[SETUP]: two-fold jk9++

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mhsmith0
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:14 pm

Inspired by two-fold c9++, but (as with standard jk9++ vs c9++) with much different role distributions.

I'm thinking 17p instead of 15p as well, and letters

T 1-50
I 51-65 trackers
D 66-75 docs / bps
K 76-85 vig / vengeful
H 86-90 hider / commuter
B 91-95 role blocker
R 96-100 role cop / gunsmith

I'll have the more detailed breakdown in the next couple days. Would love to have a few eyes on it to see if it's reasonably balanced and looks like fun to play.
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:24 pm

Current draft:
Spoiler:
17p, with:

Range Letter
1-50 T
51-65 I
66-75 D
76-85 K
86-90 H
91-95 B
96-100 R

Tier 1
7 T 1-shot BP, Ninja/1-shot strongman, TOWN Doctor
6 T 1-shot BP, Ninja/1-shot strongman
5 T 1-shot BP, Ninja/1-shot strongman

Tier 2
4 T 1-shot BP, Goon, RB / RC
3 T 1-shot BP, Goon, RB / RC

Tier 3
2 T 1-shot BP, RB / RC, Ninja/1-shot strongman
1 T 1-shot BP, RB / RC, Ninja/1-shot strongman
0 T 1-shot BP, RB / RC, Ninja with 1-shot strongman

(mafia chooses RB or RC and/or chooses ninja or strongman)

I Tracker
II Tracker, 1-shot tracker
3I 2x tracker, 1x 1-shot tracker
4I 3x tracker, 1x 1-shot tracker
5I 4x tracker, 1x 1-shot tracker

D Doc
DD Doc, 1-shot BP
3D 2x Doc, 1x 1-shot BP
4D 3x Doc, 1x 1-shot BP

K Vig
KK Vig, Vengeful
3K 2x Vig, 1x vengeful
4K 2x Vig, 2x vengeful

H Hider
HH Hider, 1-shot commuter
3H 2x Hider, 1x 1-shot commuter

B Roleblocker
BB Roleblocker, 1-shot roleblocker
3B 2x roleblocker

R Role Cop
RR Gunsmith
3R Role Cop, Gunsmith

and then the same (with different names) for the wolves, with rebalancing if mafia/wolves have different tiers:

1 vs 2 add traitor
1 vs 3 add traitor, JOAT module (RC, Roleblock, commute)
2 vs 3 add strong will / 1-shot commute module

Other notes:
No townie can get more than two power roles, or multiple roles against the same faction
vengefuls can't be blocked by ANY means
Traitor/defector CAN get a single power role against opposing faction, but is endgamed if/when teammates die
BP are good against all kills except venge
Mafia/ww shots are good against everyone (including other team as well as traitor/defector)
Hider can't get a second power role rand, does NOT die if visiting "other" faction
doc, role cop, gunsmith, role blocker, vig are only good against town or mafia but NOT ww; anti-ww ones will get different names and be only good against town or ww but NOT mafia (so role cop or gunsmith targeting a wolf get back a VT result)
not sure how to handle hider roles targeting other hiders. HHH is unlikely, but one H on both anti-mafia and anti-wolf is reasonably plausible

Thoughts?

^ now out of date
Last edited by mhsmith0 on Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:19 pm

Just did two runs of that format:

Run #1
Spoiler:
T/T/D/D/T/I/D
(3x T, 1x I, 3x D)

I/T/T/T/T/D/T
(5x T, 1x I, 1x D)

Mafia
1-shot BP
Mafia Goon
Roleblocker or Role Cop

Werewolf
1-shot BP
Ninja OR 1-shot strongman
Defector

Town: 11 townies, plus one defector, share the powers:
Doc
1-shot BP
Tracker

Guardian
Stalker

Rest vanilla

So let's say
Doc and Stalker
1-shot BP
Tracker
Guardian
7 vanilla townies
1 pro-wolf defector



Run #2
Spoiler:
I/T/B/I/T/I/T
(3x T, 3x I, 1x B)

T/T/D/K/I/T/D
(3x T, 1x I, 2x D, 1x K)

