[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
quadz08
President Weiner
 
User avatar
Joined: May 30, 2010
Location: where the wily things are
Pronoun: He

Post Post #550  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:58 am

The wiki is publicly editable by any user of the site, except for specific pages. Unapproved setups get their own pages fairly regularly.
Current Avatar: Kronk. Duh.

Kaiveran
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: November 12, 2008
Pronoun: E (e/em/eir/eirs/emself)

Post Post #551  (ISO)  » Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:43 pm

In post 549, reinoe wrote:I have a problem with a setup that's not approved having it's own wiki page. Aren't there enough vanity Open setups that have only been used once or none clogging up the Open games setups?


This setup is probably getting a trial run soon, so it's not going to be unused as you say, hopefully. I felt that a wiki article was the best way to explain and present the setup. I understand that vanity pages are a problem, and if it does end up being aborted before it runs, I will gladly delete the article.

Therefore, please criticize the game, and not the manner in which it is delivered.
hi i am a kai i do kai things hello
------
TWO-FOLD C9++ is in trial runs. We'll see you again soon.

wgeurts
Community Contributor
Community Contributor
 
User avatar
Joined: September 16, 2014
Location: The Netherlands
Pronoun: He

Post Post #552  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:52 am

Elemental Mafia1 Fire Mafia
1 Water Mafia
1 Earth Mafia

3 Elemental Doctors
1 Macho Tracker
9 VT's



  • Elemental Doctors choose an element as well as a target for their protection. They only protect from kills from the mafia with that element.
  • Mafia have 2 faction-kills, each taken by a different member. If only 1 remains he them takes both of them.
  • The element of a mafia isn't revealed on their death.
  • Flavour shouldn't help the town figure out which elements are alive/dead.
Last edited by wgeurts on Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Quilford
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: March 11, 2011
Location: 한국어 교실

Post Post #553  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:53 am

I feel like that setup is functionally identical to one with three goons with two NKs and 3 VTs in place of the doctors

wgeurts
Community Contributor
Community Contributor
 
User avatar
Joined: September 16, 2014
Location: The Netherlands
Pronoun: He

Post Post #554  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:07 am

In post 553, Quilford wrote:I feel like that setup is functionally identical to one with three goons with two NKs and 3 VTs in place of the doctors

?

Quilford
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: March 11, 2011
Location: 한국어 교실

Post Post #555  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:17 pm

What are the point of the elements, other than to serve to make the doctors' lives harder?

If a VT is lynched Day 1, for example, each doctor has a 1/21 chance of making a save that Night. So the chances of anyone being saved that Night are about 14%, which is almost exactly the same as just replacing the 3 Elemental Doctors with 1 regular Doctor and 2 VTs and making the Mafia team 3 normal Goons with two nightkills per night.

Guyett
Hammering Hammered
 
User avatar
Joined: June 09, 2013
Location: Sunny Ireland
Pronoun: He

Post Post #556  (ISO)  » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:13 pm

I have a setup I'd like looked over to be sure it's ok for an open game. It's been tested off site and most players enjoyed it.
Thor: You are the worst player this game has seen.

BBmolla
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: May 29, 2011
Pronoun: He

Post Post #557  (ISO)  » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:53 pm

Post it g money

Guyett
Hammering Hammered
 
User avatar
Joined: June 09, 2013
Location: Sunny Ireland
Pronoun: He

Post Post #558  (ISO)  » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:00 pm

3 Mafia
3 Mafia
3 Mafia
3 Masons
1 Gunsmith
6 Vanilla Townies

Day chat happens
Each group (mafia and mason) have 1 gun and 1 bulletproof vest each.
No one person is assigned these items, they can rotate them between themselves.
However one person CANNOT wear the vest and carry the gun at the same time.
Gunsmith only gets a guilty on someone carrying a gun the night of the investigation.

We just finished the first game of it on my other site (we ran it with 5 VT instead of 6 VT and town won)
Thor: You are the worst player this game has seen.

BBmolla
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: May 29, 2011
Pronoun: He

Post Post #559  (ISO)  » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:30 pm

Half the game is scum, the day phase is going to be shit.

