Newbie 1837 [Game Over]

[UC Voyager]

FIRST

[UC Voyager]

VOTE: Acid
you do very good as scum. you must go

[UC Voyager]

it depends. Wishes was strange because it ignored most logic.

Generally, when someone votes town, they get quickhammered, but in wishes, the scum team was afraid of me unvoting.
tbh, it depends on the game. : p

[UC Voyager]

pagetop?

[UC Voyager]

(:

[UC Voyager]

OK, so I think we should try to leave RVS. it is honestly not useful. And the sooner we start scum hunting, the better

[UC Voyager]

UNVOTE:

[UC Voyager]

What's up UC?

Do you think that last game (wishes) was an abnormal situation or do these newbie games tend to be rather low participation? Once I had quit the last game I felt like there was not much fire left in the town. Can we expect that rather than people not vote and not show up at deadline, that there will be an attempt to actually use the lynch this time?

So the turbohammer day 1 was not unusual? That's unfortunate. I think it's important to toss your vote out there to demonstrate you mean what you say.

I am liking this. This is not necessarily going to help progress the game, but It is more useful than standard RVS.

hi
VOTE: garaputo

no flavor is :'(
UNVOTE: VOTE: micc

UNVOTE:
VOTE: velox
this slot is obvscum

i think im rvs happy :3

uhhhhh. This is unless. I know it is hard to blame you because this is RVS, but it would be better if you could try to get us

OUT

of RVS!

kind of ironic that the ic got quicklynched on page 8 in that game, clearly he failed at teaching the basics of mafia one of which is that you don't quicklynch people on page 8

pedit lmao how was i manipulative?

thank you for teaching us the very obv lesson of not quickhammering on page 8.

i was trying to swat a fly earlier with my midi skirt while i was sitting on the toilet but it didn't quite work

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. ok. those IC teaching skills. Teaching us to not try to swat a fly while wearing a skirt on the toilet. Totally useless to me because im a guy and i don't where skirts, but it is more usfull when used in the real world. most ICs teach about mafia which you cant use in the real world!

[UC Voyager]

So if you're a newbie and you're not really sure what to post at the start of the game then feel free to just say "Hi I'm here I don't know what to post" or ask a random question about something or do really whatever you feel like (see my posts). On ms we start games with RVS and shoot the shit to get people involved in the game and generating content. It's pretty important to be around as an active presence in the game in whatever capacity you can. Being so active that you choke the thread isn't super helpful but it's still better than not being around at all.

Probably a good idea to keep a tab with the game thread open in your browser so that you have it there as a constant reminder; we'd like you to stick around on the site (if you're a nice person, and I'm sure you are!) so step one is to make it through this game and not forget that it exists.

Also @garaputo am curious what your experience with forum mafia is outside mafiascum?

pedit oh hi UC you're welcome I have all the teachings tips have you seen the new Star Trek I hope you don't like it?

I watch the comedy one!
I am not the biggest fan of the new serious sires, but i love the comedy

[UC Voyager]

Hi I am t-totally not mafia or anything haha see ya

...
This makes me want to think Brigadoon is scum. Because I could see scum making a joke like this

[UC Voyager]

oh. i generally don't think about it

[UC Voyager]

hi velox

the rvs ship has hardly sailed because ucv forgot the part of moving out of rvs where you have to actually find reasons to alignment read people

VOTE: velox <3

hmmmmm. i wonder why reasons are not forming

well i mean we're obviously scum because we're prolonging rvs am i right

not necasarily, but you are not helping at all

[UC Voyager]

hi
im a second timer on this site my first game was here clean scum sweep

im from aops *suddenly a loser*

hmmmm. my games are

Town
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73542 JailKeeper, Lost, Killed night one
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73171 VT, Lost, Lynched day two
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73411 VT, Won, Lynched day one
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73890 VT, lost, Lynched day two
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73520 JailKeeper, lost, Killed night four
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73616 Doctor, lost, endgame
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73654 VT, won, endgame
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73370 VT, lost, endgame
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73677 VT, lost, endgame
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73567 VT, won, lynched day one (most recent. i wasn't really trying though. : p)

Scum
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=73733 GodFather, Won, Endgame
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73448 Mafia Goon, won, Endgame

[UC Voyager]

Im getting a town read on Acid.
I am Null on Velox
I got a town read from nancy and gorupto

[UC Voyager]

why

Because Acid is not showing many signs of scum, but isn't really trying to get us out of RVS. so it is more of a town lean

you have not contributed and you have extended RVS, but i don't feel the scum

Nancy is trying to teach and help us avoid doing things that help scum. I know they are an IC, but it seems townie.
Gorup isn't trying to extend RVS, and is also asking about good and bad decisions as town. this looks like town trying to do better as town



Do you have any reads?

[UC Voyager]

let's iso acid

Spoiler:

ucv is talking about lylo not day 1

the day 1 Lynch was stupid and awful

hi velox

the rvs ship has hardly sailed because ucv forgot the part of moving out of rvs where you have to actually find reasons to alignment read people

VOTE: velox <3

yeeee

that's it
you tr ap who has 100% rvs posts even though you encourage leaving rvs rn
looks like blatant pocketing :/

yes, but I have seen acid's town play in RVS, so it isn't as significant.

[UC Voyager]

sheep - pocketing?

uc - why isn't trying to keep us in rvs itself a sign of scum, nancy is just "early game ic", gara yeah sure

another thing to consider is that im trying to get people to post. i personally hate RVS a ton! so i want to get out of it

[UC Voyager]

sheep - pocketing?

uc - why isn't trying to keep us in rvs itself a sign of scum, nancy is just "early game ic", gara yeah sure

another thing to consider is that im trying to get people to post. i personally hate RVS a ton! so i want to get out of it

ppl posting a lot doesnt get us out of rvs...

then what does?
if i would post useless crap, no it wouldn't, ut im posting reads, and im attempting to scum hunt

[UC Voyager]

here we are. page three. still trying to leave RVS.

[UC Voyager]

tbh you match hallmark examples of fake contrib ucv
im starting to read you in a tunnely way so ima take a break

death tunnel?
shit. whats next? will you want to policy lynch?

[UC Voyager]

you say you hate rvs
doesnt seem like you act like this in past town games :/

it is a new realization that leaving RVS early will help the town a ton. and it isn't hard to leave RVS. people actually have to give a shit and it is easy

[UC Voyager]

that's called over reaction if it's not a joke
is it?

im not over reacting

Death tunnel results in one of two things

1. Townie getting townie lynched
2. scum getting townie lynched

It is used a lot by scum. It is a naturally scummy move
Plus, you are all ready bringing up scummy ides.

[UC Voyager]

hmmmm. imagine if everyone tried getting information early on. it would be amazing!

[UC Voyager]

Velox
Really not attempting to push the game. just posting useless crap

SheepSaysMeep
saying he will death tunnel!?! Death tunneling rarely gets scum. see here for a game where the town death tunneled two townies.

He is all ready trying to guide a lynch. his reasoning is crap. starting a death tunnel is ad. hinting at starting a death tunnel ON PAGE THREE is worse

Acid
needs to post more

[UC Voyager]

How is he death tunnelling you exactly

he isnt lol. he just said he was tempted to. This is not a good joke if it is a joke. Death tunnel is a bad strat that only helps the scum team

[UC Voyager]

that's called over reaction if it's not a joke
is it?

im not over reacting

Death tunnel results in one of two things

1. Townie getting townie lynched
2. scum getting townie lynched

It is used a lot by scum. It is a naturally scummy move
Plus, you are all ready bringing up scummy ides.

I now need to understand how you have excluded the townie getting scum killed case.

because it

RARELY

happen. Though im starting to think i will be lynched early for trying to help the town out of RVS.

I guess i will be scum bait in this game for making a good move. lol

[UC Voyager]

<<< Shameless deathtunneler. I don't do it with the intention to 'deathtunnel' though. I just like to lynch my scumreads.

VOTE: UCV

I feel like he's trying too hard to appear useful and town. It doesn't seem natural.

I haven't really read that much into the last few pages, but Velox and Sheep both look town to me.

Maybe

Acid, but I would have liked him more if he voted UCV to go along with his comment in 41. The split in focus there bugs me.

I don't think anyone else has done anything I think could be alignment indicative.

I am Null on Velox

Also, what is the point of announcing a null read?

because they matter. what if someone asks, what is your reads on X. a simple null will avoid that question, so they might make reads

[UC Voyager]

<<< Shameless deathtunneler. I don't do it with the intention to 'deathtunnel' though. I just like to lynch my scumreads.