Mafia
1-shot BP
Mafia Goon
Roleblocker or Role Cop

Werewolf
1-shot BP
Werewolf Goon
Tranquilizer or Role Seer

Town: 11 townies, share the powers:
Roleblocker
Tracker
Tracker
1-shot Tracker

Guardian
1-shot Guardian
Stalker
Attack Dog

Rest Vanilla

So let's say
Roleblocker and Attack Dog
Tracker
Tracker and 1-shot Guardian
1-shot Tracker
Stalker
Six vanilla townies


*notes: anti-werewolf vig is "attack dog", anti-werewolf roleblocker is "tranquilizer". Think the rest are obvious.

I think both runs of that structure seem pretty reasonable to me; a decent amount of town power, but no super OP roles, and plenty of ways that town powers can get in each others way. And on the flip side, there's some protection on both scum factions from NK shots, but there's still a pretty decent amount of potential vulnerability too.

PS Probably need to add a rule that says that traitor/defector can't draw a killing role, that'd be too unbalanced.
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:17 pm

Because I'm me, I've been playing w format a bit. Bumped it up to 18p, and tweaked letter ranges to be:


Range Letter
1-50 T
51-65 I
66-80 D
81-90 H
91-95 K
96-100 R

and tweaked it so it's full strongman instead of 1-shot (so you pick ninja to beat the trackers or strongman to beat the docs/bp's), and adding a rule that traitor/defector can't rand a K role (and of course hiders can't rand any other power roles since they don't do anything else, though 1-shot commuters can). I also did a third run of rand #s for the luz. Now you get:

Run #1
Spoiler:
T/T/D/D/T/I/D
(3x T, 1x I, 3x D)

I/T/T/T/T/D/T
(5x T, 1x I, 1x D)

Mafia
1-shot BP
Mafia Goon
Roleblocker or Role Cop

Werewolf
1-shot BP
Ninja OR strongman
Defector

Town: 12 townies, plus one defector, share the powers:
Doc
1-shot BP
Tracker

Guardian
Stalker

Rest vanilla

So let's say no power overlap and you get:
Doc
1-shot BP
Tracker DEFECTOR
Stalker
Guardian
8 vanilla townies


Run #2
Spoiler:
I/T/K/I/T/I/T
(3x T, 3x I, 1x K)

T/T/D/D/I/T/D
(3x T, 1x I, 3x D)

Mafia
1-shot BP
Mafia Goon
Roleblocker or Role Cop

Werewolf
1-shot BP
Werewolf Goon
Roleblocker or Role Seer

Town: 12 townies, share the powers:
Vigilante
Tracker
Tracker
1-shot Tracker

Guardian
Guardian
1-shot BP
Stalker

Rest Vanilla

So let's say one overlap and you get:
Vigilante and Guardian
Tracker
Tracker
1-shot Tracker
Guardian
1-shot BP
Stalker
Five vanilla townies


Run #3
Spoiler:
T/T/H/T/T/T/T
(6x T, 1x H)

D/H/I/R/D/T/T
(2x T, 1x I, 2x D, 1x H, 1x R)

Mafia
1-shot BP
Ninja OR Strongman
Traitor
JOAT module (role block, role cop, commute) to go to whichever mafia member they choose (probably the 1-shot BP)

Werewolf
1-shot BP
Role Blocker OR Role Seer
Ninja OR Strongman

Town: 12 townies, plus one traitor, share the powers:
Witness Protection

Stalker
Guardian
1-shot BP
Zoophobe
Role Seer

Rest vanilla

So let's say no power overlap and you get:
Witness Protection
Stalker TRAITOR
Guardian
1-shot BP
Zoophobe
Role Seer
7 vanilla townies


Or to summarize:

Rand 1:
Mafia: 1-shot BP; Goon; Roleblocker OR Role Cop
Werewolf: 1-shot BP; Ninja OR Strongman; Defector (with tracker rand let's say)
Town: Doc, 1-shot BP, Stalker, Guardian, 8 VT's

