[CHALLENGE] July Challenge

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
RadiantCowbells
People tried
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Pronoun: He

Post Post #50  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:24 pm

it's a badly designed game that's also scumsided.
If you're Macho and someone tries to rolestop you, you never realise you're being targeted for a kill, so your machismo never gets challenged

RadiantCowbells
People tried
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Pronoun: He

Post Post #51  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:25 pm

but, uh, i generally end up hating the games that come out of this so take my opinions with a grain of salt.
If you're Macho and someone tries to rolestop you, you never realise you're being targeted for a kill, so your machismo never gets challenged

chennisden
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: milky way
Pronoun: He

Post Post #52  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:28 pm

it's hard to design a good open.

i also think TL's setup is probably like the best suggested so far and I think that's because challenges inherently tend to have stupid restrictions.

it's really hard to design the challenges so the challenges end up sucking and the setups end up sucking.

chennisden
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: milky way
Pronoun: He

Post Post #53  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:39 pm

uh, yeah

all of these setups are either

1) broken or extremely linear (see ircher)
2) an english essay (nk15)
3) not mafia (popsofctown)
and you just need to come to a consensus on who scum is. then force them to self vote

if they're scum they lose and if town then you still have a 25% of winning.

singletonking
Plays Mafia
 
User avatar
Joined: June 06, 2018
Location: BulletNLynchproof's playing account
Pronoun: He

Post Post #54  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:50 pm

In post 9, Irrelephant11 wrote:
Open Box of Silver9p, 7v2

During the day phase, scum must split all players into 2-person neighborhoods without overlap. These neighborhoods take effect during the night, and only last one night. Scum also have continuous scumchat, but scumchat is not considered a neighborhood.
Scum must also choose one neighborhood to give a Watcher action to.
Scum may also choose one other neighborhood to give a Jailkeep action to. If scum ever choose to give the Watcher action to a neighborhood with two scum in it, they must also give out the Jailkeep action that night. If scum ever choose to give the Watcher action to a neighborhood that has one scum in it for the second or third night in a row, they must also give out the jailkeep action that night.

Within each neighborhood that has a night action, both members must choose a target for the night action. The two neighbors may choose the same or different targets. At the end of the night phase, mod will randomly choose one of the neighbors to enact that night action on their chosen target.

On Day 4, the game becomes nightless.


Let's see if this can become an open :P :D

In post 10, Irrelephant11 wrote:I recognize that the D1 lynch is technically never a neighbor, but it still feels in the spirit of the rule. STK let me know if this doesn't fit what you had in mind

Yeah this is fine because almost all people get to be neighbours. If it's only the Day 1 lynch that's excluded it's fine.

Having said that, your setup doesn't work... If a jailkeeper action ever succeeds, the next night will have an odd number of players alive and can't be split into 2-player neighbourhoods.
Alt of BulletNLynchproof. To eventually replace BNL as the main account.
"If town never did scummy things this game would be a lot easier." - nonny
Surprise Mafia is taking signups in the Mini Theme queue!
Play BTD6 with me!

Ircher
What A Grand Idea
 
User avatar
Joined: November 09, 2015
Location: EST/EDT
Pronoun: He

Post Post #55  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:51 pm

The Four Seasons
9x Vanilla Townie
1x Town 1-Shot Seasonal Sensor
3x Mafia Goon

During a special pregame/Dawn phase (after everyone has received alignment; mafia can chat during this phase), players privately choose one of the four seasons: winter, spring, summer, or autumn. Players that do not pick in a timely manner are automatically assigned to Winter.

Once the Dawn phase ends, players become neighbors with players that chose the same season as them. Who is in what neighborhood is not publicly revealed. The game then continues like a normal game.

Once per game, the Seasonal Sensor can choose a season. They will learn how many scum-aligned players (both living and dead) are in that season's neighborhood.
Semi-retired from Mafia as of September 2018. Check out my Player Ratings page!
Level Up is back; join anytime! [14/1+]
Grandest Idea Mafia is on Day 2 and needs 0 replacement(s).
A Normal Game is on Day 2 and needs 0 replacement(s).