Gunsmith gets guilties on all mafia? With 9 mafia and false positives, he seems pretty damned pointless.

Iecerint
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: May 14, 2009
Location: Bluegrass
Pronoun: He

Post Post #560  (ISO)  » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:40 pm

In post 555, Quilford wrote:What are the point of the elements, other than to serve to make the doctors' lives harder?

If a VT is lynched Day 1, for example, each doctor has a 1/21 chance of making a save that Night. So the chances of anyone being saved that Night are about 14%, which is almost exactly the same as just replacing the 3 Elemental Doctors with 1 regular Doctor and 2 VTs and making the Mafia team 3 normal Goons with two nightkills per night.

Fakeclaiming will be different and it's fun to be an element. ^_^

And the doctors get stronger as scum are lynched (if I'm assuming that doctor can choose their elemental protection each night).

Guyett
Hammering Hammered
 
User avatar
Joined: June 09, 2013
Location: Sunny Ireland
Pronoun: He

Post Post #561  (ISO)  » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:03 am

In post 559, BBmolla wrote:Half the game is scum, the day phase is going to be shit.

Gunsmith gets guilties on all mafia? With 9 mafia and false positives, he seems pretty damned pointless.


Gunsmith only gets guilties on people carrying the gun the night of the investigation. ETL has played the setup on the other site and even though there was as many scum as town it was pretty evenly balanced, especially as a 3 mafia multiball.

Here's what happened in that game:

No-one was lynched day 1 (deadline passed while someone was L-1, that person was blue scum)

Gunsmith investigated a VT, got innocent
Masons shoot a VT
Brown Mafia shoot a Mason
Red Mafia shoot Brown Mafia
Blue Mafia shoot Mason, this shot failed as the mason was wearing the vest

Brown Mafia got lynched day 2

Gunsmith investigated a VT, got innocent
Mason shoot Blue Mafia
Blue Mafia shoot Brown Mafia, this failed as the last remaining brown scum wore the vest instead of shooting
Brown Mafia wore the vest
Red Mafia shoot a VT

Blue Mafia got lynched day 3

Gunsmith investigate last remaining Blue Mafia, Blue Mafia choose to wear a vest instead of shooting so the result is innocent
Mason shoot a VT
Blue Mafia wears the vest
Brown Mafia gets brave and shoots Red Mafia
Red Mafia shoot a VT

Last Brown Mafia gets lynched day 4

Gunsmith investigates a Mason, gets a guilty as the mason used the gun that night
Mason shoots Blue Mafia
Blue Mafia gets brave and shoots Red Mafia
Red Mafia shoots Mason

This leaves the Gunsmith, One Mason, One VT and One Red Mafia left day 5;
Red Mafia is lynched day 5
Thor: You are the worst player this game has seen.

ArcAngel9
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: December 11, 2012
Location: India
Pronoun: She

Post Post #562  (ISO)  » Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:36 am

I want to run a Mega PopCorn Open setup(as large or medium large game). the existing Popcorn mafia is a 11P game with 7 townies and 4 mafia goons. For those who are not familiar with the setup. Please See this. There have been several feedbacks about Popcorn being very town sided but in the past the games have moderated had 50/50 results.

And now, I have few changes in the setup and want to see if this can be workable.

11p Townies (includes 1 gun bearer)
3p Mafia Goons
3p Mafia Vengeful Goons
(Night Less, Mafia will have a day talk)


If Gun Bearer hits Vengeful goon, they die with them and Mafia will have to select another Gun bearer.

I need opinions on this setup and if this balances both factions equally. Appreciate your feedback on this!!!

Thanks a lot!!!
In a time of ancient gods, warlords and kings, a land in turmoil cried out for a hero. She was Xena, a mighty princess forged in the heat of battle. The power, the passion, the danger. Her courage will change the world -Xena Warrior Princess, Coming Soon!!

BBmolla
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: May 29, 2011
Pronoun: He

Post Post #563  (ISO)  » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:45 pm

Forest Fire by Micc
Modern Trio by Cogito Ergo Sum
Grey Flag by callforjudgement
Shortnight by BBmolla
09:12 by Bicephalous Bob
11P Multiball by shos
Sharing is Caring by BBmolla
Law, Order and Shallow Relationships by Bicephalous Bob
Kill all Townies by BBmolla

Gonna look at all these setups.

