I made a setup for a real-life Mafia game. Any tips?

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
User avatar
WildJuaN
WildJuaN
Ninja
User avatar
User avatar
WildJuaN
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 1
Joined: June 6, 2017
Location: noitacoL

I made a setup for a real-life Mafia game. Any tips?

Post Post #0 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:49 pm

Post by WildJuaN »

Let me preface by saying
I haven't been able to use it yet
(because I have no friends) but I joined this forum specifically to ask.

My questions:
Is it balanced?

Are any roles over/underpowered?

Any there any possible unusual situations that I should be aware of/prepare for?


Amount of Players:
10


Deputy, Oracle, Escort,
Town-Protective (
Doctor
or
Security Guard
), 2x Random Town (
Mayor, Priest, Governor,
or
Vigilante
)

Godfather, Mafioso,
Mafia-Support (
Blackmailer
or
Drug Dealer
)

Random Neutral
(
Serial Killer
,
Arsonist
,
Amnesiac
, or
Spirit Master
)

All possible Town roles:
Deputy:
Able to investigate one person every night, and get two possible roles from them.
(e.g. "Your target like to take control. They may be either a
Mayor
or a
Godfather.
)

Oracle:
Able to speak with the dead at night.

Escort:
Able to roleblock one person at night.
— If you roleblock the
Serial Killer
, you will die.

Doctor:
Able to heal one person at night.
— If the
Serial Killer
attacks your patient, you will die instead of your patient.

Security Guard:
Able to protect one person at night.
— If the
Mafia
attacks your rescuee, both you and the attacker will die.
— If the
Serial Killer
attacks your rescuee, only the
Serial Killer
will die.

Vigilante:
Gets two bullets at the start of the game to shoot people throughout the game.
— If you shoot a
Town
member, you will commit suicide over the guilt the next night.

Mayor:
Gets two votes towards lynching a player.

Governor:
Can unanimously pardon one person from being hung. One time only.

Priest:
Can revive a dead person. One time only.

All possible Mafia roles:
Godfather:
Sends the
Mafioso
to do his bidding.
— If the
Mafioso
is roleblocked, then you will kill someone yourself.

Mafioso:
Carry out attacks for the
Godfather.


Blackmailer:
Can choose one person to silence every night. That person cannot speak the next day.

Drug Dealer:
Mafia-aligned
Escort.


All possible Neutral roles:

Serial Killer:
Choose one person to kill every night.
— If you attack a
Doctor's
target, the
Doctor
will die instead.
— If you attack a
Security Guard's
target, you will die.
— Must win alone.

Arsonist:
Choose one person to douse in gasoline every night.
— At any night of your choosing, you may ignite all doused targets.
— Must win alone.

Amnesiac:
On a night of your choosing, you may take over the role of a dead person.
— You must fulfill the win condition set by the role you choose.

Spirit Master:
Wins if lynched publicly.
— If you're killed by the
Mafia,
then you win if the
Town
wins.
— If you're killed by the
Vigilante,
Serial Killer,
or
Arsonist,
then you win if the
Mafia
wins.

This took me about 30 minutes to type, R.I.P.
User avatar
gigabyteTroubadour
gigabyteTroubadour
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
gigabyteTroubadour
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7577
Joined: May 30, 2016
Location: New Jersey, the Armpit of the United States

Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:45 pm

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

looks really complicated for a real life game? i'm not sure how you're setting it up but with how the deputy gets results it seems kind of... verbose? like when i play/mod games irl i usually just have investigatives get a thumbs up, a thumbs down, or a shrug if they're roleblocked. for trackers and watchers i just point to whoever the result is

it's definitely not a very MS-style setup, our setups that we play here tend to focus on day play and as a result have a lot of VTs. looks really town of salemy and i have zero clue how to actually balance a setup like that.

priest seems pretty strong, the mayor is basically a double voting IC (and the godfather doesn't seem to have a fakeclaim to have vs the deputy if the deputy is confirmed?)

blackmailer ultimately does the same thing as drug dealer but it's less fun for the person silenced unless the days are really fast. but then again they can just use hand motions so??? i would probably nix this role

spirit master is??????????????????????? dunno how to feel about this one....

does the amnesiac get to choose who they back up?
i no longer strictly go by they/them and honestly prefer she/her but they/them's fine if you're used to it i guess

☭ I'm coming for that toothbrush ☭
User avatar
WildJuaN
WildJuaN
Ninja
User avatar
User avatar
WildJuaN
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 1
Joined: June 6, 2017
Location: noitacoL

Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:04 pm

Post by WildJuaN »

> kind of... verbose?
I have cards set up for Deputy results. No talking needed.

