Newbie 2125 - Postgame

[DragonEater70]

Holy moly guys I can't believe it. The game has started and we're still in RVS???? This seems very very shady.

Now I am going to anticipate someone pointing out to Pink Ball's analysis in Team Mafia (he was scum btw) and saying "but DragonEater is never serious in RVS therefore he scum bc serious". Two things:
1. True. I woke up feeling super scummy today.
2. Ughhh there's no point no. 2, I just wanted to try something different thia time cause honestly I am kinda running out of ideas of how to troll in RVS.

Not that this isn't a troll, because it is.

So anyhow, since I'm being all serious here, I'll go ahead and call the scum team of Delta and BB based on my extremely in depth analysis, which I'll detail below. But before that:

VOTE: BB

Reasons BB is scum: they placed their RVS vote on a completely safe slot that wouldn't draw any attention and that intentionally avoids engaging with the game or other players' votes. Like saying "ez" doesn't give any indication whatsoever that they actually think KKFC is scummy, or why. And there are no other votes on KKFC nor any risk this early that this would be thought of as "voting a lurker" or "chainsaw". Basically, the perfect blend in post.

Reasons Delta is scum: Delta is always scum. Nuff said.

[DragonEater70]

Also, this is literally my FIRST newbie game without patchwork and I am really sad.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: ChicagoTypewriter

You are obsolete.

Also, does

no one

on this site appreciate a classic? smh.

Just outta curiosity, are you saying that you are a classic? That your name is? Or...?

[DragonEater70]

Imagine you're Egix, you're a Semi Experienced player. You know you're playing with newbies, some of them total newbies. You put a person at E-2, at a range where two newbies could hammer someone this early, either accidentally or not realizing they shouldn't do it this early.

Maybe scum!Egix is counting on that? E-2 isn't "as bad" as E-1, and Egix would have clean hands.

I think you're reading into this way too much, I've been put at E-2 on page 1 before by a town player. But I don't think you reading too much into it is necessarily scummy? Especially considering the fact that I'd just done something similar with voting someone for an inconspicuous page 1 vote. So I guess you might have a point after all? Eh, if my wagon on BB doesn't gain traction, I might change to Egix just to see how they react.

[DragonEater70]

Eh, I do this all the time in my games.

Dunno why but this post feels townie, cause I think scum!Delta wouldn't defend another player this early, especially not with this kind of defense. In fact, right now Delta has become my top (and quite possibly my only) townread.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: ChicagoTypewriter

You are obsolete.

Also, does

no one

on this site appreciate a classic? smh.

Just outta curiosity, are you saying that you are a classic? That your name is? Or...?

this is scum choo choo

The heck? I sincerely have no idea what they mean, so I asked a question. Why is that scummy?

You put a person at E-2, at a range where two newbies could hammer someone this early, either accidentally or not realizing they shouldn't do it this early.

There's a section on this topic in the OPs. The chance of this actually happening is less likely than you think.

Yeah that's true actually, so I am gonna keep my vote on BB either way right now.

[DragonEater70]

The heck? I sincerely have no idea what they mean, so I asked a question. Why is that scummy?

Cause you're trying to keep things in RVS

I voted you, said "real vote", and not only did you not respond but you talked to someone about their username.

You're not here to scumhunt.

What was I supposed to say about your vote on me? "Oh no don't vote me please"?

It really wasn't backed up by any explanation so I didn't really care to talk about it. Especially since it looked like just a garden-variety OMGUS. It's just boring and I waited for something more.

Anyhow now that you ARE discussing, I am also discussing. And I have to say that your accusation of me not gettong the game out of RVS is completely baseless. My vote on you has gotten us to have this definitely NOT RVS back and forth.

Anyway, I keep my vote on BB.

[DragonEater70]

The only counter is arguably they're town hunting, but that comes from vibes and analysis not proactivity and asking questions.

I just wanna say I woud be proactive and asking questions if there was anything to question. When I made those posts the only content was:

• pure rvs.
  
• My own content.
  
• an OMGUS vote on me which I handwaved as being scummy and forgot about.
  
• something about Egix which I did engage with, though probably not to the full extent I should have.

So I am not sure what I was supposed to interact with?
Anyhow now there's more activity so let's go.

I'm leaning away from an Egix vote, the question was just to understand what their post was about. I wasn't entirely sure who to vote, especially not the guy who found himself at E-2

So, you're telling me you don't have any idea whatsoever, not even an inkling, of who might be town or scum right now?

