Title Fairy Policy Changes

A subforum entirely dedicated to the discussion of titles. The title fairy has carte blanche in this subforum.
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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:16 am

Post by Cybele »

Netopalis wrote:Cayke: I think the important distinction is the permanence of words on the forum - we can link to a post made on the forum, but we can't link to a joke made in scumchat.
Chatlogs.
Sure, the chat's a bit more impermanent, but that doesn't mean it's no longer part of the Mafiascum shared experience.
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:16 am

Post by Konowa »

Post the joke on the forum, then you can link to it.
Problem solved.
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:23 am

Post by crywolf20084 »

animorpherv1 wrote:
crywolf20084 wrote:I'm not sure that's exactly true. Scumchat often spills over to GD, Title things, and certain mafia games. Hell even mishmash
Cybele wrote:How many threads were made to argue against scumchat spilling over into GD?
I'd have to say scumchat is just as much a part of MS as mish mash is. The majority of scummers don't spend any any amount of time there either.
this is very true. most don't venture there but its still there and will always be there.
Scumchat only pours into game from duscussions, and scumchat mafia (There was a scumchat mafia that made it through the queue, I think).
What i meant by mafia games is there is a group of "scumchatters" (6 i believe) in a current mafia game.
aim:gochat?roomname=ScumChat&Exchange=5

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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:05 am

Post by Korts »

Based on the player list I would guess it's this one.
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:58 am

Post by Porochaz »

Tech half the players on that list frequent scumchat enough for me to call them semi regular.
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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:12 pm

Post by Vi »

Korts wrote:I don't have nearly enough mental energy to discuss this, but my quick suggestion is that you suspend all nominations until a conclusion is reached ITT.
Is it really that serious? There are no nominations to suspend, anyway.
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:02 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

Ether wrote:
Ether wrote:I forget what I was going to say second, but I think it was a shout-out to the "here is a quirk of this person that might be title worthy; let us all try to come up with a witty-sounding spin on it and drop it if we can't" approach.
Update: that wasn't the second thing at all. It's that when someone has a great new gimmick, people should
wait
two weeks or so and see if it can stick even that long. I think a lot of title nominations jump the gun. (Titles for funny things in completed games are a different story, of course.)
I *really* am beginning to like this idea. [/downer]
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:54 pm

Post by Oman »

I was thinking about some sort of title review period. A month after a title is approved, a post is made "hey guys, what do we think of X title for Y?" just to check whether or not the title has had staying power over that month.

Any thoughts?
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:50 pm

Post by shaft.ed »

If you've got the time, energy and focus to keep up with it, sure.
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:04 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

Agree with ether and flay with regards to "jumping the gun." I think that might have a lot to do with the problem I started my thread about.