I think Elemental Large is also really bleh.

BBmolla
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: May 29, 2011
Pronoun: He

Post Post #564  (ISO)  » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:55 pm

Like, Elemental Large seems to be strategic at first, but in my opinion it's just super luck based, all depends if you choose A, B, or C and you can lose the game if you choose incorrectly.

I'd be upset if I lost the entire game just because I chose to protect with Fire instead of Water or whatever. Super bleh imo.

lufan131
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: March 25, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #565  (ISO)  » Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:28 pm

Do open setups have to also be normal? Or provided I use the 3-4 accepted alignments, can I use whatever role I want to?

BBmolla
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: May 29, 2011
Pronoun: He

Post Post #566  (ISO)  » Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:39 pm

Open Setups can use anything.

So no, it doesn't have to be normal.

lufan131
Goon
 
User avatar
Joined: March 25, 2015
Pronoun: He

Post Post #567  (ISO)  » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:34 pm

Two-Faced Mafia
Town Motion Detector
Town Cop
Town CPR Doctor
4 VT
Mafia Jailkeeper
Mafia Inventor (Vengeful 25%, Acetic 25%, or Hated 50%.)
1-shot Bulletproof Serial killer

Ether
Lyrical Rampage
 
User avatar
Joined: July 24, 2006
Location: New Jersey
Pronoun: She

Post Post #568  (ISO)  » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:59 pm

You should post new setups in this thread, not here. They get taken here if there's interest in them.

With that said, that's kind of all over the place. What's the point of the mafia inventor, especially given that its boon is completely random? Why does a 10-player game need a town power role that can be used as a vig, let alone both that and a serial killer? Is there a reason for the name "Two-Faced?" I...guess it's kind of interesting that there's a motion detector in a game where over half of the game have night actions, but in general there just isn't a lot of rhyme or reason to the roles in this setup.

I had comments on the micros and larges back in the contest thread, which I can repost if people care.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and LOUDER

BBmolla
Survivor
 
User avatar
Joined: May 29, 2011
Pronoun: He

Post Post #569  (ISO)  » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:08 pm

Yeah do imo

Ether
Lyrical Rampage
 
User avatar
Joined: July 24, 2006
Location: New Jersey
Pronoun: She

Post Post #570  (ISO)  » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:33 pm

Ether wrote:Forest Fire:
Maybe! It'll be kind of weirdly long for a micro, between the tree stumps and the fact that mafia won't be killing most nights. If you hate how you always die in mafia games and you have to stop talking, this is the game for you. This might be townsided, but it's hard to say, because as we've just established, towns are kind of dumb.

Modern Trio:
Eh, seems all right. (Gaolers aren't really modern, though. They've been around for a long, long time. That doesn't make them any less classy.)

Grey Flag Nightless:
I do like setups that force scum to behave differently. At nine players and only one nightkill across the game, it's a large enough game that I'd kind of expect those EVs to mean it's a bit townsided in practice. I'm probably overestimating town, though.

09:12:
I think the clock format is interesting, but the roles themselves just seem haphazardly thrown in. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to what obscure roles got added (why do you need both a follower and a rolecop?), or what got paired up with what. (Do the babysitter and the mafia roleblocker really need to be together? Can't you just let the poor thing have its vengekill?) I guess at least the strongman was sandwiched between two protective roles (what happens when a jailer and a doctor target each other? This needs to be determined beforehand), so there's that. I say all this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's fun to play.

Kill All Townies:
Huh. Maybe? It's hard to think about how a game of this would actually go. But I kind of like the idea of keeping town lynches up when they're often drowned out in multiball games, and it's an interesting strategy element for scum. I'm not sold on giving the town a vig, though...and at the same time, this setup still faces the standard multiball issue that town can lose the majority entirely while the game still lurches on.

Elemental Large:
The whole schtick seems completely arbitrary. Is there any strategy to which kill to use? Then eventually you kill two doctors, and the other two become completely useless except as named townies, because even if a scumbag dies, its teammates will pick up its element anyway. The serial killer makes this swingier, but it can be outed at any point by the tracker--there isn't a ton of concern for its wellbeing, and honestly just not that much reason for it to exist. I think a large game with scum themed as elements could be interesting, but this isn't the way to do it.


