Title Fairy Policy Changes

A subforum entirely dedicated to the discussion of titles. The title fairy has carte blanche in this subforum.
Oman
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:22 pm

Over the last few years I've noticed the site changing and evolving, and I've noticed Title Fairy remained relatively stable during that shift. For that reason, (and because a regime change is as good a break as any) I want to review Title Policy from the ground up. Note: I'm not saying that Thok did anything wrong, or that there is a problem with it staying as it is, I just want to make sure if it stays it's because it's relevant.

Once I think I've gathered a general idea on what people want, and which direction I intend to go, I'll be talking to mith about implementing them, so please treat this with a degree of seriousness.

To facilitate discussion I have a few questions:

1. What do you think titles should be? Should they be an expression of each user's individuality? A reward for long standing Scummers who have been active in the community? An entitlement after x years/posts/games?

2. What do you think the Title Fairy should be? A passive administrator to update the first page only? A moderator to ensure a sense of order in thread and titles? A way to make sure crap titles don't get through by his own judgment as an appointed official?

3. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title recipients? 100 posts is still okay? 1 completed game? 1 year on site? No requirements?

4. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title suggesters? One suggestion/week? No limit? Bannings from Title Fairy on repeated insulting titles?

5. Should titles be on for the life of the account? Expand on what you feel to appropriate length of time before someone's title would be changed.

6. Should titles be suggest by the community and then "accepted" by the person-in-question (for want of a better term), or should they be thrust upon them regardless of their thoughts on it? Of course, this links with "title fairy moderation of titles" as above.

7. What do you see the Title Fairy Thread as? A spam thread? Srs Title Business? A place where you can post whatever without fear of moderation/incurring wrath?

8. What should a title be given for? Mafia games? Scumchat? GD?

9. Where do you want it? Site Ideas, Mafia Discussion, GD?

10. Round it out with anything else you have to add.


Also Reference:
Are Titles Getting Too Ubiquitous? - TSQ
Should Titles Only be for Mafia Games - Split from TF
move 'Title Fairy' thread out of Site Ideas - Dani Banani
Title Fairy Discussion - Elias_the_thief


Thanks for your time with this, it's much appreciated. I also want to let you know if you're not happy with posting here, feel free to PM me your answers if that's an easier choice.

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Your New Fairy.
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shaft.ed
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:44 pm

1. Titles should partially be a way of informally cataloging something interesting that happened to or because of a member of the site. And partially as a badge of honor that the recipient is somehow a significant member of the community.

2. The Title Fair is "a way to make sure crap titles don't get through by his own judgment as an appointed official."

3. I don't see a need for arbitrary requirements. If 2 is functioning, criteria would be redundant.

4. I'd say some sort of punishment as far as thread/forum banning for obvious infractions. Many of us have gotten carried away joking around in the Title threads. It's easy for the GD to spill into here. Honestly this should all be at the discretion of the Title Fairy because all that spamming the thread does is make more BS for them to wade through to find actual nominations. Bad behavior falls under breaking site rules and should be handled appropriately for such infractions.

5. Titles should be removed at the request of the user and changed at their request if given permission through the Title Fairy.

6. No one should be given a title they do not want.

7. I currently treat the Title Fairy thread as I would any thread in the GD. So I think joking around in it is acceptable as long as it doesn't get offensive. That can and should be changed if the Title Fairy so desires it to be.

8. Titles should be given for whatever they want to be. Titles just happen. If it works it works.

9. I like it in Site Ideas because it's easy to see if people are posting to it.

Yeah I like a loving dictator approach to this.

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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:03 pm

Oman wrote:
1. What do you think titles should be? Should they be an expression of each user's individuality? A reward for long standing Scummers who have been active in the community? An entitlement after x years/posts/games?

I don't feel that they should be an entitlement. They should be a witty, humorous or insightful reflection of a person's individual personality or a reference to a defining moment in that person's M-S "career".

2. What do you think the Title Fairy should be? A passive administrator to update the first page only? A moderator to ensure a sense of order in thread and titles? A way to make sure crap titles don't get through by his own judgment as an appointed official?

2 and 3. The Title Fairy needs to be the gatekeeper, both cleaning up the thread and making sure that the really terrible titles don't get through.

3. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title recipients? 100 posts is still okay? 1 completed game? 1 year on site? No requirements?

I think we could safely bump it up to 500 posts. Heck, I was past that line within 3 months of being on this site. I think a year's too long, but I'll let those with titles be the judge of that.

4. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title suggesters? One suggestion/week? No limit? Bannings from Title Fairy on repeated insulting titles?

I don't like putting a limit on it, since I see it as a sort of fun mini-game, but I do think that excessive bad titling should result in a tempban.

5. Should titles be on for the life of the account? Expand on what you feel to appropriate length of time before someone's title would be changed.

I think they should be on the account until that person's history on the site either makes the original title seem like a non sequitur or a better title comes along.

6. Should titles be suggest by the community and then "accepted" by the person-in-question (for want of a better term), or should they be thrust upon them regardless of their thoughts on it? Of course, this links with "title fairy moderation of titles" as above.

Absolutely should be accepted - otherwise, you've got title rape. And there's nothing funny about title rape.

7. What do you see the Title Fairy Thread as? A spam thread? Srs Title Business? A place where you can post whatever without fear of moderation/incurring wrath?

Not really any of the above. It's a lighthearted place for reflection on the unique personalities that post on this site. Too much spamminess or too much seriousness would be counterproductive.

8. What should a title be given for? Mafia games? Scumchat? GD?

I'd say not scumchat because it's not something that has permanence on the site. The other two, sure. Like it or not, GD has a huge impact on how this site functions as a community.

9. Where do you want it? Site Ideas, Mafia Discussion, GD?

I like it where it is, in site ideas. If it was in GD, people would tend to more casually self-nominate.

10. Round it out with anything else you have to add.

So far, I like what you're doing with it. Just try to strike a good balance between fun and on-topic.
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:09 pm

1. Titles should be an expression of the wearer's individuality. They are certainly not an entitlement, for long-standing scummers or otherwise. If you want a title, get noticed (and not for "hey I don't have a title yet").

2. The Title Fairy should be a passive administrator, willing to suggest better titles if the nominated one isn't up to personal par but only ready to veto blatantly harmful titles. *griping about KittyMo's title goes here*

3. 100 game posts is fine. People who don't have 100 posts are rarely worthy of a title. Not everyone who has 100 posts gets a title anyway. And the base requirement keeps random newbies from showing up expecting something.

4. I don't think a limit is necessary. The people who make spammy or insulting title nominations are the same people who make spammy or insulting posts in GD, etc.; they should therefore already be "dealt with".

5. Removing titles after a certain length of time seems like an unnecessary duty, as the title isn't hurting anyone on an inactive account and people are still likely to say "oh that title has already been done". Removing titles after bans, etc. would be considerable.

6. The person who has to wear the title should have to accept it. (not referring to JDodge's brand of ACCEPT IT)

7. It's a place to suggest titles. If discussion of some kind arises out of it, that's no different from your average GD topic. If some of that "discussion" is utter garbage and needs to be split into a mysterious garbage thread invisible to the ordinary user, that's no different either.

8. Titles should be given for stuff that happens onsite. Everyone visits mafiascum. Not everyone visits scumchat. I would be fine with GD-based titles.

9. I like the title thread in Site Ideas simply because n00bs likely won't look here and ask for a title.

10. The Title Fairy was chosen for a reason and theoretically can do what they want within mith's good graces. This topic was a thoughtful idea.
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:47 pm

1. The first one--nobody is entitled to a title if you can't think of anything that stands out that it might deserve one for.

2. That depends on how strong the title fairy's views correlate with mine, obv.

3. 4 months or so? I think that the posting requirement is stupid; I have no problem with a GDer or Mish Masher getting a title. At the same time, I'm not wild about someone getting a playstyle-related title before it's even old enough to be fixed into a playstyle.

4. Why would there be a limit? Having said that, I think the sort of person who could get itself banned from the title fairy thread would deserve it.

5. Nah. Change it when something better comes along.

6. The person getting the title should always have the right to a veto, as well as the right to have its title changed back to "Mafia Scum" afterward.

7. I see titles as fairly serious business. Y'know, as serious as you can get when titles come from quirks and funny mishaps and shit.