VOTE: UCV

I feel like he's trying too hard to appear useful and town. It doesn't seem natural.

I haven't really read that much into the last few pages, but Velox and Sheep both look town to me.

Maybe

Acid, but I would have liked him more if he voted UCV to go along with his comment in 41. The split in focus there bugs me.

I don't think anyone else has done anything I think could be alignment indicative.

I am Null on Velox

Also, what is the point of announcing a null read?

1. I am to townie that it isn't natural????????????????? explain how the fuck this works.

2. So you haven't read. are you just assuming you will read that way. i smell the confbiasing at work

3. so acid isn't as townie because he didn't vote me even though he showed no reason to?

4. how about Sheep talking about tunneling. how about the fact velox dragged RVS when RVS doesn't help town?

[UC Voyager]

because they matter. what if someone asks, what is your reads on X. a simple null will avoid that question, so they might make reads

Or...you can just not state it and people can assume you just don't have a read there. Stating you have a nullread on someone doesn't seem productive.

Why are you so worried about whether someone asks you for that read?

idk because people generally don't assume it. there is nothing wrong with the questions. they are just not necessary.

[UC Voyager]

Your read list came across as pretty unnatural, felt like you were townreading and buddying up to the experienced players.

because they will be the ones that won't notice that. why would i buddy this early any ways. You wait til later on when your scu and you buddy the conf town.

[UC Voyager]

tbh you match hallmark examples of fake contrib ucv
im starting to read you in a tunnely way so ima take a break

oh......i miss read this. ok. so you are reading me based on a miss read and claiming it to be "twisting words"

hmmm. want to say what i saw

tbh you match hallmark examples of fake contrib ucv
im starting to want to tunnel you.

this is what i thought i read.

that is obv not what he said

[UC Voyager]

1. I am to townie that it isn't natural????????????????? explain how the fuck this works.

I didn't say you were 'too townie.' I said you were trying too hard to seem 'helpful' or 'town'.

Let's leave RVS.

"Look at how helpful I'm being."

"We're still in RVS guys. It's page 3."

It's very showy. Like you're putting on a performance.

2. So you haven't read. are you just assuming you will read that way. i smell the confbiasing at work

I have read the pages. I just haven't picked apart every post or anything of that nature. I dunno why you'd read that any other way.

3. so acid isn't as townie because he didn't vote me even though he showed no reason to?

I think he stated a perfectly valid suspicion (townlean). Whether he wanted to vote on it or not is his choice. Yes, I'm going to judge him based on what he does and how he does it.

4. how about Sheep talking about tunneling. how about the fact velox dragged RVS when RVS doesn't help town?

You mean how he said he wanted to step back because he thought he was just 'tunneling' you, and then you twisted his words andtried to make a big deal out of it?

1. the post before this

2. I was just stating my intentions.






you know what. fuck it. im not allowed to fucking try to progress the game to win because the fucking scum!fucks will jump all over that and then everyone sheeps the idea

[UC Voyager]

"everyone should go do this thing" - ucv, while not doing that thing

also yes jokes like that are about 90% of my posts

why

sheep - pocketing?

uc - why isn't trying to keep us in rvs itself a sign of scum, nancy is just "early game ic", gara yeah sure

also yeah you're not leaving rvs you're just

encouraging low quality posts

such as this one

this is a low quality post

@UCV:

I don't see how these posts are encouraging RVS. Why do you?

[UC Voyager]

I don't think deathtunneling is a very pleasant way to play mafia and is probably worth avoiding for that reason alone.

UC I'm not entirely sure why you jumped to deathtunnel in response to say sheep saying they felt like they might be tunneling? There's a pretty significant difference between a tunnel and a deathtunnel and all I'm seeing in that post from sheep is him checking himself on his read. Do you think there's mafia motivation for what sheep is doing or are you just annoyed that he's not townreading you or something else?

no. i was annoyed with the death tunnel/tunnel idea because it is stupid. I now realize that he was saying somthing different..

Would also like it if you talked about your reasoning for why you think Brigdoon could be mafia because I don't find the reasoning you put forth convincing at all and I'm not sure I understand what you were getting at there.

HINT: my first post against him was only semi-serious

pedit yeah I can't keep up

I am not liking the way Brian is describing his case. I didn't twist words, i miss read. i did not say i was helpful, i was explaining why i was trying to get out of RVS, n such.

[UC Voyager]

So you're just going to ignore the white text since it doesn't fit your narrative?

the whit text is slightly contributing, but still. when half of a post is fluff, it does not encourage people to leave RVS

[UC Voyager]

i did not say i was helpful

sheep - pocketing?

uc - why isn't trying to keep us in rvs itself a sign of scum, nancy is just "early game ic", gara yeah sure

another thing to consider is that im trying to get people to post

. i personally hate RVS a ton! so i want to get out of it

I'm not going to nitpick over semantics, but what was your intention when you said the bolded above?

to try to explain why I was pushing to leave RVS.

[UC Voyager]

i did not say i was helpful

sheep - pocketing?

uc - why isn't trying to keep us in rvs itself a sign of scum, nancy is just "early game ic", gara yeah sure

another thing to consider is that im trying to get people to post

. i personally hate RVS a ton! so i want to get out of it

I'm not going to nitpick over semantics, but what was your intention when you said the bolded above?

to try to explain why I was pushing to leave RVS.

Isn't this backwards?

no.

I wan'ted to leave RVS> people were 'questioning' why i wanted to. and i explained

[UC Voyager]

VOTE: patrick2

townreads ucv, hasn't played with town!ucv afaik

@ucv is this assumption correct

im not sure what this even means tbh

[UC Voyager]

i have not. . .

[UC Voyager]

I'd like him to explain this more and it's funny when he gets mad

this is not a good

intentionally trying to get someone mad, so they arn't playing as good is not funny. it was a strategy i used in my newbie scum game, so that the town did not do as well.

This could just be a bad joke coming from a townie, so I will not vote this, but i am definitely getting a scum lean from the Velox slot.

[UC Voyager]

mostly ucvs game is filled with cringeworthy generically wolfy things, and Patrick seems noobish enough that simultaneously having a bunch of trs already and one of them being ucv seems weird, especially if he hasn't played with ucv

I have been town read by people i have never played with before. lol

[UC Voyager]

i mean the "it's funny when he gets mad" is clearly a bs reason to vote someone
idk if it was serious

I agree. It is not enough.

You can say that is scummy, and put a scum lean on the slot, but voting is a little overboard.

[UC Voyager]

ucv it's only not funny because you're scum

. . .It is a little early to be saying in scum with that much confidence. Tbh

[UC Voyager]

I am town reading sheep

This isn't a 180. I miss read earlier and that is where my scum read cane from

He is definitely scum hunting. Making a lot of posts that I would agree with.

I do not know how to think of gara. Their push on velox seems bad and I think they could have done better. If anything, it is a scum lean.

I literally cannot read velox right now. They seems scummy, but I can see town also.

Nancy is also hard to read because most of their posts are IC

[UC Voyager]

your case was that [post]140[/vote] was a bad post. other than that, there isn enough to make him more than a scum lean

[UC Voyager]

your case was that 140[/vote] was a bad post. other than that, there isn enough to make him more than a scum lean

lol failedddd

[post]140

[UC Voyager]

your case was that 140 was a bad post. other than that, there isn enough to make him more than a scum lean

lol failedddd

140

failed again

[UC Voyager]

54
test

[UC Voyager]

54
test

hit preveiw, and remove the -#------- .....in this one remove the =#9781463

[UC Voyager]

patrick2, uc voyager, brianskies and sheepsaysmeep all read town

Hey patrick2. Would you be able to provide some reasoning for whichever of those reads you feel most strongly about? How confident are you in each of those reads roughly speaking?

I have very strong meta on patrick2 and this is definitely his town game. UC Voyager is all over the place, scattered, paranoid, questioning everything. I like that. I think Brian shows good scumhunting and depth in his reads and tbh the read on sheep is a gut one.

patrick2 - like 95% confident

uc voyager - 80%
brian - like 62%
sheep - 60%

Why only 95%. Did your PM have messy hand writing?

I am 100% I'm town.

