[SETUP] Watchmen Wanted

[Creature]

Town Watcher
7-9 Town Backups

3 Mafia Goons

If

Town Watcher

dies, one

Town Backup

chosen randomly will replace it.

If town and scum keeps nolynching/nokilling, the game will end in a scum win.

I wonder if it should be 8v3 or 10v3 and if there should have a mafia roleblocker (with two mafia backups).

[Infinity 324]

Actually, this is kind of interesting. Since scum know town always has a watcher, they have to make their kill choices carefully. However it is kind of a guessing game ultimately and a lot of the game is decided by whether the watcher happens to choose the right target.

Given the fact that the watcher claim is a conftown that just creates a different conftown when the scum kills it, plus the fact that the watcher can claim results with impunity, makes me think the setup should be 8:3.

Interestingly enough, scum could just refuse to kill and make the game nightless (especially if it's 8:3). Probably wouldn't help them but it's an interesting consideration.

[Infinity 324]

Basically, I think it's correct for scum to just leave alive the watcher, which means town basically gets a BP IC watcher.

Roleblocker would be interesting though. In that case, town would probably have to hypoclaim (i.e. everyone gives results as if they were a watcher). Then the watcher probably would not claim until lylo, to avoid being roleblocked. My gut says it's about as powerful for scum as one less mislynch because town doesn't get guilties until later on and there's a chance that the watcher actually does get blocked.

Funnily, it's probably sometimes correct in the roleblocker case to lynch the watcher once it's outed, because it gives town another confirm and scum don't know who to roleblock.

Interesting setup.

[Infinity 324]

Hmm, didn't think about scum counterclaiming watcher. That means watcher claims the day before lylo with a roleblocker probably. That's a significant advantage to scum. With no roleblocker, scum can't really counterclaim anyway.

[Randomnamechange]

why not just kill the watcher each night? there is only one so you basically get a guaranteed unwatched night kill while reducing town numbers

[Infinity 324]

True, but then that just gives town another conftown. Might be a reason for watcher not to claim d2 without a roleblocker, if it has a guilty I'd still claim though.

[Randomnamechange]

True, but then that just gives town another conftown. Might be a reason for watcher not to claim d2 without a roleblocker, if it has a guilty I'd still claim though.

yeah but the options are:
dont kill - result = no net benefit/deficit for scum
kill the watcher = -1 townie and same amount of conf townies so net benefit
kill someone else = -1 townie and risk getting watched.
there is no downside to killing the watcher and no reason to take any other option unless you think you can avoid the watcher.

[Infinity 324]

Well the scum get their choice of who to kill if they don't keep killing the watcher, but I agree that the risk of getting watched outweighs that.

[Randomnamechange]

Well the scum get their choice of who to kill if they don't keep killing the watcher, but I agree that the risk of getting watched outweighs that.

you just watcher kill until mylo/lylo, towniest scum claims watcher and go for the 50/50 in the worst case scenario. you may not even need that.

[Infinity 324]

Thing is the watcher can just not claim until day before lylo then.

[Randomnamechange]

Thing is the watcher can just not claim until day before lylo then.

this is the correct play. it essentially turns the game into nightless.

[Randomnamechange]

unless scum go for the risky kills. I'm trying to think of a way to improve the idea.

[Infinity 324]

I don't think scum giving the town a total of 2+ extra mislynches is better than just hoping to outguess them at night

[Randomnamechange]

I don't think scum giving the town a total of 2+ extra mislynches is better than just hoping to outguess them at night

ok fair enough. i think that this would probably be an interesting set up played like this. the question is for the scum: do they try to outguess the watcher or try and find them?
id probably lean towards making it 9v3 as this setup does have some town advantage due to the strength of its investigations.

[Infinity 324]

9v3 is even worse for town than 8v3. Maybe 10v3 with roleblocker since roleblocker doesn't actually do that much if town doesn't claim

[callforjudgement]

Killing the watcher is good for scum as that kill can't possibly be watched. This implies that the Watcher shouldn't claim without a guilty (or if they're in danger of being lynched). Apart from that, I think scum should just go for kills, especially early. You know there's a Watcher, so you can play around them; perhaps you're going to get watched making the kill, but especially on, the odds are fairly unlikely.

I'm willing to think this is fairly balanced as is. 9:3 would be believable numbers here because it dissuades scum from no-killing. A Roleblocker would likely be a bad idea, though (its only advantage to scum is in cases where they can make the setup more degenerate, e.g. by blocking the same player every night and hoping they're the Watcher).

[Creature]

Town Watcher
8 Town Backups

3 Mafia Goons

If

Town Watcher

dies, one

Town Backup

chosen randomly will replace it.

If town and scum keeps nolynching/nokilling, the game will end in a scum win.

Is this good?

[callforjudgement]

I think 9:3 would be more balanced. At 8:3, the scum get a huge advantage from taking a night off. 9:3 puts them in a situation where they're basically forced to kill.

Alternatively, put it at 8:3 but make the scum kill compulsive.

That said, I'm not quite sure that there are enough townies here; it may be that 10:3 is better.

[Infinity 324]

That one is 9:3

[Creature]

Would 11:3 be too townsided?

[Randomnamechange]

8:3 is probs unfair on town for numbers, there is a pretty decent chance they get shut out early.
10:3 would be alright if scum play well but might be a bit harsh on them due to the number of MLs town gets

[Randomnamechange]

Would 11:3 be too townsided?

definitely. 10-3 is slightly townsided

[callforjudgement]

That one is 9:3

Oh, duh. I forgot the Watcher was an actual role, given that it's in essence a symmetrical setup, and just counted the VTs.

[LlamaFluff]

I like this concept, but as noted the roleblocker doesn't work if only for the reason of if scum was able to ID the Watcher they just keep blocking them and its essentially a mountainous with extra scum + IC.

If you want to make a wiki for a 9:3 setup I will keep playing around with this a bit and probably send it to a trial soon enough.

[Creature]

Sorta wanted a better name for the setup.