Scum's best response to a town massclaim is to strongman-kill the cop N1, roleblock the Universal Backup=Cop N2 (while regular-killing the JK), and regular-kill the Universal Backup=Cop N3. This prevents the town making any further uses of their power roles, and 4 Innocent Child : 6 Vanilla Townie : 3 Mafia Goon is close to balanced (although not fun to play).
I'm pretty sure this is broken for town by hypoclaim, though (i.e. each player states a strong townread on D1, for most townies it's just a genuine read, but the Cop uses this to breadcrumb their N0 result in a way that everyone can unambiguously determine what it was), together with claiming at L-1. Town can make almost as efficient as use of claim-to-confirm as if they'd massclaimed, whereas scum have much less information on how to stop the town power roles getting even confirmations.
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:10 pm
by Lycanfire
This seems so broken in favor of town that I was coming up with the most efficient way to do it. I was thinking the cop should claim regardless day 1, and that drawing out the strongman on the IC cop is worthwhile. If strongman is used, town plays standard thereafter. If the inno is killed I was considering proceeding with a day 2 mass claim.
Hypoclaim averts this scenario, but I'm not exactly sure if that's better either.
Frankly, for scum to have any chance strongman should bypass the backup.
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:22 am
by Gamma Emerald
N0 random innos are a MU thing, they're probably not going to be a thing here
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:00 am
by acidphoenix
this would still be brokenly townsided if you removed the backup or the jailkeeper 100%
not sure about removing the cop but i suspect it, again, would be
Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:04 pm
by mhsmith0
Eh, MS towns do way worse than MU towns, so
10 v3
n0 cop
9 vts
vs 3 goons
is probably gonna be wolfsided here (consensus is it's reasonably close to balanced on MU), so probably you can get away with cop + backup or cop + jailkeeper against some scum power.
I do agree about it being kind of ugly though
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:01 pm
by Mathdino
In post 2, callforjudgement wrote:Scum's best response to a town massclaim is to strongman-kill the cop N1, roleblock the Universal Backup=Cop N2 (while regular-killing the JK), and regular-kill the Universal Backup=Cop N3. This prevents the town making any further uses of their power roles, and 4 Innocent Child : 6 Vanilla Townie : 3 Mafia Goon is close to balanced (although not fun to play).
I'm pretty sure this is broken for town by hypoclaim, though (i.e. each player states a strong townread on D1, for most townies it's just a genuine read, but the Cop uses this to breadcrumb their N0 result in a way that everyone can unambiguously determine what it was), together with claiming at L-1. Town can make almost as efficient as use of claim-to-confirm as if they'd massclaimed, whereas scum have much less information on how to stop the town power roles getting even confirmations.
The likelihood of this exact type of situation happening is really the issue. Hypoclaim is important. Claim if any of the 4 confirmables are run up.
I agree that it's balanced, but it's just not interesting. Feels like it'd work better closed. As an open, it basically requires certain strategies on the part of town (hypoclaim) and scum (counterclaims) and that's not really fun to play.