[DragonEater70]

Idk why (probably the green avatars) but I keep confusing Leek and Snivy in my head when trying to form read on them.
Well I figured it out now, I think.
So I have a slight townread on Leek because even though I disagree that it's scum indicative to E-2 on page 1, I can see the thought process behind it and it feels genuine.

@Chicago: How did you feel about being at E-2 so soon?

Hmmm. This

is

only my third game, but it is kind of weird, though I don't know how much attention people pay to RVS to know that it was putting me to E-2. If Egix96 was going for an early mislim and try to pass it off as a mistake ... I don't know, it doesn't seem like a smart scum play. Of course, it's not exactly a smart town play either, that's the kind of joke you pull as a second vote, a third vote is a bit suspicious. SmarzLeek's counter play is fairly standard. Of course, I'm still at E-3, so it's now two serious votes away from E-1, which is a position to be in one Day 1, certainly.

Are we out of RVS stage yet?

This, and the overall lack of decisiveness or even any kind of opinion in this post, is scummy.

VOTE: Chicago

The object itself, the eponymous 'Chicago Typewriter' is a classic. Just to clarify.

Thanks!

[DragonEater70]

What you described there was reactivity, not proactivity.

Also, there's nothing to question but you generated a whole spiel on BBMolla when it came to your #13? What you're saying and what you're doing don't marry up.

My vote stays on Dragon for now. I'd encourage more to vote here as well.

Fair point.

Sorry, but I didn't fully understand this question/statement. Care to explain? (I genuinely don't understand)

I mean, you are welcome to vote me, I don't care much.

[DragonEater70]

What happened to 'My vote stays on BBMolla'?

ninja'd:

In reference to the blue text:

You say that there is nothing for you to question, but in your post 13 you managed to conjure up a whole-ass argument against BBMolla and justify a vote against them. You've since abandoned the wagon for what feels like very tenuous reasoning after committing to it and seeming to scumread BBMolla which feels like you're performatively aligning to counter what we're saying about your proactivity in scumhunting.

My initial push on BB was based on some very, very thin suspicion. The "whole case" I had built was literally that they placed their RVS vote on the perfect person to blend in. I never intended to push a lim based on this case, just to use it as a lever out of RVS.

Here's the context for when I said my vote will remain on BB

Imagine you're Egix, you're a Semi Experienced player. You know you're playing with newbies, some of them total newbies. You put a person at E-2, at a range where two newbies could hammer someone this early, either accidentally or not realizing they shouldn't do it this early.

Maybe scum!Egix is counting on that? E-2 isn't "as bad" as E-1, and Egix would have clean hands.

I think you're reading into this way too much, I've been put at E-2 on page 1 before by a town player. But I don't think you reading too much into it is necessarily scummy? Especially considering the fact that I'd just done something similar with voting someone for an inconspicuous page 1 vote. So I guess you might have a point after all?

Eh, if my wagon on BB doesn't gain traction, I might change to Egix just to see how they react.

VOTE: ChicagoTypewriter

You are obsolete.

Also, does

no one

on this site appreciate a classic? smh.

Just outta curiosity, are you saying that you are a classic? That your name is? Or...?

this is scum choo choo

The heck? I sincerely have no idea what they mean, so I asked a question. Why is that scummy?

You put a person at E-2, at a range where two newbies could hammer someone this early, either accidentally or not realizing they shouldn't do it this early.

There's a section on this topic in the OPs. The chance of this actually happening is less likely than you think.

Yeah that's true actually, so I am gonna keep my vote on BB either way right now.

I wasn't saying that I am committing to BB, but that I see no reason to switch to Egix and therefore not switching.

Then, I did find a reason to switch to Chicago. And it wasn't a thin, RVS reason. I sincerely believe that Chicago is either actively avoiding expressing a concrete opinion, or is not really engaged in the game, and I want to push that.

The issue I have is that you're trying to take credit for ending RVS early, when to be honest everyone was talking about Chicago being at E-2 before this exhange between you and BBMolla heated up - and that you're trying to claim ownership of pushing us out of RVS feels like a performative attempt to score townpoints.

Idk what you're talking about, I made a case against BB before Leek made a case against Egix. I think even before Egix put Chicago at E-2.
Also, idk why everything I do is "performative". If scum!me wanted to get town points, it wouldn't be performative, it would be very sincere.

