Mol Mafia

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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Mol Mafia

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 5:13 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Based on "Wie is de Mol"
10 Vanilla Townies

3 Mafia Goons

Lynching occurs as normal. Each night phase all town players must submit a read list to the mod. The player with the least accurate reads dies that night. If a player fails to submit a list by deadline their list will be randomized and their failure will be announced. Failing to submit twice in a row results in instant death (not a modkill).

Thoughts?
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Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 12:01 pm

Post by Toto »

What does least accurate means? What is a readlist?
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Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 12:59 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Least accurate means least close to the actual setup. Read lists are a collection of the living players and that players guess of their alignment
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Post Post #3 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 2:01 pm

Post by Toto »

I guess town can agree on what read lists they will send and get a lot of info from who dies if they set the read lists smartly, but not sure if this balances it.

The amount of info they can get depends on how restricted the format of the read lists are and how you score them (in terms of accuracy).

For example, if you sort the players from 1 to N

Player 1 says Player 2 is scum
P2 says P3 is scum
...
PN says P1 is scum

Whoever dies, means his candidate was town.

I think this strategy is probably still scum-sided because you only get 1 IC on day 2 and each subsequent day and mathematically it's still bad for town. I can do the math later.

So town would need a better strategy that gleans more info than that in order to balance it out a bit more.
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Post Post #4 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 2:04 pm

Post by Toto »

actually given there are no night kills the above strategy probably breaks the game since you keep accumulating ICs
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Post Post #5 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 2:16 pm

Post by Toto »

actually you can just change the read to player X is town, and whoever dies means his candidate is scum.

So, you need to restrict the format of the readlists somehow, I think full readlist (give alignment for every player) helps but not sure if it's not breakable.
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Post Post #6 (ISO) » Tue May 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Yeah
I might force percentage sureness to ensure a clear death
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Post Post #7 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 12:28 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

TBH I wanna see Realeo comment on this since he brought the idea to my mind
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Post Post #8 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 1:15 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

I think this was the first setup I posted on this forum:
Mole Mafia


16 Vanilla Townies
2 Moles

Mechanics


Every night and pre-game, the moles answer a list of questions (some of them are kind of personal), such as "How tall are you?" The townies have to answer these questions, rephrased to "How tall is the mole?", the night after. The last question is always "Who is the mole?"

Every townie gets assigned a penalty, based on how far their guesses are from the answers of the moles. If both moles are alive, the penalty is calculated for both of them. The lowest one counts, so correctly answering one half of the questions for one mole and the other half for the other mole results in a higher penalty than giving a correct answer to 60% of the questions for one mole and 0% for another.

The townie with the highest final penalty dies. This death is indistinguishable from the mole's nightkill. Even the dead people don't know how they've been killed until after the game. But here's the kicker: unlike the nightkilled townie, the worst guesser immediately loses. The moles can double kill once. The townie with the highest penalty doesn't die that night, so the kill pattern is the same as every other night to the townies. This should make it harder for the townies to draw information from the nightkills.

If the moles win, all townies lose equally. If town wins, all townies win except for the ones that died as a result of having the highest penalty.
IIRC I was told this wasn't Mafia, but site meta has probably shifted on that.
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Post Post #9 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 1:19 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

This one is more "mafia with a mechanic based on the Mol game" than "direct application of the Mol game to mafia"
And the mechanic functions as a read reinforcer: people will be enticed to discount the "nightkilled's" reads since they will be obviously off.
That's an interesting bug/feature: mafia can't eliminate players with good reads.
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Post Post #10 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 3:53 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 0, Gamma Emerald wrote:their failure will be announced
this would confirm the player as town
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Post Post #11 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 4:00 am

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

In post 9, Gamma Emerald wrote:That's an interesting bug/feature: mafia can't eliminate players with good reads.
In practice, people will just break the game by having all players submit the same list with different offsets

so you have to make people who submit shitty lists lose and/or obfuscate the results
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Post Post #12 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 5:47 am

Post by Bins »

In post 8, Bicephalous Bob wrote:I think this was the first setup I posted on this forum:
Mole Mafia


16 Vanilla Townies
2 Moles

Mechanics


Every night and pre-game, the moles answer a list of questions (some of them are kind of personal), such as "How tall are you?" The townies have to answer these questions, rephrased to "How tall is the mole?", the night after. The last question is always "Who is the mole?"

Every townie gets assigned a penalty, based on how far their guesses are from the answers of the moles. If both moles are alive, the penalty is calculated for both of them. The lowest one counts, so correctly answering one half of the questions for one mole and the other half for the other mole results in a higher penalty than giving a correct answer to 60% of the questions for one mole and 0% for another.

The townie with the highest final penalty dies. This death is indistinguishable from the mole's nightkill. Even the dead people don't know how they've been killed until after the game. But here's the kicker: unlike the nightkilled townie, the worst guesser immediately loses. The moles can double kill once. The townie with the highest penalty doesn't die that night, so the kill pattern is the same as every other night to the townies. This should make it harder for the townies to draw information from the nightkills.

If the moles win, all townies lose equally. If town wins, all townies win except for the ones that died as a result of having the highest penalty.
IIRC I was told this wasn't Mafia, but site meta has probably shifted on that.
This looks really cool and yeah, would probably be allowed now. Seems really fun.
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Post Post #13 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 5:57 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Feedback on the setup in the OP?
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Post Post #14 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 5:59 am

Post by Bins »

I think it might be breakable, which is why I like the idea of personality based questions, not just a readslist.
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Post Post #15 (ISO) » Sun May 28, 2017 6:05 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

but that gives people who, say, have seen the players gtkas or something an advantage
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Post Post #16 (ISO) » Mon May 29, 2017 6:39 am

Post by Bins »

That's true, I would assume you could fix that by making the questions a lot more obscure.
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Post Post #17 (ISO) » Mon May 29, 2017 6:41 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

How about this
If there is a tie for the bottom all on the bottom die
That will probably discourage trying to do slightly modified lists since all the people who are adjusted the wrong way die
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Post Post #18 (ISO) » Mon May 29, 2017 12:33 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Does not prevent circular shifting
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Post Post #19 (ISO) » Mon May 29, 2017 5:39 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Which is?
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