Player Titles - Ideas, Suggestions, & Comments

A subforum entirely dedicated to the discussion of titles. The title fairy has carte blanche in this subforum.
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Player Titles - Ideas, Suggestions, & Comments

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:42 pm

Post by Psyche »

This thread has been created to allow community members to make suggestions, discuss ideas, and to comment on the current Title Fairy procedures.

Keep it civil! This is for productive discussion, not snarky takedowns.

Understand that while your input is definitely valued, ultimately the current Title Fairy has to make the call that it believes is in the best interest of the Title Fairy institution and MS. It is not a democracy.

This thread is not for nominations for player titles. Go hereto make a nomination of a player.
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:48 pm

Post by Psyche »

So, here are my plans.

I think titles matter, and that titles should continue to matter. This system I really respect derives its value, I think, from the value of what it produces. Yeah, they're just small text strings, but they're small text strings that follow a user wherever they go on this forum and are specially crafted to hold a lot of meaning to a lot of people. Deep to their core, they're nice, shiny gifts, given from a community to a user. I think the Title Fairy's mission is to preserve this community-centered process and these high standards.
My overall strategy for preserving and building this institution will be to emphasize title standards on the one hand, and to help users more frequently meet them on the other.
Better titles, more titles.

Titles should not just be gifts, but really nice gifts. Higher standards alone are straightforwardly implemented (I can just reject titles I don't think are good)! But with this emphasis alone, there will merely be fewer titles, not more good titles. Is anyone really better off? Title quality is therefore not the only issue; there's a fundamental scarcity. There's a number of users who the community would probably agree deserve good titles, but the work required for producing them is too difficult to match demand. I have several ideas for improving title productivity while simultaneously emphasizing title standards:

-
Clearer, crowd-sourced, more positive standards for good titles.
It's easier for a lot of people to reach the goalposts if they know exactly where those goalposts are. Right now, to some extent it's clear to scummers what doesn't count as a good title (eg username puns), but more ambiguous what
does
. I will try to workshop with the community a set of positive guidelines (ie best practices) for good titles so that users can get a clear suggestive sense of what a community is looking for in title nominations. Of course, a problem with specifying standards for titles is that they can be constraining. My plan to avoid this might be to emphasize a diversity of viewpoints on how good titles stand out, so people feel empowered to assert their own standards in dialogue with everyone else's. Or maybe can be communicated in a less prescriptive manner (ie a pool of the site's favorite titles annotated with explanations for their success that can be used as exemplars).

-
Facilitated community involvement and a more active subforum.
I will do stuff to make the Title Fairy subforum more exciting and well-known around the site, being a bit theatrical, creating 'events' based around titles, and actively inviting people to participate in title nominations/discussions. The workshopping I mentioned above is one example of this, but I have others. I might organize a poll or other game to highlight forgotten-yet-really-good titles, or to sort how much the community values different titles. Maybe I'll recognize people for a record of particularly successful title nomination(s), encouraging them and potential emulators. With respect to all of these ideas, I'll start small and avoid concurrence to make sure things run smoothly and no crowding out of activity happens elsewhere on the site. But still, lots can be done.

-
Programmatically designed tools and other resources for brainstorming titles.
I like to code stuff, and I'm really interested in understanding thoroughly how good titles are made. I will try to produce tools to facilitate this process. For example, I mentioned this before in the old title thread, suggesting the possibility of inventing a pun-title generator that takes a list of or a single "reference" to be made about a user (like, for example, "Rap") and performs a series of synonym/homophone and idiom searches to produce an exhaustive list of idiomatic puns on the original reference(s). Of course, if they're interested in a non-pun-based title the tool might not be as useful. However, for a subset of users who really want to nominate someone for some reason but can't quite find a clever way to phrase it, a tool like this could be a great resource, without ever really decentering the users' place or the community's place in the title nomination process. This and other resources might not need to be so computationally intensive, but the same strategy holds true: facilitate user creativity by giving them certain kinds of information.

There's probably more I could do. If you have more ideas for initiatives that serve my general strategy, or wanna talk through my general strategy, here we are. In the short term, the title subforum will be much like it's always been, but with me approving/rejecting/moderating noms. But in my free time, tinkering lots of tinkering.
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:51 pm

Post by McMenno »

wow we are going to do a lot of cool fun things aren't we psyche

aren't we... all
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:12 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 0, Psyche wrote:This thread is not for nominations for player titles. Go here to make a nomination of a player.
Pssst
There's no link to the Fairy Nom thread here...

Just thought I'd mention it
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:18 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

Also, just read through and I love your ideas :)

I'll gladly help hash things out with you here!
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:34 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

Update titles wiki if you can

or bribe someone to do that for you :]
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:36 pm

Post by Psyche »

If you do anything too fancy to the title wiki, it will stop you, as it takes up too much memory or something. I'd like a find a way to clean the page up while keeping things simple. Maybe format it like this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases ?
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:46 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

I think it will just warn you but will let you post it anyway?
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:47 pm

Post by Frozen Angel »

and that format is awsome
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:04 am

Post by Davsto »

Okay I have a big bugbear with certain titles which I think that, 90% of the time, are kinda crap. Don't get me wrong - sometimes they're great, there are exception to every rule - but usually they're really not.

