[OLD] Open/Semi-Open Design Challenge

[mith]

We're finally back on track with getting cards published, and while we finalize the card list and text, we are coming up with a list of example setups to include in the rulebook. We have a number of setups which are on the approved open list, but would like to get a bit more variety both in terms of player-count and roles used, so I thought it would be a good idea to solicit ideas from you guys.

Rules for all submissions:
1. Setups must be open or semi-open, and must have a limited number of rules beyond what is on the role cards. Common variants (e.g. Nightless) which can be easily described in the rulebook and attached as a one or two word modifier to the setup are fine.
2. Most roles are limited to 1 in number; the following are exceptions: Mafia Goon (Many), Vanilla Town (Many), Mafia Lover (2), Town Lover (2), Werewolf (3), Mason (3), Vengeful Town (4).
3. Most roles on the Normal whitelist are allowed. Roles which don't make sense for FTF games are excluded (i.e. Neighbor, Mafia Encryptor). I will not give a complete list at this time - if you end up using a role which is currently not on the list, it might persuade us to make changes!
4. All setups assume a day start.

You can submit any setup you like; however, we are specifically looking for setups which fill gaps on our current list. Specific challenges include:
1. Even count (6, 8) and/or Non-micro setups (10-13 players). We have lots of 7/9 player setups.
2. Setups making use of any of the following roles: Mafia Godfather, Mafia Doctor, Mafia Suicide Bomber, Mafia Traitor, Mafia Ninja, Mafia Silencer, Town Bodyguard, Town Vigilante, Town Innocent Child, Town Miller, Town Beloved Princess.

Feel free to discuss any ideas in this thread. If we get enough participation, I am considering holding a marathon day in the near future to do a quick playtest of some of the setups. (I am also considering a final selection/voting process to declare a winner for the challenge, with a prize of a one deck of cards - international shipping may be separate in that, details when I decide on it.)

[zoraster]

Question: how are you handling modifiers? Will, for example, a 1-shot vig be its own card, will there be a modifier card or will you just not do any modifiers? I ask because 1-shot killing role is a pretty good way to get even numbers back to odd. Alternative is to start with night, but that's even lamer in face to face than it is in forum.

[animorpherv1]

Is there a prize? Every challenge has a prize!

[shaft.ed]

Question: how are you handling modifiers? Will, for example, a 1-shot vig be its own card, will there be a modifier card or will you just not do any modifiers? I ask because 1-shot killing role is a pretty good way to get even numbers back to odd. Alternative is to start with night, but that's even lamer in face to face than it is in forum.

I think if its an open setup you can just say "vig card draw = 1 shot dayvig" or something of that nature

[quadz08]

Modifiers are currently planned to be handled using reusable stickers that say things such as "1-shot," "2-shot," etc.

[Quilford]

Where do we submit?

[Voidedmafia]

What is this for, btw? I'm assuming it's not referring to the Open queue based on the mention of cards, but if it's not that then I'm a little confused

Those roles do give me some ideas for some micro/normal games, though.

[animorpherv1]

What is this for, btw? I'm assuming it's not referring to the Open queue based on the mention of cards, but if it's not that then I'm a little confused

They're getting a set of playing cards ready to distribute.

[shaft.ed]

For an 8 player set up what about:

Mafia Goon
Mafia Lover
Town Lover
4 Townies
Jester

[zoraster]

is jester fun in f2f in a way that it is not in forum?

[Axxle]

Shorter games means setups on the slightly bastard side are more hilarious than frustrating.

[Voidedmafia]

is jester fun in f2f in a way that it is not in forum?

Something tells me that the answer is no.

It looks good sans the Jester, though, give or take 1 VT. Idk if adding 1 or 2 more townies (or 1 townie and 1 scum) would make the same setup work with a Vig, though.

couple more ideas:
1 Mafia Doctor
1 Town Vigilante
1-2 Mafia Goons
8-9 VTs

I'm not sure if it'd be better as 9:2, 10:2, or 10:3. I lean more 10:3, but...


1 Innocent Child
1 Bodyguard
2 Mafia Goons
4 VTs

hmmm...maybe this kind of night WIFOM-style game requires more than just 4 VTs. I don't

think

it does, but then I'm not a game-balancing guru.

Reading over the Beloved Princess role indicates that the IC could be replaced with the Princess, but then I think that it HAS to be at least 10-11 players at that point to properly compensate for the missed day. (I'm assuming that the "missed day" part of the role implies that scum get to pull off two NKs back-to-back).

Alternatively:
1 Beloved Princess/Innocent Child
1 Bodyguard
1 Mafia Suicide Bomber
1 Goon
4 or 6 VTs


Any ideas what Silencer does? There's no page on the wiki if I put in "silencer" or "mafia silencer". My wildest stab would be that if the silencer does the kill and the kill lands on a PR with an active ability (Cop, doctor, etc.), the PR's ability will not go off that night unless the PR is protected by the NK, but that sounds too farfetched. Certainly an interesting role, now that I think on it, though.

[hr]

...I just realized that you're talking about live games.

P-EDIT: eh,

possibly

, but there's an inherent level of non-fun-ness in a Jester role that IMO makes it fun only for the player who draws it.

