Newbie 1916: Epic Music [Night 1]

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TemporalLich
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Post Post #100  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:05 pm

*She

Yeah, I don't think roomy is that active.

teacher
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Post Post #101  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:14 pm

Fair enough. I think I’ve flogged your horse enough. Thanks for putting up with me. Now I have to wait for flippy to return and answer my questions and YouTube to be replaced. Have a good night

Frozen Angel
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Post Post #102  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:25 pm

Vote Count 1.4CatStar (3): LewisMCYoutube, Skellen, Birdy [L-2]
TemporalLich (2): roomy, teacher [L-3]
Birdy (1): CatStar
Skellen (1): Emperor flippyNips

Not Voting (2): Clemency, TemporalLich


With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends in 0 days, 15 hours, 54 minutes

Spoiler: Vote Change Tracker/Vote Links Day 1
teacher -> Clemency, TemporalLich
CatStar -> Birdy
LewisMCYoutube -> CatStar
roomy -> LewisMCYoutube, Unvote, TemporalLich
Emperor flippyNips -> Skellen
TemporalLich -> roomy, Unvote
Skellen -> CatStar
Birdy -> CatStar


Spoiler: Wagon Change Tracker Day 1
CatStar (2+1): LewisMCYoutube, Skellen, Birdy
TemporalLich (2): roomy, teacher
Birdy (1): CatStar
Skellen (1): Emperor flippyNips
roomy (0): TemporalLich
LewisMCYoutube (0): roomy
Clemency (0): teacher


Note: LewisMCYoutube is prodded. They have 24 hours till (expired on 2019-02-12 06:05:00) to respond to this prod.


False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self


"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie

CatStar
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Post Post #103  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:46 am

In post 85, Skellen wrote:
Personally I think the issue with WIFOM is to not overthink anything otherwise it will never lead you anywhere.

What was your slight suspicion about roomy before?


I was a bit suspicious of the questions without their own analysis.

CatStar
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Post Post #104  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:50 am

In post 87, teacher wrote:
In post 85, Skellen wrote:What was your slight suspicion about roomy before?
Want me to jump in or to let CatStar speak?


Jump in about this topic?

I saw you ask someone else about time zone. I'm GMT and tend to have time to post before and after work, but that might mean I can't respond right away (though I like to read so I have some sense of what I want to say when I have time ).

teacher
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Post Post #105  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:42 am

In post 104, CatStar wrote:
In post 87, teacher wrote:
In post 85, Skellen wrote:What was your slight suspicion about roomy before?
Want me to jump in or to let CatStar speak?


Jump in about this topic?.

Yea, about that topic. As a rule of thumb, if one player directs a question to second, its considered bad form to answer yourself because the original player may have had a purpose in steering the question, and providing an earlier answer could influence the second's own response. So I wanted to check before I shared my own reaction to Roomy.

teacher
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Post Post #106  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:45 am

In post 81, Emperor flippyNips wrote:Hi all should have some time to catch up later today
:eek: Perhaps today, pretty please? Just a reminder that I have pending questions for you in . Id also like to see some reads from you since you havent posted game-relevant content yet, and theres alot of meat here.

Frozen Angel
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Post Post #107  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:11 am

LewisMCYoutube failed to pick up their prod and is getting replaced.
False tears bring pain to those around you
False smile brings pain to one's self


"Frozen Like Your Heart." -Ginngie

Skellen
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Post Post #108  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:01 pm

In post 92, teacher wrote:Im actually not ok with leaving it, since there is an off chance this comment could be laying the seed for a later push if need be. What was the core of your question? I understood it to be why vote Clemency. The answer, as given, was to give a funny tip of my hat to him, who had just welcomed me as well. But if Im missing something, I dont mind going back over it.


Alright. I think to clarify it helps referring to your post #. Knowing why you voted Clem was one point but basically I kind of had an idea through the linked post. What is bothering me was the second question in #. In combination with #: On one hand you found flippy's vote on me odd because he didn't go after you who should be a good RVS target by his scum criteria (trying too hard) because you are a try-hard. On the other hand you voted Clem although you said yourself in # that you won't get any AI indicative data through pressuring him. That feels kind of inconsequent. If I compare these two statements I can't help but feel that it looks odd to me.

However I also remembered that you stated also in # that the RVS is a way of semi-friendly greeting, which is why your answer to me looks in character in my eyes and I decided to leave it at that as we both just approach this with a different mindset (since you read part of my meta you probably have a small grip on my way of thinking/personality, so you might know that anyway). Although if you feel free to resolve that I wouldn't mind.

Skellen
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Post Post #109  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:05 pm

In post 87, teacher wrote:Want me to jump in or to let CatStar speak?


Sure, go on.

Kind of hoped CatStar would have elaborated more on this, I figure she meant his questions towards Clem/teacher?