[UC Voyager]

velox still has yet to say smth about someone that's not ucv and i dont like it
nancy what are your reads?
it's hard to meta match ucv since ive played one game with ucv where the entire game he thought he was conftown or smth :/

no. i should have been conf town, but yall were kind of dumb

[UC Voyager]

velox still has yet to say smth about someone that's not ucv and i dont like it
nancy what are your reads?
it's hard to meta match ucv since ive played one game with ucv where the entire game he thought he was conftown or smth :/

no. i should have been conf town, but yall were kind of dumb

you still dont understand the setup :/

you were not dumb. you were a great scum. I have found you don't lynch a claim. you wait and see how log that claim lasts. if i were going into day 5, claimed doctor day 2, yea. scum read me

[UC Voyager]

would very much like it if people were doing a little less calling each other scum and more asking for and sharing their thoughts on things

But it's like, they be wanting to snatch all our people up and you want us to be civil? Idk, I feel it should be more like



Also, for someone asking for everyone to be transparent and ask each other stuff, I don't think you've shared any of your opinions thus far.

damnit. now i need to watch that video. lol

[UC Voyager]

reads:
0/10 is scum 10/10 is town

sheepsaysmeep

- 0/10 obvscum

garaputo

- 4/10 tone scummy and i feel like he's overdefensive; his attack on nancy wasnt good

Velox

- 2.5/10 he has nothing to say about anyone except ucv; i really dont like that plus he seemed to wagon onto ucv opportunistically although someone might have said that earlier

patrick2

- 5/10 he's null to inactivity although the place where he says he's 9.5/10 town from meta is rlly scummy

Brigadoon

- 6/10 through a quick iso i see some game solvign motivation from this slot

UC Voyager

- 3/10 his trying to get us out of rvs early feels like trying to get towncred; attacks are rlly weak and bad

Brian Skies

- 6.5/10 whenever he has thoughts i usually agree with them or understand where theyre coming from especially 217, and gut

acidphoenix

- 5/10 null bc hasnt been on since rvs

nancy

- 5.5/10:most posts are ic posts; barely any actual reads coming from this slot altho the ones that i do see make sense

These reads make no since.

So velox is scum for only targeting me, but in obv scum for trying to get of RVS early?
Gara is also scum wvwn though he has spoken against my arguments and voted velox?

[UC Voyager]

Current thoughts
I don't like Sheepsaysmeep's reads. They do not sync together very well. they seem like they are bent

Acid Phoenix is probably town, and this mainly just gut feeling.

Brigadoon is still hard to read. His posts seem to not be very alignment indicative

Nancy is putting a huge effort into the game. I like this, but what i don't like is how she is mostly trying to explain other people's post and not making her own statements. I know she is an IC, but she can still make her own reads. I am still very unclear on what her current mindset is

Velox seems more like a joking town and not a scum. Maybe im taking my gut read to far, but still. I don't see the scum motive behind his posts

BrianSkies has not posted enough for me to read

I did not like Gara's push on Velox. it seemed very bad. They were only using one post to go off of at the time.

Patrik is another slot im still trying to read

[UC Voyager]

prodge (if i need one)
I will catch up later today, or possibly now depending

[UC Voyager]

@garaputo

the explanation for your mindset read on Velox makes sense but I think you've failed to explain how that behavior comes from mafia and doesn't come from town; I've personally seen a ton of town players provoke people for their own amusement and I think if you're reading alignment into it there has to be more than what you've given here. Couple other things still giving me pause there:

a) the strength of your read in relation to the amount of content from that slot is in my opinion exceptional and if you don't think it's exceptional could you lay out why for me? If that involves citing meta from mtgs where you've gotten hard reads from very little content as town that's acceptable but also think you should be able to argue in clear terms without that why you feel a hard scumread from ~2-3 posts here isn't exceptional; e.g., talking to Regfan yesterday he highlighted for me why he felt a particular post was scummy and how he got a strong scumread from it, think that was pretty exceptional but the depth of his explanation matched the read; not looking for lots of words from you, just something that helps me see that the behavior you're seeing strongly comes from mafia and not town; I think your desire to emphasize your vote on Velox lines up well with your earlier stated preference for using your vote to sign that you're serious but what I'm not understanding here is why and what that means to you;

b) while I can believe you genuinely think that that behavior comes from mafia based on your explanation, you're saying in the next paragraph down that you think it's anti-town behavior, which is it and where's the mix-up there coming from? Very aware that Velox's behavior is anti-town and that's really where my confusion is coming from since I don't think that anti-town behavior alone merits a strong scumread.


My question, "Do you think that applies to anyone else as well?", is referring to anyone else in this game; if you're not sensing that I'm trying to push any specific outcome is there anyone else here who also isn't trying to do that? Basically a leading question because I'm wondering why you're townreading me for this and not other players and the followup for this that I was going to ask when you responded but I'll do it now was why that alone is enough of a reason to give me a townread this early. Also not seeing you questioning the basis for that read at all even after I've told you that if I were mafia I very probably would not be letting slip any agenda which is what you're townreading me for so why are you not concerned that you're being pocketed here?

Cute kitten for levity:


The other things I was looking at that I felt were mildly scummy were your response to Brigadoon's readslist mentioning that you'd pointed out two flaws not one in UC's argumentation; think that's scummy because you don't seem interested in understanding her there nor in challenging any of her positions which I think you would be more inclined to do if you were trying to sort her alignment; think this also shows in your earlier 92 to UC where you've responded with a passive take on his post that doesn't really comment in any substantive way and doesn't display any interest in what's going on between UC and sheep wrt the tunnel and people scumreading UC for that. Not really understanding the tack you're taking in your follow-up to that in 134 or why you think that line of questioning will help you sort UC's alignment.

And finally I think the way that you play both sides of the argument in 143/145 without seeming invested in either in any way that makes me feel like you're really interested in digging into what they're thinking about the game to get a read on them is at least a little bit more likely to come from mafia than town here. None of these are strong points but they're definitely things I'm noticing and keeping in mind as I continue to try to assess my read on you.

I've reread this post (left it fully intact above for context) The section starting "The other things that I was looking at that I felt were mildly scummy" still seems to be a list of things that are in no way scummy. They seem focused on the presumptive opinion that all my posts must be trying to determine if someone is scum, and that clarifying facts and logic are not helpful things. I don't accept this as a valid thought process.

OK.
I do not like this post at all.

The issue is I do not see the town motivation for it. I can see the scum motivation for it.

I would expect a townie to not defend like this. It does not help the game at all. I would expect a townie to be doing more scum hunting then light defending.

Here. I could see the scum motivation
Here, you dismiss the points saying "they are not scummy at all". Then you try to say why they are townie. The scum motivation is that scum want people to see them as town. You are trying to explain why you are town.

[UC Voyager]

These walls are so hard to try to read and think through while mobile

[UC Voyager]

One sec. Stuff looks weird because I'm mobile. I will make a post later. When I'm on my PC. So I don't miss read and/or misinterpret stuff

[UC Voyager]

Eh, I shouldn't say zero reasoning, it's the basis for that reasoning that I'm missing.

pedit if you care about the game being solved you should be working with other people, especially your townreads; saying you refuse to work with me is ??? and you can say you don't care but if I mislynch you then both of us are going to care very much. Like, I ask you questions and you basically say "I don't have to answer that if I don't want to you're doing it wrong". Not helpful to me at all doesn't do anything to convince me you're town.

You seem to focused on Gara. Telling him what he should and should not do, but thinking about it. You are honestly preventing Gara from doing anything besides answering your questions and responding to you. I do not see the scum hunt behind your posts. You keep telling people what to do, but you are not doing it.

[UC Voyager]

Eh, I shouldn't say zero reasoning, it's the basis for that reasoning that I'm missing.

pedit if you care about the game being solved you should be working with other people, especially your townreads; saying you refuse to work with me is ??? and you can say you don't care but if I mislynch you then both of us are going to care very much. Like, I ask you questions and you basically say "I don't have to answer that if I don't want to you're doing it wrong". Not helpful to me at all doesn't do anything to convince me you're town.

You know you've been doing a *very* effective job of taking the time I would be spending doing other useful things and putting them into reassuring you that what I actually believe is what I actually believe.

You've seemed really happy to be on one side of the questions and not really willing to answer my questions going back.

How about this why don't *you* go do all these wonderful things and show me how it's done. I'd like to watch a movie and not come back to the same argument rehashed another time.

This is townie in its pure form

[UC Voyager]

garaputo/Brigadoon what are your thoughts on UC? Find it very difficult to believe the progression from 238 ->297 -> 314/316 and think the way that he approached the exchange between garaputo and me to be very much what I would expect from mafia not knowing which side to take and wanting to benefit from both / incite argument with no real purpose; also don't find a few of his other reads very understandable and am somewhat less willing to write it off as playstyle after the above.

Why would you think this?

I mean
You say stuff with no motive behind it. You are an experienced player. You know how to hide motivation.

What I don't understand is you have not been trying to read me for most of this game. Now that I'm no longer town reading you, you now try to push me a little.