8. Quirks and funny mishaps and shit? I don't really care where they come from. I do think that if ScumChat in-jokes are meaningful enough to be worth a title, they should be meaningful enough to have some grip on the forums themselves.

9. Uh, Site Ideas is fine.

10. First off, the name puns are fucking stupid. All of them. Yes, we know Xtoxm's screen name ends in "oxm." Yes, we know that Nabakov is named after a famous author, only misspelled and repeated a second time. Yes, Shafted has a period in the middle of his name. Oh my god, Vi's name is spelled V-I. Why do we seriously need to be reminded of people's screen names in the space right under their screen names? Frankly, I'd like it if those stupid puns were ripped out of their titles retroactively.

I forget what I was going to say second, but I think it was a shout-out to the "here is a quirk of this person that might be title worthy; let us all try to come up with a witty-sounding spin on it and drop it if we can't" approach.

Third, the hat in my scummie icon would look better with a big pink feather in it.
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:08 pm

I agree with shafted.

And 500+ posts in three months is heavy activity, Neto. I think 'time as an active member' and 'familiarity to other scummers' are each more significant measures of whether an account ought to have a title than 'post count.' (And the appropriateness of a given title is an even bigger factor.) For reference, Polarboy and Sugar, former Title Fairies , only have 358 and 229 game posts so far.
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:16 pm

Fair enough. Like I said, I'm flexible - that's the area that I have the least concern over. As far as PolarBoy and Sugar go, though, from the looks of things, they were from the era during which games were over in less than 20 pages. The level of expected activity on this site has gone up dramatically since then.
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:21 pm

shaft.ed wrote:1. Titles should partially be a way of informally cataloging something interesting that happened to or because of a member of the site. And partially as a badge of honor that the recipient is somehow a significant member of the community.

2. The Title Fairy is "a way to make sure crap titles don't get through by his own judgment as an appointed official."
I could not have said these two better.

3. Between 1 and 3 games on site seems fine with me.

4. TF should be free to ignore any and all 'insulting' titles from people who continually suggest them. They should also have editing powers on the thread to reduce spam. Any problems above and beyond that probably needs mith's interference.

5. They can be removed anytime the recipient requests, and can change as needed, but probably not more than twice a year. If it has to change more often than that, it probably wasn't a very good title to begin with.

6. Recipients should have carte blanche to refuse titles, no reasoning necessary. Anyone badgering people to accept them should see #4.

7. I currently treat the Title Fairy thread as I would any thread in the GD. So I think joking around in it is acceptable as long as it doesn't get offensive. That can and should be changed if the Title Fairy so desires it to be.

8. I vastly prefer titles that have to do with behavior on the site; scumchat/IRC behavior deserves to be recognized there, not here. Name-based or avatar-based titles have to be exceptionally clever to make me approve of them.

9. Not picky, but not MD. News? Site Ideas seems fine.
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:43 pm

Ether wrote:Yes, Shafted has a period in the middle of his name.
I don't know how I avoided getting a title related to menstruation to be honest.

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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:12 pm

I think the Title Fairy is unneccessary, and adding the ability for users to set their own titles at their own behest upon reaching some arbitrary level of contribution to the site would be a much better way of dealing with the issue.
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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:24 pm

shaft.ed wrote:
Ether wrote:Yes, Shafted has a period in the middle of his name.
I don't know how I avoided getting a title related to menstruation to be honest.


Too easy, especially given the username "shaft.ed'
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:13 am

Ether wrote:I forget what I was going to say second, but I think it was a shout-out to the "here is a quirk of this person that might be title worthy; let us all try to come up with a witty-sounding spin on it and drop it if we can't" approach.
Update: that wasn't the second thing at all. It's that when someone has a great new gimmick, people should wait two weeks or so and see if it can stick even that long. I think a lot of title nominations jump the gun. (Titles for funny things in completed games are a different story, of course.)
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:20 am

If we didnt have scumchat, I wouldnt be Oh, Prozac. It should be included. Otherwise Im leacing the site and it would be Omans fault.

Also more biased opinions on Oman later.

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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:34 am

Haven't read others' opinions yet, but here's mine:
1. Titles are a way to show what a scummer is recognized as by the community. Someone with a title should be well-known, and most other well-known scummers should know as soon as they see the title what it means.