[DragonEater70]

Delta very good entrance, towny truth seeking.
Despite delta's attacks, dragoneater imo had a good entrance too.

i feel like dragon entered the game with chill, towny chill

why not lurk? dragon is trying to stir up the discussion a bit, and their first posts feel relaxed

Remember, scum's worst dream is getting spotlight in d1. So they're super careful. Gauging reactions, not chilling.


KIND REMINDER that Bazuf has only one post so far. Bazuf, elaborate on recent posts or I'll get you limmed.


I like Chicago's Typewriter "y'all dumb" answer. Scum is less likely to put themselves in opposition to town so early in such way. Scum would be "I can't call them dumb so early, I need to survive til the end of the game".

BB ballsy calling someone scum and doubling down. I like it.

I'd look at lurkers right now. Bezuf and KKFanClub.

KKFanClub after their random vote made a really careful post. Nothing to add from themselves.

Delta n others: I understand your arguments regarding Egix and their E-2 earliness. Maybe truly it is a NAI.

I didn't fully read your post, will read it more in depth later, but do you basically townread everyone except the lurkers? Or am I missing someone?
edit: nvm you are voting Egix right? Am dumb.

[DragonEater70]

set up a second vote on me to bait a reaction for DragonEater70 to scumread

I'm honestly confused about this because I've never scumread anyone based on votes on you? Unless you mean scumreading Egix which Leek did first.

[DragonEater70]

DragonEater70 voted on BBmolla at post 13, and while unclear if it was RVS or not (57 implies it is), it's definitely not by post 27, being referred to as a 'wagon'.

1. It was half-RVS.
2. There's such a thing as wagons in RVS? Maybe I used the wrong terminology? I was definitely NOT intending to lim BB, I was intending to generate content and reactions. I know you guys are gonna say "this sounds so performative, if you really wanted content and reactions then why are you not commenting on anything but just reacting defensively?" but that's kinda how I play? I just bait a reaction and then forget about it.

Anyhow, it seems I've dug myself into quite a soup, and I'm not quite focused. I will read the game tomorrow, beginning to end, and see if I can contribute some more reads (I really don't know what's so bad about having a vibe read on Delta but whatever). Meantime, goodnight!

[DragonEater70]

set up a second vote on me to bait a reaction for DragonEater70 to scumread

I'm honestly confused about this because I've never scumread anyone based on votes on you? Unless you mean scumreading Egix which Leek did first.

My

reaction

. Remember this?

This, and the overall lack of decisiveness or even any kind of opinion in this post, is scummy.

VOTE: Chicago

How in the seventh hell do you think that I set up your undecisive reaction? I had no way to know you'll react like that, I had no way to know you would even be asked this question. This theory makes zero fucking sense.

[DragonEater70]

Hi, catching up as promised.

He acknowledges it was a thin (this is why I used the term half baked) vote but there's nothing to indicate no reasoning. I think the disconnect here is that it's clearly a really tenuous (probably bad) vote, bu that doesn't trend scum this early in the game and certainly he hasn't been inconsistent about it. But really, I'm reading 57 and I don't see a reason to think that he's backtracking and claiming an RVS vote.

At the time of 27, Dragon's not going to go "by the way, this vote is basically just reaction fodder and based on a really flimsy case" because then he definitely won't get the traction OR reaction that he wanted

. You are correct that he's voted twice on flimsy contexts but I don't really care about either of them because it just looks like he's trying to find a foothold in the game on Page 2.

THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING ME.

camel - make a list of players and your thoughts about them, one or two sentences each person

you seem pretty up to date with the thread, cause you chime in regularly

should be an easy task for you

oh boy I feel like I'm filling out a survey

1. DragonEater70
- I'm leaning towards scum (unvoted because of the E-1) through the reasons I described day 1. Even though Dragon started to give reasoning for the things he did I'm thinking that the late elaborations would be something that scum does.
2. Bazuf
- Can't tell, this guy hasn't said a WORD so I will assume scum.
3. KatyKimFanClub
- Probably scum too, but less than dragon since I can imagine Katy as just a really pissed off townie.
4. SzmarzLeek
- Ngl I thought leek was scum at first but now I'm more in the middle with you. You're not particularly towny or scummy in my eyes.
5. camelCasedSnivy
-

Scum. Scum. Scum.