Also, your going to ask other people? Are you hoping they will back you up, so you can hold a TR?

[UC Voyager]

UC when we haven't had everyone in the game post yet I think it's a pretty good idea to let things happen on their own while people get a feel for the game rather than try to speed everyone out of RVS in a hurry; we're only on page two here with 13 days 20 hours left so we're not hugely pressed for time and if there are things you feel like commenting on you should be able to continue doing that without forcing others to follow your lead. If you have a read you feel like pursuing early then by all means go for it, I'm sure that will help towards generating content for the rest of the game to read into.

Sidenote with 2 votes on them Velox is at L-3, meaning 3 more votes would result in their lynch today. Looks like most of the game knows this at this point but it's pretty important to be careful when you're voting someone who is L-2. If you're getting that close to lynching someone you're going to want to make sure the reasoning for your scumread on the slot is pretty solid and that everyone on the wagon knows what everyone else's reasoning is for their vote and is confident that wagon is on scum because we only have 3 mislynches to lynch scum and it gets increasingly difficult to do so the less town are alive in proportion to mafia. If you're putting a vote on someone that will take them to L-1 (1 vote before they're lynched, aka hammer) then you should always put a reminder notice in your post that the wagon is at L-1 so that no one accidentally hammers. On top of that if you're thinking of hammering someone, always give a bunch of notice beforehand that you're thinking about hammering so that the person has a chance to roleclaim and everyone has time to discuss whether or not they think it's a good hammer or not and give final thoughts, etc.

pedit I'm living in the past

Here is you saying you will not read for a while

patrick2, uc voyager, brianskies and sheepsaysmeep all read town

Hey patrick2. Would you be able to provide some reasoning for whichever of those reads you feel most strongly about? How confident are you in each of those reads roughly speaking?

I have a bit of downtime before I head to bed to go over the quicklynch from the Wishes game. In the spoiler are the votes where the quicklynch happened over the course of ~6 hours.

Spoiler:

So I'm going to be really lazy here and just jot down a couple of my thoughts.

lilangel I think is a good candidate for Lycan's scumbud, given that Lycan is scum (which I think he is). While I realise this is pretty poor form - looking for scumbuds without a flip - I just can't shake the feeling that the defense that lilangel jumped to was -so out of place- while Lycan was giving reasons for voting which seemed to be unsubstantiated - basically very poor reasons which don't make sense.

@smile - I don't think "admitting" that something is a defense of someone else's position is something that scum don't do. In my own experience as scum, making small concessions to progress a narrative (or to get oneself out of trouble by saying "well of COURSE I said that, what I meant was THIS", ahppens all the time. Particularly with regard to lilangel's dialogue there, it admitted it was saying I was being "too careful". Now when you say someone is "too [insert x here]" in the context of a mafia game, you are certainly saying that the person bears suspicion. No amount of backtracking changes that.

Lycan - you ignored my last post directed at you.

I'm enjoying garupto's entrance (perhaps there's some bias there) but the manner and effort coming into the game and annotating posts is noted. Likewise gioni's pressure.

I'm not thinking of voting out of lilangel / Lycan today. Considering there's another vote on Lycan, I'm moving there.

Open to questions etc.

UNVOTE: lilangel1
VOTE: Lycanfire

yeah heck it i'd be ok with this i still don't trust talah but lycan seems even worse sure

VOTE: lycanfire

VOTE: lycanfire
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Broadcast yor L-1 votes please.

UNVOTE: acicphoenix

VOTE: lycanfire

So I'm guessing that's a Lycan hammer.

Last words?

Vote Count 1.10

It’s not the destination, it’s the endless exhausting journey.

Lycanfire (5): garaputo, talah, Velox, lilangel1, ShafferMoon

acidphoenix (1)

: Lycanfire

Geoni (1)

: acidphoenix

ShafferMoon (1)

: smilefires

Not Voting

: Geoni

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-10-03 07:18:54)

Lycanfire,

Cop

, Lynched Day 1

Night 1 begins now and will last for 72 hours, or (expired on 2017-10-03 07:05:10).

Scum are Geoni and acidphoenix, meaning ShafferMoon's hammer post came from town (funnily enough, he unvoted mafia to hammer the cop). Shaffer's reasoning for the hammer was:

I hammered because I felt like we needed to get somewhere, sorry for the impatience. Ugh

Which is very, very terrible reasoning for any lynch. Impatience is never a reason to hammer someone and unfortunately ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ isn't ever a reason to lynch someone either. Unless you enjoy gamethrowing, pissing the rest of town off and making yourself lynchbait I'd very strongly encourage you to be a little more circumspect with your lynch votes than the newbies in that game were and a ton more open with your thoughts. Can't really overemphasize the latter point in particular.

Talking about your reasoning and thoughts on reads is how games get solved, so pretty much the more of it the better. If you're town in most cases there's not enough of a downside in being transparent and sharing just about everything you have on your mind with the rest of town to not do it. This is something that I think players on ms have a pretty difficult time with and is a big part of why town meta here is so weak; read through any non-newbie game here and you're almost always going to see a lot of town fighting each other, throwing votes around and arguing about who they want to lynch but not doing a lot of talking about their thoughts and reasoning and coming together around that to break down which thoughts and lines of reasoning are good and which don't really hold up, which I think is a much more useful way of doing things. Mafia's a game of conversation so where that doesn't happen games don't get solved and people get quicklynched, neither of which are enjoyable.

I should've come back to this game sooner; would very much like it if people were doing a little less calling each other scum and more asking for and sharing their thoughts on things.

@Velox

putting UC to L-2 the way you did there isn't at all acceptable with the lack of reasoning from you so if you could talk about why you think that UC is mafia that would be pretty helpful. Haven't seen much of anything from you in the way of reads or thoughts about the game so if you're able to please work on changing that even if all that ends up being is talking about how you're reading UC's posts in the way that you are and why.

What made you change your mind on UC? Could you talk a little more about your UC read in a way that doesn't involve meta? If you think there's a chance he's town here are you able to go through his ISO and see where you might have misread him earlier and how that happened? Generally just needing something from you in the way of thoughts that I can get an alignment read off since flipping your read and saying you have a sudden realization about his town meta isn't very helpful to me in that regard.

@Brigadoon

re your 158, where did you go over the readslist before? I'm not seeing it in your ISO. I understand that it's early and more posting is going to allow reads to form but if you're town here you should be poking at things and presenting reasoning for why you're reading things in the ways that you are; don't think it's going to be helpful if you just wait for everyone else to produce content without contributing to it and I think a pretty good way to contribute would be to talk to UC about why you think there was mafia motivation in his posts and hear what he has to say about that. Imagine you're spending time with a friend; if neither of you speak to each other nothing's going to happen and you're both going to grow bored very quickly but if you start sharing what's been on your mind then you're going to have a much more productive and fulfilling time together.

Game has to start somewhere so saying it's too early to have anything concrete isn't helpful. Let's imagine if you don't get UC's alignment solved before the end of the dayphase then you die; how are you going to go about solving for that and where do you start? Passing over his early content that you find suspicious isn't going to get you anywhere and I'm not understanding why you're not concerned about your read on his slot when you've already identified a few things that could go either way depending on how you end up reading his motivation. If you're town your life depends on you solving the game and if you're mafia your life depends on you appearing town so either way talking to people about their content is going to benefit your wincon if you do it well.

Last bit is that you haven't answered the question about why UC misreading sheep's post is suspicious to you; why do you think it's more likely that scum!UC misreads that post and thinks that sheep wants to tunnel him? Can you think of an example where mafia have done that? Is there something that strikes you about the way that he did it in particular or is there something generic about misreading or misreading in that way that you think is scummy? Something else?

@garaputo

what makes you confident enough that Velox is scum to want to doublevote him? Run me through your reasoning there? Also would like to hear why you think I'm town at this point; if I told you that I've not lost a game as mafia would that affect your read at all and if so why?

@patrick2

would like it if you could talk more about why you think Velox is mafia here; not liking his push on UC and thinking it's opportunistic are fine reasons for a surface read but I definitely would be looking for more in-depth thoughts on that if you have a strong enough read to want to kill the slot. If you're not sure where to start, what about the push feels opportunistic and why do you think it comes from mafia? Going to need to hear some expanded thoughts on that rather just than saying that it's opportunistic if I'm going to believe that this is a genuine read from you.

Here is when you finally make reads. 200ish posts into the game.