> very Town of Salem-y
Correct!

> priest seems pretty atrong
Explain? Just looking for constructive criticism, not trying to sound douche-y. If Mafia remembers the role of the one revived, they can kill them off easily. Unless Doctor/Guard is present.

>godfather doesn't have a fakeclaim
Mayor. It's random town, and there's two random towns in the setup. It's a good fakeclaim unless the two RTs can CC.

> blackmailer ultimately does the same thing as drug dealer
Blackmailer silences during the day, Drug Dealer suppresses the ability at night. Also, yes, they can use hand signals, but they cannot talk.

>Does the amnesiac choose who to back up?
Yes. They can choose who they want to play as, whenever they want to. As long as they're alive, they can remember any dead role.

wdit: help I closed the live chat on mobile and I can't reopen it what do
User avatar
gigabyteTroubadour
gigabyteTroubadour
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
gigabyteTroubadour
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7577
Joined: May 30, 2016
Location: New Jersey, the Armpit of the United States

Post Post #3 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:24 pm

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

not sure how cards will work out but if u got it u got it

it ups town's majority and gives them a conftown. timed right that can give town an extra mislynch which is huge and there's already a fuckton of power

if votecounts are public the mayor's going to be outted d1 since everyone will see that they have two votes (and if the fact theyre a doublevoter isnt public and it just shows as one vote, they should still out that D1 so no one accidentally hammers. if scum are investigated there should probably be some thought put into whether or not the claim is true that goes beyond mechanically testing votes if you're not giving straight forward guilties). i'm not sure what role though works as a fakeclaim flavor and mechanically but something provable makes CCs easy and can confscum which defeats the purpose of a safeclaim (like yes it should be CC'd but there should be some way to figure it out that isn't "oh does X's vote count twice? can Y stop their lynch?"). deputy is really the only safe CC and even then that sucks because no one will buy it

blackmailer and drug dealer both ultimately stop PRs from giving results with optimal usage - the blackmailer just ineffectively does that by giving the target a kind of restriction where they can still give results but in a kind of annoying way. it could be funny depending on the audience though i guess? from a pure gameplay perspective though they do really similar things but the drug dealer's more tolerable for the players as a whole

personally i dont really like either of the roles that can "choose" their side since it's an open setup which means that the right play is to just lynch the amnesiac. the spirit master doesnt really have a wincon - should they be trying to get lynched or what. you could leash an amnesiac i guess and have them be a deputy as soon as it dies but what stops them from lying about that and giving scum an extra member?
i no longer strictly go by they/them and honestly prefer she/her but they/them's fine if you're used to it i guess

☭ I'm coming for that toothbrush ☭
User avatar
WildJuaN
WildJuaN
Ninja
User avatar
User avatar
WildJuaN
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 1
Joined: June 6, 2017
Location: noitacoL

Post Post #4 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:31 pm

Post by WildJuaN »

> the whole first paragraph
please explain in noob terms

Votecounts are not public, they are only counted when everyone has voted or someone was voted to be lunched.
If it helps, the voted person CAN defend themselves.

Amnesiac is neutral, not town - if they choose a Mafia member, they have to win as Mafia.

Spirit Master's wincon is to get lynched (edit:
neutral
village idiot) but has extra leeway if they are killed at night.

