[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
User avatar
Hectic
Hectic
Mad Hatter
User avatar
User avatar
Hectic
Mad Hatter
Mad Hatter
Posts: 9613
Joined: June 30, 2019
Location: Dire Dire Docks

Post Post #1150 (ISO) » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:47 am

Post by Hectic »

Could also enforce a posting limit, or a general no excessive spam rule (like a user filling up an entire page)
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #1151 (ISO) » Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:11 am

Post by Isis »

Those numbers look scumsided even for 2021 and even for Isis
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
Hectic
Hectic
Mad Hatter
User avatar
User avatar
Hectic
Mad Hatter
Mad Hatter
Posts: 9613
Joined: June 30, 2019
Location: Dire Dire Docks

Post Post #1152 (ISO) » Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:53 am

Post by Hectic »

How about:

100 Silver Heroics

30 Gold Heroics


25 of those silvers, and 8 of those golds are only introduced on day 2.

3 Silver
= Nominate shot
4 Silver
= New Neighbourhood shot
5 Silver
= Add player to neighbourhood shot
2 Gold
= Jailkeeper shot
3 Gold
= Bulletproof vest (passive 1 shot)
4 Gold
= Day Vigilante shot

I expect a small subset of the players to take heroic hunting a lot more seriously than others, so I expect some dayvigs to be bought even though 30/17 means an average of 1.76 gold per player
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #1153 (ISO) » Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:24 am

Post by Isis »

A dayvig has marginal effect on balance. There's so much kill prevention in the night play missing kills can't be interpreted..

I think the setup is not townsided at 100/50
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
Hectic
Hectic
Mad Hatter
User avatar
User avatar
Hectic
Mad Hatter
Mad Hatter
Posts: 9613
Joined: June 30, 2019
Location: Dire Dire Docks

Post Post #1154 (ISO) » Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:35 am

Post by Hectic »

Alright, what about:

Once 50% of all silvers have been attained, town gains another execution for the day
Once 50% of all golds have been attained, town gains another execution for the day

That's 2 more executions for town at some point in the game
User avatar
Jingle
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
User avatar
User avatar
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
For Whom the Bell Trolls
Posts: 15111
Joined: July 17, 2013
Location: Texas

Post Post #1155 (ISO) » Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:45 am

Post by Jingle »

There’s also the problem that a scum day vig is disproportionately more powerful than a town day vig and town power is very likely to be obvious when they buy.

Also cross targeting JKs is kinda icky.

I think your game is going to be a lot more vanilla than intended.

You could throw in a fairly inexpensive achievement cop and an expensive investigative role (watcher?) but as is I think you’re just heading towards a mostly mountainous game.
This is a Parachute.
User avatar
Hectic
Hectic
Mad Hatter
User avatar
User avatar
Hectic
Mad Hatter
Mad Hatter
Posts: 9613
Joined: June 30, 2019
Location: Dire Dire Docks

Post Post #1156 (ISO) » Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:27 am

Post by Hectic »

Gotcha, Jungle (your achievement unlocked game is what inspired this if it wasn't obvious btw)

80 Silver Heroics

24 Gold Heroics


10 new silvers and 3 new golds introduced per day

3 Silver
= Nominate shot
4 Silver
= New Neighbourhood with someone (day)
5 Silver
= Add player to neighbourhood (day)
5 Silver
= Heroics cop (see amount of silvers and golds a player has)
2 Gold
= Jailkeeper shot
3 Gold
= Bulletproof vest (passive 1 shot)
4 Gold
= Watcher shot
4 Gold
= Day Vigilante shot (public and must be used immediately)

+

Once 50% of all silvers have been attained, town gains another execution for the day
Once 50% of all golds have been attained, town gains another execution for the day
Last edited by Hectic on Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #1157 (ISO) » Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:01 am

Post by Isis »

The dayvig is sus, as Jingle points out. It could mitigate their strength if they were forced to be used immediately and publicly
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
Jingle
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
User avatar
User avatar
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
For Whom the Bell Trolls
Posts: 15111
Joined: July 17, 2013
Location: Texas

Post Post #1158 (ISO) » Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:25 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 1156, Hectic wrote:achievement unlocked game
I uh... Don't remember that tbh. :P

I'd probably be willing to play this as a 13:4 with the right list but I'm honestly not convinced it's balanced. There's a certain value to knowing what you're getting yourself into that makes me more willing to try weird departures from the norm like this though.
This is a Parachute.
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #1159 (ISO) » Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:28 pm

Post by Isis »

I'm convinced the scum have an advantage going into the game but it will probably be a fun time right
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
Jingle
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
User avatar
User avatar
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
For Whom the Bell Trolls
Posts: 15111
Joined: July 17, 2013
Location: Texas

Post Post #1160 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:02 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 1156, Hectic wrote:(your achievement unlocked game is what inspired this if it wasn't obvious btw)
I looked it up, this was a ducky and S_S game. I'm flattered that you'd assume it was me, but I'm not solely responsible for all of the weird mutations on site. :P
This is a Parachute.
User avatar
Hectic
Hectic
Mad Hatter
User avatar
User avatar
Hectic
Mad Hatter
Mad Hatter
Posts: 9613
Joined: June 30, 2019
Location: Dire Dire Docks