6. ChicagoTypewriter
- Boy this guy is all over the place. I would say townie at first but now I'm leaning more scum because his posts are mainly about himself.
7. Egix96
- I don't think Egix has talked in a while, but probably townie based on the early posts.
8. Deltabreedy
- Townie because delta is the one asking all the questions to the ones being wagoned.
9. BBmolla
- Paid attention to BB the least recently and I'm completely blank on reads for them too.

Why is Katy scum?
Do you really not have a read on Leek? I thought their content was very alignment indicative.
Agreed on Delta even though he's painfully wrong with his reads.

So Bazuf is scum for not talking but Egix is town for not talking?

Similarly, why is Deltabreedy town for leading a wagon on Dragon. Don't you think mafia would have wildly misplayed the game if the team was just me and Dragon?

Why do you suspect me?

This game only has two mafia, so I'd like for you to narrow down your reads a little. Who do you think is the most likely mafia pair?

I like this post and I like Katy for town.

Perfect page by KFC.

Agreed.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'sheeping'

Sheeping = following someone else's opinion

I don't actually like most of Egix's posts. It feels like mostly random commentary and information rather than any real attempt to engage with the game and with the other players. Like they are a spectator to the game and not an active player. This is weird.

Like even this post is not REALLY engaging, I think?

@Everyone: What would be the motivation for Town!Katy to shut down this discussion? Me suspecting them is only going to continue - why not engage and nip it in the bud? I don't see why Town!Katy would disengage in this way specifically. It reads to me more like Scum!Katy evading the fight and hoping that people just don't put much credence in it.

It's like:

Spoiler: quotes

Why are you defending Dragon?

29

I don't really think there's much to respond to from Dragon here. Like he voted for BBmolla (I think this qualifies as the first real vote, however tenuous the reasoning) in post 13. And then he gets OMGUS'd. Like, does he really need to respond here and is not responding scummy? He already gave his read on BBmolla and is voting for him. His interactions with ChicagoTypewriter seem fine to me in the first place.

31

I don't buy the reasoning that Dragon is trying to keep things in RVS. I am a little charitable here towards BBmolla (maybe they're a little trigger happy) since their vote on BBmolla and subsequent OMGUS is arguably the impetus that took us out of RVS.

44

Dragon's reasoning in 44 is sort of what I'm talking about. I'm not sure there's a reasonable response as town to a page 1 "real vote" OMGUS.

34

Once again, I'm not sure about the claim that Dragon is not scumhunting.

I really don't like camel's vote on Dragon in 51.

As for 86 I feel like Dragon has been pretty consistent with what was serious and what wasn't? He obviously wasn't being genuine with the read on BB, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's scum. He might just be town throwing out half baked takes to try to get something going.

All this being said, I'm pretty neutral on Dragon. I think we're better suited looking at Bazuf or Camel for their votes on Dragon.

So again, why are you defending Dragon?

For context I will keep asking until you actually answer the question.

So again, why are you defending Dragon?

Because I thought a lot of the reads against him were somewhat bogus? I feel like my defenses of Dragon speak for themselves no?
Do you seriously think it's Me/Dragon?

By the way, I struggle to believe you are trying to meaningful interact with me after posts 96 and 97 considering I literally wrote up in 94 why I didn't scumread Dragon.

I hope other people in this game see 96 and 97 in relation to 94 because it's pretty transparent you didn't read the post or you did and chose to ignore it.

You're defending Dragon whilst trying to say you don't town or scumread them.

All I've done is ask why.

- You ask KKFC a question
- He answers it, but his answer was not what you wanted to see
- So you ask him again
- KKFC adds a point of clarification (99)
- You still don't accept his response as being a satisfactory one

As far as I understand.

Now, to answer the whole question of whether this is tvt/tvs/etc... On a ~vibes~ level I would say this feels like TvT, but if one of you two were scum and I had to guess which one, I would say Delta because it kiiiinda feels like they are doing the whole thing where the "bad cop" in a crime show keeps on questioning the suspect until they give the ""right"" answer.

I mean, I guess there's some opinion hear but it mostly feels like Information Instead Of Analysis.

Everyone else in this game feel free to ask my questions, for my reads, etc. This vote will remain here until one of us gets voted or dies though

Thoughts on Egix? Thoughts on Chicago? (btw I am going to make a whole seperate post after this one for my own [updated] thoughts on Chicago)

am I in kindergarten

It would appear that way.