I will also note you said in this post that you have tread the game me, velox, acid where in and Gara replaced out. Now you are fence-sitting and asking people to link this game

[UC Voyager]

garaputo/Brigadoon what are your thoughts on UC? Find it very difficult to believe the progression from 238 ->297 -> 314/316 and think the way that he approached the exchange between garaputo and me to be very much what I would expect from mafia not knowing which side to take and wanting to benefit from both / incite argument with no real purpose; also don't find a few of his other reads very understandable and am somewhat less willing to write it off as playstyle after the above.

Refusing to take an official stance unless it is my full play style

I watch UCV replace into my role as town in the game I was in last. I find his play consistent with his town play in that game so far.

Someone makes a response

I watch UCV replace into my role as town in the game I was in last. I find his play consistent with his town play in that game so far.

Link please? Have you seen him play mafia?

You don't hear what you were hoping for, so you as to same the thread.

[UC Voyager]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=73448
I was scum here

[UC Voyager]

right now, it would be hard to meta read me because im currently trying to revise and change my play style, so things like Wishes doesn't happen again

[UC Voyager]

I guess you are saying that you think his play @UCV I pass the baton. Perhaps your argument about this will go off better than the walls of text nancy and I posted past one another.

I do not understand what your asking

[UC Voyager]

right now, it would be hard to meta read me because im currently trying to revise and change my play style, so things like Wishes doesn't happen again

Things like town losses, you mean? Or something else?

so i can avoid being confbias and lynchBait a lot.
I mean
if i had to say, my best town game was The Hero We Deserve. I was a universal town read and hammered the final scum in the last day.

[UC Voyager]

right now, it would be hard to meta read me because im currently trying to revise and change my play style, so things like Wishes doesn't happen again

Things like town losses, you mean? Or something else?

so i can avoid being confbias and lynchBait a lot.
I mean
if i had to say, my best town game was The Hero We Deserve. I was a universal town read and hammered the final scum in the last day.

Thanks, will read.

If you feel like it you could talk about some specific ways in which you're trying to change your game? Like did you identify anything in particular that you think could be causing you be confirmation biased and such?

If you're having trouble with being lynch bait there are definitely ways you can go about solving that and a couple of the best I would say are to a) not just blurt out all of your thoughts as soon as they come to you into the thread but to take a little time to think about things, then present them clearly and in a way that other people can understand, and b) be transparent/complete in how you're getting to your reads and show people the full process from A->B that led you to think someone is or may be town/mafia.

This is another post where I do not see the town motivation

There is no scum hunting

sure this is just IC posting, but there is definitely some scum motivation. it is like 'look at me trying to give you help on town. PLEASE TELL ME YOUR ISSUES AND NOT SCUM HUNT PLEASE!'

[UC Voyager]

I do not like how Velox isn't posting currently with all this back and fourth

[UC Voyager]

I do not like how Velox isn't posting currently with all this back and fourth

It is probably some IRL stuff

[UC Voyager]

garaputo is town

i retract my townread on uc voyager

Why?

[UC Voyager]

patrick2, uc voyager, brianskies and sheepsaysmeep all read town

Hey patrick2. Would you be able to provide some reasoning for whichever of those reads you feel most strongly about? How confident are you in each of those reads roughly speaking?

I have very strong meta on patrick2 and this is definitely his town game. UC Voyager is all over the place, scattered, paranoid, questioning everything. I like that. I think Brian shows good scumhunting and depth in his reads and tbh the read on sheep is a gut one.

patrick2 - like 95% confident
uc voyager - 80%
brian - like 62%
sheep - 60%

I like this post. He is trying to find the town first. I find this to be a townie trying to find the other townies so he can work with them. He even explains his reasoning for some of the town reads. Then says how confidante he is, so he knows and other people can see the possibility of confbias

VOTE: Velox

this is scum

an explanation for this would be nice

i don't like his push on ucv, it seems opportunistic

What I like here is that he explains why he though velox was scum in a reasonable way. he shows some since of scum hunting as well.

garaputo is town

i retract my townread on uc voyager

These two could use some explaining, but it does look like he is trying to form reads and stuff

[UC Voyager]

Right now I'm thinking


{UCV, Gara, Patric} town
{Sheep} town lean
{Acid, velox, brig} null
{Nancy} scum
I have explained why I scum read Nancy. I see the scum motivation behind her posts.

[UC Voyager]

Nancy, why do you continue to ask Gara quesions ? As an IC, wouldn't you be more interested in the quesions they ask you? A lot of your quesions and statements your making to Gara do not help progress the game.

[UC Voyager]

ugh
having to read walls is bad
might not read the walls for a while

Walls are fun tho

Wow
Just wow


So someone says that the walls are hard to deal with. You in response say that they are fun and continue to post quote walls. I would expect a townie to try to explain the interactions. Not confuse the players more .

[UC Voyager]

nancy. could you answer my questions

[UC Voyager]

post reading

read:

{acid}
{sheep}
{patrick2}
{ucv, velox}
{brian skies, garaputo}
{nancy}
{brigadoon}

velox idk on; it looks exactly like his early 1824 play imo but i can't tell how much of that is nai tonal similarity and how much is actually alignment indicative

same with ucv somewhat except i have a vague idea of how his scumgame changes so he gets a provisional placement

a bunch of things look really good on brian and then i come to some random post and just go wtf(ex. 210(yes i'm aware it's a jokevote))

nancy @ 239 a. when did i point out a bunch of townreads as an sr reason for patrick2
b. how the hell was your reaction to that "yeah that's a good reason"

ok yeah sheep is just town

@gara i feel like i already said this but giving a bunch of early townreads is both a. super easy and b. super easy to step back on, because "lol i cleared half the game you can't expect me to not reevaluate"

especially when you can just.. hide your partner in there

ftr i'm just skimming over some posts (esp. nancywalls) because i'm tired and trying to get through this at 12:30 am so actually looking at those may change something

i really wish the person on the bottom of the list voting the person on the top of the list made me MORE confident (at least in the bottom anyway)

i shoudl probably just add velox to the list

You say that scum can make reads and hide their buddy in there, but you literally just made a bunch of reads that are very bizarre and you could easily hide your partner in there.

Why did you make this massive reads list where you make a case on Gara, who isn't your highest scum, but you don't make a case on your highest scum read?

I slightly agree with you about Sheep being townie, but why do you say it with that much confidence?

[UC Voyager]

Nancy, why do you continue to ask Gara quesions ? As an IC, wouldn't you be more interested in the quesions they ask you? A lot of your quesions and statements your making to Gara do not help progress the game.

please answer.

[UC Voyager]

Nancy, why do you continue to ask Gara quesions ? As an IC, wouldn't you be more interested in the quesions they ask you? A lot of your quesions and statements your making to Gara do not help progress the game.

I continue to ask questions because I continue to want to sort him. I'm very interested in what questions he has for me, what makes you think that asking questions prevents him from asking questions, since that's what you seem to be implying here?

What do you think progresses the game and why do my questions / statements to garaputo not fulfill that in your opinion?

in regards to your question, it is because your back and fourth with Gara didn't help us progress the game or scum hunt.
I understand why you would want to sort him. I actually can see the tow behind that, but why did you have to do it in such a way that it prevented him from doing much other scum hunting?

[UC Voyager]

UNVOTE: for the moment

[UC Voyager]

UNVOTE: for the moment

Were you voting me? Why the unvote?

I think I rushed a vote on you based off too little. your posts are starting to show more and more since of town hunting. So im thinking about town rreading you more and more

I understand why you would want to sort him. I actually can see the tow behind that, but why did you have to do it in such a way that it prevented him from doing much other scum hunting?

Don't believe that I did it in such a way as to prevent him from doing other scumhunting aside from being insistent about getting answers from him; go up and look at 382 and I think you have an answer to a very simple question from acidphoenix very much in the same way I think the questions I asked him could've been given a very simple answer. Don't think me refusing to answer acidphoenix and telling him why his line of questioning was flawed would be helpful of me at all, which I think is more or less what happened in my exchange with garaputo.

Pretty much seeing it as a playstyle clash since garaputo doesn't seem to think about the game in the same way as me at all. You're going to see this kind of thing pretty frequently in mafia games outside the newbie queue whenever two people talk to each other and have conflicting ideas about the same thing.

You might have not intended to, but you kind of did. responding to posts like that can be tie consuming and could burn someone out. I have found that one could find scum/town while making smaller posts

[UC Voyager]

patrick2, uc voyager, brianskies and sheepsaysmeep all read town

Hey patrick2. Would you be able to provide some reasoning for whichever of those reads you feel most strongly about? How confident are you in each of those reads roughly speaking?

