[OLD] Open/Semi-Open Design Challenge

ISO · Post Post #100 (ISO) » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:30 am

(Or I lied and didn't have time. Soon, though.)

PHANTOM · Post Post #101 (ISO) » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:46 am

Oh boy! Taking a stab here, let's see what people think of this:

Miller Madness (8p)1 Doc
1 Cop
1 Mafia goon
1 Mafia godfather?? (not sure if this is too powerful, might be fine with just a regular goon instead)

Plus one of the following randomly determined:
* 0 Millers, 4 VT
* 1 Miller, 3 VT
* 2 Millers, 2 VT

In addition, millers should not know that they are a miller, and to them will just appear as a VT.

BBmolla · Post Post #102 (ISO) » Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:02 pm

In post 101, PHANTOM wrote:In addition, millers should not know that they are a miller, and to them will just appear as a VT.

Once again, not possible in face to face.

Titus · Post Post #103 (ISO) » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:16 pm

It is with a mod.

BBmolla · Post Post #104 (ISO) » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:20 pm

But why play a setup face to face with a mod

Edit: Why play an open setup face to face with a mod

tn5421 · Post Post #105 (ISO) » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:36 am

Doesn't the variable amount of millers make it semiopen?

Cheery Dog · Post Post #106 (ISO) » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:43 pm

In post 105, tn5421 wrote:Doesn't the variable amount of millers make it semiopen?

Semi-opens can be played just as well without a mod, it just involves some extra shuffling followed by discarding.

ISO · Post Post #107 (ISO) » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:00 am

Will be leaving this open for the rest of this week (hopefully will be able to go through the setups in that time frame), and Monday should have a shortlist of setups for possible inclusion in the rulebook, at which time I may open up the Marathon forum for testing them.

ISO · Post Post #108 (ISO) » Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:10 am

And an additional challenge role: Supersaint. (We have SS3, I'm not convinced that this warrants a separate card over just using a blank.)

ISO · Post Post #109 (ISO) » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:42 am

Spoiler: BBmolla

Prefer the Rolecop version, yeah. And if we make Cop-Enabler a sticker, we don't even need the extra rules.

Spoiler: BBmolla

Probably ok, and your version of Traitor is what I prefer. Don't love Suicide Bomber as a fix for Jailkeeper claim (I would just take the trade if I were the JK), but Doctor and Traitor nerf the JK's investigative ability to the point that I doubt a JK claim is that good.

Spoiler: Prof Fridays

Spoiler: Aronis

90% certain cult is
in expansion
torn into little pieces in a fire atm

FTFM.

Spoiler: Aronis

Combo roles like this won't fly, unless we include stickers for roles as well as modifiers (probably not). Not a fan of concentrating all the power in one role anyway, would rather see it spread out.

Spoiler: Aronis

Reasonable (assuming we go with the Miller sticker). JK needs to stop a kill to gain a lynch. Roleblocker-JK combo I could do without.

Spoiler: Voidedmafia

Non-normal role, probably not. This one looks pretty tough on Mafia.

Spoiler: Bullish

The balance at either end seems off, especially 1/2/3 (2:6 with a Doctor and nothing else is already tough on the town, and you're adding something that completely negates the Doctor and also an extra Vengekill for the scum). I would do some rearranging, get rid of the Vengeful part (put Doctor on one end, and maybe add a one-shot Vig on the other, so in those games the town has a chance to get an extra lynch).

Spoiler: FakeGod

Like, and I think we've established it's balanced.

Spoiler: xfdagentz42

Assuming that's supposed to read "Vengeful Town"... Probably not too unreasonable, just swingy.

Spoiler: xfdagentx42

JK claim day 1?

Spoiler: xfdagentx42

Mafia is way too strong in this one.

Spoiler: Jackal711

Pretty reasonable?

Spoiler: Titus

Not so reasonable. Aside from the logistical concerns (Matchmaker isn't in the deck nor will it be, we don't have Werewolf PRs at the moment), 2:2:8 is probably not balanced even with all the scum role shenanigans.