[DragonEater70]

the worst thing is, I consider both Delta and KKFC towny

if I'm right, this is a perfect situation for scum, two stubborn townies who hate each other already, scum can just hide in lair and wait for town to devour itself, adding fuel to the fire

you have to have an open mind and at least not lock your vote forever

meanwhile we haven't heard from Dragon (losing some steam?) and Bazuf plus we have Camel who has terrible posts

I agree, Delta and Katy are both townie.

[DragonEater70]

Time for a quick Chicago ISO:

39 - Still don't like this post, still think it feels like intentional lack of opinion.

53 - I get a slight townie vibe from their response to the attack.

In short, DragonEater has voted twice seriously at this point, both on flimsy pretexts. I see a very good reason to scumread DragonEater70.

I feel this is either misunderstanding the whole point of trying to get out of RVS (as Katy explained above), or is intentionally misrepresenting what I did. Yeah it was early, there was barely any real content, so I did in fact vote based on flimsy reasoning. That's how the game normally works. I think it's also weird NOT to engage but just to wait (like Chicago was doing) because that will get you nowhere.

How in the seventh hell do you think that I set up your undecisive reaction? I had no way to know you'll react like that, I had no way to know you would even be asked this question. This theory makes zero fucking sense.

Why so defensive? Pretty sure I said I would never think such a thing.

This also feels quite disingenuous considering their previous post where they justified the "thing they would never think of":

set up a second vote on me to bait a reaction for DragonEater70 to scumread

I'm honestly confused about this because I've never scumread anyone based on votes on you? Unless you mean scumreading Egix which Leek did first.

My

reaction

. Remember this?

This, and the overall lack of decisiveness or even any kind of opinion in this post, is scummy.

VOTE: Chicago

I wouldn't say that this is certainly tvs; no, but I'm more null/slight town-reading Deltabreedy right now and scum-reading KatyKimFanClub. I'm also kind of wondering where DragonEater70 has been for this conversation, I'd like his input as well.

I think it's TvT, if you wanna know.

I just realized I really hate this style of responding to each individual post, so I am gonna change style:
Basically, maybe I am tunnel visioning but most of Chicago's posts feel either in bad faith, or like they lack interest in the discussion, which is actually a very weird mix and not necessarily scummy, but definitely now townie (these traits aren't individually townie, you know). Here's some examples:

Spoiler:

First, this weird theory that doesn't make any sense unless you think of it as being made in bad faith:

Oh, also, I know this isn't the best coming from me, but, ah @KatyKimFanClub? Would you mind interacting with the rest of us? You see, you have all of four posts right now. We have you voting for me, defending your vote for me, unvoting for me, and then defending the DragonEater70 pileup.

Now, a suspicious man might think you were lurking; and perhaps you only set up a second vote on me to bait a reaction for DragonEater70 to scumread; perhaps seeing the two of you as a scumpair. Of course, I'm not a suspicious man and I would never think such a thing.

There's absolutely no way that I could've planned Katy's second vote on Chicago becoming E-2. It makes zero sense.

Then, these:

Yeah I mean I have no clue why how people are on this DragonEater bandwagon. Like it's been two days and three pages and we think he's scum because he asked a question in RVS? Why don't we mull things over some more?

I can't put my finger on it but something about this post seems scum.

Did I say anything in my summary post that was incorrect?

How is my saying that the Dragon bandwagon is bad not an original thought?

So, is this a summary or is this an original thought?

So, question for the group - Deltabreedy vs KatyKimFanClub - is this town v. town or scum v. town?

It just feels like throwing shade for the sake of throwing shade, you know? Like how can you even read either Delta or Katy as scummy here? And Chicago never even explains why he suspected Katy in the first place, only that he doesn't like a

later

post (94). Also, is it just me or is he continuing to be extremely indecisive in everything except his tunnel on me? Like why ask town if it's TvT or TvS instead of making up your own mind? Why say something like this:

Deltabreedy, right now, is behaving as either a town trying to scumhunt someone who's shady or a scum who has a townie with a mistake in his sight. Either explanation works, this isn't town-unique behavior; but there's nothing that makes me think he's scum either.

I just think Chicago is EXTREMELY scummy here and I don't understand how can no one else see this.

So yeah I am definitely leaving my vote on Chicago.