[SETUP] You're all LIARS!

[inspectorscout]

You're all LIARS!

7x town cops

2x mafia 1-shot godfather framers

• All cops are sane.
  
• Mafia has nightchat and factional kill.
  
• Mafia may each frame 1 townie every night. They will return as mafia to cops that night.
  
• Mafia can decide to show up as town on cop investigations once during the game.
  
• Plurality lynching applies.

I'm not eligible to run this setup yet, but I will do so at some point. If anyone else wants to mod and test it out, I would be grateful.
Before that, would this work?

[Infinity 324]

So mafia are permanent framers with a 1-shot godfather?

Reminds me of paint mafia

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66872

The issue is that since town can organize their actions so they don't overlap, that narrows down the pool pretty quickly. Nightkills and fakeclaimed results make that a little more fuzzy, but it still looks townsided to me.

Lynching the people who have multiple guilties on them and/or multiple people who were assigned to them died might just win it for town, for example.

[inspectorscout]

Not permanent framers, they can frame a different townie every night, but the framed will investigate town again the night after, if they are not framed again.
I don't know if town wins as easily as you think, actually.
Scum can frame 2 townies and lie about their results having 6 guilties out of 9. Hell, they can even do so when using their godfather shots so there are 4 guilties on town. If they reframe certain players and use their nightkill to wifom, they could very likely win imo.
I don't know how to simulate it, but odds are likely better than they seem imo.

I could be completely wrong, of course.

[Infinity 324]

Actually you may be right, since town only has 2 mislynches it may work out for scum. Though another pool of people that could be uncles from is the pool of people that claimed to have a guilty, since it's highly beneficial for scum to claim guilties.

If one scum gets punched though, it would be pretty hard for the other one to win since it's harder to muddle with results.

[Infinity 324]

If one scum get lynched*

[Infinity 324]

Say A and D are scum, town lynch d1.

A is assigned to investigate B, B investigates C, ..., and H investigates A.

C and F are framed. Both scum use godfather. G is nightkilled. Both scum claim guilties.

Guilties are on B, C, E and F.

A, B, D and H claimed the guilties.

H also has some suspicion on him cause of the nightkill.

B gets lynched.

C is confirmed framed or scum.

A

, C,

D

, E, F, H

Next night, D investigates C, C investigates A, etc.

H is nightkilled, E is framed. Now scum can completely manipulate the results; they can even claim an inno if they want for WIFOM

So actually scum is OP lol

Ofc town can scumhunt but with such murky results 7:2 semi-mountainous is gonna be tough

[Titus]

Umm dumb question? Why would scum frame at all?

They are godfathers, that means everyone defaults to copping as town?

[Infinity 324]

The godfather is only 1-shot.

[Infinity 324]

This might work as 6:2 nightless

[inspectorscout]

This might work as 6:2 nightless

That could work better, yes (although its not completely nightless since scum has to submit their frames)


Although isnt 4 mislynches a bit townsided, even if they play it as if it was mountainous?
Ill try to run this or what i posted when im allowed to (my mini normal is in review, so itll take a few months xd)

[Infinity 324]

Yeah you're probably right

In that case I would think about having it as a larger game, maybe also nightless, so that scum can't manipulate the results so easily.

[inspectorscout]

I'm open for suggestions

[Ircher]

What about White Flag?

[inspectorscout]

A 7-2 white flag?
Ehhh risky

[TierShift]

I think the setup is pretty balanced as it was originally posed. Town should just not coordinate night actions, so scum cannot claim fake guilties or take a really big risk in doing so. Scum absolutely needs to keep each other alive to win. If scum is lynched day 1, town can probably force a win.

Town definitely does not need a buff. Perhaps maf needs a buff when one of them gets lynched.

[callforjudgement]

I believe the best town strategy here is pair-targeting (i.e. players are divided into pairs and target each other). After the lynch, there'll be an even number of players alive, so they divide exactly. The advantage of doing things this way is that it overlaps the various methods that scum have to interfere with town information, making them less effective. I'm not yet sure whether you want to try to keep the pairs the same for D2, or vary them (keeping the same feels like it'll be better but that's gut/intuition rather than something I've reasoned out).

If someone investigates as town twice, either they're town, or they were scum who was paired with their buddy at some point. (You can get useful, but not 100% conclusive, clues as to whether the latter has happened via counting the number of guilty results seen.) This is therefore likely to provide some cleared townies at 3:2 lylo (not to mention that town have the chance of lynching scum through dayplay; once one scum dies, the other doesn't have much of a chance due to the reduced availability of frames and the fact that the game lasts longer, diluting the Godfather shot).

[TierShift]

No lynching everyday is probably a breaking strategy

[callforjudgement]

Scum can partially counteract that via framing the same players every night and only killing outside the players they're framing. Not sure if it's good enough as a counterstrategy to invalidate the breaking strategy, but it would help at least.

[TierShift]

The no lynching strategy has just so many possibilities. You need at least 3 nights before any players are cleared, assuming actions are coordinated. To continue by hand is too tedious but I suspect that around day 5 you will end up with a PoE pool of 4 which is not good enough.

No lynching and random actions makes it so that scum cannot fake guilty. This might work as a strat, but scum could counter by using the ractic you described. Just tried playing out a game on paper but it is too complex. We should have to see how it goes in practice. Probably superior to lynching.

[TierShift]

It also works because scum cannot claim inno on whoever because that clears town players in the end. Therefore, scum investigation pattern can be observed and correctly lynched for.

[inspectorscout]

Well
If anyone wants to try a game, feel free
But yes, therandom strategy with no lynch might be the breaking strategy here. After 4 or 5 nights i believe you have some conftown..
Pairing + no lynch and switching partners could as well break the setup,i think.

[Gamma Emerald]

I might play this. Sounds fun.

[inspectorscout]

Lmao i meant someone who can mod it
Thanks though

[TierShift]

After five nights of no lynching scum wins though

[callforjudgement]

I think you only no-lynch twice (and get randomly chosen pairs to cross-investigate). That may well give you confirmed innocents Day 3, and is highly likely to give you many confirmed innocents Day 4 (which is when lylo comes, after two no-lynches).