Titles based on a single, recent event.

I think that maybe something cool and interesting happened, and people clamour to give a title for it, but the actual thing isn't that memorable and within a few weeks it's no longer a big thing and the title is outdated within a month or two, when titles are supposed to be some longstanding thing that endures for a long time without becoming dated.

I'm not going to say that they should be stopped outright, but I think certain steps could be taken to reduce them, or at least make sure only the really good ones of actually memorable events survive.

My personal idea is that a title based on a recent event (within the last week or from a game which ended within the last week) should be delayed once they gain enough popularity - and then be reintroduced by the Title Fairy within a week or so, and then made to go through the nthing process from scratch. I suppose there's a minor issue of slowing the process down, but I think it would genuinely help boost the quality, because if an event isn't memorable enough to be worth giving a title for just one week after it happens, then it definitely isn't worth a title in the first place.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:08 am

Post by McMenno »

more like professor of being a dung amirite amirite
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:11 am

Post by Firebringer »

In post 9, Davsto wrote:Okay I have a big bugbear with certain titles which I think that, 90% of the time, are kinda crap. Don't get me wrong - sometimes they're great, there are exception to every rule - but usually they're really not.

Titles based on a single, recent event.
Examples?
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his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:15 am

Post by Davsto »

lalalducks - best newcrummer
CuddlyCaucasian - Professor of being a dog
animorpherv1 - honey trap
Shadoweh - Idol Hands
Pine - In Your Head (I think this was just based on one game, right?)

Okay, maybe not 90%, but I'd say that the first and third of those titles are genuinely bad as well as already quite outdated, and the second is pretty weak too.

They're not always bad, but I feel that they're just inherently lower quality than other titles, and yet more likely to get nths as people get all excited and motivated about this thrilling thing what just happened.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:17 am

Post by McMenno »

In post 12, Davsto wrote:Shadoweh - Idol Hands
not based on a recent event
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:19 am

Post by Firebringer »

In post 12, Davsto wrote:lalalducks - best newcrummer
CuddlyCaucasian - Professor of being a dog
animorpherv1 - honey trap
Shadoweh - Idol Hands
Pine - In Your Head (I think this was just based on one game, right?)
Idol hands is based of multiple survivor games as far as I know.
And in your head is from two mafia games and I think a third one is being planned

I agree that ducks title hasn't aged well and I don't think cuddly will either, but animorph I think was a big site thing.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:20 am

Post by Davsto »

In post 13, McMenno wrote:
In post 12, Davsto wrote:Shadoweh - Idol Hands
not based on a recent event
and that's one of the good ones, which if anything helps my point :P
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:23 am

Post by Creature »

Removing someone's title is rude.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:24 am

Post by Davsto »

In post 16, Creature wrote:Removing someone's title is rude.
Good thing I'm not calling for that
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:52 am

Post by Psyche »

I think it's a decent idea, but I want to find a way to implement it that's minimally obtrusive or elaborate. Ideally users should be able to decide for themselves if a title will stand the test of time or not. Or at least I should be able to make that call if they can't. But yeah, people can get starry-eyed.

Maybe I'll come up with a possible Step 3 decision option besides approval/rejection - maybe call it "Limbo" - where I require titles I'm ambivalent or concerned about to jump a higher hurdle that's specified according to the situation (maybe extra nths, a waiting period, more evidence, etc). And a special case of that could be event-based titles potentially too soon after the referenced event?
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:19 am

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 12, Davsto wrote:lalalducks - best newcrummer
CuddlyCaucasian - Professor of being a dog
animorpherv1 - honey trap
Shadoweh - Idol Hands
Pine - In Your Head
At least three of these are based on things I remember and think we're worthy events, and a couple are based on more than one example or instance of things/have a deeper meaning to the characters at play.

Yes, I find 2 unremarkable now. Not saying which two.
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Post Post #20 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:24 am

Post by Aristophanes »

Make a council of title holders to decide if a title is good after the general public has decided?

Like, 5 Nth in the Fairy thread, then some sort of consensus from a higher council in the 48 hours, then you give the approval?

This would remove some starry eyed results and placate the calls for "only titled members deciding who gets titles" crowd.
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Post Post #21 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:27 am

Post by Creature »

Doubt any title on an untitled player would pass if we had higher council.
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Post Post #22 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:30 am

Post by Davsto »

In post 20, Aristophanes wrote:"only titled members deciding who gets titles" crowd.
wait people were actually serious about that

i was under the impression that it was entirely a joke
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Post Post #23 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:40 am

Post by Aristophanes »

Well they'd be handpicked by Psyche and reviewed to be good title Pixies willing to be unbiased in their reviews
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Post Post #24 (ISO) » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:41 am

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 22, Davsto wrote:
In post 20, Aristophanes wrote:"only titled members deciding who gets titles" crowd.
wait people were actually serious about that

i was under the impression that it was entirely a joke
(I might be mentioning it just to show it is ridiculous, but it was a suggestion toon and therefore it is not officially noted and discussed :P)
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