I have very strong meta on patrick2 and this is definitely his town game. UC Voyager is all over the place, scattered, paranoid, questioning everything. I like that. I think Brian shows good scumhunting and depth in his reads and tbh the read on sheep is a gut one.

patrick2 - like 95% confident
uc voyager - 80%
brian - like 62%
sheep - 60%

I like this post. He is trying to find the town first. I find this to be a townie trying to find the other townies so he can work with them.

disagree with this
town goal is to find scum
i dont like the post a whole lot

the him being 95% part better be a joke

how does this affect your read on me?

[UC Voyager]

patrick2, uc voyager, brianskies and sheepsaysmeep all read town

Hey patrick2. Would you be able to provide some reasoning for whichever of those reads you feel most strongly about? How confident are you in each of those reads roughly speaking?

I have very strong meta on patrick2 and this is definitely his town game. UC Voyager is all over the place, scattered, paranoid, questioning everything. I like that. I think Brian shows good scumhunting and depth in his reads and tbh the read on sheep is a gut one.

patrick2 - like 95% confident
uc voyager - 80%
brian - like 62%
sheep - 60%

I like this post. He is trying to find the town first. I find this to be a townie trying to find the other townies so he can work with them.

disagree with this
town goal is to find scum
i dont like the post a whole lot

the him being 95% part better be a joke

how does this affect your read on me?

it's just disagreement, doesnt affect read

Ok, so what point were you making?

[UC Voyager]

plsssss don't post disagreement to valid play in a world where it doesn't change a read

Can you explain what you are trying to say here?

[UC Voyager]

patrick2, uc voyager, brianskies and sheepsaysmeep all read town

Hey patrick2. Would you be able to provide some reasoning for whichever of those reads you feel most strongly about? How confident are you in each of those reads roughly speaking?

I have very strong meta on patrick2 and this is definitely his town game. UC Voyager is all over the place, scattered, paranoid, questioning everything. I like that. I think Brian shows good scumhunting and depth in his reads and tbh the read on sheep is a gut one.

patrick2 - like 95% confident
uc voyager - 80%
brian - like 62%
sheep - 60%

I like this post. He is trying to find the town first. I find this to be a townie trying to find the other townies so he can work with them.

disagree with this
town goal is to find scum
i dont like the post a whole lot

the him being 95% part better be a joke

how does this affect your read on me?

it's just disagreement, doesnt affect read

Ok, so what point were you making?

i dont think it's a good reason to tr

So what would be a good reason to TR?

[UC Voyager]

youre asking me what type of stuff is towny
idk openly posting, scumhunting actively, ask the ic

no, i was asking you what would make one townie in your opinion

What do you find bad about the post exactly?

[UC Voyager]

gut dont like the "strong meta on patrick2 and this is definitely his town this game"
pre post 185 i dont see any depth in brian's reads at all

OK. Do you think that I should scum read him based off this post

[UC Voyager]

?
scumread whoever you want to scumread
opinions are different
i scumread him for it you choose what you want :/

im just trying to figure out your post and i think i have it

You are trying to make the other player look bad without scum hunting/town hunting. You are trying to start a mindset that he is scummy without trying to figure out his intentions. This does not look good. I still want t move on though.

[UC Voyager]

?
scumread whoever you want to scumread
opinions are different
i scumread him for it you choose what you want :/

im just trying to figure out your post and i think i have it

You are trying to make the other player look bad without scum hunting/town hunting. You are trying to start a mindset that he is scummy without trying to figure out his intentions. This does not look good. I still want t move on though.

i think he's scummy
? making him look scummy without scumhunting ?
we have different ideas about what scumhunting is

you are soley pointing out what is bad about his play. you are not trying to do anything that would help find a scum if you are wrong about the read

[UC Voyager]

im definitely starting to see the town in nancy's posts.

I have been thinking that gara is town for a while, so i will stick with that.

I have this scum read on sheepsaysmeep. Im seeing a slight scum motivation behind their posts

[UC Voyager]

Going to dump a bunch of thoughts on UC behind a spoiler tag; haven't gone over his reads on all the slots on the table but still holding on to my fool's hope that maybe someone else in the game will do something. If you think there's anything you can help me understand UC by running me through your thoughts on what I've touched on I'd love to hear it.

Spoiler:

There's the progression on acidphoenix, most of which makes very little sense to me; the initial townread and the reasoning presented in 54 is a very big ??? given the content from acidphoenix up to that point + the follow-up read / reasoning looks like an excuse to townread him rather than something he really thinks makes acidphoenix town. Am looking at 58 and not understanding how the townread matches up with how strongly he was emphasizing getting out of RVS as town behavior. I'm not seeing how the townread, reiterated in 238 now on the basis of gut, is moving to a nullread in 367.

Basically think the whole way his read on acid progresses from apparently a strong meta read to thinking acid needs to post more to having him as probably town due to gut to having him as a nullread is really unfounded and going to take a lot of explaining to help me understand how any of that's real.

---

There's not a lot of data on his Velox read but the shift from weakly scumreading him in 154 to townreading him in 238 isn't explained and the wording in 238 very much suggests that this is a read UC had on Velox earlier in the game, which isn't in the case and looks like UC forgetting that he'd stated a scumread on the slot; think that the timing of the townread as a response to Velox backing off him makes more sense if UC is mafia scumreading anyone who he thinks is a threat. Also think the way he mentions Velox in 228 doesn't match with Velox being a scumread there.

I don't find it very believable that he's moved Velox back to null for not posting; not posting is very much not alignment indicative in and of itself and there are several other players who didn't post over that period; UC's read on them wasn't affected by this which makes it difficult to see as something that he genuinely thinks makes Velox more likely to be mafia.

---

Find his read on garaputo to be just as difficult to understand as the others; he's townreading garaputo from very early and it seems to be his strongest read before he drops it in 164 and says he doesn't know how to sort garaputo but probably scumreads him; 228 stands out here on the garaputo read as well, find it very difficult to believe that UC genuinely believes garaputo's push on Velox is a reason to scumread garaputo when UC is stating that exactly as a reason why it doesn't make sense for sheep to be scumreading Velox. Think there's only one scenario where this is something that I can believe to be real so if you could run me through what you were thinking there in detail UC that's the only way that I'm going to be able to hopefully resolve that.

Think the reasoning in 297 is mostly fine if somewhat skewed and a little confusing in how it's articulated but I'm very much struggling to see how that connects up with 316; the swing to listing him as a hard townread in 367 is unexplained beyond highlighting that one post and UC's previous concerns with the slot aren't resolved anywhere.

in brief defense
1. it is hard to explain my town read on acid.
2. those 2 posts were nearly 100 posts apart. a lot can happen in 100 posts
3. my first read i did on gara was based off one post. then as he kept posting, i changed my mind


though i have a few quesions for velox


velox, why have you not been posting lately and why are the posts you make not really scum hunting?

[UC Voyager]

PS deadline in 8 days, really need people to start being more active and talking about their scumreads as we need to start thinking about who we're going to lynch in 3-4 more days. Bunch of bickering isn't going to help town get anything done so please try to be civil and treat each other nicely and respectfully.

if it gets down to the last 4-2 days, i will start t push sheep, but right now i wan't to put together other things and try to figure out some more of my Town reads

[UC Voyager]

Spoiler:

me too, you should vote him

still dont like this post

nice, we found his buddy too

useless since i dont flip scum

It's a loaded, anti-town question implying that I can only scumread certain slots so I am not gonna answer

no it's literally just asking you for your reads on certain slots

or why do you scumread me? In fact could you explain any of your reads or were they just made up on the fly?

implies that acid's scum
dont like this tunnely play

they were made based on tonal / gut things

your gut reads are wrong

just disagreement
not liking brig's confidence

VOTE: brig

I do not like your case. Some of the things you are calling scummy, i could see from a townie.

VOTE: Sheep
this isn't just gut. I see scum motive behind his posts. I do not see the townie in him at all.

[UC Voyager]

VOTE: Sheep
this isn't just gut. I see scum motive behind his posts. I do not see the townie in him at all.

i cant defend against this if you dont go deeper

1. if you would look at my iso, it would help

2. in stead of defending, how about some scum hunting, looking for motive, looking for tone, VCA, N such

[UC Voyager]

When the question I've asked you is who you most want to talk about for you to then turn and ask me who I want you to talk about isn't something that makes a lot of sense to me if you're town here; if you're mafia on the other hand then you're going to want to turn that question on its head in order to hopefully avoid having to give stances that may not fit with mine. When I've asked you to talk about a read that's important you, you asking me what's important to me is a very useless approach and for you to now say "why won't you answer me" makes very little sense at all and is all part of the backwards argumentation you've been using from very early in the game when I tried to dig into your mostly baseless Velox scumread.