Skellen
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Post Post #110  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:25 pm

In post 93, teacher wrote:I cut the above to the core of what I wanted to talk about. The progression from to didnt really bother me. On the other hand, the progression in , , and bothered me quite a bit, particularly 66 to 68. In , Lich tries to DEFEND the read change as "regression to the mean to be honest. -- i.e., an explicit claim that the read change was intentional and justifiable, with an ATE of credibility. Just two hours later in , when confronted with further suspicion, Lich abandons the defense, saying it was an "accidental slip." In other words, 68 admits 66 was a cover-up, one made while claiming honesty.

At bottom I am of two minds. I can see where you all are coming from with newb fitting in. I also am having difficulty believing newb!scum would so abruptly about face and confess error without some guidance that the position was indefensible, and such guidance was unlikely at an off-peak hour. At the same time, the specific wording of these posts is bugging me.

@Skellen, I do view 68 and 72 as answering how his reads changed -- they were soft towns that he did not really feel. To me thats another mark against him, making blendy reads that he didnt feel to create some presence. I am nowhere approaching high-confidence, but I dont view 72 and after as redeeming in the way some other players have suggested.


First paragraph: Ah, that's a good catch. I agree with that, that doesn't look good. Personally I was more bothered in # by his line how he slipped because he flubbed his townreads back to neutral without any evidence. That doesn't read like something that would a townie say imo. It is not unusual to take back your reads or change your opinion, but saying something like not having any evidence for changing his mind is weird, that looks like he didn't had any thought process when he came up with his reads. You basically already said that with mentioning his weird wording. If he would have said it was just a change by guts, that wouldn't even be a thing.

Second: I disagree that such behaviour would speak against scum!Lich. If we assume scum!Lich it would actually make sense that no one is there for him for guidance and he is kind of lost. We have after all some inactives/"semi-actives". However that would go too far into the speculative direction as we don't even have a clue about Lich's alignment at the moment, but it's imo the best explanation why scum!Lich would act like he is right now.

Skellen
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Post Post #111  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:44 pm

I mean after #72 he is just talking himself more into trouble.
In post 99, TemporalLich wrote:I have nothing to justify Skellen being neutral now but unconfidence will be the death of me so I must stay strong.

He's not NAI or scum, that's for sure.


Now maybe I am failing here because English is not my native language, but what is he saying here? I am no scum, I am no NAI (thus null I guess?), he can't justify me being neutral (then why even saying this?), but I am also no town as he repeated again. So what... am I even now at this point?

I am indecisive if chaotic neutral or chaotic evil with this one. His posts after #72 didn't looked better.

Skellen
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Post Post #112  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:48 pm

Also UNVOTE: CatStar

See no reason to keep her on L-2 and particularly over Lich at this point. Would still like to hear more from her.

Also Birdy as I liked his entrance into the game. I liked that he took in # a clear stance.

TemporalLich
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Post Post #113  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:55 pm

In post 111, Skellen wrote:Now maybe I am failing here because English is not my native language, but what is he saying here? I am no scum, I am no NAI (thus null I guess?), he can't justify me being neutral (then why even saying this?), but I am also no town as he repeated again. So what... am I even now at this point?
You've reached plaid it seems. For now I'll say your read is No Result.

In post 111, Skellen wrote:I am indecisive if chaotic neutral or chaotic evil with this one. His posts after #72 didn't looked better.
I wouldn't know either.

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Post Post #114  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:11 pm

@clem, I think I asked you earlier, but when you played with teacher, what was he like, particularly regarding his interactions with newer/more inexperienced players?

@teacher, what conclusions, if any, did you reach from your conversation with Lich last night?

this is pretty WIFOMy, but I'm getting a gut feeling that teacher doesn't believe his own arguments. and for someone suspicious of blendy reads, his pressure on Lich hasn't actually moved the needle much, IMO. not that this is implicitly scummy, but his logic has followed my own pretty much turn-for-turn; coupling that with some uninformative questions gives me the feeling that he is primarily concerned about the appearance of pressure, especially in his IC role.

@Lich -- who's the scummiest player in the game to you, right now? if you had to pick, etc.

TemporalLich
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Post Post #115  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:53 pm

In post 114, roomy wrote:@Lich -- who's the scummiest player in the game to you, right now? if you had to pick, etc.
CatStar

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Post Post #116  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:03 pm

In post 113, TemporalLich wrote:I wouldn't know either.


You on the other hand are going to L-2 for now. VOTE: Lich

I am starting to believe that you are purposely messing around with us. It's bothering me for a while that I always see you lurking here yet nothing is coming from you unless there is talk about you. Scum or clueless town, I want to see more initiative from you. I see roomy already asked you something. Since activity seems to be one of your greater criteria for reading people I would like to hear your opinion on teacher in one or two sentences as he is the most active player here.

PEdit: Ok and what makes you see CatStar as the most scummiest person at the moment?

@roomy:
I support the question about teacher's conclusions from his conversation with Lich. It ended a bit abrupt considering Lich's posts just got more confusing. As for the arguments he isn't believing in, would you like to show which posts you mean in particular as example?