I also feel like there's a 13-player Pick Your Assassin, wherein town choose 2 of four Mafia killing roles within Suicide Bomber, Ninja, silencer (assuming it's used as a killing role), and...maybe Strongman, with the 3rd member being a regular goon. And if those kinds of games are supposed to have a picking roulette for the town side, it'd probably be 2 PRs out of cop, bodyguard, doctor, and rolecop or something.

[saulres]

reusable stickers

Yay colorforms!

[BBmolla]

Alternatively:
1 Beloved Princess/Innocent Child
1 Bodyguard
1 Mafia Suicide Bomber
1 Goon
4 or 6 VTs

Holy shit, Voided I literally posted an almost identical setup earlier today in the hidden forums
(Also, according to the card atm, the Beloved Princess is the version that causes the next day to be skipped if lynched.)

8 player setup:

In Another Castle

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Suicide Bomber
3 Vanilla Townies
1 Town Bodygaurd
2 - Choose from

• [Town Beloved Princess, Vanilla Townie]
  
• [Town Lover, Town Lover]

Edit: Here's the other setup I suggested.

9 player setup:

Son of the Cop

If the miller dies, the cop may not investigate at night anymore.

2 Mafia Goons
1 Town Cop
1 Town Miller
5 Vanilla Town

Edit2: No Jester in the deck, sorry folks. There is a lyncher and serial killer.

Edit3: Here's a bunch of birds with one stone.

12 player setup:

Classic Rivals

1 Mafia Ninja
1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia Doctor
1 Town Cop
1 Town Tracker
1 Town Vig
6 Vanilla Town

Player size might be arguable, but every PR can affect 2 out of the 3 mafia if all 3 mafia are alive, and I think that's very elegent.
12 players - 3 (lynch, kill, vig) = 9 which is ideal imo.
I feel like this is an existing Epicmafia setup but idk

Edit4: Innocent Child is version that chooses when they want to flip.

[shaft.ed]

is jester fun in f2f in a way that it is not in forum?

The Jester is needed to counterclaim the town lover. Otherwise they claim, get lynched and one scum is gone. The lover pair then becomes pointless and you have a game of one Goon vs. however many VTs you put in the game.

Jester at least can counter the Town lover for a 50% win chance. And should create an interesting dynamic for the mafia NK choice.

Setup could still suck balls, but it seemed like a way to do 8 players, and try using a hated role in a way people might find intruiging

[Voidedmafia]

Holy shit, Voided I literally posted an almost identical setup earlier today in the hidden forums

Edit4: Innocent Child is version that chooses when they want to flip

1. What does this mean?

2. Shouldn't that be called, like, Spiteful Child?

8/10 player setup:

I can't Help you Twice

1 Mafia Suicide Bomber
1 Mafia Doctor with a 1-shot protection on the Bomber specifically
1 Doctor/Bodyguard
4 Vanilla Townies
1 of Innocent Child or Beloved Princess

13 player setup:

Night's Dirty Work

1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia Traitor
1 Goon/Mafia Ninja?
1 Town Rolecop
1 Town Trainee (becomes Rolecop should the Rolecop die before it)
1 Town Miller
6 Vanilla Townies

Notes: Could possibly use less VTs than that.
Rolecop could also be Cop, perhaps.

[quadz08]

the Beloved Princess is the version that causes the next day to be skipped if lynched

there's another version of beloved princess?

[shaft.ed]

setup pairing a beloved princess with a super saint/vengeful townie could be interesting

[Toomai]

Any ideas what Silencer does? There's no page on the wiki if I put in "silencer" or "mafia silencer". My wildest stab would be that if the silencer does the kill and the kill lands on a PR with an active ability (Cop, doctor, etc.), the PR's ability will not go off that night unless the PR is protected by the NK, but that sounds too farfetched. Certainly an interesting role, now that I think on it, though.

I believe the Silencer's target cannot speak the next day.

[Prof Fridays]

Just wanted to throw in my support for BBMolla's 12-player set-up. Elegant is a good word for it. I wonder if adding the condition of the Miller/Cop tie in the 9-player set-up is good for the sake of simplicity/clarity? I feel like for a card-version of the game, each role card needs to function the same. I feel like if I buy a card-version of mafia, I'm going to want to introduce it to my group of friends, who play party games similar to mafia, but aren't involved in forum mafia and are thus less familiar with its nuances. Basically, added complexity can needlessly limit your potential player pool, if that makes sense.

Perhaps I'm a bit off-base and don't fully understand the project?

[The Bulge]

Cover Me

3 Mafia Goons
1 Bulletproof Bodyguard
1 Backup Bulletproof Bodyguard
1 Hider
6-7 Vanilla Townies

- Bodyguard cannot be directly killed by the Mafia
- If the Hider hides with the Bodyguard and the Bodyguard dies using its protect, the Hider dies as well

Not sure about this balance-wise, so if anyone could point out any problems that would be great. I have quite a few adjustments in mind if needed.

[Faraday]

I'm not sure if it'd be better as 9:2, 10:2, or 10:3. I lean more 10:3, but...

Yeah, 10:3 with PR's is fine on the forum, so perfectly fine in f2f.

[shaft.ed]

why would a bulletproof bodyguard ever protect anyone?

[The Bulge]

why would a bulletproof bodyguard ever protect anyone?

Dammit.
Maybe if he was 1-Shot

[The Bulge]

Or compulsive