If you are saying "other people are doing X" then telling me *who* those people are allows us to have a meaningful conversation about it.

Refusing to tell me your secret list of people just makes the question meaningless and abstract.

If you ever do want to provide the list, we could eventually talk about things such as:

a) Is it true that those players are doing X?

b) is my read of those players similar to my read of you, and if not why?

I don't care if my stance "fits" with yours or not, I *do* care to have some basic idea about what the conversation I'm involved with is actually about.

I can't tell if this is an argument or trying to work together

Im like pretty sure your both town, so if you could get along. it would really help UC Voyegers

[UC Voyager]

Im like pretty sure your both town, so if you could get along. it would really help UC Voyegers

What makes you think he's town?

like. almost every single one of their posts

[UC Voyager]

I have gotten some stuff done

A. determined sheep is scum

B. determined that both Nancy and Gara are town/ or scum busing hard. lol

[UC Voyager]

they might both be scum trying to detract us

[UC Voyager]

patrick2, uc voyager, brianskies and sheepsaysmeep all read town

Hey patrick2. Would you be able to provide some reasoning for whichever of those reads you feel most strongly about? How confident are you in each of those reads roughly speaking?

I have very strong meta on patrick2 and this is definitely his town game. UC Voyager is all over the place, scattered, paranoid, questioning everything. I like that. I think Brian shows good scumhunting and depth in his reads and tbh the read on sheep is a gut one.

patrick2 - like 95% confident
uc voyager - 80%
brian - like 62%
sheep - 60%

I like this post. He is trying to find the town first. I find this to be a townie trying to find the other townies so he can work with them.

disagree with this
town goal is to find scum
i dont like the post a whole lot

the him being 95% part better be a joke

how does this affect your read on me?

patrick2, uc voyager, brianskies and sheepsaysmeep all read town

Hey patrick2. Would you be able to provide some reasoning for whichever of those reads you feel most strongly about? How confident are you in each of those reads roughly speaking?

I have very strong meta on patrick2 and this is definitely his town game. UC Voyager is all over the place, scattered, paranoid, questioning everything. I like that. I think Brian shows good scumhunting and depth in his reads and tbh the read on sheep is a gut one.

patrick2 - like 95% confident
uc voyager - 80%
brian - like 62%
sheep - 60%

I like this post. He is trying to find the town first. I find this to be a townie trying to find the other townies so he can work with them.

disagree with this
town goal is to find scum
i dont like the post a whole lot

the him being 95% part better be a joke

how does this affect your read on me?

it's just disagreement, doesnt affect read

Ok, so what point were you making?

plsssss don't post disagreement to valid play in a world where it doesn't change a read

Can you explain what you are trying to say here?

patrick2, uc voyager, brianskies and sheepsaysmeep all read town

Hey patrick2. Would you be able to provide some reasoning for whichever of those reads you feel most strongly about? How confident are you in each of those reads roughly speaking?

I have very strong meta on patrick2 and this is definitely his town game. UC Voyager is all over the place, scattered, paranoid, questioning everything. I like that. I think Brian shows good scumhunting and depth in his reads and tbh the read on sheep is a gut one.

patrick2 - like 95% confident
uc voyager - 80%
brian - like 62%
sheep - 60%

I like this post. He is trying to find the town first. I find this to be a townie trying to find the other townies so he can work with them.

disagree with this
town goal is to find scum
i dont like the post a whole lot

the him being 95% part better be a joke

how does this affect your read on me?

it's just disagreement, doesnt affect read

Ok, so what point were you making?

i dont think it's a good reason to tr

So what would be a good reason to TR?

youre asking me what type of stuff is towny
idk openly posting, scumhunting actively, ask the ic

no, i was asking you what would make one townie in your opinion

What do you find bad about the post exactly?

gut dont like the "strong meta on patrick2 and this is definitely his town this game"
pre post 185 i dont see any depth in brian's reads at all

OK. Do you think that I should scum read him based off this post

?
scumread whoever you want to scumread
opinions are different
i scumread him for it you choose what you want :/

im just trying to figure out your post and i think i have it

You are trying to make the other player look bad without scum hunting/town hunting. You are trying to start a mindset that he is scummy without trying to figure out his intentions. This does not look good. I still want t move on though.

?
scumread whoever you want to scumread
opinions are different
i scumread him for it you choose what you want :/

im just trying to figure out your post and i think i have it

You are trying to make the other player look bad without scum hunting/town hunting. You are trying to start a mindset that he is scummy without trying to figure out his intentions. This does not look good. I still want t move on though.

i think he's scummy
? making him look scummy without scumhunting ?
we have different ideas about what scumhunting is

you are soley pointing out what is bad about his play. you are not trying to do anything that would help find a scum if you are wrong about the read

Spoiler:

me too, you should vote him

still dont like this post

nice, we found his buddy too

useless since i dont flip scum

It's a loaded, anti-town question implying that I can only scumread certain slots so I am not gonna answer

no it's literally just asking you for your reads on certain slots

or why do you scumread me? In fact could you explain any of your reads or were they just made up on the fly?

implies that acid's scum
dont like this tunnely play

they were made based on tonal / gut things

your gut reads are wrong

just disagreement
not liking brig's confidence

VOTE: brig

I do not like your case. Some of the things you are calling scummy, i could see from a townie.

VOTE: Sheep
this isn't just gut. I see scum motive behind his posts. I do not see the townie in him at all.

pretty much all of this. when i look at his responses to my questions, I see more scum motivation than town motivation.

Sheep has continued to not really scum hunt or town hunt, but he is definitely trying to chose someone to lynch. tell me that doesn't ring alarms.

[UC Voyager]

(Removed nested quotations due to embedded quote limit)

pretty much all of this. when i look at his responses to my questions, I see more scum motivation than town motivation.

Sheep has continued to not really scum hunt or town hunt, but he is definitely trying to chose someone to lynch. tell me that doesn't ring alarms.

I've read your citations and then looked over sheep's iso. My opinion about sheep differs from yours, and I'd be happy to discuss why, however if you'd prefer to hash it out with sheep directly that's fine too. Let me know.

tell me your thoughts. I town read you, so i would actually like yo hear what you think

[UC Voyager]

(Removed nested quotations due to embedded quote limit)

pretty much all of this. when i look at his responses to my questions, I see more scum motivation than town motivation.

Sheep has continued to not really scum hunt or town hunt, but he is definitely trying to chose someone to lynch. tell me that doesn't ring alarms.

I've read your citations and then looked over sheep's iso. My opinion about sheep differs from yours, and I'd be happy to discuss why, however if you'd prefer to hash it out with sheep directly that's fine too. Let me know.

tell me your thoughts. I town read you, so i would actually like yo hear what you think

On reading the iso, I get a sense that sheep does actually care to figure out the game. I'll pick a particular representative post:

204

This is someone who isn't just reading who says what, but who is interacting with whom. This is indicative of trying to puzzle out the game rather than knowing the answers in advance (IMHO)

OK. that post you referenced is townie and shows town motive, BUT a lot of sheep's posts show scum motive

do you have a reads list of your own?

[UC Voyager]

I am OK with a velox or sheep lynch today

[UC Voyager]

I would settle for you telling me what your read is for each player then I guess. It feels to me a bit like you're prodding everyone else to move things along while dragging your feet some yourself.

garaputo

Brigadoon

Brian Skies

patrick2

UC Voyager

acidphoenix

sheepsaysmeep

Velox

In order of most likely to be town to most likely to be mafia.

[UC Voyager]

I am happy where my vote sits

[UC Voyager]

that capitalization isn't politically correct.

[UC Voyager]

prodge as well lol. I think im close to a prod.

will make a post later

[UC Voyager]

lol

[UC Voyager]

I get the feeling

that

UC Voyager is scum

who is happy with things how they are.

Red = wrong

Yellow = partially true

Green = true

I can't deny the fact it is a feeling. That is true

I am not scum

I would be a shit ton happier if Sheep had more votes. i do not like the gara wagon what so ever.

[UC Voyager]

A few things

1. I will catch up later

2. What happened to the sheep wagon

3. What did I miss

4. Why brig?

[UC Voyager]

Well. It was me and one other person

[UC Voyager]

I think I can catch up during lunch or after school. It had been hard to find time to catch up.

[UC Voyager]

I will be limited access for the next few days.

I will be able to post easily for the rest of today FOR THE MOST PART.

Tomorrow, my mom is going into the hospital because she is due to give birth to my sister! I will be able to post from time to time, but it will be hard because i will be spending time with family.