OkaPoka
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: March 28, 2014
Pronoun: He

Post Post #56  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:54 pm

1 of N/2+19 Players (though possible to upscale, probably should be 1ofN/(#ofScumMembersAtGameStart)+1

7 Vanilla Town
2 Mafia Goons

Standard Mountainous 7v2 Game (daytalk up to moderator discretion) with one hitch.
Town have another vote option they can reach by majority, which is using their 1ofN/2+1 ability.
They may use this ability only once.
Upon selection of this ability, the day phase will be paused, votes will be reset and the Mafia will have a full night cycle of time to select N/2 living players+1, but at least one of them must be Mafia aligned.
This list will be published at the start of the day, and the deadline will be unpaused.
Mafia have access to the nightkill.

Inspired by liars v millers by psyche and the 1of4 ability in gameshow mafia by BNP

With one mafia dead, it clears effectively half the playerlist upon selection of the ability.

also please criticize
esp balance i dont know how to calculate balance

chennisden
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: milky way
Pronoun: He

Post Post #57  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:31 pm

In post 55, Ircher wrote:The Four Seasons
9x Vanilla Townie
1x Town 1-Shot Seasonal Sensor
3x Mafia Goon

During a special pregame/Dawn phase (after everyone has received alignment; mafia can chat during this phase), players privately choose one of the four seasons: winter, spring, summer, or autumn. Players that do not pick in a timely manner are automatically assigned to Winter.

Once the Dawn phase ends, players become neighbors with players that chose the same season as them. Who is in what neighborhood is not publicly revealed. The game then continues like a normal game.

Once per game, the Seasonal Sensor can choose a season. They will learn how many scum-aligned players (both living and dead) are in that season's neighborhood.

nice!

chennisden
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: February 11, 2019
Location: milky way
Pronoun: He

Post Post #58  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:33 pm

In post 56, OkaPoka wrote:
1 of N/2+19 Players (though possible to upscale, probably should be 1ofN/(#ofScumMembersAtGameStart)+1

7 Vanilla Town
2 Mafia Goons

Standard Mountainous 7v2 Game (daytalk up to moderator discretion) with one hitch.
Town have another vote option they can reach by majority, which is using their 1ofN/2+1 ability.
They may use this ability only once.
Upon selection of this ability, the day phase will be paused, votes will be reset and the Mafia will have a full night cycle of time to select N/2 living players+1, but at least one of them must be Mafia aligned.
This list will be published at the start of the day, and the deadline will be unpaused.
Mafia have access to the nightkill.

Inspired by liars v millers by psyche and the 1of4 ability in gameshow mafia by BNP

With one mafia dead, it clears effectively half the playerlist upon selection of the ability.

also please criticize
esp balance i dont know how to calculate balance

force it to be used before first mafia dies.

or it's really really toxic.

Irrelephant11
In the room
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: These were children who hadn’t yet lost their sense of wonder
Pronoun: He

Post Post #59  (ISO)  » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:23 am

In post 42, chennisden wrote:
In post 9, Irrelephant11 wrote:
Open Box of Silver9p, 7v2

During the day phase, scum must split all players into 2-person neighborhoods without overlap. These neighborhoods take effect during the night, and only last one night. Scum also have continuous scumchat, but scumchat is not considered a neighborhood.
Scum must also choose one neighborhood to give a Watcher action to.
Scum may also choose one other neighborhood to give a Jailkeep action to. If scum ever choose to give the Watcher action to a neighborhood with two scum in it, they must also give out the Jailkeep action that night. If scum ever choose to give the Watcher action to a neighborhood that has one scum in it for the second or third night in a row, they must also give out the jailkeep action that night.

Within each neighborhood that has a night action, both members must choose a target for the night action. The two neighbors may choose the same or different targets. At the end of the night phase, mod will randomly choose one of the neighbors to enact that night action on their chosen target.

On Day 4, the game becomes nightless.


Let's see if this can become an open :P :D

How? 2 does not divide 9.

I guess these decisions should happen during twilight, because after the lynch the playerlist is in evens
Hey all! Excited and nervous to play my first game with you!

You should check out Monthly Setup Challenges!

