[OPEN EXPERIMENTAL SETUP (needs work)] Lockdown's Over

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
MargotRosa
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:10 am

2 x Town Compulsive Rolecop
2 x Town Compulsive Vigilante
3 x Town Compulsive Fruit Vendor
3 x Town Paranoid Gun Owner
Town Compulsive Neighbourizer
Vanilla Town

Mafia Flag Bearer w/ One-Shot Bulletproof Vest
Mafia Paranoid Gun Owner w/ One-Shot Bulletproof Vest
Mafia Universal Backup w/ One-Shot Bulletproof Vest


This is admittedly a very weird setup, and I'm more floating it as a potential experimental idea that needs a lot of work.

Idea is that Town wins once Flag Bearer is killed. Universal backup works as a backup flag bearer in the instance that they die before the Mafia PGO.

This Town-Sidedness is balanced with a large number of potentially useful, and compulsive but useless night actions for Town, combined with a number of Paranoid Gun Owners. Mafia start with three one-shot bulletproof vests to give them some leeway to plan around this, however these can be countered to more or less of a degree by Town vigilantes.

Site meta for claiming PGOs day 1 is countered by a number of PGOs that is too big to policy eliminate. Potential strategies include Mafia not claiming PGO, a different member of Mafia team claiming PGO to to real one, all Mafia claiming PGO (leaving 6 claims and only 4 real PGOs). The list is potentially endless.

I'm mostly excited about a whacky setup that could lead to very explosive short games, and some fun flavour.

I also considered another version in which Mafia had two bombs rather than the universal backup, and Town had one fewer rolecops. I think this would probably work better, but it's so difficult to tell given how ridiculous even approaching balance is here.

I recognise the setup is really bizarre, and wouldn't be able to mod it anyway for a few months (given account age). I wanted initial thoughts so I can roll it over in my head for the next little while and come up with something similar that IS balanced.

Something_Smart
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:29 am

If everyone claims D1, that guarantees at least four confirmed town, right? That plus two vigis and two cops seems... excessive, especially when scum have no way to block actions or otherwise punish massclaim. Mafia PGO is of marginal value since everyone can announce their target before the night.
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MargotRosa
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:47 am

I was thinking more that Scum have huge claim space, but you're right that mass claim could ruin that.

Possible fixes would be making vanilla Town a flag bearer, increasing # of Scum players, giving Scum a corresponding PR for each of Town's PR groups, etc.

Actually, what of Scum has a gunsmith, and can give one-shot guns to any player. Giving guns would explicitly resolve before all other actions at night. Would that fix the target announcing?

Something_Smart
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:49 am

Give guns as in giving vig shots? Why wouldn't they just give them to their partners? Or is this giving a compulsive PGO?
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MargotRosa
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:51 am

Basically, yeah. Idea being that if you announce kills, you are doing yourself a disservice. Maybe would need a specific modifier for mafia flag bearer to say that they cannot weird guns?

This may just be getting too complicated, but there's something here I think

MargotRosa
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:52 am

Maybe take out the Neighbourizer and replace with a Mafia goon

Something_Smart
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:59 am

Generally, if you want to have a setup with a lot of PR's, the safest thing is to make it semi-open, so either the PR's could be either alignment (like Pick Your Power X/Y), or not all the PR's will be in the game (like Stack the Deck), or there are a varying number of each PR (like Brass & Shrapnel).

To me, those all seem like better ideas than just upping the number of scum.

The PGO thing is on the right track, but that feels very punishing if they happen to get a good hit. I was thinking more along the lines of a roleblocker/rolestopper.
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MargotRosa
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:05 am

I shall sleep on it. I do like the semi-open idea. I started out originally planning a semi-open, with a very similar setup, except where all info was hidden to Town except that Mafia had a flagbearer. The other important change was that the two scum team mates were PGO bombs (where the order of operations would be Town action, bomb reaction, PGO reaction)

T3
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:42 pm

this looks like one of those weird crazy swingy setups that i see in chat mafia
overall i think this is balanced?
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MargotRosa
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:25 pm

Ok, new idea, plus a new role that I couldn't find an analogue for on the wiki

2 x Town Compulsive Vigilante
4 x Town Compulsive Fruit Vendor
1 x Town Paranoid Gun Owner
Town Compulsive Neighbourizer
2 x Vanilla Town

Lucid Mafia Flag Bearer
Night 0 active Mafia Paranoid Gun Owning Conspiracy Theorist
Lucid Mafia Universal Backup


Rules for a conspiracy theorist is that you visit a player each night and turn them into a paranoid gun owner. People you visit do not know they have become a PGO.
Rules for 'lucid' modifier is that you are immune to visits from a conspiracy theorist (however can become a PGO because of Universal Backup). You are also immune to being shot by PGOs if you visit them at night.

Town wins when every Mafia Flag Bearer is dead.

Mafia wins when it is impossible to stop Mafia from winning against Town (normal Mafia win condition, but with the caveat that 1v1 can lose rather than draw for a non lucid mafia if they are up against a PGO.

Cook
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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:34 pm

i'd rename conspiracy theorist to something else as it also is a common name for a role that detects aliens while investigating as alien

lucid is a good modifier, "aware of hidden effects or abilities"
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MargotRosa
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:47 pm

What about prepper?

In reference to end of the world, tells everyone to build a bunker and stock up on weaponry and beans preppers

MargotRosa
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:48 pm

So a prepper creates paranoid gun owners, and lucid modifieds are immune to preppers and PGOs

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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:19 pm

arms dealer feels better to me
bottom text

MargotRosa
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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:52 pm

In post 13, Gypyx wrote:arms dealer feels better to me


Do you mean as a name for a role that creates PGOs? Or do you mean a role that makes vigilantes?

If the first, I'm in favour, except that I think a few people will assume the meaning refers to the latter.

If you do mean the latter, then I worry that whatever pretence of balance the setup has is completely thrown out

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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:57 pm

To be fair, I'm worried that Arms Dealer might make people think that it is role which gives other roles One-Shot Day Vigilantes. At least, that was what I was thinking. I blame the fact that I know a site, where Arms Dealer does that.
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MargotRosa
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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:16 pm

Is something like Sovereign Citizen too on the nose?

Gypyx
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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:39 pm

In post 14, MargotRosa wrote:
In post 13, Gypyx wrote:arms dealer feels better to me


Do you mean as a name for a role that creates PGOs? Or do you mean a role that makes vigilantes?

If the first, I'm in favour, except that I think a few people will assume the meaning refers to the latter.

If you do mean the latter, then I worry that whatever pretence of balance the setup has is completely thrown out


i meant for PGO obviously, but as you wish really
bottom text

MargotRosa
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Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:06 am

Nice.

Ok, well I'm putting this in my back pocket for now, until I have the requirements to run it. If someone else wants to run it in the meantime, be my guest


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