[SETUP] Wayward Bullets

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BuJaber
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:32 pm

1 Mafia 1-shot BP Goon
3 Mafia Vengeful-traitors

3 Town 1-shot BP, 2-shot Vigilantes
6 VTs

Traitors know the goon, goon doesn't know traitors.
Traitors do not know each other.
If goon tries to NK a traitor, the traitor becomes a goon instead and loses vengeful modifier.

The 1-shot BP protects from all bullets the night the holder is shot at.

Town wins when all goons are dead.
Mafia have standard wincon, traitors count as mafia.

Mafia chat is always open. (Only matters if two goons or more are alive at the same time).
"BuJaber's methodology is such that he is not one making friends; everything he does is antagonizing people. That's easy for less-experienced/skilled players to misinterpret as scum, but it's quite the opposite. "- Mastina

BuJaber
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:34 pm

Discussion point: if town is too weak, one VT can be a vanilla cop instead. (Traitors and vigs return not vanilla, goons and VTs return vanilla).
"BuJaber's methodology is such that he is not one making friends; everything he does is antagonizing people. That's easy for less-experienced/skilled players to misinterpret as scum, but it's quite the opposite. "- Mastina

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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:37 pm

In post 1, BuJaber wrote:Discussion point: if town is too weak, one VT can be a vanilla cop instead. (Traitors and vigs return not vanilla, goons and VTs return vanilla).


That said, the setup feels a bit townsided tbh.
"BuJaber's methodology is such that he is not one making friends; everything he does is antagonizing people. That's easy for less-experienced/skilled players to misinterpret as scum, but it's quite the opposite. "- Mastina

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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:39 am

Does Venge activate on NK or just lynch?
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BuJaber
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:45 am

If they flip they venge.

So yes if a vig shot a traitor they'll vengekill someone, but not if scum shoot them.
"BuJaber's methodology is such that he is not one making friends; everything he does is antagonizing people. That's easy for less-experienced/skilled players to misinterpret as scum, but it's quite the opposite. "- Mastina

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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:46 am

Hm... Not able to work it out due to sleep deprivation, but it's probably best for traitors to claim D1.
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:55 am

That's 2 town for 1 scum 3 times, if the goon hits VT everytime.

Which would leave 3 VTs against 1 goon at best case scenario for scum (traitors vengekill Vigs 3 times in a row, bypassing the BP)

Doesn't seem worth it.
"BuJaber's methodology is such that he is not one making friends; everything he does is antagonizing people. That's easy for less-experienced/skilled players to misinterpret as scum, but it's quite the opposite. "- Mastina

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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:57 am

Mylo is great for scum don't get me wrong but that's considering the best case scenario that still needs to dodge a 25% lynch, or 33% if town no lynch until 3p lylo.
"BuJaber's methodology is such that he is not one making friends; everything he does is antagonizing people. That's easy for less-experienced/skilled players to misinterpret as scum, but it's quite the opposite. "- Mastina

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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:40 am

I was thinking for some reason that vigs wouldn't shoot traitors. I'm actually awake now, and thinking it over.

4v9, ~3 myslinches to win.

There's a roughly 10% chance of a town win on the first Day/Night cycle. Claims never save anyone.

I don't see a reason it can't be run, although it is pretty swingy. The game is basically decided after N1, imo.
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:23 pm

Town can be in lylo after one night (mafia + 3 vigs shoot VTs)


Optimal strategy is to massclaim vigs d1 I think

Let me think on it more

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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:35 pm

Can actually be a scumwin if there's also a mislynch. Massclaiming vigs just ensures they get venged, because I think Buj implied venge ignores BP.
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:21 am

Yes that is a risk I thought about.

The setup is designed in a way that forces people to try and make good decisions. Acting on impulse or with haste is detrimental to both teams.

The vigs were given BP and made x-shot partly for balance and to add some element of a puzzle regarding night kills. But mainly it was to ensure they were adequately protected to live long enough to shoot based on having more information.

Basically if the biggest problem is that day 2 could be lylo that's fine with me. I'm giving the vigs the responsibility of avoiding this as best they can.

Much more interested in finding major flaws in the setup, breaking strategies, or if it is heavily unbalanced. I know the last one is difficult to calculate, and having vigs in any setup is risky, but mafia starting with only 1 goon is a huge vulnerability which theoretically counteracts the negative utility of vigs.
"BuJaber's methodology is such that he is not one making friends; everything he does is antagonizing people. That's easy for less-experienced/skilled players to misinterpret as scum, but it's quite the opposite. "- Mastina

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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:30 am

I think there is also little value in vigs shooting on night 1, definitely a waste if all 3 shoot on night 1.

Traitors could be recruited later on but they would also lose their vengeful, so it makes sense to shoot only when you think you have the goon pegged.

Maybe vigs can claim one at a time.
Say day 1 a VT is mislynched. At some point on day 1 a vig claims. That vig then shoots the 2nd biggest wagon or something like that.

As long as that vig is alive they are the ones that shoot until they run out of bullets.

Something like that where there is some control over vigs while having backup pseudo-ICs.
"BuJaber's methodology is such that he is not one making friends; everything he does is antagonizing people. That's easy for less-experienced/skilled players to misinterpret as scum, but it's quite the opposite. "- Mastina

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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:11 pm

Nah, vigs shooting D1 gives about a 10% chance of a town win N1. It's just the right move. The odds of all vigs and the goon hitting different VTs is very low, comparitively. And shooting a vengeful player is just fine for the vigs, especially given the possibility of traitor venge hitting another traitor.

It's probably just fine balance wise, although very swingy. Any setup with a potential 7 kill sources is going to be swingy though.
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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:14 pm

(For reference, and because I'm a giant nerd.)

N1 scumwin:

6/13 to lynch vanilla town.
5/11 to have goon shoot VT.
4/11 to have Vig1 shoot distinct VT.
3/11 to have Vig2 shoot distinct VT.
2/11 to have Vig3 shoot distinct VT.

It's approximately a 0.4% chance.
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NerfedBuJ
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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:47 pm

In post 0, BuJaber wrote:The 1-shot BP protects from all bullets the night the holder is shot at.


It's impossible to kill goon or vigs with a bullet on N1.
If traitor is shot they can potentially vengekill a vig, but as they know the goon, the goon is 100% safe on night 1.
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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:37 pm

Oh. Hmmm. I'd assumed standard 1 shot stops 1 kill, but the distinction isn't very dangerous. Still probably worth it given it makes a town win N2 much more likely. Drops the town win likelihood, but probably not enough to matter.
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