Irrelephant11
In the room
 
User avatar
Joined: April 09, 2018
Location: These were children who hadn’t yet lost their sense of wonder
Pronoun: He

Post Post #60  (ISO)  » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:27 am

Open Box of Silver, v29p, 7v2

During the twilight phase, scum must split all players into 2-person neighborhoods without overlap. If there is an odd # of players, scum choose one player to be left out of the neighborhoods. These neighborhoods take effect during the night, and only last one night. Scum also have continuous scumchat, but scumchat is not considered a neighborhood.
Scum must also choose one neighborhood to give a Watcher action to.
Scum may also choose one other neighborhood to give a Jailkeep action to. If scum ever choose to give the Watcher action to a neighborhood with two scum in it, they must also give out the Jailkeep action that night. If scum ever choose to give the Watcher action to a neighborhood that has one scum in it for the second or third night in a row, they must also give out the jailkeep action that night.

Within each neighborhood that has a night action, both members must choose a target for the night action. The two neighbors may choose the same or different targets. At the end of the night phase, mod will randomly choose one of the neighbors to enact that night action on their chosen target.

On Day 4, the game becomes nightless.
Hey all! Excited and nervous to play my first game with you!

You should check out Monthly Setup Challenges!

RadiantCowbells
People tried
 
User avatar
Joined: February 24, 2013
Pronoun: He

Post Post #61  (ISO)  » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:43 pm

OkaPokas game seems fun if the division has to occur SOD2
If you're Macho and someone tries to rolestop you, you never realise you're being targeted for a kill, so your machismo never gets challenged

Not Known 15
Mafia Scum
 
Joined: September 15, 2017

Post Post #62  (ISO)  » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:08 pm

I'd like to get more feedback about my setup.

Ircher
What A Grand Idea
 
User avatar
Joined: November 09, 2015
Location: EST/EDT
Pronoun: He

Post Post #63  (ISO)  » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:35 pm

In post 53, chennisden wrote:2) an english essay (nk15)

@Not Known 15 --> No one wants to read a setup whose mechanical description is that long. See if you can simplify the design or at least format it in such a way that it's easy to read and doesn't appear as complex as it really is.
Semi-retired from Mafia as of September 2018. Check out my Player Ratings page!
Level Up is back; join anytime! [14/1+]
Grandest Idea Mafia is on Day 2 and needs 0 replacement(s).
A Normal Game is on Day 2 and needs 0 replacement(s).

Jingle
Ring a Bell?
 
User avatar
Joined: July 18, 2013
Happy Scumday!
Location: Spokane, WA
Pronoun: He

Post Post #64  (ISO)  » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:18 pm

Ego
Show

Oversoul
I tried to say
 
User avatar
Joined: June 05, 2011
Pronoun: He

Post Post #65  (ISO)  » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:40 pm

Job Application12 players
9 town - 7 townies and 2 applicants
3 mafia - 2 goons and 1 applicant

Selection Phase
- Mafia have 24 hours to choose who will be their applicant

Application Phase
- 3 private topics will be made with 3 unique players in each private topic (excluding applicants). All 3 applicants will have their own private topic. 1 private topic will be all town. 2 private topics will have 1 goon in each
- Each applicant will be given 72 hours access to a different private topic. Their access and viewing privileges will be revoked after 72 hours. They will then get 72 hours to access a different private topic until each applicant has had 72 hours access to each private topic. Other applicants who enter a private topic after an applicant has been there will be able to see those posts

Selection Phase
- Everyone will vote for the applicant that will get a 1-shot private topic sensor ability (they choose a player and then will be given a result if that player's private topic contains mafia)
- This selection phase lasts 48 hours

Day Phase
- After the selection phase, the 1-shot private topic sensor ability will be used automatically on applicant's choice
- Normal voting will commence
- Once a player has been voted, the other individuals originally in that private topic will also leave the game
- Can vote for the applicants
- Mafia win if 2 of their members escape
- Town wins if they lynch two mafia


If someone could do the EV on this, I would appreciate it

callforjudgement
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: September 01, 2011

Post Post #66  (ISO)  » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:11 pm

In post 65, Oversoul wrote:If someone could do the EV on this, I would appreciate it

Mafia can't possibly reach majority the "regular" way, so the vote in the all-town neighbourhood is irrelevant from an EV point of view, as is the PT Sensor. So it comes down to whether town can get a 1 in 3 chance two times in three. There's a 2 in 9 chance of being right exactly twice, and an additional 1 in 27 chance of being right all three times, so the EV is 25.9%.
scum · scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn · town

Cinnamon
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: May 18, 2019
Pronoun: He

Post Post #67  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:26 am

Group Investigation13 Players (not entirely sure what playercount this would work best at)

10 Vanilla Town
3 Mafia Goons

This is a mountainous game with one twist. Each night, if there is a lynch, all players that voted for the lynch are put into a neighborhood and all players that did not vote for the lynch are put into a separate neighborhood.