I kind of want to design a semiopen template based on that asymmetrical Elemental premise. Semiopen templates don't get enough love on this site.

I posted Watcher Multiball years ago. I usually dislike town watchers, at least in closed setups...but they're pretty cool scum roles in multiball games, forcing the scum to outguess each other and giving them incentives to get into fights. So yeah, 11 PM's interesting. I just hope the scum don't consistently wipe each other out.

Sharing is Caring...kind of interesting. I don't think it's optimal for the vig to ever use its power, meaning the mafia doctor's not much use either, but since the vig is an individual player who might really want to kill someone, that's a matter of restraint and it's not a bad thing.

Law, Order and Shallow Relationships is swingy and random and WIFOM-soaked and it is not my thing. But it's someone else's, so I guess there's that.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and LOUDER

Kagami
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: November 05, 2013

Post Post #571  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:43 pm

Seeking approval for the following Open

2 Mafia Goons
2 Mason Suicide Bombers
9 Vanilla Town


Instant Night.
Daychat for all PTs.
Bombers don't end the day.


The setup is essentially an open version of Spyrex's POWERFUL SPELLBOOK mafia.

From an EV perspective, it's slightly more townsided than mountainous because of the presence of masons. In practice, there's an additional townsided element from the mason voting block and also the potential fear in the scum of pushing a suicide bomber. The higher rate of death also reduces town apathy.

Bicephalous Bob
Mafia Scum
 
User avatar
Joined: June 04, 2013
Location: I don't know why you're linking me to pictures of babies on Facebook
Pronoun: He

Post Post #572  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:17 pm

the freaky town/scum ratio isn't really necessary

given that 3 VTs/2 masons/2 goons is pretty close to the 40% EV mark, 5 VTs/2 sb masons/2 goons should be reasonably balanced
Ach so! Aber wieso?

Kagami
Jack of All Trades
 
User avatar
Joined: November 05, 2013

Post Post #573  (ISO)  » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:38 pm

Policy: Lynch a random player, if the player is a mason SB, he instead bombs a random non-mason. Mafia kills random non-mafia.

5 VTs/2 mason sbs/2 goons has EV ~45% under the policy
9 VTs/2 mason sbs/2 goons has EV ~50% under the policy

I don't see any reason to prefer the smaller, somewhat less balanced setup.

EDIT: Simplified.

Ether
Lyrical Rampage
 
User avatar
Joined: July 24, 2006
Location: New Jersey
Pronoun: She

Post Post #574  (ISO)  » Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:34 pm

Trying to get extra opinions for a game I'm about to run!

Ether wrote:The Odds (10 players)
2 mafia
vs.
7 vanilla townies
1 doctor

Normally that would give each player a 20% chance of being scum, but in The Odds, different people have different chances ranging from 5% to 35%, and their chances are on public display on the front page. (If who gets what percentage is decided nonrandomly, I don't think that detracts from the game at all. Some people like a certain alignment more, or like the danger of having higher odds, and will find the game more fun if they have a say in it.) The doctor is weighted the same way, so a player with a higher percentage is much more likely to be scum or the doctor.
Ether wrote:To figure out the scum, I'll roll two numbers between 1 and 40. Each percentage corresponds to different numbers:
    5% - 1
    10% - 2-3
    15% - 4-6
    15% - 7-9
    20% - 10-13
    20% - 14-17
    25% - 18-22
    25% - 23-27
    30% - 28-33
    35% - 34-40
(Note that even the player most likely to be scum still has about 2 out of 3 odds of being town.)


That was the version the last time I posted it! (Although now I'm leaning toward not tying the town power role to the odds.) But I'm not sure it's enough for the town.

The current version has a town gaoler, and gives the mafia daytalk and a 1-shot factional roleblock to snipe the gaoler if it claims. People I've spoken to seem to like that one fine, but I'm worried now that that would be a pretty balanced 10-player setup even without the odds mechanic.
As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder and LOUDER

PreviousNext
[ + ]

Return to Open Setup Discussion