[SETUP] Make It Count, Cowboy

[LlamaFluff]

Doesnt the theme of this game run directly contrary to optimal play for town (at least on first glance)?

I think it also breaks to scum just being gutsy? If they shoot first post its a 1/6 game over in loss, 1/6 game over in win, 4/6 game continues as 4:1 where there are zero interactions and town now just has to get lucky (53% scum win from that point? Its minimally 40% and feels like town just chooses two players they dont want to win). Pretty much I think you cant allow them to shoot D1 or the optimal move becomes killing someone in their very first post, as scum should have an over 50% win rate from there as town literally is just for lack of a better word shooting in the dark.

Seems like some 5:2 vengeful mixed with that old setup that was 3:2 and first town out got a venge kill that if hit right scum ended game. Feels more like its a setup that is intended to trick players into making theoretically bad moves.

[LlamaFluff]

Yeah that might work better. Need to think about it but otherwise I think if you give scum D1 ability to use their power they logically should ASAP to remove any sort of interactions, even though in that scenario the goon should just ignore their partner and even be fine killing them off immediately. Makes me wonder if tweaking something from a really old game that was something like 7-2 "mountainous" but a twist was if both scum were alive N2 one of them would automatically die overnight.

I just still have a feeling that this game plays best for scum if they completely ignore their partner and both act like SKs (at least through first few days). Its an interesting concept, but it feels like there is going to be a clear path of optimization which shouldnt really exist in opens.

[LlamaFluff]

question: have you seen the part where the mafia has no nightkill until a gunslinger's died?

Yep. I would actually modify it to "if either scum dies" where both turn into goons. Otherwise its almost too hard for scum to win with a D1 goon death. Or just tweak it... if either town/scum primary role are voted out they get a venge kill. If they hit other primary role they win.

I think you do have to at least handicap the scum GS into "cannot shoot Day One" (or maybe even D1 only?) though to make this work. It also starts running afoul of the issue of if scum dont both know each other, is it really mafia if there is no informed minority. Concept is interesting, im just trying to see how it plays out in practice and there seem to be moves that at least start detaching it from typical stuff.

[LlamaFluff]

Now im not saying its broken or anything, but I think that if there are not at least two scum who know who each other are, or at least have a searching ability to find the other, it doesnt make actually seem like mafia. If the scum GS can get away with it, trying to eliminate the entire aspect of an "informed minority" pretty much removes any chance of scum being able to be truly "caught"

[LlamaFluff]

Maybe just get creative with how the GS kill works?

Make it Goon-Goon (2:5) who have daytalk but no NK to start, but get one collective shot that they have to agree on in the PT. If they hit the Town GS they win. If they hit VT they lose. Then town GS essentially stays the same. Scum team has no kill unless one of them gets taken out by the GS. If they get voted out game remains nightless forever.