Also, Oman, thanks for the blast from the past with my brother's thread. I hadn't thought about that thread in a long while, and every time I see Elias's title I crack up. Now, on to business.
1. What do you think titles should be? Should they be an expression of each user's individuality? A reward for long standing Scummers who have been active in the community? An entitlement after x years/posts/games?
I think it's important to note that titles are NOT a reward, and they are NOT an entitlement (although literally I guess they are by a different definition of the word.) but rather something that showcases as users niche within the community, and their relation to the community. A title should be something that when we look at it, we say "Yup, thats "User X" alright."I hate to keep bringing myself up, but my title is a perfect example of this. So it Shaft.eds, so it KMDs new title.
2. What do you think the Title Fairy should be? A passive administrator to update the first page only? A moderator to ensure a sense of order in thread and titles? A way to make sure crap titles don't get through by his own judgment as an appointed official?
Oh please don't be a passive administrator! If you were, who would I yell "ABUSE OF POWER!!!" at. Seriously, title fairy thread benefited a lot from thoks "ABUSES OF POWER." You need to make sure the crap doesn't get through, and you need to make sure that the thread stays on topic. These are your responsibilities if you should choose to accept them. I would also like you to be more active with suggesting titles than thok was. The title fairy can work both ways, approving titles from the community and suggesting them to the community. The only problem with this is that you have to be able to accept it when the community doesnt like your title, and have some sort of non-variable metric for what constitutes acceptance. I think you're mature enough to handle that.
3. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title recipients? 100 posts is still okay? 1 completed game? 1 year on site? No requirements?
There was a discussion in the PHPBB3.0 topic that I think it really relevent. I would like some sort of system where we have more layers of titles, I think the system flay and I were discussing is all the way up to 1000 posts, with multiple layers of standard titles, with users being eligable for a custom one at around 500.
4. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title suggesters? One suggestion/week? No limit? Bannings from Title Fairy on repeated insulting titles?
I dont think there need to be restrictions on titles, if someone has 3 good titles, they should by all means be able to post them on the same day. That being said, what I don't like is walking into the thread and seeing that someone has posted 5 new title suggestions and they're all bad. I would support some sort of punishment for people who continually post bad titles, possibly the death penalty. What constitutes bad and continually is obviously up to you.
5. Should titles be on for the life of the account? Expand on what you feel to appropriate length of time before someone's title would be changed.
Titles should be left up until the account outlives them. That is, until the user decides that they are not representitive of them anymore, or the community thinks of a better one.
6. Should titles be suggest by the community and then "accepted" by the person-in-question (for want of a better term), or should they be thrust upon them regardless of their thoughts on it? Of course, this links with "title fairy moderation of titles" as above.
The poster-in-question should always have ultimate veto power over their title. This is the only check that is 100% against abusive and insulting titles that the poster feels go too far, because the title fairy probably cant research the whole situation for every title.
7. What do you see the Title Fairy Thread as? A spam thread? Srs Title Business? A place where you can post whatever without fear of moderation/incurring wrath?
I would like it to be a place of brainstorming. However, watching it in action has led me to believe that perhaps that wont happen without a little moderation.
8. What should a title be given for? Mafia games? Scumchat? GD?
Anything that is a relevent part of the posters personality. I mean, flay's title is even WIKI based, and its one of the best on the site.
9. Where do you want it? Site Ideas, Mafia Discussion, GD?
I like it where it is, and I think that in any of the other places it would be spammed more.
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:35 am

Post by MichelSableheart »

In my opinion, a title is a form of recognition.

This means first of all that the player should be known in the community, either because of a significant number of completed mafia games (at least 5, probably more. Perhaps something like having played mafia games with 50 unique individuals?), or because of exceptional activity over a large period of time (thinking at least a year) in one of the other sections of mafiascum (mishmash, mafia discussion, general discussion, scumchat).

Furthermore, the title should be something the player is recognized by. A title can be based on something that happened once or twice, but that will be remembered for years to come. If that is the case, it should be able to be linked to, so that new players can see what the title is about. This means that a title based on something that happened in scumchat can only be considered if the log is posted. The other possibility is that a title is based on something that is defining of a person. In that case, it should be behavior or events that happened repeatedly, and are likely to happen again. It doesn't really matter if it's based on something in mafia games, mishmash, mafia discussion, general discussion or scumchat, as long as the player is recognized (see first point) through the area of the site the title is based on.

Thirdly, it is a plus if a title is actually witty. However, this is not necessary, and may definately not reduce the recognizability of a title.

I can think of three reasons to change/remove a title. The first is that the player no longer wants it. A player should be able to decide that a title is not something he wants to be remembered by. The second is that the title is no longer defining of the player. The third is that a clearly better title comes along.




As for the proces of giving out titles, I think the current method works reasonably fine. A single thread where users can suggest titles, with a title fairy who judges if titles are actually suitable and keeps order in the thread.

The title thread should only contain serious suggestions for titles and discussion of those suggestions. It is no place for spam, nor is there a point in continually suggesting titles based on something which simply isn't worthy of recognition. There shouldn't be a limit to the amount of titles suggested. However, if you post in the thread, I expect you to actually take the titles seriously.