2. The Title Fairy should be the final judge of all titles and even come up with some of his own. If a title is dumb, the Title Fairy should be able to deny it. If there is debate on which of multiple titles (Vi) is best, it should be up to the Title Fairy what is used.

3. 100 posts, as someone said before, is too easily attained. I like your 1 year on site suggestion.

4. I think this can balance itself. If a user is suggesting titles for the sake of suggesting titles, we'll all know it and stop taking them seriously. Insulting titles can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis (By the way, I'd say both the Title Fairy and Mith have the power to decide how to handle things like bans from suggesting titles)

5. If a title no longer applies, it should be removed. If a better one comes up, it should be used instead. These situations are probably pretty rare though.

6. Titles should be accepted by the user before being used.

7. It should be mostly serious, but that doesn't mean an occasional joke or two is ban-worthy or anything like that. You can have fun in a serious place.

8. A title should come from anything that builds a player's reputation, whether that's GD, mafia, scumchat, meets, or whatever else.

9. Site Ideas is fine IMO. That's where I've gotten used to seeing it. I could understand a Sticky'd GD thread though.
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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:25 am

Answering this before I read others' opinions. I'm a DB like that.

Seriously, I have opinions and don't want them changed before I post them. My opinions may change after reading the thread.

1. What do you think titles should be? Should they be an expression of each user's individuality? A reward for long standing Scummers who have been active in the community? An entitlement after x years/posts/games?

Titles should be twofold: 1) Changed by incremental posts (go up to 5k+), and 2) Modified by the userbase. Essentially, keep it the same as it is, but add more "generic" titles as people get to certain post numbers.

2. What do you think the Title Fairy should be? A passive administrator to update the first page only? A moderator to ensure a sense of order in thread and titles? A way to make sure crap titles don't get through by his own judgment as an appointed official?

Mostly 1, but a bit of 2. There are times the thread goes crazy, and the TF should step in, but let the thread flow.

3. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title recipients? 100 posts is still okay? 1 completed game? 1 year on site? No requirements?

Personally, I like no requirements. If people are okay with giving the title, why does it matter how many posts the player has? My biggest complaint of the 100+ rule was for Mish Mash players whose posts didn't have an official count.

4. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title suggesters? One suggestion/week? No limit? Bannings from Title Fairy on repeated insulting titles?

No limit, but ban for problem users.

5. Should titles be on for the life of the account? Expand on what you feel to appropriate length of time before someone's title would be changed.

Life, but allow the title to be removed (by user choice) or changed (by thread choice).

6. Should titles be suggest by the community and then "accepted" by the person-in-question (for want of a better term), or should they be thrust upon them regardless of their thoughts on it? Of course, this links with "title fairy moderation of titles" as above.

It should always be the final choice of the user the title is for.

7. What do you see the Title Fairy Thread as? A spam thread? Srs Title Business? A place where you can post whatever without fear of moderation/incurring wrath?

Mostly Title Business, but definitely not held down that tightly.

8. What should a title be given for? Mafia games? Scumchat? GD?

Anything. Period.

9. Where do you want it? Site Ideas, Mafia Discussion, GD?

Want what? The thread or the title? Thread: General Discussion; Title: Anywhere.
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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:12 am

1. Yes to Second and Third. No to Fourth.

Answer to First is Simply if someone does something that stands out.

2. A way to make sure crap titles don't get through by his own judgment as an appointed official.

3. Either move it up to Half a year (IMO, # of posts can be worthless, and this shows they have actually been around more than 100 posts) or take it all off.

4. With the exception of the obvious No swears in the titles (because this IS a 13+ site) and such, I'd say not posting 5 titles in one post is good enough.

5. Life, but if someone wats to remove it, they should message mith OR jeep, AND NOT the current Title Fairy (no offense Oman).

6. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS give the person it's nominated for the final choice. This is non-negotiable.

7. A place to place titles, and to joke around about them without getting uot of hand.

8. Anyothing that makes a Player stand out.

9. Title Thread should get Stickied in GD. Otherwise, the titles stay where they are.

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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:23 am

I don't have nearly enough mental energy to discuss this, but my quick suggestion is that you suspend all nominations until a conclusion is reached ITT.
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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:07 pm

5. Should titles be on for the life of the account? Expand on what you feel to appropriate length of time before someone's title would be changed.