BBmolla · Post Post #110 (ISO) » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:40 pm

8 player setup:

Odd Couples

1 Mafia Goon
1 Town Vigilante
2 Vanilla Townies
4 - Choose 4 from

[Town Beloved Princess, Mafia Roleblocker]
[Town Supersaint, Mafia Rolecop]
[Vengeful Townie, Mafia Suicide Bomber]
[Town PGO, Mafia Vanillaizer]

Prof Fridays · Post Post #111 (ISO) » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:00 am

In post 109, mith wrote:

Spoiler: Prof Fridays
2 Mafia Goons
1 Cult 1-shot Recuiter (dies with mafia recruit; 1-shot refunded if target dies; Cultist stays Cult if Recruiter dies)
1 Town Tracker
X Vanilla Townies

Spoiler: Aronis
Setup 7 - 6p

x1 Cult Recruiter
x4 Vanilla Town
x1 Town Roleblocker

90% certain cult is
in expansion
torn into little pieces in a fire atm

FTFM.

Hey, now, I feel like my version of cult is reasonable.

ISO · Post Post #112 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:11 am

Spoiler: Archetype

Not really a fan of the cross-alignment Lover thing.

Spoiler: Le Cupcake

Fine, but not different enough from the other 9-player setups we have, I think.

Spoiler: PHANTOM

The problem with variable numbers of millers who don't know they are millers is that it basically turns the Cop into a (partially) Random Cop. If we had Vanilla Cop in the deck, this might be an interesting setup (with the semi-open part randomly determining some named roles like Miller, Lover, or Vengeful Townie)? Except for the Cop-Doc combo of course. Meh.

Spoiler: BBmolla

This would end up a 3:5? Even with the Vig and a potential PGO, Vengeful, or Supersaint, this seems like it couldn't possibly be balanced. Or am I misunderstanding the semi-open part?

ISO · Post Post #113 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:14 am

In post 111, Prof Fridays wrote:Hey, now, I feel like my version of cult is reasonable.

I have long (but not always) been in the "Cult is a bad role because alignement changes are bad/no-fun/etc." camp. But for more constructive criticism: In your setup, the Cult is at best a two-person group, with no kill; they are strictly inferior to the Mafia (who have a kill), and would have a very hard time winning even if the Mafia both went down before a Culty died.

ISO · Post Post #114 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:16 am

Going to go through my posts this evening and come up with a shortlist of setups I like. And then figure out what the heck to do next.

BBmolla · Post Post #115 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:44 pm

Oy vey I mistyped. It should be 2:6, Mafia Goon should be Vanilla Town. I was wondering what the best power role would be and you're right that Vanillla Cop would be best.

If you add Vanilla Cop we can also add Cold Stone

BBmolla · Post Post #116 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:45 pm

Sorry, really tired, Vanilla Cop was for the above setup not mine. It'd work in mine instead of Vig though I think.

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #117 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:49 pm

Can we have a role that always flips in one of the setups?

BBmolla · Post Post #118 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:00 pm

Look forward to "A Role That Flips" mafia in the micro queue

Marquis · Post Post #119 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:01 pm

i kind of want to think of a few 5-7p setups

in my experience if you want to randomly break out the game at a small gathering, there might not be enough people / not enough people would want to play for 8

BBmolla · Post Post #120 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:05 pm

I played We Need a Fifth followed by Vengeful for literally 3 hours the other night.

4 you play WNAF
5 you play Vengeful
6 you play Hotline or Lovers Nightless
7 you have a ton of options

Marquis · Post Post #121 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:15 pm

is there a link for hotline?

Silence in the Castle 6p

1 Mafia Silencer
2 Town Beloved Princesses
3 Vanilla Townies

Beloved Princess deaths -> doublenights do not stack.

meh on the spot

don't think there'll be 2 beloved princess cards though actually

BBmolla · Post Post #122 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:17 pm

Hotline

AKA mini scumhunters 8p

BBmolla · Post Post #123 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:18 pm

less than 1 scum in a setup is pretty terrible imo, just cause the fun part of mafia is connections

But I know not everyone shares my opinion

BBmolla · Post Post #124 (ISO) » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:22 pm

8 player setup:

Odd Couples

1 Town Vigilante
3 Vanilla Townies
4 - Choose 4 from

[Town Beloved Princess, Mafia Roleblocker]
[Town Supersaint, Mafia Rolecop]
[Vengeful Townie, Mafia Suicide Bomber]
[Town PGO, Mafia Vanillaizer]

Could add another PR if needed, but town will already have three named roles so.

Definitely a bit more of a wacky setup.

#	TOWN	MAFIA
1	Vanilla	--
2	Wild	--
3	Doc	1x Strongman
4	Wild	--
5	Cop	Godfather
6	Wild	--
7	Tracker	Roleblocker
8	Wild	--
9	Vanilla	--