Anything else I can explain/answer for you or..?
User avatar
gigabyteTroubadour
gigabyteTroubadour
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
gigabyteTroubadour
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7577
Joined: May 30, 2016
Location: New Jersey, the Armpit of the United States

Post Post #5 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:40 pm

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

uh

so there's 6 town, 3 scum, 1 indie (let's say amnesiac)

say town correctly lynches scum, so it's 6:2:1. scum nightkill a townie, no doc protect, no vig, amnesiac doesn't back up scum. now it's 5:2:1, which means that town has 1 mislynch before they're put in a MYLO/LYLO situation. town mislynches, but then a priest revives the mislynch, and scum get a nightkill in. regardless of who dies this puts town at 4:2:1 which still means they have a mislynch (unless the neutral sides with scum)

i understand amnesiac is neutral but usually it's optimal to side with scum. might be different in face to face but i would lmao

i guess my not liking the spirit master just comes from general distaste of indies.

vote counts not being a public thing i guess makes the mayor less ridiculous

idk since the setup is really town of salemy i feel like it would make more sense to have people who play ToS a lot balance it? do they have something like that there :P ?

it's just weird to see a crazy role madness game
i no longer strictly go by they/them and honestly prefer she/her but they/them's fine if you're used to it i guess

☭ I'm coming for that toothbrush ☭
User avatar
WildJuaN
WildJuaN
Ninja
User avatar
User avatar
WildJuaN
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 1
Joined: June 6, 2017
Location: noitacoL

Post Post #6 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:45 pm

Post by WildJuaN »

I play Town of Salem so I guess that's why there's a lot of PRs.

LYLO? I know MYLO is mislynch and lose.

To be fair randomly lynching favors evil roles - in my opinion town wouldn't lynch unless they had a confirmed or dumb.

Other than thanks for the feedback! How is it 1-10? With rice?
User avatar
gigabyteTroubadour
gigabyteTroubadour
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
gigabyteTroubadour
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 7577
Joined: May 30, 2016
Location: New Jersey, the Armpit of the United States

Post Post #7 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:47 pm

Post by gigabyteTroubadour »

oh, right, tos play style is to nl most of the days, forgot about that

LYLO is Lynch and Lose, which is like MYLO but you lose if you nl

don't really know how it would be on a scale of 1-10. let me know how it runs :P - with face to face stuff i think how much fun people have with it matters more than whether or not it's a good setup until people get super competitive/intense/good at the game
i no longer strictly go by they/them and honestly prefer she/her but they/them's fine if you're used to it i guess

☭ I'm coming for that toothbrush ☭
User avatar
WildJuaN
WildJuaN
Ninja
User avatar
User avatar
WildJuaN
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 1
Joined: June 6, 2017
Location: noitacoL

Post Post #8 (ISO) » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:52 pm

Post by WildJuaN »

I will take my cards with me to Knoxville on Friday to see if I have enough people to play (at all).
I'll definitely letcha know how it goes. Thanks!

In the meantime, here's all of the cards I made myself! https://imgur.com/a/KnQAi
User avatar
Randomnamechange
Randomnamechange
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
Randomnamechange
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 6075
Joined: February 8, 2014

Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:43 am

Post by Randomnamechange »

thats rly well put together. setup seems swingy but good fun and the small amount of players should mean that this doesn't cause too many issues if you play a couple of rounds. I would probs give it a go and see how it pans out.
vonflare (21:40)
you suck randomidget
User avatar
WildJuaN
WildJuaN
Ninja
User avatar
User avatar
WildJuaN
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 1
Joined: June 6, 2017
Location: noitacoL

Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:50 am

Post by WildJuaN »

Thanks Random! Hopefully during my vacation I'll be able to rally enough people to play this.
User avatar
TesXX
TesXX
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
TesXX
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1504
Joined: December 16, 2016

Post Post #11 (ISO) » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:10 pm

Post by TesXX »

I'm not sure how balanced it is because of the large number of roles + the fact that none of them are VTs (which makes sense since it's based off ToS which has no Vanilla Towns).
This question may have been asked but all the posts are really big and I am skimming them but have you hosted this setup on Town of Salem?
User avatar
WildJuaN
WildJuaN
Ninja
User avatar
User avatar
WildJuaN
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 1
Joined: June 6, 2017
Location: noitacoL

Post Post #12 (ISO) » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:03 pm

Post by WildJuaN »

In post 11, TesXX wrote:I'm not sure how balanced it is because of the large number of roles + the fact that none of them are VTs (which makes sense since it's based off ToS which has no Vanilla Towns).
This question may have been asked but all the posts are really big and I am skimming them but have you hosted this setup on Town of Salem?
Since some of the roles (like the Spirit Master) are not on Town of Salem, plus some abilities/deaths are changed (ex. Security Guard is not killed by Serial Killer attacking their target, whereas in ToS they are), I don't think a Town of Salem setup would accurately depict balance in this roleset.