When it's no longer relevant due to either playstyle change, better title coming along or the person doesn't want it.

The rest I don't feel that strongly about except I don't like the idea of TitleFairy being in GD

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Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:27 pm

Oman wrote:
8. What should a title be given for? Mafia games? Scumchat? GD?


Netopalis wrote:I'd say not scumchat because it's not something that has permanence on the site. The other two, sure. Like it or not, GD has a huge impact on how this site functions as a community.


What do you mean by scumchat doesn't have permanence on the site?

My title came from one crazy a day that just so happened to come from scumchat.
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Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:33 pm

I'd agree with Neto herem scum chat isn't really part of the MS proper, nor is the general population ever exposed to it.
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Post Post #20  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:39 pm

How many threads were made to argue against scumchat spilling over into GD?
I'd have to say scumchat is just as much a part of MS as mish mash is. The majority of scummers don't spend any any amount of time there either.
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Post Post #21  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:48 pm

1. What do you think titles should be? Should they be an expression of each user's individuality? A reward for long standing Scummers who have been active in the community? An entitlement after x years/posts/games? I think it should be a combination of individuality and a reward for long standing scummers. I don't think it's an entitlement - if you're here for years but don't leave an impact on the community, you don't deserve a title.

2. What do you think the Title Fairy should be? A passive administrator to update the first page only? A moderator to ensure a sense of order in thread and titles? A way to make sure crap titles don't get through by his own judgment as an appointed official? I like a moderator.

3. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title recipients? 100 posts is still okay? 1 completed game? 1 year on site? No requirements? I think 1 year on the site might be appropriate, but I'm sure others will disagree with me. 100 posts is WAY too little, as is 1 completed game. Maybe 1000 posts?

4. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title suggesters? One suggestion/week? No limit? Bannings from Title Fairy on repeated insulting titles? No limit, but ban-worthy offenses.

5. Should titles be on for the life of the account? Expand on what you feel to appropriate length of time before someone's title would be changed. I think if you earn a title, you've earned a title and it should stay unless a new one is nominated or the title holder gets tired of it.

6. Should titles be suggest by the community and then "accepted" by the person-in-question (for want of a better term), or should they be thrust upon them regardless of their thoughts on it? Of course, this links with "title fairy moderation of titles" as above. They must accept it.

7. What do you see the Title Fairy Thread as? A spam thread? Srs Title Business? A place where you can post whatever without fear of moderation/incurring wrath? Uh... I don't even know what this question fucking means.

8. What should a title be given for? Mafia games? Scumchat? GD? I would say either a strong component of someone's meta (in rare cases) or reflective of their GD/scumchat personality.

9. Where do you want it? Site Ideas, Mafia Discussion, GD? GD. It's not a site idea, and it's not specifically related to Mafia. Titles are strictly an OOC concept.

10. Round it out with anything else you have to add. Vaginaboob.

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Post Post #22  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:01 pm

I'm not sure that's exactly true. Scumchat often spills over to GD, Title things, and certain mafia games. Hell even mishmash

Cybele wrote:How many threads were made to argue against scumchat spilling over into GD?
I'd have to say scumchat is just as much a part of MS as mish mash is. The majority of scummers don't spend any any amount of time there either.


this is very true. most don't venture there but its still there and will always be there.
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Post Post #23  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:09 pm

Cayke: I think the important distinction is the permanence of words on the forum - we can link to a post made on the forum, but we can't link to a joke made in scumchat.
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Post Post #24  (ISO)  » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:15 pm

crywolf20084 wrote:I'm not sure that's exactly true. Scumchat often spills over to GD, Title things, and certain mafia games. Hell even mishmash

Cybele wrote:How many threads were made to argue against scumchat spilling over into GD?
I'd have to say scumchat is just as much a part of MS as mish mash is. The majority of scummers don't spend any any amount of time there either.


this is very true. most don't venture there but its still there and will always be there.


Scumchat only pours into game from duscussions, and scumchat mafia (There was a scumchat mafia that made it through the queue, I think).

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