Post Post #1161 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:46 am

Post by Hectic »

lol oops

I thought you were in the Professor Moriarty mod account for some reason
User avatar
Hectic
Hectic
Mad Hatter
User avatar
User avatar
Hectic
Mad Hatter
Mad Hatter
Posts: 9613
Joined: June 30, 2019
Location: Dire Dire Docks

Post Post #1162 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:01 am

Post by Hectic »

I'll make the watcher cost 3 gold instead and roll with that I think
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #1163 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:07 am

Post by Isis »

Keep it at 4. Watcher is so strong.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
Hectic
Hectic
Mad Hatter
User avatar
User avatar
Hectic
Mad Hatter
Mad Hatter
Posts: 9613
Joined: June 30, 2019
Location: Dire Dire Docks

Post Post #1164 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:30 am

Post by Hectic »

Alright

The playerlist that joins will probably be townsided by nature so I'm sure it'll be fine
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #1165 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:56 am

Post by Isis »

Tryna shit on my scumgame to my face do you wanna fuckn go right now Hectic I got a parking lot right here
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
Jingle
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
User avatar
User avatar
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
For Whom the Bell Trolls
Posts: 15111
Joined: July 17, 2013
Location: Texas

Post Post #1166 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:39 am

Post by Jingle »

Isis's scumgame so good she doesn't even have to ban the players who scumread her to win. Agreed that watcher below 4 would be too cheap. You could maybe play around with a mechanic to allow the sharing of Achievement Points depending on how likely it is all the achievements actually happen. The less points in play the more reasonable that option becomes.
This is a Parachute.
User avatar
northsidegal
northsidegal
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
northsidegal
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 11587
Joined: August 23, 2017

Post Post #1167 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:00 am

Post by northsidegal »

would be interested in any feedback here
wiki | modded | Newbie NewD3 Stats | scripts

things fall apart
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Gamma Emerald
She/It
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 69101
Joined: August 9, 2016
Pronoun: She/It
Location: Hell on Earth (aka Texas)

Post Post #1168 (ISO) » Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:34 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 1165, Isis wrote:Tryna shit on my scumgame to my face do you wanna fuckn go right now Hectic I got a parking lot right here
...
I'm not afraid to say I think your scumgame needs work, if Haunted Village was any indication
<Embrace The Void>


My pronouns are she and it, please respect that. I don't mind the occasional slip.
User avatar
Isis
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
User avatar
User avatar
Isis
she/her, not they
Best in Class
Best in Class
Posts: 11219
Joined: April 6, 2020
Pronoun: she/her, not they
Location: Seattle

Post Post #1169 (ISO) » Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:06 pm

Post by Isis »

I really doubt that was my median scumgame
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
User avatar
Ruby Red
Ruby Red
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Ruby Red
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1331
Joined: April 9, 2018

Post Post #1170 (ISO) » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:21 am

Post by Ruby Red »

Crossfire Vengeful
4 Vengeful Mafioso

9 Vengeful Townies

Nightless.
Each player may vote for as many players as they like (a single vote on each).
Votes are not reset after an elim occurs (so combo elims can occur if someone else was on L-1 with the person who was eliminated not voting for that person).
Deadline for the entire game is 14 days. Town lose if the deadline is reached.

Mafia win by achieving parity with the town. Town win when all mafia are dead.

the first crossfire was such a hit, it's time for the sequel

gonna toss this one in the old queue right now, this is mainly here to link to it although you guys can talk about the balance or whatever if you want
User avatar
Something_Smart
Something_Smart
He/him
Somewhat_Balanced
User avatar
User avatar
Something_Smart
He/him
Somewhat_Balanced
Somewhat_Balanced
Posts: 23115
Joined: November 17, 2015
Pronoun: He/him
Location: Upstate New York

Post Post #1171 (ISO) » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:04 am

Post by Something_Smart »

vengeful town + vengeful scum has this weird issue that it's better to execute scummy townies than to execute scum, which creates some really strange incentives. Just my $0.02.

Also, a town vengekill is in theory (and probably also in practice) no better than an execution (except that it can't trigger another vengekill), but a mafia vengekill is obviously much better for mafia than an execution. If the original Crossfire was balanced I'd expect this to be pretty scumsided.
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
User avatar
Ruby Red
Ruby Red
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Ruby Red
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1331
Joined: April 9, 2018

Post Post #1172 (ISO) » Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:10 am

Post by Ruby Red »

original was probs pretty townsided

the wiki says 4:9 EV is 52% so meh. town gets a venge in lylo so unlike most setups there's never gonna be a scum quickhammer to end it
User avatar
Jingle
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
User avatar
User avatar
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
For Whom the Bell Trolls
Posts: 15111
Joined: July 17, 2013
Location: Texas

Post Post #1173 (ISO) » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:00 am

Post by Jingle »

How do you deal with sequencing?

Like, if I set up a situation where a vote hammered someone which then hammered someone else which then hammered someone else, would the hammers all resolve and then the venges or would the venges resolve between each vote count check?
This is a Parachute.
User avatar
Gypyx
Gypyx
She/Her
Virtute Ex Machina
User avatar
User avatar
Gypyx
She/Her
Virtute Ex Machina
Virtute Ex Machina
Posts: 7259
Joined: March 25, 2020
Pronoun: She/Her
Location: France

Post Post #1174 (ISO) » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:05 am

Post by Gypyx »

original crossfire had only the first hammer resolve, no simultaneous stuff
bottom text
Post Reply

Return to “Open Setup Discussion”