[UC Voyager]

I don't even wanna be in this game much so I will agree with myself being the lynch VOTE: Brigadoon

BRIG IS AT L-1

pls dont gamethrow

How would you know it is game throwing?

He could be scum. Then it isn't throwing because it helps scum team bus or something like that

Though you look really confidante he is throwing

[UC Voyager]

No. Self-voting is scummy as shit. Though town somtimes do it when they are mad at a game.

[UC Voyager]

I thought your point was that you think sheep "knows" brig is town, when your own post brings up a reason to think a self-voter might be town.
Looks like a contradiction to me, why is it scummy for sheep to think that brig might be town?

No. It isn't townie to self vote. Which is why I find it weird that sheep assumed they were town

basically whenever you assume someone's town when theyre not cleared or anything it's a possible w/v slip

Self-voting is scummy as shit

how does this work; shit isnt scummy

Ok smart ass

[UC Voyager]

I'm happy where my vote sits.

A no lynch might be happen

[UC Voyager]

I might vote velox. Possibly Brian for lurking.

Sheep is the only person in confidante in

[UC Voyager]

I might vote velox. Possibly Brian for lurking.

Sheep is the only person in confidante in

[UC Voyager]

In sorry. I fell behind.


Plus today has been hard.

[UC Voyager]

I do not trust sheep for another reason.

They keep taking pagetops
In a thread Upick, the scum had a PR who had to get points. They could spend these points on roleblocks, vigs, and other abilities.
One way they got points was by making a post that said page top that was a page top.

[UC Voyager]

I want domain over those three letters in that order. Voy should belong to me. (Though someone probably had it before me. Lol)

[UC Voyager]

Will you certify that you are being honest here? Like stamp it with a /honest?

I don't appreciate your sarcasm.

I'll go sleep now and continue my catch-up in ~10 hours..maybe.

PEDIT:

In the interest of full disclosure: I try idiotically hard to win stupid prizes while playing stupid games.

PEDIT2:

Shhhh.. Make sheep claim to be honest first. Don't just assume it.

Policy VOTE: garaputo until I wake up.

Hard town read on UnaH based off meta!

this is serious btw. I genuinely think UnaH is town based off the one post

[UC Voyager]

Lets give sheep some time to claim

[UC Voyager]

Omg. We are all ready 47 pages in on day 1. Holy shit.
Lets go for 100 pages. That would be cool

[UC Voyager]

So we heard from all the replacements?

I'm willing to hammer pending sheep's claim if any.

No. We are still waiting to hear from UnaH

[UC Voyager]

nope!

[UC Voyager]

oof
well im sr'ing ucv > than velox

why are you just doing this now?

you seem to be bandwagoning. at first, your all over velox because he has the bigest wagon, then someone slightly supports someone else, then you go for the person they SR! sure having an open mind could be considered townie, but your just trying to hit big wagons

[UC Voyager]

Ok guys. We keep going from
Velox at l-1
To sheep at l-1
Back to velox at l-1
Then sheep at l-1 again
Then someone else
Then repeat

[UC Voyager]

We need to come to a solution. I would be happy if we could just lynch sheep, but I might compromise. I cannot see a no lynch after 50 fucking pages. We need to end today with a lynch. If we no-lynch, we will get barely any information. If we lynch, even of we lynch town, we get a lot more information to go off of. Though I'm confidante in at least one scum in velox, sheep.

[UC Voyager]

I have picked a wagon. Sheep. I have not moved. I have been there for at least 15 pages (I could be wrong, but I don't think I am).

[UC Voyager]

UC what do I have to do to get you to vote gara?

Please show me your case.

[UC Voyager]

In mobile so it is hard to try to read into stuff

[UC Voyager]

Crap.

I'm looking at gara's iOS. The bandwagon is real. Lol.
The more I think about it, the more I feel safe lynching there.
You Nancy are my highest town read. Your support of the lynch definitely effects my opinion on it.

[UC Voyager]

Intent to hammer

Any objections?

[UC Voyager]

ucv you have yet to provide decent reasoning as to why youre confident in there being scum in me/velox

It is mostly the way y'all have been going back and fourth. If gara is red, I actually think that you might both be green

[UC Voyager]

hammer gara?
i object

give time for a claim fam

Obviously.

[UC Voyager]

Lol. Not even close

[UC Voyager]

If you get lynched I retract my statement that this game was a failure.

I think I'm not going to claim to allow you the satisfaction of punting hard for the town.

Your fucking joking right. If your town, you just made one of the worst posts I have ever seen from a townie

[UC Voyager]

come on ucv my posts were worse

No. They were not

[UC Voyager]

<- doc

Is this a claim?

[UC Voyager]

?

[UC Voyager]

What's up UC?

Do you think that last game (wishes) was an abnormal situation or do these newbie games tend to be rather low participation? Once I had quit the last game I felt like there was not much fire left in the town. Can we expect that rather than people not vote and not show up at deadline, that there will be an attempt to actually use the lynch this time?

Also. Look at the first two words, and the first letters of the remaining sentences in my first post.

What's up D.O.C

How does UC mean D.O.C

[UC Voyager]

What's up UC?

Do you think that last game (wishes) was an abnormal situation or do these newbie games tend to be rather low participation? Once I had quit the last game I felt like there was not much fire left in the town. Can we expect that rather than people not vote and not show up at deadline, that there will be an attempt to actually use the lynch this time?

Also. Look at the first two words, and the first letters of the remaining sentences in my first post.

What's up D.O.C

How does UC mean D.O.C

oh my god

Oh. I see

[UC Voyager]

What's up UC?

Do you think that last game (wishes) was an abnormal situation or do these newbie games tend to be rather low participation? Once I had quit the last game I felt like there was not much fire left in the town. Can we expect that rather than people not vote and not show up at deadline, that there will be an attempt to actually use the lynch this time?

Also. Look at the first two words, and the first letters of the remaining sentences in my first post.

What's up D.O.C

How does UC mean D.O.C

oh my god

Oh. I see

Ok

[UC Voyager]

This game turned out to be kinda hilarious.

We are almost 60 pages in and have no idea what the hell we are doing

[UC Voyager]

No. Nancy invited and saved it.

[UC Voyager]

wow. i wasn't even there for the flash wagon on him. i was like. whattt! but hey, at least we don't have to deal with a day one miss lynch

[UC Voyager]

how is raya scum now?

[UC Voyager]

honestly. we can just lynch POE until day 4 or 5, then we can rethink stuff.

I say the lynch pool is Myself, raya, sheep, velox

[UC Voyager]

honestly. we can just lynch POE until day 4 or 5, then we can rethink stuff.

I say the lynch pool is Myself, raya, sheep, velox

unaH also

[UC Voyager]

btw!
cop or tracker ,do not out yourself unless you get put at l-1 or you got a guilty result!

[UC Voyager]

btw!
cop or tracker ,do not out yourself unless you get put at l-1 or you got a guilty result!

or you get enough clears to have a small enough lynchpool which gives us a confirmed win

If a tracker/cop confirms someone, then the tracker/cop eats the NK, then the cleared person gets the NK.

why do you think a tracker/cop should out themselves when they have an inno result

[UC Voyager]

I can't imagine sheep being town. I just can't.

[UC Voyager]

I can't imagine sheep being town. I just can't.

But Nancy brings up a good point about raya

[UC Voyager]

I can't imagine sheep being town. I just can't.

your case is still literally so weak lmao

my logical side says your town, but my gut feeling says your scum!

[UC Voyager]

Okay.

I want to sort a few people today. I all ready sorted nancy, gara, sheep(debatable), and I have a meta READ ON unaH

I want to try to sort everyone else as well as re-sort sheepsaysmeep

[UC Voyager]

Banned?

[UC Voyager]

Oh. Parent banned.

Well then.

[UC Voyager]

Wow, your parents fucking suck.

Can we please lynch Raya already so Micc doesn't have to bother with a replacement? She's not posting anymore and I have a guilty on her.

wait. your a cop? and you investigated raya and got a guilty?

[UC Voyager]

WTF IS HAPPENING

[UC Voyager]

VOTE: raya

FINE!

[UC Voyager]

no. no. nancy. if the game isn't over. Im done. im not doing no meme shit

[UC Voyager]

This is my third town win on day 2 in a row. lol

[UC Voyager]

I actually did. it was a half decent game. i did fall behind, but overall i did good!

[UC Voyager]

I actually did. it was a half decent game. i did fall behind, but overall i did good!

well. i did good in comparison to my normal play

[UC Voyager]

gg
ree

can this count as a completed game for me

pretty much because no one replaced you before end game.

[UC Voyager]

Nancy carried town here