Each player then submits a name (privately by PM) of a player they wish to investigate, and may choose themselves.

If all players in a neighborhood chose the same player, the alignment of that player is revealed in that neighborhood at the start of the day. If town, that player is protected from night kills both that night and the following night. All neighborhoods are only for that night and are locked upon the start of the day.

This effect lasts until there is only one mafia goon left, at which point the game returns to regular mountainous.

Thought it would be fun to do one of these, let me know how it looks. Not positive this ratio is best for balance.

Not Known 15
Mafia Scum
 
Joined: September 15, 2017

Post Post #68  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:03 am

In post 67, Cinnamon wrote:
Group Investigation13 Players (not entirely sure what playercount this would work best at)

10 Vanilla Town
3 Mafia Goons

This is a mountainous game with one twist. Each night, if there is a lynch, all players that voted for the lynch are put into a neighborhood and all players that did not vote for the lynch are put into a separate neighborhood.

Each player then submits a name (privately by PM) of a player they wish to investigate, and may choose themselves.

If all players in a neighborhood chose the same player, the alignment of that player is revealed in that neighborhood at the start of the day. If town, that player is protected from night kills both that night and the following night. All neighborhoods are only for that night and are locked upon the start of the day.

This effect lasts until there is only one mafia goon left, at which point the game returns to regular mountainous.

Thought it would be fun to do one of these, let me know how it looks. Not positive this ratio is best for balance.

The optimal way is this one:
The town looks for who is the most scummy.
Then the town decides who should be lynched.
Then the town decides who should lynch that player with their votes.
Then the less towny players lynch the least towny player.
Then the neighborhoods decide a town. That town must be picked by all town(obv.).
If scum is revealed the scum is NOT lynched until LYLO(forcing mafia to nightkill itself).
If town is revealed then that town decides all lynches, partipiciants in lynches, and reveal targets.
Plus, this setup is extremely dependant on every single town being active every single night.
That way described above doesn't look that interesting either.

Not Known 15
Mafia Scum
 
Joined: September 15, 2017

Post Post #69  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:18 pm

Council Infiltration version 217 Councillors:
Councillors of the East
Councillors of the South
Councillors of the West
Councillors of the North

3 Infiltrators(of the East, South, West or North)
There is an equal number of Councillors + Infiltrators for each direction.
Phases:
Infiltration->Twilight 2->Night->Twilight 1->Morning->Noon->Afternoon->Twilight 2->...

City: The city has - apart from the gates to the outside - one gate from each district(North South West East) to an adjacent district as well to the center.
The gates are: Northwest, Southwest, Southeast, Northeast, North, West, South, East.

At the start of the game, the infiltrators get a Infiltrator role pm and then decide their district. Multiple Infiltrators in the same district get a District Infiltrator PT. Then the rest is randomized.

The game now really starts for everyone in Twilight 2 of Day 1, the (normally) second voting phase of the day.
After the lynch the game descends into Night. The Infiltrators meet at the Center PT, if their gate isn't blocked. The Center PT is the regular Infiltrator PT and informs the mafia about all closed and open center gates. Every Infiltrator selects a player to kill, and a path to take through the gates. If any gate in that path is closed, then 1 infiltrator is left behind for every point of gate strength(if two or more Infiltrators take the same path; in this case, the infiltrator(s) left behind also count for the way back). If there is excess gate strength left, one Infiltrator dies for every point of gate strength in excess. In Night 1, the gates are open.
The new day begins with Twilight 1, the first voting phase of the day. The blocked gates report if there was suspicious activity around them(not including center gates blocking access to the Center PT), gate distribution reports are released and the nightkilled players flip.
The next phase is Morning. People now vote for the Head of the Council(HoC) or an emergency vote, via secret ballot(PM). Infiltrators that are part of a neighborhood may start an attack. If they outnumber town, all town die. If town outnumbers them, they die. If it's a 1v1 the priority for deaths is normal town>scum>Head of the Council. All other ties cause everyone in that neighborhood to die. These dead people do NOT flip.
The next phase is Noon. The results of the ballot are released:
-Majority for emergency vote: The main thread is unlocked and there is an additional vote. This can only happen once in the entire game.
-Majority for a HoC: The person is elected.
-Tie:Tied Councillors of the North are elected. If there is still a tie, a tied incumbent is elected. If there is still a tie, a tied person is selected randomly.

