[CHALLENGE] August Challenge (small update)

[mith]

See [JULY CHALLENGE] for last month's thread.

August Challenge (aka mith revisits all the previous challenges)

Create a new

fully open

setup:

Requirements:

• Exactly 6, 8, 10, or 14 players
  
• Standard lynch and day/night cycle
  
• At least two power roles

Must

Not

Contain:

• A new combination role
  or associative group
  
  
• Mafia Traitor
  
• Named Townie
  
• Town Bodyguard
  
• PTs (other than scum PT)

Must Contain

at least one

of the following:

• Mafia Lover (does not count as a power role)
  
• Informed Role
  
• Inventor
  
• Non-standard win condition

Submit your setups as posts in this thread. You may re-submit and/or edit until August 31st, at which point we'll vote.

Winner will be in charge of the requirements for next month's challenge!

Setups:
Not Known 15 - Shoot Me
callforjudgement - Careful Who You Kill
Temporal Lich - Cyan Flag
popsofctown - The Evil of the Mob
OkaPoka - Dayvigs and Godfathers
NotMySpamAccount - Untitled
Jingle - Greedy Inventors
northsidegal - Guard Dog 10p aka Double Bluff
Something_Smart - War Zone

[mith]

Nope

(The requirements/restrictions are based all the previous challenge items which were fulfilled by the eventual winner. The optional requirements are a selection of previous optional requirements which were not present in the eventual winner.)

[mith]

The Mask of Truth and the Bow of Justice

2 Mafia Goons
1 Informed 2-Shot Dayvig (X is cop)
1 Informed 2-Shot Cop (Y is dayvig)
6 Vanilla Townies.


Is this banned because the dayvig is both informed and a dayvig?

I would lean toward yes (but if someone wants to submit a setup that is in a grey area, I'll leave it to the voters). I could see the case for not banned, though (treated Informed as a modifier and not a role in its own right; though that may make some other setup fall short of the two power role rule).

[mith]

is multiball banned? (it has multiple scum PTs)

Multiball is allowed.

[mith]

I think it's probably fine... the combination role requirement I stole and negated was from irrelephant, he can comment on whether that would have qualified for January.

I get 8/15 (town ev) for Godfather lynch autowin? Or 7/15 if it's only an autowin if the Godfather is lynched before a dayvig occurs.

[mith]

Oh, I overlooked the dayvig autowin part.

You're not accounting for the force-scummiest-to-dayvig strategy though, this helps town a lot.

[mith]

With that change, I get 7/15 for dayvig autowin but no lynch autowin, and 60-40 with both autowin:

Code: Select all

1/6 - lynch godfather EV 3/5 (or 1)
1/6 - lynch goon EV 3/5
4/6 - IC, shoot EV 2/5 (or 1/2)
      1/5 - shoot godfather EV 1
      1/5 - shoot goon EV 1/2
      3/5 - shoot town EV 1/6 (or 1/3)
            1/4 - lynch godfather, nk IC, EV 1/3 (or 1)
            1/4 - lynch goon, nk IC, EV 1/3
            1/2 - lynch town, EV 0

(And 2/5 for no autowin at all, and 8/15 for only lynch autowin but not dayvig autowin.)

[mith]

Yeah, it has the best balance anyway. 40-60 is probably fine too (no autowin).

I'm curious now whether a setup like this could be made to work giving the Godfather the same dayvig/deactivate ability. Would need more town, obviously. (And it wouldn't qualify for this month's challenge, Godfather Dayvig is definitely a combo role.)

[mith]

I'll say yes.

[mith]

I'm removing the associative group restriction, primarily because I am not coming up with a clean way of defining it.

I think the Dayvig setup still runs into problems, in that either "Dayvig Deactivator" should be a combination role or the Dayvig should be considered a shared town power, which would mean the setup only has one (scum) power role. But it's a neat idea, otherwise.

[mith]

I don't see anything better than both dayvigs shoot ASAP.

