Normally, I would just run my computer simulation.
However, I am lazy. New Year Laziness. Please tell me if this setup doesn't (or surprisingly!) work
EV speaking, that's 50%. One of the weakness of nightless is that you cannot lynch the obvtown. This is compensated by Vengenful.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:05 pm
by Gamma Emerald
ew
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:13 pm
by Realeo
Y?
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:04 pm
by Gamma Emerald
The best route for scum is to push someone who can chain-ML a lot of people.
Let's say we have players A through L. A, B, C are scum. D and E are in a massive T v T. F has been noting this. D and G call him scum for this. F calls G scum for discrediting him. By lynching E, you cause it to go E-D-F-G, unless one breaks the chain.
I feel there's a better way to express how scumsided this seems, but I can't find words to do so.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:06 pm
by Realeo
I understand the argument.. I may as well need to make computer simulation.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:13 pm
by Gamma Emerald
Computer sims won't help. My issue is with people being blithering idiots.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:18 pm
by Realeo
In post 5, Gamma Emerald wrote:Computer sims won't help. My issue is with people being blithering idiots.
Computer tells us the normal people.
So the actual rate is higher because people being blithering idiots.
GE wrote:The best route for scum is to push someone who can chain-ML a lot of people.
Let's say we have players A through L. A, B, C are scum. D and E are in a massive T v T. F has been noting this. D and G call him scum for this. F calls G scum for discrediting him. By lynching E, you cause it to go E-D-F-G, unless one breaks the chain.
It sounds as though these townies' reads are quite bad to the point where they probably should be losing this game.
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:37 pm
by Realeo
In post 0, Realeo wrote:Normally, I would just run my computer simulation.
However, I am lazy. New Year Laziness. Please tell me if this setup doesn't (or surprisingly!) work
EV speaking, that's 50%. One of the weakness of nightless is that you cannot lynch the obvtown. This is compensated by punishing bad play of town. Town can rack up early town loss or lynch a obvtown in the VT chain reaction.
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:56 pm
by mhsmith0
It's slightly modified popcorn mafia essentially, which appears to be roughly balanced at 7 town 4 scum.
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:20 am
by Realeo
How does it balances at 7 town 4 scums, if I may ask? 7 town and 4 scums is essentially 6 towns and 4 scums and 1 game solver which is around 20% EV?
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:43 am
by callforjudgement
Games where scum have little or no control over who dies seem in practice to be balanced at stupidly low EVs, for whatever reason.
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:49 am
by Realeo
In post 11, callforjudgement wrote:Games where scum have little or no control over who dies seem in practice to be balanced at stupidly low EVs, for whatever reason.
Isn't the reason is because of scum cannot kill obv town?
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:51 am
by callforjudgement
I think it may also be because they can't kill people who are suspecting them, or people who they're worried will suspect them in the future.
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:53 am
by Realeo
Do you think it would be solved better with my idea of Chain Reaction?
Maybe I have to turn one into Vengenful.
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:13 am
by mhsmith0
In general, towns do slightly better than expected values based on random lynches/investigations/night actions. In games where scum cannot use factional kill abilities to snuff out town that are problems (good reads, consensus town, etc) the difference generally seems to go up substantially.
FWIW, the FakeGod large dance theme games have been a very notable exception to this rule. Based on playing in one and skimming through another, I would say that this is a combination of:
1) towns foolishly using their suicide abilities in many situations where it is wildly sub-optimal to do so
2) towns being exceptionally bad at using private topic neighborhoods to read people (an aspect of play that has also popped up repeatedly in mini normal results as well, as scum neighbors/neighborizers have worked incredibly well, while all town hoods do not seem to be especially good at recognizing each other)
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:39 pm
by Realeo
My mind is that by locking the thread, the scum can strategically zone out bad player to make another bad lynch due to the chain reaction.
And yeah, that large dance somehow always come to the final 2 pairs. Somehow.
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:42 pm
by mhsmith0
Two scum survived the last one actually.
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:45 pm
by Realeo
I modify a Goon into Vengeful.
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:47 pm
by Realeo
What should the game mod do if A is lynched and site flaked before lynching.