if any of your post is addressing me but I have to head out now so I'll look through it tomorrow

[Draynth]

I mean, Huntress literally asked me what I thought of Pyra at the time. After examining the posts I thought Pyra could be scum so I voted, you make it sound like I had an ulterior motive.

To me, bubblecube's post sounded more forced than BlueGenie's, which is why I wondered that you didn't comment on it since BlueGenie's post was an issue to you.

Hmm, I read them both again and to me BG's seems more forced than bubblecubes, difference in opinion I guess

So I'm your strongest scumread?

See 332 please, I directed some points at you. If you don't want to dig through it re quotes etc. I'll do it for you

Do you think he was correct in thinking warng was scum?

I didn't townread warng but I don't scumread ffery

...So it's a null read?

[Draynth]

Also draynths vote on TGL sucked
Surprise LQ isn't voting Draynth

Are you intentionally ignoring me?

[Draynth]

So I'm your strongest scumread?

See 332 please, I directed some points at you. If you don't want to dig through it re quotes etc. I'll do it for you

Do you think he was correct in thinking warng was scum?

I didn't townread warng but I don't scumread ffery

...So it's a null read?

[Draynth]

I can't answer the questions in 332

...?

[Draynth]

I'm not entirely sure to be honest.
On the one hand, I somewhat townread his kind of nonchalant attitude, but on the other I strongly dislike a few of his posts

Jesus LQ I TR you but don't act scummy

Like, wtf is this

Actually a wagon on me may help with reads honestly

Except I don't really see scum saying this

I can't answer the questions in 332

...?

I don't have the answers to them

Why not?

Because I don't?

Like he asked why my read on Voctus/LQ switched

I forgot why I started to scum read Voctus

Also seems weird that he would 'forget' why he was scumreading someone but I guess it was a while ago

This is going slow would you guys be willing to wagon BubbleCube

I dunno what this makes me think, on the one hand it could be town trying to get the game moving again, but that doesn't make sense since bubble isn't really here.
Feels like it could be scum trying to push for a potential mislynch

I think I'm biased towards townreading people who post a lot and appear active, and scumread people who are lurking / not providing much content (Ironic, I know) so I'm trying to be more aware of that when forming reads on people

[Draynth]

@fferyllt
You're right, I've been pretty busy and haven't been giving this game the attention it deserves. I'll do my best to read the past few pages and come up with some actual content

[Draynth]

He's the kind of player I tend to give a pass for good or ill His play is chaotic, reactive (not so much reactive to pushes or FoSes, though there is some of that) but reactive to every breeze wafting through the game when he's around. It can benefit scum to be that way sometimes, but in most player lists that kind of play gathers negative attention and makes it difficult to push an agenda.

Fair enough, I've never played with Wheme before so I dunno if this is normal for him or not.

Prodge
Too tired to come up with a coherent post right now, I'll post some time tomorrow after I get some sleep right now. (sorry)

Just noting this

This game is somewhere in between those two in terms of tone and reaction.

So what conclusion do you draw from that (If any)?

I do tend to be snarky.

So why Bubblecube?

The are rubbing me all kinds of wrong. I should prolly go back and look. I think there was someone who expressed that bubble doesn't look so good and I completely agreed with that.

Anything in particular standing out?

[Draynth]

I had a very strong gut feeling that he wasn't scum (quality reasoning I know) but also because I didn't think scum would go out of their way and draw attention to themselves that way.

In what way? The big readlist posting style?

I'm not going to deny that I'm kinda reluctant to give scumreads, but that's because I don't like being aggressive/being wrong in my accusations. Also not gonna deny I have sheep mentality and would be more partial to a read if someone else has the same one as it validates my own. Hopefully I'll be more active from now on but my main problem previously was forgetting about the thread through all my other time burners. For now, I'll read a little more as just now I just did a quick scan.

As an aside from this game, don't be afraid about being wrong when giving reads; Be honest. As town, you should try to make your thought processes as clear as possible, and if you're reserved with your reads it can often come across as you hiding something. Ultimately you only improve by trying (And most likely being wrong at first)!

But, if you really don't want to give scumreads right now, who do you think is town? Why do you think that?

[Draynth]

Whemestar isn't giving me a great feeling, I'd be willing to start a wagon on him, even if this contrasts with my previous read on Geralt.