Also I'd love to, but I don't have anyone to do custom games with.
User avatar
MuttonChopMagic
MuttonChopMagic
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
MuttonChopMagic
Goon
Goon
Posts: 650
Joined: May 28, 2017

Post Post #13 (ISO) » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:15 am

Post by MuttonChopMagic »

I've played in person more than most people so in somewhat qualified to five advice

this is just way too many roles. we don't play role madness much on ms, yea, but it's not even that because I used to play tos too and get the appeal. the problem is, in person there's no simultaneous night. you put every player to sleep, tap the party with the highest priority first, get an action, give a result if needed, send them back to sleep. this is time consuming if every single player has a role. also, it becomes very difficult to follow and extremely swingy. you want everyone shouting and deliberating over the scum, not over whether he's godfather or she's vigilante.

as a completely separate note; nobody will want to spend this much time learning the game. sad, but true. there's way too many elements and too many eccentricities to learn. you will probably make a hosting mistake frequently because you yourself even have too much to focus on. players will get confused and apathetic. lots of tos players come with the mindset "I need a role to have fun" but you really dont. and, regardless, this is too much to teach people for a game that's already hard to find players for.
User avatar
WildJuaN
WildJuaN
Ninja
User avatar
User avatar
WildJuaN
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 1
Joined: June 6, 2017
Location: noitacoL

Post Post #14 (ISO) » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:30 am

Post by WildJuaN »

I mean, I'm not using a deck of cards - I actually have cards with every role and their win condition, abilities, etc. on it. I hope what you said is not what eventually happens, but I'm still willing to try it. Thanks for the feedback though! If it goes to hell I'll just make it to where there's more VT/VM roles.
User avatar
BBmolla
BBmolla
Open Book
User avatar
User avatar
BBmolla
Open Book
Open Book
Posts: 24301
Joined: May 29, 2011

Post Post #15 (ISO) » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:50 pm

Post by BBmolla »

As someone with a whole lot of f2f experience, this is just too complex to end up fun.

Once someone makes a modding app then sure.
Come see me in the Great American Melodrama in Oceano
User avatar
Boonskiies
Boonskiies
That's Not All, Folks!
User avatar
User avatar
Boonskiies
That's Not All, Folks!
That's Not All, Folks!
Posts: 17939
Joined: June 11, 2014
Location: SF

Post Post #16 (ISO) » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:17 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

I feel like this game becomes the equivalent of watching 8 AI's duking it out in smash bros.

This would essentially turn into compromise lynches, everyone claiming actions every day, and unfortunate/coincidental night results. Night phases would take forever, and night kill analysis becomes basically impossible to analyze.

Also, the mafia team has the potential to be completely wiped out N1, and it just becomes a town vs solo 3rd party game after that, which takes out the informed minority aspect. That's just me being overly nitpicky there, though.

Also, if you get the blackmailer, you basically start confirming town (3rd party wifom is there, but they can die N1 easily.)

Nonetheless, it could be fun for a few rounds of f2f. I just wouldn't want to deal with the complex night phases in f2f.
"Let it be known that almost everything Boonskiies said is either hilarious or annoying." - Shinobi

Yes, I'm
Flavor Leaf
. That's my main; I just mod on
Boonskiies
.
User avatar
Boonskiies
Boonskiies
That's Not All, Folks!
User avatar
User avatar
Boonskiies
That's Not All, Folks!
That's Not All, Folks!
Posts: 17939
Joined: June 11, 2014
Location: SF

Post Post #17 (ISO) » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:19 pm

Post by Boonskiies »

I actually really like Silencer in F2F, though, as you can just act stuff out and basically play charades with it.
"Let it be known that almost everything Boonskiies said is either hilarious or annoying." - Shinobi

Yes, I'm
Flavor Leaf
. That's my main; I just mod on
Boonskiies
.
Post Reply

Return to “Open Setup Discussion”