Newbie 1845 - A New Dawn Game Over

[RadiantCowbells]

I sincerely hope that someone is a cop or something and checks me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I ask you, what about the other way around? You lynch me, what do you do. Lynch LUV like you should have done before?

I wouldn't even mind if we said we leashed any cops or Neas onto me in the case of a town flip and then 5/9ths of setups we can assume I'm clear until massclaim

[RadiantCowbells]

Like and I know you know how I generally feel about being investigated and that seems out of character and perhaps scummy as a result, but I think this game is an exception and encouraging investigations on me if LUV really flips town is the correct play all the way. Especially since neapolitans can't get fake guilties checking another PR since I am a known VT.

[RadiantCowbells]

And don't make that mean I think he flips town. I legit find it so difficult to imagine him flipping town.

Like if he were town why would he care that I'm insinuating he's playing against his wincon? If he's town he's obviously not and from his point of view I'd just be scum being an asshole: there's no reason to take personal offense in the way that he did unless he knows that I'm being sincere and it has some truth to it (ie, he's scum). But I don't want to profiteer from stuff that's quasi out of game like that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like. I can still see a universe where you're scum but there's stuff from you that bleeds town really hard and I'm not sure if you could fake it.

But besides you?
Aviqf had some super town moments
Inferno is obvtown as hell
Sando is obvtown as hell
That alone is the game poed if we assume I'm town.

And sananeet or whatever, I'm too lazy to figure out his name, also feels pretty damn town.

(I would also say that Creature seemed kind of town at one point, and him being super busy IRL may be why he's so busy so if he picks up later he can confirm himself town)
Even if we don't, there's most likely two PRs that can get role results and one clear outside of that group is pretty much it for the game, plus gives us space to reevaluate
I don't think we lose this game very often if you're still alive and town to keep Sando and Inferno off each other and get them onto scum.

I have some faith in Sando to pull himself together after my town flip as well so idk. I don't think we straight up lose if I get lynched like you seem to.

I'd be more personally upset by it because I feel like I've put so much into this game and apparently people both scumread me and are unhappy with me personally and I don't know why.

To be fair to LUV, I found the "bad IC" shit to be toeing a line and I'd probably spin out, too. I believe in playing to win so I understand why you said it, but I generally feel that that kind of criticism of IC capability belongs in end game or in a PM to the mod.

I have honestly done my best to avoid talking about it. If there's a dead thread and smith confirms LUV as scum I am going to rant about it for days.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am avoiding creature because I know he's busy

I could consider voting Redflavour if you would prefer that

[RadiantCowbells]

I think if navaneet is scum he's scum with LUV because I don't think he'd defend LUV the way he is unless they're scumbuddies.
Idk sunlit I'm trying my best and the only solution I can see is that people are pushing on me and refusing to play the game because they're scum.
If scum are in the people who are actually taking the time to talk to me and take my input seriously then I don't want to win.

Like it's hard to imagine either of Red or LUV being town to me right now. I know that's probably biased because I'm emotional about how hard I've been pushed but I can't really see it right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I just don't think LUV is actually the kind of person as town to deathtunnel me over an 11 post predecessor and refuse to talk to me. I don't.
Redflavour maybe I guess but LUV is experienced enough, he knows generally how I operate, and he's playing in a role where he has some level of duty to engage with people.

Whereas there's clear scum motivation for it, LUV is scared shitless of me running amok as town and wants to get me out of the game as fast as possible.

[RadiantCowbells]

This game is hurting me either way.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sunset was one of my scumreads replacing in and I can see it but who would you replace in Redlfavor/LUV?

Like clearly in either case scum have decided that they want me dead, which leans LUV, but it's just so blah

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think we'll be getting an RC lynch today. Assuming we did, and assuming you flip green, I'm looking at the people who barely engaged with you at all, first.

To my mind we get more info from RC flipping than LUV, regardless of result. RC flipping either way actually changes things one way or another regardless of alignment, I do not see the same from LUV, outside of RC/LUV themselves obviously.

Pushing info lynches is a terrible decision and I'm not just saying that because it's me. If you're going to vote me, vote me because you think I'm more likely to flip town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Err. Flip scum. Going to call that a townslip because why not

[RadiantCowbells]

Like the thing is that I think this is one of the only cases I've ever been in where there's actual objective merit to lynching me for information
but because in the long run it's almost always a shit play to lynch for information or make 'safe' vt lynches I refuse to encourage it as a viable way to play the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like the thing is that I think this is one of the only cases I've ever been in where there's actual objective merit to lynching me for information
but because in the long run it's almost always a shit play to lynch for information or make 'safe' vt lynches I refuse to encourage it as a viable way to play the game.