Does anything specifically stand out in Wheme's posting?

Honestly I think 1 is most likely in this case. Warng wasn't a super experienced player, and newbies (speaking from the perspective of one) often feel like it's a good reason to vote if everyone else does. At the time, after TGL's flip, I didn't have a great read on Warng but after reading over more posts, it does seem like he was kind of a sheeping town. Don't have too much else to say for this, personally I don't think TGL's wagon actually reveals a lot, but then again

I've never liked basing reads off of things like wagons and votes.

@Bolded
Why not?

[Draynth]

So what conclusion do you draw from that (If any)?

Did you read my 468?

Sorry, missed that somehow

[Draynth]

By draw attention I mean him scooping up a scumread from my v/la. I'd personally expect scum to have a kind of passive, not draw attention playstyle but I guess it could go both ways. When I look back at it, it could be taken as an opportunistic vote but maybe I'm just skewed by my read on Whemestar right now.

As I think I said in an earlier post, my reads have been kind of flipped with the replacements. Lickety's recent posts have been less towny for me than before, but as I said before, Voctus was a really strong townread and I'm not sure if I'd be able to flip my read just like that.

Whemestar isn't giving me a great feeling, I'd be willing to start a wagon on him, even if this contrasts with my previous read on Geralt.

Wheme's posting is really vague, doesn't give explanations for reads, really short posts. Could be lazy town or scum posting and I cant make up my mind.

With things like wagons and votes, I feel like it's too easy to wifom, and I also always found them difficult to read and not necessarily alignment telling.

I like #484 and #485 a lot though, the tone is really pleasant to me. I'll hold off my vote for now.

So, bubble mentions that Whemestar isn't giving her a great feeling and the would be willing to start a wagon on him. The very next post though she says that she can't make up her mind between lazy town or scum.
Then at the end of the post she says that she likes the tone of 484 and 485 so she doesn't want to vote him yet.

The above two posts feel very like scum trying to subtly pressure Wheme and then going back on that without being too obvious about it.

Not to mention the fact that bubble said she was reluctant to give out scumreads, and then the very next post she mentioned two people she was slightly scumreading (Despite me asking her if she had any townreads instead), but I dunno how AI that is.

With such little time remaining I don't really see any other viable lynch choices (A day and a half left when posting)

VOTE: Bubblecube

That is L-1. Do not hammer without first declaring intent to do so.

[Draynth]

VOTE: Unvote
Reading now

[Draynth]

I want to lynch Wheme since out of {Wheme, Ciara, LQ, Ffer} he's the scummiest to me, but with ~14 hours remaining it seems unlikely that we'd be able to form a wagon in time

[Draynth]

Spoilered to avoid a massive wall taking up half the page

Spoiler: Whemescum

Nooooooo Ffery replaced in to a scum slot :/

Nope. Sorry to disappoint!

More thoughts on the game?

Voctus is your partner prob

Gotta love the reasoning that Wheme gives

Charles looked like he had no idea what to do and flailed a lot. Resulted in him trying to troll and mess around

So he admits that Charles was just flailing as opposed to being scummy, yet also says in another post that he was scumreading the slot based on charles's posting?

Actually I could vote GoR

More solid reasoning

Eh voctus/ LQ town

We wouldn't have the issue of "I forgot why I was scumreading Voctus" if wheme gave reasoning for his thoughts... ever

Do you think he was correct in thinking warng was scum?

I didn't townread warng but I don't scumread ffery

Really don't like this post, seems like he's specifically avoiding saying that he scumread warng and townreads ffer.

LQ vote Ciara with me

Good job LQ

Is this buddying or am I reaching here

I can't answer the questions in 332

Also I guess it's a null read. But the question was if Warng was scum, and I thought Warng acted scummy

Then say it's a null read, don't try to present your waffle as content

Jesus LQ I TR you but don't act scummy

Still strongly dislike this post

I think Ffery is town but not sure because I didn't townread Warng

More inconsistency between Scumreading and Not Townreading

Right now, presuming that Bubblecube is telling the truth, I am sure that Pyra, bubble, myself and ffery are town.

That leaves LQ, Draynth and Wheme. One is town, two are scum.

I'm going to sleep on that thought, and I'll definitely be back before deadline.