The next phase is Afternoon. Again, Infiltrators can attack in their neighborhoods in the same way as in the morning. The Head of the Council selects 4 of the gates to reinforce and close. They may select a gate more than once, but must select at least one center gate. The Head of the Council can freely pass through these gates at night, and every infiltrator who travels with them(including the initial movement to the Center PT) may pass through, too.

The game ends when the Infiltrators gain Majority or nothing can stop this from happening... or when they are all dead. The game also ends when the Infiltrators fail to kill three nights and days in a row or nothing except inactivity can stop this from happening(e.g. at twilight 1 only the following remain: 1 Head of the Council(East) vs 1 Infiltrator(South);1 Head of the Council Infiltrator(West) vs 1 Councillor of the North).
PhaseInfiltration Phase PTCenter PTDistrict Infiltrator PTDistrict PT's(Neighborhoods)Main Thread
InfiltrationOpenNonexistantNonexistantNonexistantClosed
Twilight 2ClosedClosedOpenOpenOpen
NightClosedSelective accessSelective accessClosedClosed
Twilight 1ClosedAccess revokedOpenOpenOpen
MorningClosedClosedOpenOpenClosed
Noon(EV)ClosedClosedClosedClosedOpen
AfternoonClosedClosedOpenOpenClosed

Can't be shortened further. Can someone now please give feedback?
Last edited by Not Known 15 on Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

popsofctown
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #70  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:19 pm

I don't think it's an important criticism that every player needs to be able to put in a night action. That's a requirement of mountainous mafia, once one player has a bad history of afking over the night phase it becomes possible to deduce who the scum could be by who would have missed submitting a night action. People who don't show up to do their night actions are always a problem.

I do think unfortunately like a lot of special lynching mechanics optimal play is to "leash the mechanic"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

Not Known 15
Mafia Scum
 
Joined: September 15, 2017

Post Post #71  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:34 pm

In post 70, popsofctown wrote:People who don't show up to do their night actions are always a problem.

That's true, but it is one-dimensional, in this case. Only town is punished for it(and one person is enough). Mafia isn't(unless they all fail to submit a kill).

Leashed mechanics are always something you should antipiciate(I do that for my secret ballot mechanic above, too).
And if that means that the game is not fun anymore because the leash taints the entire game, then the mechanic is not suited for an open setup.

popsofctown
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #72  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:38 pm

District membership is permanent? So if all three infiltrators chose south district as a questionable strategy they will always make a south gate "report suspicious activity" every night for the rest of the game?

Are the gates to the outside just flavor? That seems like it could help shorten things.

How do the gates become closed?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

Not Known 15
Mafia Scum
 
Joined: September 15, 2017

Post Post #73  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:33 pm

In post 72, popsofctown wrote:District membership is permanent? So if all three infiltrators chose south district as a questionable strategy they will always make a south gate "report suspicious activity" every night for the rest of the game?

Are the gates to the outside just flavor? That seems like it could help shorten things.

How do the gates become closed?

Question 1+2:District membership is permanent, but only closed gates(oops, edited) are supposed to report suspicious activity - which does not include failed attempts to access the Center PT(I did not forget that).
Question 3:Yes, flavor, but they are only mentioned in a single sentence so... no big effect on length.
Question 4:The Head of the Council closes the gates in the afternoon(and can bypass those along with anyone they bring with them at night, if they are an infiltrator).

popsofctown
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: September 23, 2008
Pronoun: She

Post Post #74  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:13 pm

I guess I could resubmit Titanzar Mafia if I stayed too lazy. It would qualify wouldn't it?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"

PreviousNext
[ + ]

Return to Open Setup Discussion

cron