[OLD] Open/Semi-Open Design Challenge

[AngryPidgeon]

+Rolecop or not, what do you think AP

Thats a tough call. I think I approve? I'm trying to think if there is anything else I would consider. I'd say make it a 1-shot rolecop, but that is really the same strength considering the size of the setup and it wouldn't be worth adding that restriction in because its so minor balance-wise then (imo).

I've been thinking about this for awhile and kinda ran through some numbers...Not sure? I think I support it.

[AngryPidgeon]

I can always change the jailkeeper to doctor.

That gives us... 52:48?

That sounds better to me off the top of my head. I think optimal Jailer play in this setup is to try and aim for people making the NK anyhow.

[FakeGod]

Lovers' Gambit

~10p

2 Mafia Goons

1 Lover

1 Lover (Innocent Child)

1 Doctor

5 Vanilla Town

After the role cards are dealt, the moderator will ask one of the lovers to flip his/her card over and reveal his/her role.

Fixed.

[Faraday]

You're correct. It is bit townsided.

Expected win rates are 54:46 if my math is right.

Is that a bad thing?

For a face to face deck I think it is, given scumhunting is much, much easier and more accurate. (Well at least once people get used to it?)

[AngryPidgeon]

IIRC there were stats from 2 of4 showing that jailer v role cop in 7:2 actually had a surprisingly high town win %. The main issue is it provides utility and also strong investigative results, ESPECIALLY on a d1 scum lynch

[BBmolla]

Possibly don't make the lover IC? Allow scum to counter claim if they really want to?

Probably doesn't do much in the long run, but adds some options in playing the setup.

[mith]

Split the maths stuff out to avoid derailing: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58302

[FakeGod]

Lovers' Gambit

~10p

2 Mafia Goons

1 Lover

1 Lover (Innocent Child)

1 Jailkeeper

5 Vanilla Town

After the role cards are dealt, the moderator will ask one of the lovers to flip his/her card over and reveal his/her role.

Upon further calculations, it seems that this setup is actually slightly scumsided.

[BBmolla]

Scumsided = Balanced face to face.

I still say make one lover not an innocent child and give the option of claiming or not/allowing mafia to counter claim if they want.

[FakeGod]

Scumsided = Balanced face to face.

I still say make one lover not an innocent child and give the option of claiming or not/allowing mafia to counter claim if they want.

As in allowing mafia team to pretend to be Lovers?

In what situation would that be useful?

[BBmolla]

As in allowing mafia to counter claim lover day 1 if they want. Obviously it's dumb, but hey, it could possibly out the other lover.

I mean, the setup will probably be played with one lover claiming anyway, so why not?

[FakeGod]

hmmm

I think going into n1 with the lovers unknown actually slightly decreases the expected town win rate, because chance that the lovers will be shot goes up drastically if JK is picking at random.

If that's the case, then it's in town's interest for one of the lovers to claim during day 1 anyways, so it might be a moot point. (or worse, punishes casual players)

[xfdagentx42]

Is it ok if I submit some more?

Spoiler: The Madmen(13p)

5 Vanilla
1 Town Jailkeeper
1 Town Doctor
2 Vengeful Mafia
3 Mafia Goons
1 SK

Spoiler: OP DOCTOR(8p)

4 Vanilla
1 Town Doctor
1 Town Jailkeeper
2 Mafia Goons

Spoiler: The Empire (13p)

5 Vanila
1 Town Beloved Princess
1 Town Bodyguard
1 Town Doctor
1 Traitor
2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Godfather
1 SK

[mith]

BBmolla: Scum claiming or countering Lover is a bad idea; losing the Lovers is not a big deal compared to getting that first scum lynch, and there's also the chance the JK will block the kill of the other scum and win the game immediately. Worst case it's 1 Mafia, 1 JK, 5 Townies which leaves town in great shape.

[BBmolla]

hmmm

I think going into n1 with the lovers unknown actually slightly decreases the expected town win rate, because chance that the lovers will be shot goes up drastically if JK is picking at random.

If that's the case, then it's in town's interest for one of the lovers to claim during day 1 anyways, so it might be a moot point. (or worse, punishes casual players)

Could allow the jailkeeper to be played more offensively though, which your setup currently denies.

[FakeGod]

JK should be played offensively if there's one scum remaining, regardless of whether Lovers are alive or not.

[BBmolla]

Sure, but could allow it from the start

[FakeGod]

Offensive JK is basically negated by scum choosing to no kill IMO.

[Jackal711]

This is an idea I've been toying with for a game here on the forums, so I'll post it here as it might be interesting for F2F play as well (and uses a few of the roles stated in OP as needing use)

Not Yet Named (13p)

7 Vanilla Town
1 Town Vig
1 Town Bodyguard
1 Town Cop
1 Mafia Roleblocker
2 Mafia Goon

I use the Bodyguard instead of a full Doctor to get around "follow the cop". The cop can be protected.. once. Roleblocker is there cause town still feels a bit powerful, though he can of course shut down the cop if outed and might be a bit too strong here.

Thoughts?

[Titus]

Hearts go boom

Mafia Matchmaker (picks two players to turn into lovers until the next night but Mafia cannot kill them that night)
Mafia Ninja

Werewolf Vanillaizer
Werewolf 1 shot Bulletproof Suicide Bomber

Town Tracker
Town Deputy Tracker
Town Vigilante
Town Innocent Child
Four VTs.

[Archetype]

Love Triangle (12p)

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Lover

2 Town Lovers
1 Town Doctor
6 Vanilla Townies

At the beginning, none of the Lovers are linked together. Once one dies, the other two fall in love.

[tn5421]

Love Triangle (12p)

2 Mafia Goons
1 Mafia Lover

2 Town Lovers
1 Town Doctor
6 Vanilla Townies

At the beginning, none of the Lovers are linked together. Once one dies, the other two fall in love.

If a town lover flips, it's best to kill both lovers because one is guaranteed scum.

[Titus]

Nope. You leave the Lovers alive. That leaves one townie scum cannot kill. If you lynch the other two scums, it's GG. A townie so powerful scum have to sacrifice one of their own to kill is a dangerous townie. If they both start being anti-town, you can take them out but that's not ideal.

[Le Cupcake]

Setup:

Old Newbie Setup (semi-open setup that works very well in F2F and is extremely fun):

5 VT
2 of [Doctor, Cop, Jailkeeper, VT] (randomly drawn)
2 of Mafia [Goon, Goon, Roleblocker] (randomly drawn)

Notes:

Please consider adding the "Day" modifier (eg. dayblocker/day-roleblocker).

[mith]

Will get to more setup reviews at some point today. If people want to post a few favorites, that would be awesome too.