Code: Select all

1/5 - First town to shoot picks second town.
        1/2 - Lynch Jester; I'm assuming this ends the game with that Jester winning and everyone else losing? Otherwise, Mafia win too, and in this case they can choose a Jester to cooperate with and share the win that way.
        1/2 - Lynch Mafia. If Mafia kills town, there is no incentive for anyone to help lynch anyone else, but a no lynch means Mafia wins; Jesters could come to some agreement to let one of them win, but letting the other Jester win is no better than letting Mafia win. I dunno, 1 Mafia 2 Jesters is a mess.
2/5 - First dayvig shoots Jester.
        1/3 - Second dayvig shoots Jester. Mafia wins.
        2/3 - Second dayvig shoots Mafia.
                1/2 - Lynch Mafia. Town wins.
                1/2 - Lynch Jester. Jester wins.
                ....except Jester has no reason to help lynch Mafia, and Mafia has no reason to help lynch Jester.
                    They can also vote together on a (confirmed) townie, preventing any sort of deadline tiebreak from working in town's favor.
                So no lynch instead? Mafia has to kill town, so 1 Town, 1 Jester, 1 Mafia, no lynch means Mafia win but Jester has no reason to help town lynch Mafia; mafia this is like above with Town and Jester making a deal to determine which wins, but same as above applies.
2/5 - First dayvig shoots Mafia.
        1/3 - Second dayvig shoots Mafia. Town wins.
        2/3 - Second dayvig shoots Jester.
                1/2 - Lynch Mafia. Town wins.
                1/2 - Lynch Jester. Jester wins.
                ....except Jester has no reason to help lynch Mafia, and Mafia has no reason to help lynch Jester.
                    They can also vote together on a (confirmed) townie, preventing any sort of deadline tiebreak from working in town's favor.

So that means 1/20 Jester 1 wins, 1/20 Jester 2 wins, 2/15 Mafia wins, 2/15 Town wins, 19/30 unresolved nonsense?

[mith]

I'd suggest dayvig immediately again. Less clear what the outcome would be, but more likely than not will take out at least one scum and confirm two town. And scum have the usual multiball prisoner's dilemma stuff going on, when there is confirmed town sometimes it's better to try to take the other scum out first so you don't get killed at night.

Not my type of setup, but some people might like it.

[mith]

"wins"?

[mith]

Sorry all, work trip, forgot all about this. I’ll vote tomorrow and calculate results.

[mith]

Cyan Flag (TemporalLich) - May come back and work out an EV for this one. It seems ok?

Careful Who You Kill (callforjudgement) - This should be more similar to 2:6, with the bombs soaking some of the kills? The bombs also throw off any claim reliability. Probably a bit of a random mess for my tastes, but I doubt the balance is too far off.

Greedy Inventors (Jingle) - I'm going back and forth on balance; without the inventions, it's pretty scumsided - town basically has two chances to hit the Godfather, I'd guess at an EV around 1/3? But the inventions investigating have a good chance of catching the Godfather, and if they hit the scum inventor before he can give the Godfather something they have a chance at hitting the invention wincon. No idea, but relatively interesting.

The Evil of the Mob (popsofctown) - The Incorrigible Youth seems a little irrelevant. The Mafia would rather a VT be lynched while they are off wagon than the IY, but aren't going to have a whole lot of say since they are off wagon and getting the IY lynched like that doesn't exactly hurt them. I don't hate this setup though, the mislynch mechanic could be interesting.

Guard Dog 10p aka Double Bluff (northsidegal) - Seems roughly 2:8 with an unkillable IC. Probably not terrible balance if the dog owner claims immediately and then plays mindgames with scum on when ownership is transfered. The second dog owner, if town, may get a missed kill to restore parity.

Shoot Me (Not Known 15) - Almost certainly town-sided? 2:6 with a Vig is already above 50% EV if the Vig is IC (from my previous estimates on this), so I highly doubt 2:8 with a normal Vig is lower than 50%, never mind that the inventor can also claim. The ascetic modifier is pretty minor here, and inventor ability will be mostly neutral to EV. Hard to say how townsided, might still be fine to play.

War Zone (Something_Smart) - Bulletproof Bomb should claim immediately. Mafia can counter, and almost certainly should (otherwise the inventor can make the Bomb a 1-shot Vig, and that's almost a guaranteed win). In fact, inventor can *still* give the 1-shot Vig to one of the claims, and the real bomb can safely shoot the counter and otherwise the fake claim is revealed day 3. In the former case, town will win well over 50% and in the later they get two shots at the other scum (45%?), so definitely town-sided.

Dayvigs and Godfathers (OkaPoka) - We settled on this being townsided, and also questionable whether it meets the requirements. It's a neat idea otherwise.

Untitled (NotMySpamAccount) - The first setup posted is broken and ambiguous, the second is not my type of setup and doesn't meet the requirements.

[mith]

Results:

7-0-1 - OkaPoka
4-0-4 - callforjudgement
6-2-0 - northsidegal
3-3-2 - NotKnown15, Jingle
3-4-1 - TemporalLich
2-3-3 - Something_Smart
1-6-1 - popsofctown
0-8-0 - NotMySpamAccount

I'll leave it to OkaPoka as to whether he wants to claim the win. If not, cfj wins the tiebreak over nsg with a head-to-head win.