Despite that objective merit it's obviously not optimal because we can actually lynch scum instead, but I do think my flip makes the game a lot clearer.
THAT SAID, I think that LUV's flip makes the game equally clear.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think we'll be getting an RC lynch today. Assuming we did, and assuming you flip green, I'm looking at the people who barely engaged with you at all, first.

To my mind we get more info from RC flipping than LUV, regardless of result. RC flipping either way actually changes things one way or another regardless of alignment, I do not see the same from LUV, outside of RC/LUV themselves obviously.

Pushing info lynches is a terrible decision and I'm not just saying that because it's me. If you're going to vote me, vote me because you think I'm more likely to flip town.

The context is responding to Sunlit about the info of lynches... I've only ever mentioned it in the context of deriving the information you yourself has requested me to derive, or here when Sunlit is already talking about the info from a lynch.

Yes info lynches are bad, but a) you suggested it to me originally so I'm not sure where your sudden change of heart is coming from, and b) it's in context here, which sunlit can deduce for himself without your help.

If you're directing the comment about not voting for info lynches to me, why? I'm clearly voting you because I think you're scum. If you're directing it to Sunlit, why? Does he need the help from you?

I'm saying it because I feel like it's my responsibility to teach you for future games. And I believe if you read the intermediary posts you will understand what I meant exactly.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I'm an unhelpful presence in the thread, what are LUV and Redflavour doing nothing but repeatedly saying that I'm scum while neither of them has made any substantial contributions on my actions since joining?

[RadiantCowbells]

If you want to influence the days lynch I strongly recommend you do your catchup and whatever now. Otherwise place a vote down.

[RadiantCowbells]

I want to scumread RC because that self vote really is/was epic WIFOM territory...and we've spent something like twenty pages talking pretty much solely about him from one perspective or another and I'm not sure it's actually helped the game at all. Also I feel a bit like a cat getting its belly stroked and that's not really a way I'm used to feeling in mafia games. It's possible I've just randomly improved so much that RC thinks I'm the best player in the game, but there's a man with a razor who says it's more likely RC is scum with a plan.

I think the real occam's razor says that I am buddying you because I think that if I buddy you you're more likely to townread me.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you want to vote me I'll selfhammer before I go to bed to make sure we don't end in a no lynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well if you're not willing to vote Red or LUV then we're not going to find any common ground.

[RadiantCowbells]

And let's be clear I was buddying you strategically, it's something that I do. It does't make me scum. In fact it's something I'm a lot more reluctant to do as scum because I don't want anyone to feel bad at the end of the game.

But if you're not going to vote LUV then you should be voting me.

Yes, but *why* do you want me specifically to townread you? That's what baffles me.

And I'm not voting tonight. I'm really freaking tired, I have until 2pm my time tomorrow, and I want to see if nav comes up with anything interesting.

Because I'm doing other things to make other people townread me and this is how I'm interacting with you to get you to townread me.
I've singled you out for flattery but I've tried to persuade other people in other ways.

[RadiantCowbells]

I won't be on during the day. I would prefer you vote me now so that I can have my last words.

[RadiantCowbells]

And let's be clear: at my level of surety that LUV is scum we're not letting him out a PR. No one is checking him, no one is using PRs on him, you're just all voting him in your first post and ignoring whatever he posts.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like ignore any PR claim he makes. He will claim PR to out PRs. Do not listen to his PR claims, do not counterclaim, don't even talk about PRs until he is lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

Unless you have a guilty on someone else ofc, but still lynch LUV the day after.

[RadiantCowbells]

And frankly Sunlit if you think that Naneet is scum you shouldn't be voting the person they're trying to get lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

And let's be clear: at my level of surety that LUV is scum we're not letting him out a PR. No one is checking him, no one is using PRs on him, you're just all voting him in your first post and ignoring whatever he posts.

Like ignore any PR claim he makes. He will claim PR to out PRs. Do not listen to his PR claims, do not counterclaim, don't even talk about PRs until he is lynched.

Unless you have a guilty on someone else ofc, but still lynch LUV the day after.

^^^

[RadiantCowbells]

Navneet has, for the record, been online for a lot of portions of the day without posting which is potentially them posting in scum PT

[RadiantCowbells]

We have five hours

[RadiantCowbells]

We'd still be down a vote.

Who from my wagon is gonna hammer red?

[RadiantCowbells]

I do not see that happening.

[RadiantCowbells]

Last thing I want to say in my own defense is that really... if I was scum I wouldn't be at L-1.
Like you know that I'm good as scum so you're paranoid of me but you don't fully understand what that entails, I just wouldn't be lynched D1 as scum in a newbie. Never would happen.

[RadiantCowbells]

And yeah.

If that's your scumread, you should be voting the person they're protecting, not the person they're going after.