I believe site ideas is as good a place as any. It doesn't belong in mafia discussion, because titles can be based on something that happened outside mafia games too. Nor is it suitable in general discussion, because too many titles are based on mafia. Site ideas is a place to suggest improvements to the site, which means it does fit here, although tediously.
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:18 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Oman wrote:I was thinking about some sort of title review period. A month after a title is approved, a post is made "hey guys, what do we think of X title for Y?" just to check whether or not the title has had staying power over that month.
I think it'll be more of a pain in the butt than the benefit it'll give.
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:57 pm

Post by Oman »

I'm amused that this thread has 2 pages of (very good) replies. The title fairy thread has six pages of...of title fairy thread.
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:25 am

Post by shaft.ed »

Oman wrote:I'm amused that this thread has 2 pages of (very good) replies. The title fairy thread has six pages of...of title fairy thread.
This is serious business
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:52 pm

Post by Porochaz »

Oman wrote: To facilitate discussion I have a few questions:

1. What do you think titles should be? Should they be an expression of each user's individuality? A reward for long standing Scummers who have been active in the community? An entitlement after x years/posts/games?
Should be for users who have taken an active part in the community for a long time, whether its in GD or just in mafia games.
2. What do you think the Title Fairy should be? A passive administrator to update the first page only? A moderator to ensure a sense of order in thread and titles? A way to make sure crap titles don't get through by his own judgment as an appointed official?
Someone to collect title suggestions, weed out the ones that break site rules-dont follow rules set down, make rules to be set down, be neutral.

The user behind the title fairy can and should have an opinion but if there is a popular title that the site get behind then the title fairy shouldnt stop unless its for extenuating reasons.
3. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title recipients? 100 posts is still okay? 1 completed game? 1 year on site? No requirements?
Larger restriction most definetly, 100 posts is a ridiculously small number. I would say larger than this but without delving into the range where people start laughing in my face, 500 seems like a decent number to be able to aptly give someone a title with a decent basis rather than the crap in the first 7 pages so far. Also understandable someone might not post that much so I would lower the post count to something like 300 if they have been here over a year.
4. What limits/restrictions need to be placed on title suggesters? One suggestion/week? No limit? Bannings from Title Fairy on repeated insulting titles?
To be honest, I think the amount is not the problem and would be impossible to enforce, its the way its being run.
5. Should titles be on for the life of the account? Expand on what you feel to appropriate length of time before someone's title would be changed.
Title's should be kept until the user wants it gone. Having say a years time period on a title seems pointless and considering it takes so long to put up it makes giving titles irrelevant (more irrelevant)
6. Should titles be suggest by the community and then "accepted" by the person-in-question (for want of a better term), or should they be thrust upon them regardless of their thoughts on it? Of course, this links with "title fairy moderation of titles" as above.
Suggested
Accepted by Title Fairy
Accepted by person
Done
7. What do you see the Title Fairy Thread as? A spam thread? Srs Title Business? A place where you can post whatever without fear of moderation/incurring wrath?
I dont see it as serious business but its ridiculous at the moment, I read the 7 pages and it makes me want to drown some kittens in my piss.

The way I would run a title thread is as thus

Player A suggests title in such a way:
I nominate Player B for "title"
Player C suggests an alternative
Players D, E and F like players A's title and dislike Player C's, they say:
Yes to "title A", No to "title C" - (possibly could be expanded to give one lined reasoning)
If there are lots of yes's title fairy approves title
Player B approves title

No other dialogue, title fairy thread should be for titles only. Either its a good title or not. What we have at the moment is people giving titles or going in wanting titles for themselves or just general spamming. Its not the place.
8. What should a title be given
for
? Mafia games? Scumchat? GD?
All, all are part of the site and things like the wiki and scumchat have been used before and should remain. If something has happened on scumchat then there will be enough people to back it up.
9. Where do you want it? Site Ideas, Mafia Discussion, GD?
No reason to move it. MD would make sense but site ideas is ok as well.
10. Round it out with anything else you have to add.
I think Im harsh with my assessment and maybe it doesnt allow as much discussion but I think the title fairy thread should just be for suggesting and approving/rejecting titles. Not for all the crap that fill 75% of it.
Love,
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Since when have you been "new"
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:02 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Also, I just dredged up this epic post by newbOman.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 673#966673
:lol:
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:01 pm

Post by Oman »

I'd been here just over a year when I posted that. But holy crap! What a review of my opinions.