TemporalLich
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Post Post #117  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:21 pm

In post 116, Skellen wrote:
In post 113, TemporalLich wrote:I wouldn't know either.


You on the other hand are going to L-2 for now. VOTE: Lich
I don't get the logic behind your vote. Seems reactionary to me. This is consistent considering you're a No Result.

In post 116, Skellen wrote:I am starting to believe that you are purposely messing around with us. It's bothering me for a while that I always see you lurking here yet nothing is coming from you unless there is talk about you. Scum or clueless town, I want to see more initiative from you. I see roomy already asked you something. Since activity seems to be one of your greater criteria for reading people I would like to hear your opinion on teacher in one or two sentences as he is the most active player here.
teacher is really good at grilling and is a trustworthy person. He's also the most helpful person here so far. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe he is town.

I'm warming up to the game, it's hard to be active if no one's really active.

In post 116, Skellen wrote:PEdit: Ok and what makes you see CatStar as the most scummiest person at the moment?
I think she's the least towny out of all of us. Probably an active lurker tbh.

VOTE: CatStar

In post 116, Skellen wrote:@roomy:
I support the question about teacher's conclusions from his conversation with Lich. It ended a bit abrupt considering Lich's posts just got more confusing. As for the arguments he isn't believing in, would you like to show which posts you mean in particular as example?
Sorry about that, the confusion is probably mostly related to your read.

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Post Post #118  (ISO)  » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:30 pm

@skellen, mostly #93, although again this is almost entirely gut at this point. he linguistic analysis seems superficial; I would not call 'to be honest' an AtE.

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Post Post #119  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:14 am

In post 109, Skellen wrote:
In post 87, teacher wrote:Want me to jump in or to let CatStar speak?


Sure, go on.

Kind of hoped CatStar would have elaborated more on this, I figure she meant his questions towards Clem/teacher?


Yes that's right. But on reflection think I was over reacting.

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Post Post #120  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:49 am

I'm still not seeing TemporalLich scum motivation for their posts, unless they are deliberately causing confusion as skellen says... On the other hand, they are stubbornly nul on someone others read as town (skellen) when would be easier to get town points as scum to agree. I'm seeing awkward play style which is not alignment indicative.

@skellen: I see your point about seeing scum partners as a bit wifom at this point, but based on interactions thus far who could you see being buddies with TL?

Regarding teacher, given their own self meta about efforting town regardless of alignment and role as IC, I'm not sure can give a confident read. Which is repeating myself a bit. However, am moving towards town for roomy based on recent posting.

@roomy: What do you think the motivation is for potentially misrepresenting TL comment as AtE?

There was a similar discussion in my last game, which turned out to be almost entirely town v town. From reading a few other games, it seems like people get hung up on language, which rarely pans out when you look back over the game once finished.

Bit suspicious of flippy not returning as promised, will see what their next post brings. I take it from their posts, and posts about them, will have to wait to see what flips and interaction info bring for Clem... So info required on their slot. Birdy am still neutral on.

TemporalLich
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Post Post #121  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:49 am

If Skellen's read were to deresolve it would most likely become scum, not town.

teacher
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Post Post #122  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:46 am

Sorry for being absent last night/today; grades from those exams were due. I will get on in a few of my free periods to catch up. I have some quick thoughts that I will get out now from my mobile reading last night.

teacher
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Post Post #123  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:56 am

In post 114, roomy wrote:@teacher, what conclusions, if any, did you reach from your conversation with Lich last night?

That his approach was even more confusing than I had thought, but that I wasnt going to get a read from continuing and I was appearing rude so better to drop it to keep the gameroom pleasant.

In post 114, roomy wrote:I'm getting a gut feeling that teacher doesn't believe his own arguments

Good feeling. See what I said in -- "I am of two minds." So no, I dont believe my argument because I dont really have one. Its not a null, its a conflicted scumlean OR newb!town and cant decide. He certainly isnt my strongest scumread.

In post 114, roomy wrote:his pressure on Lich hasn't actually moved the needle much, IMO.

Agreed -- see the first quote and response. But you get town points for noticing it and my waffling.

In post 114, roomy wrote:his logic has followed my own pretty much turn-for-turn

Ummmmm, no? I know you dont like the language focus/disagree with the ATE language, but my first post on Lich - - made that unique contribution. The subsequent interaction was not based on anything you said, but more chasing down each of Lich's new responses in real time.

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Post Post #124  (ISO)  » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:01 am

In post 109, Skellen wrote:
In post 87, teacher wrote:Want me to jump in or to let CatStar speak?


Sure, go on.

Kind of hoped CatStar would have elaborated more on this, I figure she meant his questions towards Clem/teacher?
I wound up posting it anyways without thinking about your question (sorry for that) in . Roomy had regressed for me based purely on activity after securing a town. One of the hardest things for Scum to do is maintain the Want it More/Solviness of an active town player (which I had seen in Roomy at the start) over the course of the game. But the activity, and town vibes, are back.

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