[RadiantCowbells]

If Naneet is scum he won't vote Red unless Red is town
naneet's play makes more sense in a scum LUV universe.

I do not want to derail to red.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I was anyone else would you think that I was scum here?

[RadiantCowbells]

HOLY FUCK NO

YOU DO NOT LYNCH ME THEN LYNCH MY TOWNREADS

[RadiantCowbells]

WHY ARE YOU VOTING SOMEONE WHO YOU THINK IS TOWN ANYWAY

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: RC

If Sunlit votes Inferno lynch her.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: RC

If Sunlit votes Inferno lynch her.

Literally if anyone does not vote LUV tomorrow lynch them the day after.

Do not claim anything do not discuss anything just vote LUV in your first post

if you have a guilty do not claim your guilty just vote LUV.

[RadiantCowbells]

And now that I'm dead you're all REALLY bad for scumreading me. Sorry, you deserve that.

[RadiantCowbells]

I lynch your townreads when I don't townread them?

Fuck your townreads you scumread me you don't get a say from here on out.

[RadiantCowbells]

If she votes Inferno lynch her please.

[RadiantCowbells]

But seriously: LUV will autoclaim a PR as soon as day 2 starts, ignore him just vote him.

[RadiantCowbells]

In fact here's how we're doing this

Creature is clear from now on since he voted LUV.

Do not vote anyone who voted for LUV for the remainder of the game.

Sunlit replaces Creature in the 3 I want dead, lynch navaneet if you get the chance as well but low prio.

[RadiantCowbells]

You know you *could* have waited to see how inferno responded to that.

You could have not scumread me when I was fucking obvious town to the nth degree.

[RadiantCowbells]

and congrats LUV you shit all over the IC role and the newbie queue to get me lynched do you feel like a better person now?

[RadiantCowbells]

LUV -> Redflavour -> Sunlit wins the game

check Redflavour at night if we have any cops/neapolitans, if he is town then replace him with Navaneet.

[RadiantCowbells]

do not check luv, do not listen to any pr claims he makes, do not talk to him

[RadiantCowbells]

and yes

treat aviqf/inferno/creature like confirmed town please.

they might as well be.

[RadiantCowbells]

I do not believe for a moment that sunlit believes their reads are better than mine.

If they try to divert the wagon it's because they are scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think it's sunlit/LUV honestly
the bad feeling I've had about Sunlit the whole game then her randomly deciding to 180 and try to lynch me doesn't make sense

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you tried to derail to Navaneet and Inferno both when the 1v1 was on.
Do you really think I pick a 1v1 like the one with LUV while not being super sure of the flip
Worth noting you never actually voted LUV the whole game nor did you ever give a reason to townread
Also that you seemed to be stalling, which I believe was to avoid taking responsibility for my lynch and getting someone else to do your dirty work for you

Oh: and in case you're wondering check dead thread.
I was kissing up to you so much in the hope that you would think you had me pocketed and either bus or give away more information
same reason I refused to let you hammer where I wasn't here to say that

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey Redflavour what are your thoughts?

Anything exciting to contribute?

Your amazing 100% certain scumread that you never said jack about was wrong! What a surprise, maybe your IC gave you bad advice?

[RadiantCowbells]

So here's my actual, not trying to manipulate people to do stupid shit readslist

{Inferno}
{Aviqf, Sando}
{Creature}
{Navaneet or w/e}
{Redflavour}
{Sunlit, LUV}

[RadiantCowbells]

Huh

your scumread on me that you never contributed jack shit in terms of giving reasons on was wrong.

do you think it's possible that it could have been wrong because you lsitened to the IC's advice to stick with a stale read on someone who posted 11 times rather than actually play the game?

Or are you just scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

This is your chance redflavor babe. One on one with confirmed town. Why did you scumread me so much that it was worth not playing the game for 40 pages?

[RadiantCowbells]

So. Sunlit doesn't want me to run the game. But sorry, I am. Non-negotiable

If you are a

COP

, you are going to check

Sunlit Diamond

.
If you are Sunlit Diamond and a

COP

, you are going to check

Creature

If you are a

Neapolitan

, you are going to check Redflavour.

If you are a

Jailkeeper

, you are going to wifom in between Sunlit/Flavor/Creature/LUV

If you are a

Tracker

, you are going to wifom in the same pool.

If you are a

Doctor

, take your pick of the people that you think are towny and likely to die. Do not pick in Sunlit/Flavor/LUV.

[RadiantCowbells]

Now, you are obviously going to lynch LUV first thing tomorrow regardless of what he claims.

But since you also need to give your results.

If you are a COP and get an INNO you are simply going to put a random player name then a 'no' at the start of your first post.
If you are a NEA and get an INNO you are ALSO going to put a random player name then a 'no' at the start of your first post

If you are either of the above and get a GUILTY you are going to put a YES.