It's interesting how involved I was with Titling back then, and how passionate I was.
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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:10 pm

Post by Lord Gurgi »

I pretty much think that whatever Oman comes up with will be a good mix of shameless despot and pushover. Just go for it. People will be either happy or unhappy with the system for personal reasons.
(11:26:07 PM) thesheamuffin: I'm counting gurgi because I would probably make out with him if I were drunk enough
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:15 pm

Post by Herodotus »

Oman wrote:I'm amused that this thread has 2 pages of (very good) replies. The title fairy thread has six pages of...of title fairy thread.
You could always abuse your power by deleting some of the useless posts ... in general.
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:45 am

Post by Ythill »

1. Agreeing with shaft. A title should designate someone who has become a well-known member of the community. Also, they should usually be reserved for main accounts.

2. I believe that the title fairy should play an active role in sifting through the title noms and preventing crap-titles. I also believe the role should be a committee rather than a single person.

3. I think limits should be minimal. With an attentive title fairy and responsible noming, limits become an arbitrary thing that works against the process: an obstacle to the scummer who actually deserves a title despite not yet qualifying for one and a false sense of entitlement for the scummer who qualifies but does not deserve one.

4. I think the site rules suffice.

5. I don't think we need to define the life of a title. It should remain until a better one is suggested, though I do think it should be easier to change someone's title if they already have one than it is for an untitled scummer to get his first.

6. People should absolutely be able to veto a title. Those who abuse this by continually vetoing perfectly acceptable titles should simply not get one.

7. Serious title business. But like all things MS, we should have leeway to make a joke or three as long as posts generally stay on topic.

8. I think titles can and should be based on all forms of content. However, I feel like a title should never be based on a single post or a username pun.

9. Site Ideas is good. I think it minimizes the spamming.
Record:
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Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:52 pm

Post by shaft.ed »

Ythill wrote: 3. I think limits should be minimal. With an attentive title fairy and responsible noming, limits become an arbitrary thing that works against the process: an obstacle to the scummer who actually deserves a title despite not yet qualifying for one and a false sense of entitlement for the scummer who qualifies but does not deserve one.
This is what I meant with my #3 answer btw. Ythill said it better so I wanted to reiterate.
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:57 pm

Post by Adel »

DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:I think the Title Fairy is unneccessary, and adding the ability for users to set their own titles at their own behest upon reaching some arbitrary level of contribution to the site would be a much better way of dealing with the issue.
this. Unless y'all dig the bureaucracy for the fun of it, I think that letting players choose their own title is the least cumbersome process. There could still be a title suggestion thread, and peer pressure (ACCEPT IT) could encourage titles with community approval.
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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:05 pm

Post by DizzyIzzyB13 »

Overthrowing the Title Fairy's shackles and giving power to the oppressed Mafia-playing proletariat is the best solution. :p
Show
DizzyIzzyB13: For the record, I /ghooked Cogitate :p
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DizzyIzzyB13: Cogitate is shorter. :(
DizzyIzzyB13: Sorry, CD
ChannelDelibird: Well, at least that's the first time a girl has told me "it's not short enough"
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:08 pm

Post by Thok »

Mr. Flay wrote:Also, I just dredged up this epic post by newbOman.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 673#966673
:lol:
A wise person in that thread wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again. The single most important thing anybody can do to improve the Title Fairy thread is to suggest interesting titles.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:08 am

Post by Oman »

Last chance to get in guys. I'm going to start writing my PM to mith now, you have until it finishes (maybe 24hrs) to get in.
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