This post is bad and makes me sure of Draynth/Ciara scumteam

Because....

Pyra rethink that please

?

VOTE: Whemestar
Gotta get this wagon going somehow

[Draynth]

Go check any of my town games and explain how I'm playing any differently here

The fact that you're aware of this suggests you could easily be manipulating your meta, so no thanks

[Draynth]

Sorry I'll post soon, been v busy

[Draynth]

alright reading now

[Draynth]

VOTE: Ciara24
I'm happy with this

[Draynth]

gg

[Draynth]

I'll hold my thoughts off until Bins reveals the flip

[Draynth]

There we go

Thanks for modding Bins

[Draynth]

The only reason I NK'd Huntress n1 was because I thought she would pick up on the fact that I diverted the charles/warng wagon onto TGL right as it got traction, I had a slight feeling that she could be a PR but having played with her in another game since (it's also over) I think that's just her playstyle.

[Draynth]

That being said I think the win was a bit soft in the end, I was fully expecting to have to try and fight my way out of a corner today.

Oh well, it happens. GG everyone

[Draynth]

Also, I'm happy to release the mafia PT

@Bins

Sorry for the spam ^^

[Draynth]

Also, @ffer I completely forgot we had an actual word to signal the hammer by the way, I was sitting here refreshing the thread every 30s or so waiting for you to post since I thought that was the signal to vote haha

[Draynth]

I played so badly in this game, not a great start for my return to the site at all

Ffery, well played. I shouldn't have been so quick to change my view on your slot when you replaced in.
Draynth, I don't know why I didn't think you were scummy on day 2. Oh well. Live and learn I guess!

Yeah, I think you would have had a harder battle but to be honest I think LQ kinda gave up at the end of Day 3.

I dunno, I'm surprised I wasn't being deathtunelled by someone to be honest, it helps that Wheme was flat out refusing to explain stuff (Not bashing you, just saying it helped me escape a lynch here) and LQ was very certain he was scum.

Honestly when the cop claim + pyra confirmed town thing happened I thought I was getting lynched 100% since those 2 were the people I wanted to try mislynch today

[Draynth]

I'm also surprised that Draynth wasn't forced into a corner today. Most people [even in the dead pt] had correctly pinned him as scum. He probably would have had to claim Doctor + claim he was roleblocked, but that still wouldn't have got him through the day. That's how I envisioned it, at least.

This is pretty much what I was planning to do at the start of the day if LQ hadn't been vocally scumreading Ciara

[Draynth]

Well, I was ACTUALLY hoping to blindly claim something day 3 if the PR hadn't been outed but we managed to wagon the actual PR which was unfortunate from my perspective

Although we got to nk them day 2 so I guess it worked out

[Draynth]

VOTE: Whemestar
Gotta get this wagon going somehow

Genuinely surprised this worked

[Draynth]

I don't think I've ever actually managed to start the wagon of both mislynches as scum before, I think I did it once as town though...

[Draynth]

Anything glaringly obvious in my scumgame that anyone has noticed in hindsight?

I feel like I kind of had to be more proactive than I would have liked this game, particularly day 1 to avoid the charles / warng slot being lynched since that was a bit of a mess so I guess that was new

[Draynth]

Your being proactive looked good on day !! Some of your stances looked opportunistic though, which I think is why Huntress was suspicious of you. On day 2 you became more reactive, but you were still pretty effective in terms of pushing lynches. Choosing an experienced player to push a little on day 1 would have resulted in more interaction and apparent sorting, which tends to look town, especially if the push has enough basis to look sensible.

There are a lot of coulda-woulda-shouldas that could have changed the game for better or worse for scum. If my slot had been lynched on day 2 (which looked like the most likely scenario before I replaced in) you could have positioned yourself well as part of that. But, there was also a pretty good chance that warng's slot would go to someone who could help you a lot as scum (probably better help than I was able to give because I'm not that great a scum player!)

Sorry I know that it looked good on day 1, I guess I figured that someone would pick up on the fact that I was the one who started the wagon though (which is why I killed huntress)

Good point about pushing an experiences player day 1, I chose TGL since I figured he was the easiest target to mislynch but I probably should have been actively pushing more people at the same time to avoid it being as obvious that it was a misdirect.

Thanks for the advice