If you are a TRACKER you are going to put your targets name then a NO unless your target visits someone.
If they DO visit someone, you are going to put your targets name then a YES.

If they visit the person who performs the nightkill (visits dead), you will CLAIM OUTRIGHT

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh. You are going to put a random player name then a yes. You can random.org from the living players.

Now if you are a VT or NOT ONE OF THE ABOVE ROLES you are going to provide cover for them.

In doing so you are also going to pick a RANDOM PLAYER NAME (or a scumread if you want!) then do a random.org 1-10. IF you get a 1234567, you put NO. If you get 8910, you put YES.

[RadiantCowbells]

Regardless of your feelings about me as a player, my instructions are coming from confirmed town and give everyone the opportunity to give results with significantly increased safety compared to normal play.
If you deviate from this play because of your own reads, you are risking a false confirmation. Don't do that.

I don't think it's unreasonable after I was lynched for terrible reasons that I should have control over one set of night actions, particularly when I can arrange them to significantly increase town's chances of winning by concealing the results.

Don't be a party pooper, work with me here and do what I've asked.

[RadiantCowbells]

And here's my biggest argument in favour of Inferno scum

I do not believe that with how strongly Inferno feels about me that he would be one half of a dipole with his partner pushing on LUV.
That leaves his choices of partners to basically Aviqf or Creature and that ALSO suggests that it was literally a 5 town wagon on me.

I am sorry if this comes acorss as egotistical but I do not get lynched by a 5 town wagon. I do not have 5 town scumreading me on D1. That does not happen.
So it's far more likely both scum are in the pool of people scumreading me, and I've set up night actions to give us a good chance of ferreting them out.

[RadiantCowbells]

We'd have a LUV lynch today if RC had freaking held onto his horses and waited to see what the hell I was looking for instead of derp voting himself.

I don't believe you.

[RadiantCowbells]

You had more than 14 days to help town and you didn't.

[RadiantCowbells]

I helped in the ways I knew how. You had absolutely no good reason to self vote here.

Like I said: I can't be on the whole day and I wanted to get last words in twilight. I told you this yesterday.

[RadiantCowbells]

Not one of the scumreads on me made sense and I stand by that: you should really stop and think about what went wrong with both your read and your approach to scumreading me because this was a complete implosion.

I guess I can't assume LUV being antitown as shit makes him scum but I feel like that read was rather justified: no reasons were ever given based on my play to Sr me from 3/4 voters, 2/3 of whom were town. That's how you mislynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

You lynched the most pro-town person and didn't make an effort to reach out to Sunlit so that's probably why the game felt like a drag.

[RadiantCowbells]

You complained about something, I told you why that thing happened.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's part of the new newbie setup.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think that I was the one who was out of line this game when the IC was encouraging people to derptunnel my predecessor and ignore my play based off of an 11 post read.
I also don't think I was as spectacularly toxic as you seem to think that I was but I'm willing to leave it.

I can't play the game if people are doing what LUV is doing so I have to put a stop to it somehow. Don't really think I had a better answer to this game than to do what I did.

LUV guaranteed both a shitty game and a scum win, I just played the best I could with the cards that I was dealt.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I could have rolled over and died rather than fighting but that would have absolutely sent the wrong message: I think if the newbies in this game are willing to learn from the message of this game they'll be better players. Sando seems to not want to learn from it and that's fine, but I hope other people try to understand where this game went wrong.

I didn't see it that way. I also don't think it was worth as strong a reaction as you had. LUV's read could have been discussed and dismissed as bad without razing his character. Even IC's have bad reads, ya know?

There's having a bad read and there's sitting there saying that it's correct play to deathtunnel someone because they had an 11 post predecessor who was scummy. And I didn't have the choice of lynching anyone else: he was never unvoting me, red was never unvoting me, I could only lynch him back.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also...I scum read sunset off a single post, so I'm not sure why post count actually factors into the relative merit of a read...

Because my hundreds of posts give far more insight into the alignment of my slot than the eleven posts of my predecessor.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that the moment LUV/RC was known to be TvT Navneet should have been a quicklynch. Don't think that's necessarily true.

[RadiantCowbells]

I didn’t death tunnel you RC. I didn’t death tunnel period. My read was solely based on Saul’s play. I was okay with the day ending around 20 something pages because I felt it went on to long and I knew if Creature continued to do nothing Day 2, I wouldn’t have to find another non-meta reason to push for his lynch.

You never once suggested voting Creature.

[RadiantCowbells]

I know I could’ve played better but I think town pull it out if we had lynched your slot at that time.

???

No you didn't, he was town. don't justify that shit