Rand 2:
Mafia: 1-shot BP; Goon; Roleblocker OR Role Cop
Werewolf: 1-shot BP; Goon; Roleblocker OR Role Seer
Town: Vigilante AND Guardian, Tracker, Tracker, 1-shot Tracker, Guardian, 1-shot BP, Stalker, 5 VT's

Rand 3:
Mafia: 1-shot BP; Ninja OR Strongman; Traitor (with stalker let's say)
Werewolf: 1-shot BP; Roleblocker OR Role Seer; Ninja OR Strongman
Town: Witness Protection (anti mafia hider), Guardian, 1-shot BP, Zoophobe (anti WW hider), Role Seer, 7 VT's
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:49 pm

Created a setup page for this format. Needs some cleaning up of presentation but I'd really love to get feedback on the setup itself.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _JK9%2B%2B
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:15 pm

For the curious, I've tweaked a few things. Most notably, since it seems the hider mechanics are a bit over-complex, I've subbed out "H" and subbed in "M" (IC, Mason pair, and anti-werewolf equivalent). I've also clarified role cop / role seer so that they can pick up the non-incriminating mafia/werewolf BP/Elder powers (since they also double as town powers and can be used as a non-lying claim for a scum/wolf under pressure). So a role seer can pick up werewolf powers like JOAT, roleblocker, stealth wolf etc but can only see vanilla or 1-shot elder from mafia, and role cop is the inverse.

I also cleaned up formatting a bit and tweaked some language ("Magicsmith" sounds cooler than "Fangsmith", and then it just suggests that vigs/vigilantes have magic guns or something since they get picked up by both gunsmith and magicsmith).
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BBmolla
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:38 am

I'm acknowledging that this exists and have no idea about the balance on these types of setups

mhsmith0
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:44 am

Lol no worries. I'm playing w the details a bit, might also rename it since there no longer a jk lol
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Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Wed May 10, 2017 3:08 am

What is the minimum amount of VTs you can have in this setup? I want to run this on a site with an anti-VT culture.
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Hi, it’s Box! (Himiko is taking a vacation at the witch world rn, maybe you’ll see her again...?)
i would unironically put mafia loyal vigs in games for the record - Acidphoenix

mhsmith0
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Wed May 10, 2017 11:22 pm

Technically you can get zero. Unlikely tho. But 12 townies, and every non-T letters is a PR. Just a question of how many T's come up for mafia and wolf rand, and how many townies get double PRs.

Tho honestly I've not been putting a lot of effort into the setup, I've kinda passed on being super into multiball stuff. I might do a single ball 17p vig-centric rolling setup in the near future, have worked on something like that on and off.
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Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Wed May 10, 2017 11:26 pm

I discovered that the PRs in each letter group increase at a constant rate so getting 2 or less Ts will make the game possible role madness.
Get to know an Emerald! Stop by sometime, would you kindly? ♪
Hi, it’s Box! (Himiko is taking a vacation at the witch world rn, maybe you’ll see her again...?)
i would unironically put mafia loyal vigs in games for the record - Acidphoenix

mhsmith0
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Wed May 10, 2017 11:32 pm

yeah. not sure how balanced it really is on either end, i think it's prob ok but balancing multiball is always weird anyway
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Assemblerotws
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:52 pm

What happens if more than 12 Ks, Ms, and/or Rs are rolled? In that scenario, there would be 3 scum on each team and 12 townies, but none of the townies would be allowed to have more than one module and there would be more than 12 modules.
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mhsmith0
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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:16 pm

Nit sure? It’s been like a year since I made this don’t really remember any more lol
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Assemblerotws
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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:17 pm

Easiest solutions I can think of would be to either combine some of the Vigilantes, make three Ks result in a Vengeful Vigilante and a Vengeful instead of two Vigilantes and a Vengeful, or do what was done with M and R and reroll if you get more than two of any one of those letters.
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Assemblerotws
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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:22 pm

My recommendation to improve this setup for when I run it in the future:
A max of two Ks per alignment source are allowed.
If more than 10 Ks, Ms, and/or Rs are rolled, scum may not choose to gain daytalk.
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